Colts have 4th pick (Official Discussion Thread)

[danlhart87]

Just now, J@son said:

 

Have you read the last couple pages of this thread?  Lol

I didn't see that anywhere 

 

[EastStreet]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:27 AM, John Hammonds said:

I agree.  I'm not in love with any of the top three, but I do believe that we must take one of them.  And I don't think any of them are worth the price to trade up for.  If we sit at #4, we're pretty certain to get one of them.  If they go 1-2-3, then we're going to get an excellent non-QB at #4, and potentially pick up one of the lesser QB's in the 2nd round.

I'm ok with taking any of them at #4

If it's Bryce Young, then we'll work with his ability to throw with anticipation

If it's CJ Stroud, then we'll work with his athleticism and skills

If it's Will Levis, then we'll work with his arm strength and competitiveness

But I'm not ok with trading up for any of them.

Yup. 

I have different worries with the 3 though. 

[Stephen]

We have to trade up or back if Stroud doesnt declare. Might have to settle for richardson, duggan, hall, or hooker in a trade back. Im not picking any of them at 4

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If we end up taking Richardson my biggest concern is throwing him out there to start day one and he is overwhelmed with so little football he has played.  The other 3 could play right away without being overwhelmed.

I don’t think young will be on Ballards board.

It would be a major disservice to Richardson to let him take snaps year 1. He needs 2-3 years riding the pine

 

[danlhart87]

If you combined Levis size Stroud accuracy Young poise and pocket presence and Richardson athleticism you would have a generational QB

 

Put him together like some weird Power Rangers episode 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

It would be a major disservice to Richardson to let him take snaps year 1. He needs 2-3 years riding the pine

 

That’s the issue I can’t put up with another retread next year.  Your asking players to learn another QB for only one year. Then switch again. Just no.

 

[coming on strong]

22 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

If you combined Levis size Stroud accuracy Young poise and pocket presence and Richardson athleticism you would have a generational QB

 

Put him together like some weird Power Rangers episode 

 

we could do what the redskins did in 2012  draft a QB top 5 and also draft a QB in the second round .   take levis at 4  richardson in the second round as insurance .

[Pelt]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If we end up taking Richardson my biggest concern is throwing him out there to start day one and he is overwhelmed with so little football he has played.  The other 3 could play right away without being overwhelmed.

I wouldn't assume that.

We just watched a 37 year old get overwhelmed this season.

[jonjon]

3 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

we could do what the redskins did in 2012  draft a QB top 5 and also draft a QB in the second round .   take levis at 4  richardson in the second round as insurance .

Worst idea ever. Two busts for the price of one, hard pass. 

 

And I still don't get how people are putting Levis in the same conversation as Young and Stroud. If the first two are gone when we pick and Ballard picks Levis, he should get a seriously evil punishment, like be forced to listen to rap music for 100 hrs straight. 

[jonjon]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

Here's what I expect assuming Stroud declares 

 

If Texans take Young and Colts have an option at others they go Levis 

 

If Texans choose Levis and the others are available they go Stroud 

 

If first two are gone they go Young or upset 80% of forum by trading down 

You seriously think Levis could go before Young or Stoud? LOL

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, jonjon said:

You seriously think Levis could go before Young or Stoud? LOL

Before young yes. Probably not stroud.

[Defjamz26]

Just now, jonjon said:

You seriously think Levis could go before Young or Stoud? LOL

According to Kiper. Yes

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

According to Kiper. Yes

I personally don’t hold much stock in Mel Kiper… Dude’s been spectacularly wrong more often than not. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[JColts72]

9 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

According to Kiper. Yes

To hype him up.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I will quickly lose my excitement for the draft and the possibilities if he doesn’t declare. I can’t put up with another vet waiting for Richardson to develop. I will just pray Houston wants young if that happens.

[jonjon]

23 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

According to Kiper. Yes

Kiper, another reason to laugh at that line of thinking, he's a joke 
 

Best line ever: "Who the #### is Mel Kiper?" 

[Stephen]

30 minutes ago, jonjon said:

You seriously think Levis could go before Young or Stoud? LOL

Yes especially if stroud doesnt declare lol

[EastStreet]

46 minutes ago, jonjon said:

You seriously think Levis could go before Young or Stoud? LOL

 

I have no clue who will be the top 3 QBs when is all done. But the pros are all over the place right now. 

PFF and The Draft Network for instance, have Levis has the #2 QB.

Most big boards have Young #1, but lot of chatter that he will be #2 or #3 due to height. 

IMO, the combine will be big for the top 3 guys. 

[NewColtsFan]

51 minutes ago, jonjon said:

Kiper, another reason to laugh at that line of thinking, he's a joke 
 

Best line ever: "Who the #### is Mel Kiper?" 

Kiper has been covering the draft for over 40 years.   The sound bite you high-lite is roughly 35 years old.   Kiper has the last laugh.   You can make fun of Mel’s hair, but he’s typically pretty accurate.  
 

Levis is admired by some scouts because he had the strongest arm and the best body.   Plus, while he didn’t play as well in 22 as he did in 21, the team he was surrounded by was much, much worse.   He is compared favorably to Ben Roethlisberger when BR was in college.  
 

Each of the top three QBs has strong pluses, but some minuses as well.  Young may be liked by most scouts, but it’s not unanimous.   As of today,  any of Young, Stroud or Levis could be taken first. 

[Jason_]

46 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Kiper has been covering the draft for over 40 years.   The sound bite you high-lite is roughly 35 years old.   Kiper has the last laugh.   You can make fun of Mel’s hair, but he’s typically pretty accurate.  
 

Levis is admired by some scouts because he had the strongest arm and the best body.   Plus, while he didn’t play as well in 22 as he did in 21, the team he was surrounded by was much, much worse.   He is compared favorably to Ben Roethlisberger when BR was in college.  
 

Each of the top three QBs has strong pluses, but some minuses as well.  Young may be liked by most scouts, but it’s not unanimous.   As of today,  any of Young, Stroud or Levis could be taken first. 

 

I'm curious as to your thoughts on Tanner McKee

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

I'm curious as to your thoughts on Tanner McKee

Personally, I like Davis Mills much more.  But I think he had the benefit of a much better supporting cast.
 

I think McKee is something of a dart thrower.  To me, he aims a lot and doesn’t trust what he sees.   He doesn’t strike me as a confident passer.  
 

He must be a very tough evaluation.   PFF says he’s a first round quarterback.   The four evaluators at ESPN have him somewhere around the 3rd to 5th round.   I’m more in that camp. 

 

For what it’s worth, @stitches has seen a fair amount of his tape and he liked what he saw.   McKee is also an older candidate.  I think he will be 23 or 24 as a rookie.  I believe that’s why he’s coming out early.   I wouldn’t take him before the 3rd round and would prefer the 4th but maybe I’m being too harsh.   I’ll be curious how he does at the combine and his pro day.

[danlhart87]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I will quickly lose my excitement for the draft and the possibilities if he doesn’t declare. I can’t put up with another vet waiting for Richardson to develop. I will just pray Houston wants young if that happens.

We don't know how anybody will perform so we all need to open our minds up that anybody could be chosen.

 

We all could for months critique every detail but in the end who knows what kind of success they have.

 

Since every QB is flawed whoever Colts take coaching will be most important in their overall development. 

[craigerb]

n 1/12/2023 at 9:20 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

My dream scenario is we hire Harbaugh and draft Young.

Me: My two nightmares.

Harbaugh might be okay for college students but not professional athletes. Young is too small.
 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Son of a gun, I thought CJ had already declared?!?     Haven’t seen anything to suggest he wouldn’t come out.   I’m kinda surprised.  
 

I don’t think you’ll have to wait too much longer.  

[stitches]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Personally, I like Davis Mills much more.  But I think he had the benefit of a much better supporting cast.
 

I think McKee is something of a dart thrower.  To me, he aims a lot and doesn’t trust what he sees.   He doesn’t strike me as a confident passer.  
 

He must be a very tough evaluation.   PFF says he’s a first round quarterback.   The four evaluators at ESPN have him somewhere around the 3rd to 5th round.   I’m more in that camp. 

 

For what it’s worth, @stitches has seen a fair amount of his tape and he liked what he saw.   McKee is also an older candidate.  I think he will be 23 or 24 as a rookie.  I believe that’s why he’s coming out early.   I wouldn’t take him before the 3rd round and would prefer the 4th but maybe I’m being too harsh.   I’ll be curious how he does at the combine and his pro day.

I like him but I don't love him. There is a distinct lack of talent around him. I don't know what happened with Stanford, they used to have stout OL, a some weapons here and there, one or two NFL-type TEs on a roster... Now there is nothing that's working for McKee. 

 

He has NFL frame and size(probably the best in this class). He has one of the strongest arms in this class too. He has good accuracy on short to intermediate routes, but there are some inconsistencies. And he does have arm talent, not just arm strength - he can throw with velocity or touch and he can vary he arm angle when needed.

 

My main problem with him is... he will need to win from the pocket. Very limited mobility. Pretty much non-existant off-schedule playmaking... which means... if he has this bad of OL play and this poor of a supporting cast, things will always look like they did this year - he will strugle and succumb to pressure and sacks simply because he has no counter. He needs either WRs who get open quick or OL that can protect him... I don't think this is a recipe for success in the current NFL. Sure, he may succeed in a perfect situation(example - lets say somehow he ends up on the 49ers and he's given the chance to play...he might have some success), but IMO in today's NFL you cannot rely on having that type of situation - protection, weapons, expert play designer and caller like Shannahan. 

 

This is why, even though I like him, in the general scheme of things I might actually be closer to your draft range for him than PFF's(about late 2nd-3d round?).

[SONAR]

I cant beleive everyone so caught up in the qb's size  2 of the best qbs I ever saw play qb joe montana and steve young was only 2 inches taller then bryce young the man can ball when its gametime ,smart accurate and can run when need to. The thing that really matters is he makes right decisions  at right time and he has heart for the  game ( the will to win the game no matter what) ANYWAY JUST MY THOUGHT IRSAY HAS FINAL SAY GOT TO RESPECT HIS DECISION

[stitches]

 

 

Fo whatever it's worth... Lance Zierlein is friends with Ballard. By his words "What's crazy is, the guy who is my mentor in scouting(Ballard), who hates small players would move up for the guy who would be the smallest QB in the league in 3 decades"

[#12.]

 

[Myles]

7 hours ago, jonjon said:

Kiper, another reason to laugh at that line of thinking, he's a joke 
 

Best line ever: "Who the #### is Mel Kiper?" 

 

I also, am not a follower of Kipers advice.   He is in with the football people and they know the game and players well, but do your own research because their opinions can be very flawed. 

 

The Manziel hype was real despite the fact he lacked ideal size, arm strength, and pocket presence, to say nothing of his attitude. Kiper, however, bought in to Manziel, asserting that he should be picked No. 1 overall 

 

 Akili Smith, Kiper declared the former Oregon quarterback would be a "great NFL player"

 

The 1998 NFL Draft was a top-heavy class that featured two players who were amongst the best to ever play their respective position in Charles Woodson and Peyton Manning. However, neither player was ranked as the top overall player on Kiper's draft board, as that distinction belonged to Florida State pass-rusher Andre Wadsworth, who he compared to Bruce Smith and claimed was as close to a sure thing as one could find.

 

The Cardinals bought into that notion, as they grabbed the physically gifted defensive end with the third pick and made him the first non-quarterback selected. If they had a do-over, they certainly would have picked Woodson, as Wadsworth never lived up to expectations and only recorded 8.5 career sacks in three seasons.

 

 

As crazy as it sounds, JaMarcus Russell was lauded as a generational quarterback prospect ahead of the 2007 NFL Draft and got selected by the Raiders with the top pick in the class. Mel Kiper was especially high on the talented LSU product, as he compared him to John Elway in his pre-draft evaluation and said he could be one of the league's best quarterbacks within three years.

 

Rarely does a player from Wake Forest find himself in the conversation to be the top pick in the draft, but linebacker Aaron Curry was the exception to that rule, as he was considered one of the best players in the 2009 NFL Draft. Kiper bought into the hype and crowned the versatile 'backer as the best player and safest prospect in the class.

 

Speaking of takes that Kiper wishes he could have back, the draft expert was so confident in Syracuse wideout Mike Williams in 2005 that he claimed the receiver would be in the Hall of Fame after the Lions selected him with the 10th pick.

 

Jimmy Clausen was the man that was supposed to end the great Mel Kiper's career. The draft expert was confident enough in Clausen to proclaim that he would retire if the Notre Dame product (who was ranked fourth on his big board) was not a successful quarterback after eight seasons.

 

Ki-Jana Carter picked a great time to have one of the most dominant games of his life, as his 156-yard, three-touchdown performance in the 1995 Rose Bowl set the stage for the Bengals to select him first overall (in a trade-up) in that year's draft. The physically gifted running back may have been highly regarded by everyone in the draft community, but nobody was more bullish on him than Mel Kiper, who declared he could be the next Bo Jackson.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Ballard doesn't strike me as someone to panic if Stroud stays at OSU another year. That notion is more of a fan thing. If he was going to get fired, Irsay would have done it this year. This reload or rebuild is going to take more than one offseason. In my mind, if the QB they have targeted is there, they pick him. They're not going to reach for one they aren't sold on tho. Take BPA or trade back multiple times if needed, take one of the project QB's. Start Sam next year and who knows with multiple # 1's might get Marv jr. and a perennial QB.

[JColts72]

1 hour ago, SOMDColtsfan said:

Ballard doesn't strike me as someone to panic if Stroud stays at OSU another year. That notion is more of a fan thing. If he was going to get fired, Irsay would have done it this year. This reload or rebuild is going to take more than one offseason. In my mind, if the QB they have targeted is there, they pick him. They're not going to reach for one they aren't sold on tho. Take BPA or trade back multiple times if needed, take one of the project QB's. Start Sam next year and who knows with multiple # 1's might get Marv jr. and a perennial QB.

No way to start Sam. For what? Another horrible season. Have to take advantage of the draft position.

[SONAR]

iI know ballard doesnt want small but wow 2 inches ,doesnt matter irsay will make the call he owns the team atleast last i heard he makes the final call not flip a coin ballard.

[Coltsbluefan]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

Fo whatever it's worth... Lance Zierlein is friends with Ballard. By his words "What's crazy is, the guy who is my mentor in scouting(Ballard), who hates small players would move up for the guy who would be the smallest QB in the league in 3 decades"

This is one reason why I don’t like Ballard,why does he not like small players?Theirs a ton of great small players in the NFL now and in the HOF too,including our own Marvin Harrison.He’s got to change his approach or we will lose out on a lot of great players IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

24 minutes ago, Coltsbluefan said:

This is one reason why I don’t like Ballard,why does he not like small players?Theirs a ton of great small players in the NFL now and in the HOF too,including our own Marvin Harrison.He’s got to change his approach or we will lose out on a lot of great players IMO.

I think with him he will pick a player without the traits he wants if they have something special. I agree we need more players that are just good at football. College production is a pretty good indicator of that. For me personally young scares the heck out of me with his build. Not really his height but is stature.

[SOMDColtsfan]

2 hours ago, JColts72 said:

No way to start Sam. For what? Another horrible season. Have to take advantage of the draft position.

Draft a QB with a top 5 pick just to draft a QB. For what? Every single 1 of them have question marks.    

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Coltsbluefan said:

This is one reason why I don’t like Ballard,why does he not like small players?Theirs a ton of great small players in the NFL now and in the HOF too,including our own Marvin Harrison.He’s got to change his approach or we will lose out on a lot of great players IMO.

Because they are small.  Marvin Harrison is not a quarterback.  Size is an advantage when it comes to having a long career at quarterback.  It just is.

[richard pallo]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

Fo whatever it's worth... Lance Zierlein is friends with Ballard. By his words "What's crazy is, the guy who is my mentor in scouting(Ballard), who hates small players would move up for the guy who would be the smallest QB in the league in 3 decades"

I will believe it when I see it.

[DaColts85]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

I will believe it when I see it.

I will agree with Lance and say I don’t see Ballard going for a small Young type guy but rather hope he goes #1 to another team. Ballard wants that bigger body (Levis or Richardson) that are also very athletic. These guys he has scouted multiple games thru last season. 

[Coltsbluefan]

27 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Because they are small.  Marvin Harrison is not a quarterback.  Size is an advantage when it comes to having a long career at quarterback.  It just is.

Ballard would have never drafted Marvin with the 16th pick back in 1996 because he’s to small,that logic has got to change and I don’t see Ballard changing it.