Colts in the market for a play making tight end per Ballard.

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, BlueCollarColts said:

The Eagles were apparently asking for a 3rd round pick so those talks went nowhere

Good to know.  I was more or less making a joke about the report but sarcasm doesn’t translate well to a forum.  

[BlueCollarColts]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Good to know.  I was more or less making a joke about the report but sarcasm doesn’t translate well to a forum.  

Ah, fair enough. I would love to add Ertz but I don't think I would part with more than a 6th or a 7th to get him. Not sure if the Eagles would actually release him.

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, BlueCollarColts said:

Ah, fair enough. I would love to add Ertz but I don't think I would part with more than a 6th or a 7th to get him. Not sure if the Eagles would actually release him.

I like him but not sure if he really fits what the Colts are looking for in a play making tightend at the point in his career.  I kinda feel like they have a younger version of him in MAC already on the roster.  However if Ballard gets him in Ballard I trust.  

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

Here's what I think CB does at 21 and 54

 

Cosmi 21

Turner 54

I’m sorry but that wouldn’t get me excited at all as a Colts fan. Who is Turner btw?

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I just want our first pick to be DE, and I hope it's at 21 or before (not in the second after a trade back).

 

I don't think any DEs this year are sure things, but I do think the first 5 have very high potential.

It's a weird year for DE. All 5 guys have high potential. My rank keeps changing as I watch more film, but here's where I'm at now.

 

1. Rousseau - probably the best fit for our scheme. The opt out concerns me, but not as much as the potential scheme reliant stats. 15.5 sacks in 2019 before he opted out of 2020. That's pretty crazy, and it wasn't sporadic. IMO, the most well rounded guy taking into account production, size, etc.
2. Oweh - just a freak. Rumored 4.3s forty time at 6-5 and 255. Oh mercy. 6.5 TFLs but no sacks in 7 games. Still raw and only a one year starter. Will probably take a few years.
3. Paye - only 2 sacks in 2020, both vs lowly MN. Had a better, but still sporadic 2019.
4. Philips - Good production (8 sacks in 2020), but the concussion/retirement is a big concern. If there weren't healthy concerns, he'd be my #2.
5. Ojulari - probably the best pure speed rusher in the class, but he's a much better fit for a 3-4 OLB. 

 

 

I only really like Rousseau and Ojulari from that list. I don’t think Ballard should be drafting any more raw pass rushers. We already have enough of those with Turay and Banogu. 

[BProland85]

59 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

What are your thoughts on Turner? Ballard seems to like project DL so wouldn't surprise me if he was picked. 

Yeah well project DEs haven’t exactly worked out for Ballard so I would hope he looks into more developed pass rushers coming out of the draft. 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

What are your thoughts on Turner? Ballard seems to like project DL so wouldn't surprise me if he was picked. 

That's been Ballard's biggest failure IMO (getting too cute and/or taking DE projects). A lot of draft capital used, and very little production to show for it.

 

I like Turner. Not near as dynamic in terms of pass rushing as the others, but very solid all around. Biggest concerns about him though is that he's from a smaller conference, and the leg/foot injuries.

 

IMO, he's not really a "project". Banogu, Basham, Turay, and Green were all more in the project mold to me. Lewis, who was a tweener, but not really a project, is similar. Not because I see Turner as a tweener, I just think both were/are solid, but not really raw, was a scheme product, or a converstion from 3-4 to 4-3.

 

You never know how guys will develop though. If Turner gets some technique help and improves his pass rush moves, perhaps his ceiling is higher. If I had to bet, he'll end up being a part time starter or depth guy long term. I've watched only a tiny bit of highlights on him, so could be totally wrong.

 

 

[EastStreet]

55 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I only really like Rousseau and Ojulari from that list. I don’t think Ballard should be drafting any more raw pass rushers. We already have enough of those with Turay and Banogu. 

I'd put Ojulari in the raw/project bucket too. Keep in mind he was a Jack LB in UGA's 3-4. 

Sounds like he has gained 10lbs and is now up to 250, but I'm just not sure he'll fit into a 4-3 DE slot.

He did play a decent amount of time with his hand in the dirt, but he also had crazy good talent around him.

[OhioColt]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

I’m sorry but that wouldn’t get me excited at all as a Colts fan. Who is Turner btw?

Payton Turner built a lot like Denico Autry whom we just lost in FA.  I like Turner a lot.  He is a shifty and violent tackler that has also shown a knack for defending passes.

[danlhart87]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

I’m sorry but that wouldn’t get me excited at all as a Colts fan. Who is Turner btw?

You don't like Cosmi?

[OhioColt]

Although not sure why we are discussing DE's and OT in this thread.  Was hoping someone hits on that elusive play making TE that this thread was originally created for.

[OhioColt]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

You don't like Cosmi?

Most definitely want Cosmi.  Problem is after his Pro-Day can see him get taken before us in the draft.  Might have to trade up before the Raiders with the Patriots.

[BlueCollarColts]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I like him but not sure if he really fits what the Colts are looking for in a play making tightend at the point in his career.  I kinda feel like they have a younger version of him in MAC already on the roster.  However if Ballard gets him in Ballard I trust.  

I’m high on MAC but our staff seems to differ to Doyle who I’m not super high on. He’s not bad but... definitely not a play making TE. 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, OhioColt said:

Most definitely want Cosmi.  Problem is after his Pro-Day can see him get taken before us in the draft.  Might have to trade up before the Raiders with the Patriots.

Rumors are swirling the Jets might stick with Darnold. If that remains true Sewell might go 2 then other LT might be drafted higher than expected. 

[OhioColt]

14 minutes ago, BlueCollarColts said:

I’m high on MAC but our staff seems to differ to Doyle who I’m not super high on. He’s not bad but... definitely not a play making TE. 

MAC is a better player than Doyle but what is holding MAC back is his problem with drops.

[BlueCollarColts]

15 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Rumors are swirling the Jets might stick with Darnold. If that remains true Sewell might go 2 then other LT might be drafted higher than expected. 

I can’t see the Jets sticking with Darnold unless they really don’t like any of the rookie QB’s. QB is the most important position to get right, I can’t see them passing on Zach Wilson for Darnold.

[BlueCollarColts]

2 minutes ago, OhioColt said:

MAC is a better player than Doyle but what is holding MAC back is his problem with drops.

Probably, but I would like to see us unleash MAC. He’s far more dynamic in the passing game than Doyle no he’s definitely a solid blocker. 
 

see what we have in the guy. 

[GoColts8818]

48 minutes ago, BlueCollarColts said:

I’m high on MAC but our staff seems to differ to Doyle who I’m not super high on. He’s not bad but... definitely not a play making TE. 

Doyle is a move the chains/really good run blocking tightend.  Neither MAC or Doyle are true playmaking tightends.  MAC can stretch the field more than Doyle but I think Ballard is looking for his Dallas Clark play maker at tightend or even Ebron when he had his head screwed on straight.  

[GoColts8818]

33 minutes ago, OhioColt said:

MAC is a better player than Doyle but what is holding MAC back is his problem with drops.

He’s a better receiver but not a better run blocker or route runner.  Those are the two things that Doyle does extremely well.  Being an outstanding run blocker for a tightend is why he gets played so much because running the ball is what this offense is built on.  Doyle isn’t flashy and is never going to be flashy but he is a bit underrated by some here because he does the little things not the sexy things.  I like MAC too and he’s a better blocker than given credit for at times but him and Doyle are pretty much the same kind of tightened just MAC has a few more physical gifts and Doyle runs really good routes and is a better blocker.  Both are good players you want on your team.

[BProland85]

6 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

You don't like Cosmi?

Not in the 1st round. There should be better prospects available. Most big boards I’ve seen has Cosmi outside the top 40. 

[NorthernColt]

50 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Not in the 1st round. There should be better prospects available. Most big boards I’ve seen has Cosmi outside the top 40. 

Outdated big boards likely. I'd consider us lucky if Cosmi even made it to 21 at this point.

[WoolMagnet]

8 hours ago, OhioColt said:

Although not sure why we are discussing DE's and OT in this thread.  Was hoping someone hits on that elusive play making TE that this thread was originally created for.

Good luck with that.

I’m just glad it hasnt turned into a Brissett thread.

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He’s a better receiver but not a better run blocker or route runner.  Those are the two things that Doyle does extremely well.  Being an outstanding run blocker for a tightend is why he gets played so much because running the ball is what this offense is built on.  Doyle isn’t flashy and is never going to be flashy but he is a bit underrated by some here because he does the little things not the sexy things.  I like MAC too and he’s a better blocker than given credit for at times but him and Doyle are pretty much the same kind of tightened just MAC has a few more physical gifts and Doyle runs really good routes and is a better blocker.  Both are good players you want on your team.

MAC IIRC graded out pretty darn good in blocking. I agree Doyle might be a better route runner, but MAC was running pretty advanced routes, and had great chemistry with Rivers when utilized. Take a look at the MN game, and it is very apparent. 

 

8 hours ago, OhioColt said:

MAC is a better player than Doyle but what is holding MAC back is his problem with drops.

Huh? MAC had one drop, and a 2.6% drop rate. That's not really a problem. And MAC had a top 5 (league) catch rate, which was significantly better than Doyle. MAC also had a much better contested catch rate

[danlhart87]

5 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Not in the 1st round. There should be better prospects available. Most big boards I’ve seen has Cosmi outside the top 40. 

Did you not see his RAS? He is definitely going in the 1st possibly even above 21.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Did you not see his RAS? He is definitely going in the 1st possibly even above 21.

RAS is nice, but it's certainly not everything. OT Spencer Brown got a higher RAS than Cosmi. Is he going 1st round too?

[shasta519]

12 hours ago, OhioColt said:

Most definitely want Cosmi.  Problem is after his Pro-Day can see him get taken before us in the draft.  Might have to trade up before the Raiders with the Patriots.

I don’t see how he’s not a lottery ticket. He is fast, athletic and strong...and has great tape. Teams in need of an OT aren’t going to pass up his potential.

[krunk]

18 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I just looked up Ojulari's pro day last week.

 

He's 6-foot-2, 249-pound. and ran 4.6.  So an inch shorter, and 9 lbs heavier than originally listed. So a couple inches shorter, and 21LBs lighter than Houston. Also about the same speed, maybe a bit slower than Houston's pro day. I would have expected him to be a bit faster. I guess he's quicker than fast.

 

Since it looks like he's packed on almost 10lbs of muscle pretty quick, perhaps he can add more weight. At 6-2 though, that's pretty short for a DE, and still leads me to OLB/3-4. 

You see that 4.36 Oweh just ran at his pro day?

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

RAS is nice, but it's certainly not everything. OT Spencer Brown got a higher RAS than Cosmi. Is he going 1st round too?

Higher than Cosmi?   Didn’t he just score something like a 9.9?

 

Can you post Browns chart.  That would be worth comparing. 

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Not in the 1st round. There should be better prospects available. Most big boards I’ve seen has Cosmi outside the top 40. 

That won’t last.  Boards are very fluid.  No combine.  Weird pro days.   Boards won’t be set for another month or so.  
 

Just because he’s outside the top-40 now,  doesn’t mean he’s stuck there.   Cosmi’s pro day only helped him. 

[danlhart87]

 

 

[shasta519]

48 minutes ago, krunk said:

You see that 4.36 Oweh just ran at his pro day?

These Pro Day numbers have to come with a grain of salt.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

These Pro Day numbers have to come with a grain of salt.

Yeah but you know he didn't really run a 4.6.  They aren't off by that much.

And of course since he's DE him running straight up the field isn't that important, but it's interesting. 

[CurBeatElite]

On 3/24/2021 at 7:21 PM, EastStreet said:

I think you're going out of your way to let Reich off the hook here. You argued it was because Ebron dropped it a bunch more with JB,, and that wasn't the case if you look at stats. Now your pivoting to the QBs couldn't extend. I think that's a bad argument too. We had one of the best OLs in the league, and for the most part, they gave the QBs plenty of time to allow for deeper routes. Heck JB had one of the worst time to throws, wasn't mobile, and still rarely got sacked. Rivers was kept clean too (28th most sacks out of 32).

 

Simply put, if you look at Reich's history, he really wasn't the guy who went out to get dynamic TEs. He inherited Antonio Gates when he took over as OC in SD/LA, and Gates was already one of their top pass catchers before he got there. He inherited Ertz when he got to Philly in 2016, and Ertz was already one of their top pass catchers before Frank got there (not to mention he wasn't calling plays).

 

I don't doubt that Frank sees value in dynamic pass catching TEs. I just have doubts that Frank's O will use a dynamic TE to their fullest ability. 

 

JB did have a bad time to throw, wasn't mobile and barely got sacked -- you're correct.  However, he was not good at extending plays and he was not good at going through his reads (those are pretty much facts with very few exceptions).  

 

Rivers did not have Ebron.  I think there is a strong argument that Rivers didn't really have any 'dynamic TE' as well.  He certainly didn't have any TE as dynamic as Gates, Ertz or Ebron.  We know what we have in Doyle - a reliable TE who is a solid blocker, has very good hands and is a good short distance and possession type of TE (by no means 'dynamic.'  Burton had a few dynamic plays, but again, he's not really a 'dynamic' player - he's more of a guy who (when healthy) is pretty reliable and does a good job when Reich is able to exploit mismatches for him.  MAC showed some signs of being dynamic early in the year and his production greatly declined as the year went on.  He did miss time to an injury earlier in the year and maybe he was dealing with some nagging stuff as the season went on... maybe Reich dropped the ball and just didn't use him enough, but I think not... I said earlier in this thread that I think some of what MAC had going for him was similar to Marcus Johnson who had a few games with big plays and then when teams had film on him and gameplanned for him he was taken out pretty easily.  I like MAC, he's a good blocker, seemingly has good hands and has shown some potential, but my guess is that the reason why he hasn't really produced consistently as a receiving TE throughout his career is because he's simply not that good -- certainly, he's not near the level of Gates, Ertz or Ebron in the 'dynamic' or receiving category.  

 

The only year where Frank had both very solid QB play and a dynamic TE (Luck and Ebron) resulted in a pro-bowl TE and a career year for Ebron (66 receptions, 750 yards, 13 TDs).  Ebron was our top TD catcher and 2nd in yards and receptions to TY that year.  

 

I don't really care that  Frank inherited Gates, Ertz, or Ebron -- the fact of the matter is when he had them all he had good to very good QB play and he actually had a dynamic TE, he utilized them very well.  On top of that, Ballard coming from KC had Kelce - so he obviously knows the value of a truly dynamic TE.  

 

We won't know until it happens (if it ever does), but Frank's track record suggests any time he's had a dynamic TE with solid QB play, the TE is a heavily utilized piece in his offense.

[danlhart87]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

For me, right now, as of this day.....

 

A great draft would be....

 

21.   Cosmi or Darrisaw      (I'm not sure either will be available at pik 21?)

 

54.   Turner or some other DE like Ossai.

 

 

On 3/24/2021 at 8:43 PM, danlhart87 said:

Here's what I think CB does at 21 and 54

 

Cosmi 21

Turner 54

Great minds think alike 

 

@NewColtsFan

[John Waylon]

Anyone know what Dallas Clark is up to? He’s still better than all the rest of the options out there. 

[TheNextGM]

Maybe we can trade 21 for 33 and 45 or 36 and 50?

33/36 - Cosmi (OT)

45/50 - Tryon (Edge)

54 - Freiermuth or Jordan (TE)

Holes filled. Let’s kickoff the season already.

[danlhart87]

46 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

Maybe we can trade 21 for 33 and 45 or 36 and 50?

33/36 - Cosmi (OT)

45/50 - Tryon (Edge)

54 - Freiermuth or Jordan (TE)

Holes filled. Let’s kickoff the season already.

Cosmi isn't falling that far 

Maybe Radunz at that point though 

[MikeCurtis]

On 3/25/2021 at 7:11 AM, NorthernColt said:

Outdated big boards likely. I'd consider us lucky if Cosmi even made it to 21 at this point.

I would agree ... he recently tested off the charts

[MikeCurtis]

10 hours ago, TheNextGM said:

Maybe we can trade 21 for 33 and 45 or 36 and 50?

33/36 - Cosmi (OT)

45/50 - Tryon (Edge)

54 - Freiermuth or Jordan (TE)

Holes filled. Let’s kickoff the season already.

I like your thinking, but I REALLY think someone is going to grab Cosmi earlier

 

As mentioned if we can pull off that trade, Radunz is probably there at 33

 

After watching Tryon, I think he will be a decent pro, and fit this defense

 

I like Jordan as well, and he might just be there at 54... the guy is a nightmare from the slot

 

If we get Radunz, Tryon, and Jordon..... It gets us three developmental prospects at positions of need

 

There is no way that all 3 start day one, but maybe by mid season, they all could get some playing time

 

(We do need a LT that can day one... Radunz is a quality prospect, but throwing him to the wolves so early might be a problem) 

 

 

[danlhart87]

46 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I like your thinking, but I REALLY think someone is going to grab Cosmi earlier

 

As mentioned if we can pull off that trade, Radunz is probably there at 33

 

After watching Tryon, I think he will be a decent pro, and fit this defense

 

I like Jordan as well, and he might just be there at 54... the guy is a nightmare from the slot

 

If we get Radunz, Tryon, and Jordon..... It gets us three developmental prospects at positions of need

 

There is no way that all 3 start day one, but maybe by mid season, they all could get some playing time

 

(We do need a LT that can day one... Radunz is a quality prospect, but throwing him to the wolves so early might be a problem) 

 

 

I strongly believe a rookie LT would be fine next to Q