2022: Colts at Raiders Postgame Thoughts (merge)

[Two_pound]

The biggest difference in yesterdays game was the blocking on both pass plays and running plays. A line that didn't block anyone through the first 9 games was almost flawless yesterday. And don't say the raiders defense isn't good, the texans jags, commanders, and kc lines aren't top notch either and we didn't block anyone in those games.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

What DougDew doesn't get is the fact that 'running up the gut" yesterday was putting the offense in good situations. Frank R. continued to pound the ball even when we were getting stuffed on the great majority of those runs. I also didn't see any "smallish " RB's running the ball on 3rd or 4th and 1. Frazier did a nice job yesterday . Only time will tell if he is a talented play caller. 

 

Yup.

But Doug knows. He defended Frank for a long time. He's trying to spin while retreating lol. 

 

Even Bowen, who was a Reich apologist for years... wrote this.... (all cuts are quotes)

• Better Coached Team: The Colts won this game largely because they were the better coached team.
• Jeff Saturday’s bunch was more disciplined
• Jeff Saturday’s Colts also achieved some things the team had not really sniffed this season
• They had a halftime lead for the first time since Christmas.
• They had a lead entering the 4th quarter for the first time this season
• good time management late in the first half, getting the challenge flag out on time for a key overturn, and thriving in the leader/CEO type role that had been missing in Indy
• Parks Frazier Puts Offense In Winning Position: Honestly, of the Jeff Saturday/Parks Frazier/Matt Ryan trio, I was most impressed with the 30-year old play caller.
• Frazier simplified the play book, committed to helping out more in pass protection, got Matt Ryan to deliver the ball in a quicker rhythm (Doug disagrees lol)
• The Colts eclipsed the 20-point mark for just the second time this season
• his (Parks) offense was steady throughout, and didn’t flinch when game pressure rose.
• Ryan was hit one time in 28 pass attempts, with the Colts clearly committed to keeping more guys in for protection. (unlike Riech)
• with Braden Smith crashing down to open up a massive hole (OL doesn't crash much in pure zone lol)

[bluebombers87]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yup.

But Doug knows. He defended Frank for a long time. He's trying to spin while retreating lol. 

 

Even Bowen, who was a Reich apologist for years... wrote this.... (all cuts are quotes)

• Better Coached Team: The Colts won this game largely because they were the better coached team.
• Jeff Saturday’s bunch was more disciplined
• Jeff Saturday’s Colts also achieved some things the team had not really sniffed this season
• They had a halftime lead for the first time since Christmas.
• They had a lead entering the 4th quarter for the first time this season
• good time management late in the first half, getting the challenge flag out on time for a key overturn, and thriving in the leader/CEO type role that had been missing in Indy
• Parks Frazier Puts Offense In Winning Position: Honestly, of the Jeff Saturday/Parks Frazier/Matt Ryan trio, I was most impressed with the 30-year old play caller.
• Frazier simplified the play book, committed to helping out more in pass protection, got Matt Ryan to deliver the ball in a quicker rhythm (Doug disagrees lol)
• The Colts eclipsed the 20-point mark for just the second time this season
• his (Parks) offense was steady throughout, and didn’t flinch when game pressure rose.
• Ryan was hit one time in 28 pass attempts, with the Colts clearly committed to keeping more guys in for protection. (unlike Riech)
• with Braden Smith crashing down to open up a massive hole (OL doesn't crash much in pure zone lol)

Wait so we like the media now?

 

Or just the ones that say the things we like?

 

Or is he one of the “good ones”?

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, I get that the runs up the gut worked.  The difference isn't the play...the difference is the execution.  Up the gut is the same play.  So since Frank called runs when the runs weren't working, you think the problem was too much balanced play calling...should have called more passes?  You need to attend one of @EastStreet's forum sermons on balanced play calling...and how we used to not have any. 

 

 

Tell me why the oline played better in both passing and running plays.   Because the play calling had the D off balance?  Nope.

 

And we got rid of the small running backs...you watch the roster?   So the fact that we won't be running Hines up the gut is because we don't actually have Hines anymore.  We now have the opportunity to actually run RBs who are better at running with the football than Hines. 

on the bold, it is both. Both difference in the play and execution. And other things.... 

 

Here's why the oline played better... 

It was obvious we used tempo (several have wrote about this, if you didn't see obvious tempo)

It was obvious we used more power (did you see Ryan's sneak, instead some silly shotgun handoff with zone)

It was obvious we kept protectors back to help with pass pro... 

 

Heck, rewatch the game... or simply read local writers (Frank apologist Bowen's article this week lol).. 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

lol. I've seen many games over the last 5 years that do not look balanced....

I can too.  Behind by 20-3.  Behind by 24-0.  In a shoot out with Brady.  There are others, with similar circumstances. 

 

Most games, nah, almost all are evenly split 50/50 on first and second downs between run/pass.

[dw49]

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, I get that the runs up the gut worked.  The difference isn't the play...the difference is the execution.  Up the gut is the same play.  So since Frank called runs when the runs weren't working, you think the problem was too much balanced play calling...should have called more passes?  You need to attend one of @EastStreet's forum sermons on balanced play calling...and how we used to not have any. 

 

 

Tell me why the oline played better in both passing and running plays.   Because the play calling had the D off balance?  Nope.

 

And we got rid of the small running backs...you watch the roster?   So the fact that we won't be running Hines up the gut is because we don't actually have Hines anymore.  We now have the opportunity to actually run RBs who are better at running with the football than Hines. 

 

 

I never said the "PROBLEM" was the play calling . What I said was Frank was not IMO a good play caller . Neither did I annoit Frazier as the savior. The problem was a combination of Ballard missing on the O line , players underperforming and bad coaching. Your putting words into my posts. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Wait so we like the media now?

 

Or just the ones that say the things we like?

 

Or is he one of the “good ones”?

I'm using a writer that was a Frank apologist for years. Who changed his tune... 

I bashed him plenty for his apologizing. And will continue to bash when he is an apologist... 

But do you disagree with what he wrote?

[bluebombers87]

Just now, EastStreet said:

I'm using a writer that was a Frank apologist for years. Who changed his tune... 

I bashed him plenty for his apologizing. And will continue to bash when he is an apologist... 

But do you disagree with what he wrote?

I honestly couldn’t care. Just found it funny that you and others have spent the past week absolutely trashing media and here you are using them as an appeal to authority. Authority you’ve undermined the past several days.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I can too.  Behind by 20-3.  Behind by 24-0.  In a shoot out with Brady.  There are others, with similar circumstances. 

 

Most games, nah, almost all are evenly split 50/50 on first and second downs between run/pass.

 

I can provide with you games where we were not way behind... would you like that?

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

I honestly couldn’t care. Just found it funny that you and others have spent the past week absolutely trashing media and here you are using them as an appeal to authority. Authority you’ve undermined the past several days.

I will bash media for bad takes. 

I bashed Bowen for years.

The point, Bowen, who was a Frank apologist (like Doug), has now changed his tune...

 

Understand....?

 

I'm not in love with Bowen, I'm making a sarcastic point... 

[bluebombers87]

Just now, EastStreet said:

I will bash media for bad takes. 

I bashed Bowen for years.

The point, Bowen, who was a Frank apologist (like Doug), has now changed his tune...

 

Understand....?

 

I'm not in love with Bowen, I'm making a sarcastic point... 

So what if anyone here is a Frank apologist? Why do you get so worked up and resort to calling someone an apologist when someone dares offer an opinion that is contrary? Just let it go man. Seriously it’s getting weird how much you dislike Frank. It’s a game. Let it go.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

And other things.... 

LOL.  Yes, I know there are other factors that are not about play calling.   You've been talking nonstop about them. 

 

If you want to have that discussion, fine, have it with someone else.  I'm not obsessing over Frank like you are and have to have everything funnel back to some narrative. 

 

I was discussing the narrative that the play calling was different....which it wasn't.  And the past narrative that it was imbalanced, which it wasn't as a matter of normal situations.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I never said the "PROBLEM" was the play calling . What I said was Frank was not IMO a good play caller . Neither did I annoit Frazier as the savior. The problem was a combination of Ballard missing on the O line , players underperforming and bad coaching. Your putting words into my posts. 

Right, because, the problem is NEVER the play calling...outside of few obvious bad plays in bad situations...but not as a matter of a game long issue.   

 

LARams offense is certainly stinking it up this year.  They must have gotten a different play caller.

 

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

So what if anyone here is a Frank apologist? Why do you get so worked up and resort to calling someone an apologist when someone dares offer an opinion that is contrary? Just let it go man. Seriously it’s getting weird how much you dislike Frank. It’s a game. Let it go.

 

lol.. if you like Frank, great.. 

Frank was a bad play caller. And most agree. If you disagree, great. 

Why do you care, or jump into the debate. Why are you worked up?

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

LOL.  Yes, I know there are other factors that are not about play calling.   You've been talking nonstop about them. 

 

If you want to have that discussion, fine, have it with someone else.  I'm not obsessing over Frank like you are and have to have everything funnel back to some narrative. 

 

I was discussing the narrative that the play calling was different....which it wasn't.  And the past narrative that it was imbalanced, which it wasn't as a matter of normal situations.

 

Those factors are included with play calling.

 

When you call a pass, and keep guys to protect, it's part of the play call.

When you call a pass with tempo, it's part of the play call.

When you call a power angle run, that's part of the play call... 

 

Do you not get that? The part of the play call. And it's different. 

[EastStreet]

 

@DougDew

hey, check out Baldi's Breakdown...

 

you see more power??? lol..

It's different vs Frank.... do you recognize the obvious power/angle... 

that's part of the play call, and is different.... 

 

 

[bluebombers87]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

lol.. if you like Frank, great.. 

Frank was a bad play caller. And most agree. If you disagree, great. 

Why do you care, or jump into the debate. Why are you worked up?

I honestly don’t care.

 

But seriously man, let it go. Before it gets sad.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Those factors are included with play calling.

 

When you call a pass, and keep guys to protect, it's part of the play call.

When you call a pass with tempo, it's part of the play call.

When you call a power angle run, that's part of the play call... 

 

Do you not get that? The part of the play call. And it's different. 

Well, golly East, it was never mentioned as being part of the play calling before....until about 3 weeks ago.  LOL.  

 

Why didn't you talk about it all last year, or the first 5 games, when you were lecturing us with your never-ending sermons  about  "up the gut", "shallow passes" and "imbalance" being the root of all problems.

  

[EastStreet]

Just now, DougDew said:

Well, golly East, it was never mentioned as being part of the play calling before....until about 3 weeks ago.  LOL.  

 

Why didn't you talk about it all last year, or the first 5 games, when you were lecturing us with your never-ending sermons  about  "up the gut", "shallow passes" and "imbalance" being the root of all problems.

  

 

I've talked about Strausser not going power enough since last year... I've been critical about zone... for a long time.. 

And several of us talked us the need to go tempo in the preseason...

 

But nice try loll.. golly.. 

[dw49]

33 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Right, because, the problem is NEVER the play calling...outside of few obvious bad plays in bad situations...but not as a matter of a game long issue.   

 

LARams offense is certainly stinking it up this year.  They must have gotten a different play caller.

 

 

Good to see you agree with me.

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, Two_pound said:

The biggest difference in yesterdays game was the blocking on both pass plays and running plays. A line that didn't block anyone through the first 9 games was almost flawless yesterday. And don't say the raiders defense isn't good, the texans jags, commanders, and kc lines aren't top notch either and we didn't block anyone in those games.

The Jags, Commanders, and KC all have much better lines than the Raiders.

 

Still regardless the overall point of the line played well yesterday regardless of who it was against still stands.  

[John Waylon]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Well, since you're here now without really making a contribution, B-head, have you logged every play of every game of the season?  And do you have an opinion about balanced play calling, up the middle running, or shallow passes like the Preacher has?

Will it make you feel better if I say no? Will that make you feel like you have big boy fanballs? 
 

I’m really just trying to humor you and end this unwanted interaction over something you felt a need to identify with.

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

While I haven't read all of this thread I just wanted to give some kudos to Parks Frazier. He called a great game considering it was his first. It helped when the Oline actually done a good job.  

Maybe Jeff's enthusiasm rubbed off on the whole team including all the coaches and assistants?

 

[krunk]

Ì bet we will start seeing a few plays and formations from the Peyton Era sprinkled in to the offense with Jeff and Reggie putting their heads together. I know Peyton is somewhere advising them. I was trying to see if i saw them running more 3 Wr sets vs the Raiders. Looked to me like it was a lot of 3Wr and 4Wr looks.

[Zoltan]

6 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

1 weak one. OK

If you want to believe that one of the most respected insiders is a weak reference.  I would say that your head is in the sand and I could have a video of Irsay saying it and you probably still wouldn’t believe it.

[Nickster]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

Yes, I get that the runs up the gut worked.  The difference isn't the play...the difference is the execution.  Up the gut is the same play.  So since Frank called runs when the runs weren't working, you think the problem was too much balanced play calling...should have called more passes?  You need to attend one of @EastStreet's forum sermons on balanced play calling...and how we used to not have any. 

 

 

Tell me why the oline played better in both passing and running plays.   Because the play calling had the D off balance?  Nope.

 

And we got rid of the small running backs...you watch the roster?   So the fact that we won't be running Hines up the gut is because we don't actually have Hines anymore.  We now have the opportunity to actually run RBs who are better at running with the football than Hines. 

I noticed that  that Matt Pryor only came in on xtra points.

[Nickster]

7 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

@DougDew

hey, check out Baldi's Breakdown...

 

you see more power??? lol..

It's different vs Frank.... do you recognize the obvious power/angle... 

that's part of the play call, and is different.... 

 

 

Jesus East.  Everyone of those plays were zone blocking lol

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

I've talked about Strausser not going power enough since last year... I've been critical about zone... for a long time.. 

And several of us talked us the need to go tempo in the preseason...

 

But nice try loll.. golly.. 

Nah, compared to how much you pounded your fists about unbalanced run/pass ratios, up the gut vs around the edge running, and most prominently, shallow passing.....your mention of anything else was simply in passing.  As if to throw anything on a wall to see if it stuck later....then pretend you knew it all along.

 

That's not the type of process we readers need to have confidence in our self proclaimed internet lecturers (that we don't ask for in the first place).  We need lecturers that when they pound their fists....wrongly.....about unbalanced play calling, up the gut running, shallow passing...that they then don't change their story to where a bunch of stuff they said in passing was the cause.  We might realize they were wrong in about 200 posts last year.  How depressing for some.

 

[BlueShoe]

15 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yeah I never once said his opinion was fact. Not sure how you drew that inference. Facts not feelings. You can’t take what I said and say “this is what you’re saying even though it’s not what you actually said”. I simply mentioned him because I know he said something similar in another post and I didn’t want to come off as plagiarizing him. 

 

No the message I was referring to was that just about every analyst was referring to. Which was that the hiring of Saturday was a slap in the face to a lot of coaches and it was a boneheaded and impulsive move by Jim Irsay. That sentiment was shared by a large number of people in the league, both publicly and privately. A lot of fans (especially some of the older ones) don’t seem to like the reports around the Colts because they are negative.

 

Incorrect. I said that the process by which Saturday was hired was a bad move. Nothing will change my mind because even if the Colts were to make the playoffs, it doesn’t bypass the fact that he skipped over coaches on his own staff and a vast amount of people who were way more qualified for the job. It would be like surrounding a Christmas tree with stolen gifts. The ends do not justify the means.

 

That is your opinion on the media. But that is not always true of sports media. When it comes to the media who report on celebrities then yes, a lot of it is click bait to generate revenue. But the goal of sports journalists is to report the facts and offer glimpses into the behind the scenes issues that fans don’t get to see and that a lot of players wan’t people to be aware of. And the NFL teams do need the media. The media keeps people talking about the the team and brings in viewers and new fans. Odell doesn’t have one of the best selling jerseys of 2014 if the media doesn’t play that catch over and over. The media plays a huge role in the NFL hence why kids in college have to learn media training and why there is a press conference after every game. There’s a reason why certain players are required to talk to the media a certain number of times (reminder that Marshawn Lynch got fined for not speaking to the media). 

Just remember that 9 out of 10 doctors used to prefer smoking Marlboro. 
 

You completely attempted to use Superman’s point of view, to support your argument. I am not 100% sure what all of Superman’s point of view is yet. I’ve just recently had a one response back and forth with him on this subject, in another thread, in which he agreed with most of what I said. 
 

From what I can tell, you are siding with the media on the Jeff Saturday subject and you think the fans are being thin skinned. Is that correct? I’m just trying to find a baseline here with you. 

[richard pallo]

7 hours ago, krunk said:

Ì bet we will start seeing a few plays and formations from the Peyton Era sprinkled in to the offense with Jeff and Reggie putting their heads together. I know Peyton is somewhere advising them. I was trying to see if i saw them running more 3 Wr sets vs the Raiders. Looked to me like it was a lot of 3Wr and 4Wr looks.

I noticed they brought Pinter in 5 times as an extra offensive lineman too.  Jumbo lineup starting to show itself?

[Fluke_33]

8 hours ago, krunk said:

Ì bet we will start seeing a few plays and formations from the Peyton Era sprinkled in to the offense with Jeff and Reggie putting their heads together. I know Peyton is somewhere advising them. I was trying to see if i saw them running more 3 Wr sets vs the Raiders. Looked to me like it was a lot of 3Wr and 4Wr looks.

What was the manning to edge play called where manning had to run out to the side to hand off the ball, a sprint run or something?

 

Can Ryan do that i wonder.  i loved that play but manning said it was tough on him because he wasn't fast enough.

[Fluke_33]

I've been seeing rumors that milanovich was offered the play calling duties but declined and it was offered to parks.

 

I hope the local media will ask if that rumor is true at the next press conference.

[buccolts]

13 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

What was the manning to edge play called where manning had to run out to the side to hand off the ball, a sprint run or something?

 

Can Ryan do that i wonder.  i loved that play but manning said it was tough on him because he wasn't fast enough.

Stretch

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

What was the manning to edge play called where manning had to run out to the side to hand off the ball, a sprint run or something?

 

Can Ryan do that i wonder.  i loved that play but manning said it was tough on him because he wasn't fast enough.

Stretch play

[bluebombers87]

42 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

What was the manning to edge play called where manning had to run out to the side to hand off the ball, a sprint run or something?

 

Can Ryan do that i wonder.  i loved that play but manning said it was tough on him because he wasn't fast enough.

Edge had a 4.38 40 out of college. Taylor has a 4.39. At this point in Ryan’s career I’d say it would be a struggle unless Taylor delays getting up to speed.

[chad72]

8 hours ago, krunk said:

Ì bet we will start seeing a few plays and formations from the Peyton Era sprinkled in to the offense with Jeff and Reggie putting their heads together. I know Peyton is somewhere advising them. I was trying to see if i saw them running more 3 Wr sets vs the Raiders. Looked to me like it was a lot of 3Wr and 4Wr looks.

 

I agree. If they watched the Commanders film, they are going with 12 personnel with 2 TEs all day on Sunday vs the Eagles. Have to run it 40 times, dominate TOP and throw it less than 30 times to beat the Eagles and hope to get a few turnovers on D without any on O. Texans laid out a blueprint once Jordan Davis went down, Commanders built on that blue print but were helped with some Eagles turnovers too.

 

Still have to play a mistake free high level game to beat them because relying on an opponent to make mistakes is not a true recipe for a win. If they do, great but we need to hold our end.

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Edge had a 4.38 40 out of college. Taylor has a 4.39. At this point in Ryan’s career I’d say it would be a struggle unless Taylor delays getting up to speed.

 

They couldn't run the stretch with Peyton in 2015, so Kubiak went more to "I" formations.

[Fluke_33]

1 hour ago, buccolts said:

Stretch

 

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Stretch play

 

59 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Edge had a 4.38 40 out of college. Taylor has a 4.39. At this point in Ryan’s career I’d say it would be a struggle unless Taylor delays getting up to speed.

Thank you, it was driving me crazy to not remember it.   and i agree that Ryan probably couldn't do it either.  A young manning barely made it to the Edge (the player and the position on the field!)

[#12.]

58 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I agree. If they watched the Commanders film, they are going with 12 personnel with 2 TEs all day on Sunday vs the Eagles. Have to run it 40 times, dominate TOP and throw it less than 30 times to beat the Eagles and hope to get a few turnovers on D without any on O. Texans laid out a blueprint once Jordan Davis went down, Commanders built on that blue print but were helped with some Eagles turnovers too.

 

Still have to play a mistake free high level game to beat them because relying on an opponent to make mistakes is not a true recipe for a win. If they do, great but we need to hold our end.

 

We usually play pretty well against that type of QB.  If there's an improvisational element to it it, we do pretty well.  It's the quick, super efficient West Coast stuff that eats us alive.  Not sure we've stopped it once in 25 years.

[Solid84]

2 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

I've been seeing rumors that milanovich was offered the play calling duties but declined and it was offered to parks.

 

I hope the local media will ask if that rumor is true at the next press conference.

There was a comment on this in an article saying he turned it down, because the Colts wouldn’t redo his contract.