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Did we get fleeced by the Eagles? (Draft Picks)


Nesjan3
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Did we get fleeced by the Eagles? (Draft Picks)  

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  1. 1. Did we get fleeced by the Eagles? (Draft Picks)

    • yes
      44
    • No
      12
    • To be determined
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20 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

1st and a 3rd IMO is looking like robbery at this point. Not sure we could flip Wentz now for more than a 6th if we tried. Thoughts.

With the money he gets next season and his play this year, we would have to do a Osweiler kind of trade, that some other team is willing to take him. 

But we do not have the draft ammo to do smth like that. So our best bet is to roll Wentz one more year and give Frank the chance to work with a qb for more than one year. 

If it doesn't get any better during the next season, we can still bench him or whatever.

 

But back to topic: Right now it looks like we're on the short end of the deal. 

But real evaluation can only be made next year at this point I think. 

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I picked tbd.  1st and a 3rd is about right for a middle of the pack starter (15-20th). If he is retained and improves then it isn’t a bad deal.  If he is beaten out next year or plays like he did the last two games then we got fleeced 

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I think the eagles got what they could. Not gonna sit here and act like the eagles were just so far ahead of us and fleeced us like masterminds. The same organization who imploded over a 1 year period. Just no. 

 

They got what they could from a team in dire need of a starting QB. 

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Not really. Teams trade picks all the time nowadays. It's the cost of doing business.

 

It seems like a lot to some older fans 40+ because there was a time when trading a 1st was a HUGE deal. Not so much anymore. Guys like an old Stafford or old Matt Ryan will get you a 1st.

 

If we get at worst a 2 year starter, it's not really terrible for a 1&3.

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14 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

27TDs, 7 INTs and top 12 in QBR and Rating. Not even close to robbery. 3 weeks ago we were dark horse SB contenders and now we were robbed?  This season is a team failure and everyone from Wentz to the coaches to the kickers need to play better. We paid fair market value for a shot at a franchise QB. Wentz did not fail us anymore than other position groups and coaches did. 

lol I think theres a little more to the QB position than td/int and qbr. 

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13 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yes, said so at the time. Feel even worse about it now.  But it was somewhat understandable. 

I think a large majority of people including Ballard and Irsay didn't want him. Frank was the catalyst.

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9 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

I think a large majority of people including Ballard and Irsay didn't want him. Frank was the catalyst.

I will not give Ballard that excuse. If he didn't want him he shouldn't have traded for him. Whatever role Frank played in it, Ballard on his own accord decided to give that compensation and traded for him and then sold the trade to the fanbase. 

 

BTW I didn't mind taking a flyer on Wentz at the time. But sending 1st and 3d round picks is not taking a flyer. This is serious investement. You have to be pretty convinced he has a good chance to be your franchise QB in order to give that compensation for him. I think at the time I said a 3d is the maximum I would give for Wentz to see if he can be rahabilitated. 

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34 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

I think the eagles got what they could. Not gonna sit here and act like the eagles were just so far ahead of us and fleeced us like masterminds. The same organization who imploded over a 1 year period. Just no. 

 

They got what they could from a team in dire need of a starting QB. 

Imploded , they’re playing today and we’re sitting on the couch. 

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5 minutes ago, stitches said:

I will not give Ballard that excuse. If he didn't want him he shouldn't have traded for him. Whatever role Frank played in it, Ballard on his own accord decided to give that compensation and traded for him and then sold the trade to the fanbase. 

 

BTW I didn't mind taking a flyer on Wentz at the time. But sending 1st and 3d round picks is not taking a flyer. This is serious investement. You have to be pretty convinced he has a good chance to be your franchise QB in order to give that compensation for him. I think at the time I said a 3d is the maximum I would give for Wentz to see if he can be rahabilitated. 

Rumor is Ballard had to many negatives about him to make the investment and Frank talked him into it. I dont have a source this is just what I heard and im sure lots of other people have heard this same thing. Im a "wheres theres smoke there is fire" guy so I tend to believe this is the case. 

 

If this did happen it is definitely on Ballard for allowing Frank to convince him to go against his better judgement.

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I don’t think so. Franchise QBs don’t grow on trees and the good ones would have cost us at least 2 first rounders and another pick. In this QB class, we wouldn’t have found someone at No.16 worth much that we wouldn’t have to be patient for another 2-3 years with JT and the OL in their prime. At worst, it’s TBD but as time goes on and if we don’t act in a knee jerk fashion with  the QB position, we will find out we will come out ahead or it will be a push, eventually.

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28 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

lol I think theres a little more to the QB position than td/int and qbr. 

Of course there is.  However I’m not making baseless claims.  Please explain with stats how it is robbery.   I think there is a little more to it than just saying it lol. 

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3 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Of course there is.  However I’m not making baseless claims.  Please explain with stats how it is robbery.   I think there is a little more to it than just saying it lol. 

Stats work for both teams. Sometimes its jimmy's and joe's not x's and o's

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4 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Stats work for both teams. Sometimes its jimmy's and joe's not x's and o's

So that’s a no lol. 
 

Right now I can agree it was a push and both sides were adequately provided. I also think Wentz could regress next year and these claims can be substantiated.  As of right now Wentz performed well enough to be brought back. Take into account injuries, WR and OL play and questionable play calling...I think he played above average. He was a top half of the league QB by far and no one else is available that is an obvious equal or upgrade. 

 

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2 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

So that’s a no lol. 
 

Right now I can agree it was a push and both sides were adequately provided. I also think Wentz could regress next year and these claims can be substantiated.  As of right now Wentz performed well enough to be brought back. Take into account injuries, WR and OL play and questionable play calling...I think he played above average. He was a top half of the league QB by far and no one else is available that is an obvious equal or upgrade. 

 

I dont need stats to see that he makes terrible decisions. Misses wide open check downs constantly. Tries left handed shovel passes. Throws into double/triple coverage. Id love to see a stat about how many dropped INT's he had. Those first 6 weeks he was throwing it right into defenders chests and they were just plain dropping them. He had 222 yards per game which is below mediocre. Without a top 10 defense, top 2 in turnovers and top 3 running game we would have been below .500 easily. This team was carried by the run game and defense. The QB play and pass protection were easily the sore spots.

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1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

27TDs, 7 INTs and top 12 in QBR and Rating. Not even close to robbery. 3 weeks ago we were dark horse SB contenders and now we were robbed?  This season is a team failure and everyone from Wentz to the coaches to the kickers need to play better. We paid fair market value for a shot at a franchise QB. Wentz did not fail us anymore than other position groups and coaches did. 

 

I agree that the failures were a team failure and not all on Wentz. Even ignoring injuries for a second I do think that the Colts need to address LT, WR, and TE regardless of who the QB is. BUT even if they improve these other areas it doesn't mean they don't have a QB problem. IMO, if I trade a 1st and a 3rd for a 29 year old QB making $20+ million a year I better be getting stability at that position. You don't need to trade a 1st, a 3rd, and pay someone $20+ million to have doubts about that position after just one year. The reason to trade valuable picks for highly paid veterans is you know what you are getting. 

 

When you have the right guy at QB that is never in question even after a game like Jacksonville. The fact that after 17 games Reich and Ballard are noncommittal to Wentz says a lot, imo. If you have questions whether or not your 29 year old QB is right for the job then it's a strong indicator that he isn't and you have a problem. 

 

I never had enthusiasm for acquiring Wentz as I just could never look past all of the criticisms of Wentz coming out of Philly. They didn't start in 2020 when his play hit rock bottom either. The things we saw with Wentz this past year (decision making, hero ball, inconsistent, etc) have been criticisms on him for a few years now. Whether people want to admit it or not Wentz was who Philly said he was and that isn't a franchise QB. 

 

There are other QBs the Colts could have acquired for far less (or no) draft picks and be in the same position as they are now.  Wentz makes some incredible throws that very few QBs can make and I think that gives some false hope of the QB he is. 

 

I get that there are other issues with this team and negatively impacted Wentz this year. Those areas do need addressed no matter who the QB is. I also get that Wentz had some good moments. So if you don't want to call it robbery that's fine but Reich/Ballard have every reason to want to make it work with Wentz. After an entire year here for them to be noncommittal to him going forward does not say good things about this trade though.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

27TDs, 7 INTs and top 12 in QBR and Rating. Not even close to robbery. 3 weeks ago we were dark horse SB contenders and now we were robbed?  This season is a team failure and everyone from Wentz to the coaches to the kickers need to play better. We paid fair market value for a shot at a franchise QB. Wentz did not fail us anymore than other position groups and coaches did. 

Worse EPA than Brisset had with us and not even in the top half of QBs in NGS’ new Passing Score. You can’t just look at his base stats and conclude he’s been good. 

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colts got fleeced on the price they  paid .   no other team put a bid in for wentz , he was the worst ranked  QB in the league last year .   i dont fault the colts for trading for him at all i was behind it  because i thought frank could fix wentz.   the problem i have is the asking price i feel like the colts could of gotten him just for a third if they waited .   they could of ran it back with rivers if they really pushed rivers to come back .

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1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

27TDs, 7 INTs and top 12 in QBR and Rating. Not even close to robbery. 3 weeks ago we were dark horse SB contenders and now we were robbed?  This season is a team failure and everyone from Wentz to the coaches to the kickers need to play better. We paid fair market value for a shot at a franchise QB. Wentz did not fail us anymore than other position groups and coaches did. 

Honestly, and with all due respect, no one cares about his numbers. He was deficient in almost every big moment this season and the narrative of his career is close to sealed unless he gets gifted a brain and football IQ for his 30th birthday.

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For all the hate Wentz gets, he had pretty darn good stats. Everyone acts like he’s the only reason this team fell apart in the last two weeks, but if I’m being fair here, Wentz doesn’t play on defense or special teams. He doesn’t play WR or TE. He doesn’t play oline. He doesn’t call plays or run the team. This collapse was on EVERYONE. Not just Wentz. With that said, yes. He should have played better, but it is what it is. 

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To be fair, the thought was if he hits those trade markers it would have been worth it.

 

As we know stats don’t tell the full story. 
 

Post Mortem hard to feel like losing a first round pick is good. 
 

I feel like we can answer that more next year. The difference being if Carson plays like trash for the first 4 games next season you have to think Ballard pulls the plug.

 

m maybe we bring foles in :funny:

 

Go Colts.

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2 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

I think the eagles got what they could. Not gonna sit here and act like the eagles were just so far ahead of us and fleeced us like masterminds. The same organization who imploded over a 1 year period. Just no. 

 

They got what they could from a team in dire need of a starting QB. 

I’m still curious what the Eagles were going to do if we didn’t offer them such a great trade. It is rumored that no other team was actually interested in Wentz. 
 

So, if we would have waited, I personally think we could have gotten him for less. 
 

If it was just a 2nd & a 3rd, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. I wonder how hard we tried to make that 2nd non-conditional

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44 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

For all the hate Wentz gets, he had pretty darn good stats. Everyone acts like he’s the only reason this team fell apart in the last two weeks, but if I’m being fair here, Wentz doesn’t play on defense or special teams. He doesn’t play WR or TE. He doesn’t play oline. He doesn’t call plays or run the team. This collapse was on EVERYONE. Not just Wentz. With that said, yes. He should have played better, but it is what it is. 

its because wentz holds onto the ball to long and has no field vision .   he makes the guys around him worse no doubt about it .  there are multiple videos on youtube of people breaking down his film of the season and guys are getting open he just doesnt go through his progression and forces throws . i thought the wrs were the main issue until i watched the breakdowns .  even through out the jags game he had players running wide open and never turns his head .

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49 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

For all the hate Wentz gets, he had pretty darn good stats. Everyone acts like he’s the only reason this team fell apart in the last two weeks, but if I’m being fair here, Wentz doesn’t play on defense or special teams. He doesn’t play WR or TE. He doesn’t play oline. He doesn’t call plays or run the team. This collapse was on EVERYONE. Not just Wentz. With that said, yes. He should have played better, but it is what it is. 

Stats are useless.  W/L really matter most.  

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3 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Stats are useless.  W/L really matter most.  

Been saying that for years in here but the stat guys will bring up this and that. All I care about is wins. Look at Peyton's stats in 2015, not good but he won the SB and that is all people remember and all I cared about because I was rooting for him to get #2.

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1 hour ago, Indyfan4life said:

Okay, settle down everyone quoting me and going on and on. Wasn’t coming to Wentz defense solely. Just stating he doesn’t deserve ALL the blame when our defense and special teams crapped the bed just like the offense did. 

Yah but defense, special teams and run game is the reason why we were even close to getting to the playoffs. Cant expect everyone but the quarterback to do all the heavy lifting. 

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30 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Yah but defense, special teams and run game is the reason why we were even close to getting to the playoffs. Cant expect everyone but the quarterback to do all the heavy lifting. 

I know. But you can’t just say “it’s Wentz fault the defense couldn’t stop anyone!”

 

That’s like blaming your dentist for the bad job your surgeon did. 

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