Colts in the market for a play making tight end per Ballard.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

If they wanted playmaking TE, why didn't they get Smith or Hunter?

 

Is Ertz considered a playmaker?

And he's like 30 and I don't think he was fast in his prime?

Probably a good chance we get Ertz and that's ok, BUT I'd prefer a younger, speedier TE and wouldn't mind drafting one....even if it's our first pick.

[BluesGirl]

1 hour ago, bestQBever said:

-1% chance Pitts falls to us. We'd have to trade up into the top 10 to get him

Oh. I agree.  But @danlhart87 said no way.    Just sayin.     I would trade up to get him  TBH.     KId is going to terrorize the league 

 

[OhioColt]

10 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

 

He's just signed for the Chargers. Close on the price though - $6m.

Probably why we whiffed again under bid and lost another FA target 

[coming on strong]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:34 PM, EastStreet said:

Eagles gave Ertz permission to see a trade, but IMO we already have play making TEs that are simply underutilized. 

 

If we are looking for a 3rd, Ertz is fine, but I wouldn't pay a lot for his age and diminishing production. I'd go younger.

I like our tight ends , but still think we need a tight end with speed .   Colts offense with Ebron looked amazing and mo or jack do not have his speed and athletic ability . Mo is good for the red zone but doesn’t have the speed ebron had . 

[coming on strong]

The colts line looked bad when Buckner was out . I think this is depth behind Buckner . I still think we get a pass rusher in free agency and draft one with the first pick and tackle with the second pick . This class is loaded at tackle we can get a 1 st round talent in the second .

[Nickster]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:41 PM, GoColts8818 said:

It’s part of pattern some have here.

 

Fan comes up with completely unrealistic expectation.

Fan ignores people who tell them it’s unrealistic.

Team doesn’t do unrealistic expectation.

Fan gets mad at Ballard for not doing their unrealistic expectation and says Ballard sucks because of it.

 

We are at step four right now with Colts free agency.

But Pattern continues this way too.

 

Fan says something they think while talking ball

Fan is implored that he/she must think the way some other fan thinks.

The Fan that explains this to the other fan feels a sense of self -righteousness

Explaining fan goes over to another site whether it be about hang gliding or baseball and does the same thing.

 

 

[EastStreet]

On 3/18/2021 at 11:43 AM, CurBeatElite said:

 

Agree with most of the rest of your post, so just quoting this.   Ebron came into Indy with drops as a major concern.  He seemed to have fixed that with Luck.  Somehow, they seemed to come back with Brissett.  Brissett was also an obvious downgrade from Luck and struggled to go through his progressions and make proper check downs.  

 

I'm quite sure part of Ebron's use/targets declining was due to him dropping the ball (same for JT going to the bench after fumbling this past season).  Part of it seemed that Ebron is a prima donna and would rather put up individual stats than win games.  Ballard pretty much flat out said Ebron quit on the team that year and TBH, while the QB play declined, it was also pretty obvious Ebron's play declined as well.

IDK. Ebron had 9 drops with Luck, 5 with JB. The drop % difference wasn't significant between the two years (1%). 

 

IMO, Reich just let Luck be Luck in 2018, and Luck preferred the deeper routes that Ebron could be productive on, as well as obvious RZ advantages. When Doyle was back healthy and JB was the QB, Reich just went with his preferred type of O which didn't include the skill set Ebron brought. 

[EastStreet]

On 3/18/2021 at 2:24 PM, BluesGirl said:

If Pitts falls to us he will.    

Nope. He won't fall to us anyway though. 

There's just no way we take a TE when we have the significant holes/needs that we do. You have to use that 1st pick on a high end, high dollar position, and get the best long term value you can.

On 3/18/2021 at 3:21 PM, superrep1967 said:

Ballard is drafting a left tackle in the first round bank on it. 

I'm going with DE (or CB), then T.

[EastStreet]

11 hours ago, coming on strong said:

I like our tight ends , but still think we need a tight end with speed .   Colts offense with Ebron looked amazing and mo or jack do not have his speed and athletic ability . Mo is good for the red zone but doesn’t have the speed ebron had . 

 

Ebron has good speed, rare for a guy his size.

 

Ertz is about the same speed as Mo. I see Mo as plenty athletic. Not a speedster, but plenty athletic. You don't play BB and lack athleticism. 

 

Doyle is the slowest of all of them. but runs great routes and has good "last cut" separation.

[akcolt]

On 3/18/2021 at 4:35 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

If they wanted playmaking TE, why didn't they get Smith or Hunter?

 

Is Ertz considered a playmaker?

And he's like 30 and I don't think he was fast in his prime?

Probably a good chance we get Ertz and that's ok, BUT I'd prefer a younger, speedier TE and wouldn't mind drafting one....even if it's our first pick.

I'd be shocked if we gave Philly a pick for Ertz.  It's not a move I want to see happen. Ballard giving up another pick seems high unlikely. I guess we could be in play if we swapped players or if he is released. 

[Rally5]

On 3/17/2021 at 10:41 PM, GoColts8818 said:

It’s part of pattern some have here.

 

Fan comes up with completely unrealistic expectation.

Fan ignores people who tell them it’s unrealistic.

Team doesn’t do unrealistic expectation.

Fan gets mad at Ballard for not doing their unrealistic expectation and says Ballard sucks because of it.

 

We are at step four right now with Colts free agency.

Best post I've read in a while!

[CurBeatElite]

On 3/19/2021 at 7:46 PM, EastStreet said:

IDK. Ebron had 9 drops with Luck, 5 with JB. The drop % difference wasn't significant between the two years (1%). 

 

IMO, Reich just let Luck be Luck in 2018, and Luck preferred the deeper routes that Ebron could be productive on, as well as obvious RZ advantages. When Doyle was back healthy and JB was the QB, Reich just went with his preferred type of O which didn't include the skill set Ebron brought. 

 

Or Ebron couldn't bring them with JB as QB because JB couldn't extend plays or go through his reads properly.  Luck was a master of extending plays with his legs, which allowed for deep routes to develop and allowed for his WRs to make some improvisations to get open when plays broke down.   Jacoby didn't provide that option, and Rivers really didn't either as he was basically a statue in the pocket.  

 

It wouldn't be fair to compare Wentz to Luck or to ask Wentz to be the 2nd-coming of Luck.... but of the QBs we have had since Luck, Wentz is the closest to being able to play that style.  Mainly in that he's got a bigger arm than Rivers and more mobility than Brissett and Rivers.  I doubt Reich is going to encourage him to extend plays and make a lot of plays with his legs, but he at least has the ability to do so if the pocket breaks down or if the situation dictates it... Jacoby and Rivers certainly didn't excel in that area.

[Stephen]

59 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Or Ebron couldn't bring them with JB as QB because JB couldn't extend plays or go through his reads properly.  Luck was a master of extending plays with his legs, which allowed for deep routes to develop and allowed for his WRs to make some improvisations to get open when plays broke down.   Jacoby didn't provide that option, and Rivers really didn't either as he was basically a statue in the pocket.  

 

It wouldn't be fair to compare Wentz to Luck or to ask Wentz to be the 2nd-coming of Luck.... but of the QBs we have had since Luck, Wentz is the closest to being able to play that style.  Mainly in that he's got a bigger arm than Rivers and more mobility than Brissett and Rivers.  I doubt Reich is going to encourage him to extend plays and make a lot of plays with his legs, but he at least has the ability to do so if the pocket breaks down or if the situation dictates it... Jacoby and Rivers certainly didn't excel in that area.

I disagree  jacoby  did extend plays on a few occasions  like the throw to Hilton  in the denver game. His problem was a slow release and terrible  deep accuracy 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

The Colts are in the market for a playmaking TE...... but they didn't say what year?   

[CurBeatElite]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

I disagree  jacoby  did extend plays on a few occasions  like the throw to Hilton  in the denver game. His problem was a slow release and terrible  deep accuracy 

 

Yes, a very 'few occasions'.  Your example is an outlier and far from normal, IMO.  Luck regularly extended plays and excelled at it.  

[EastStreet]

On 3/23/2021 at 11:24 AM, CurBeatElite said:

 

Or Ebron couldn't bring them with JB as QB because JB couldn't extend plays or go through his reads properly.  Luck was a master of extending plays with his legs, which allowed for deep routes to develop and allowed for his WRs to make some improvisations to get open when plays broke down.   Jacoby didn't provide that option, and Rivers really didn't either as he was basically a statue in the pocket.  

 

It wouldn't be fair to compare Wentz to Luck or to ask Wentz to be the 2nd-coming of Luck.... but of the QBs we have had since Luck, Wentz is the closest to being able to play that style.  Mainly in that he's got a bigger arm than Rivers and more mobility than Brissett and Rivers.  I doubt Reich is going to encourage him to extend plays and make a lot of plays with his legs, but he at least has the ability to do so if the pocket breaks down or if the situation dictates it... Jacoby and Rivers certainly didn't excel in that area.

I think you're going out of your way to let Reich off the hook here. You argued it was because Ebron dropped it a bunch more with JB,, and that wasn't the case if you look at stats. Now your pivoting to the QBs couldn't extend. I think that's a bad argument too. We had one of the best OLs in the league, and for the most part, they gave the QBs plenty of time to allow for deeper routes. Heck JB had one of the worst time to throws, wasn't mobile, and still rarely got sacked. Rivers was kept clean too (28th most sacks out of 32).

 

Simply put, if you look at Reich's history, he really wasn't the guy who went out to get dynamic TEs. He inherited Antonio Gates when he took over as OC in SD/LA, and Gates was already one of their top pass catchers before he got there. He inherited Ertz when he got to Philly in 2016, and Ertz was already one of their top pass catchers before Frank got there (not to mention he wasn't calling plays).

 

I don't doubt that Frank sees value in dynamic pass catching TEs. I just have doubts that Frank's O will use a dynamic TE to their fullest ability. 

[BlueCollarColts]

Release Zach Ertz you cowards 

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 3/19/2021 at 7:49 PM, EastStreet said:

Nope. He won't fall to us anyway though. 

There's just no way we take a TE when we have the significant holes/needs that we do. You have to use that 1st pick on a high end, high dollar position, and get the best long term value you can.

I'm going with DE (or CB), then T.

I hope the first pick can be Rousseau or Phillips from the U. One of those two lines up next to DeFo has potential for devastation. We always get stellar players from Miami, Reg and Edge...

[krunk]

So far of the edge players the only ones that stick out to me are Ojulari and Paye.  The other ones I'm kind of so so on. 

[krunk]

Seems like most of the talent pool is at OL, CB and WR. 

[danlhart87]

47 minutes ago, krunk said:

So far of the edge players the only ones that stick out to me are Ojulari and Paye.  The other ones I'm kind of so so on. 

Ojulari from what I read is protected to be set for 3 4

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, BlueCollarColts said:

Release Zach Ertz you cowards 

Wasn’t he getting traded to the Bills within 24 hours days ago?  At least I think I saw something about that.  

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I hope the first pick can be Rousseau or Phillips from the U. One of those two lines up next to DeFo has potential for devastation. We always get stellar players from Miami, Reg and Edge...

I just want our first pick to be DE, and I hope it's at 21 or before (not in the second after a trade back).

 

I don't think any DEs this year are sure things, but I do think the first 5 have very high potential.

Just now, krunk said:

So far of the edge players the only ones that stick out to me are Ojulari and Paye.  The other ones I'm kind of so so on. 

It's a weird year for DE. All 5 guys have high potential. My rank keeps changing as I watch more film, but here's where I'm at now.

 

1. Rousseau - probably the best fit for our scheme. The opt out concerns me, but not as much as the potential scheme reliant stats. 15.5 sacks in 2019 before he opted out of 2020. That's pretty crazy, and it wasn't sporadic. IMO, the most well rounded guy taking into account production, size, etc.
2. Oweh - just a freak. Rumored 4.3s forty time at 6-5 and 255. Oh mercy. 6.5 TFLs but no sacks in 7 games. Still raw and only a one year starter. Will probably take a few years.
3. Paye - only 2 sacks in 2020, both vs lowly MN. Had a better, but still sporadic 2019.
4. Philips - Good production (8 sacks in 2020), but the concussion/retirement is a big concern. If there weren't healthy concerns, he'd be my #2.
5. Ojulari - probably the best pure speed rusher in the class, but he's a much better fit for a 3-4 OLB. 

 

 

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Ojulari from what I read is protected to be set for 3 4

Im just pointing out who I think can play.  I know his projection

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I just want our first pick to be DE, and I hope it's at 21 or before (not in the second after a trade back).

 

I don't think any DEs this year are sure things, but I do think the first 5 have very high potential.

It's a weird year for DE. All 5 guys have high potential. My rank keeps changing as I watch more film, but here's where I'm at now.

 

1. Rousseau - probably the best fit for our scheme. The opt out concerns me, but not as much as the potential scheme reliant stats. 15.5 sacks in 2019 before he opted out of 2020. That's pretty crazy, and it wasn't sporadic. IMO, the most well rounded guy taking into account production, size, etc.
2. Oweh - just a freak. Rumored 4.3s forty time at 6-5 and 255. Oh mercy. 6.5 TFLs but no sacks in 7 games. Still raw and only a one year starter. Will probably take a few years.
3. Paye - only 2 sacks in 2020, both vs lowly MN. Had a better, but still sporadic 2019.
4. Philips - Good production (8 sacks in 2020), but the concussion/retirement is a big concern. If there weren't healthy concerns, he'd be my #2.
5. Ojulari - probably the best pure speed rusher in the class, but he's a much better fit for a 3-4 OLB. 

 

 

From how I saw them using Ojulari I do agree it's fit for a 3-4.  But I will say he's about Justin Houston size, and I think Houston was a 3-4 backer in college as well. 

[danlhart87]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Im just pointing out who I think can play.  I know his projection

He can play elsewhere then 

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I just want our first pick to be DE, and I hope it's at 21 or before (not in the second after a trade back).

 

I don't think any DEs this year are sure things, but I do think the first 5 have very high potential.

It's a weird year for DE. All 5 guys have high potential. My rank keeps changing as I watch more film, but here's where I'm at now.

 

1. Rousseau - probably the best fit for our scheme. The opt out concerns me, but not as much as the potential scheme reliant stats. 15.5 sacks in 2019 before he opted out of 2020. That's pretty crazy, and it wasn't sporadic. IMO, the most well rounded guy taking into account production, size, etc.
2. Oweh - just a freak. Rumored 4.3s forty time at 6-5 and 255. Oh mercy. 6.5 TFLs but no sacks in 7 games. Still raw and only a one year starter. Will probably take a few years.
3. Paye - only 2 sacks in 2020, both vs lowly MN. Had a better, but still sporadic 2019.
4. Philips - Good production (8 sacks in 2020), but the concussion/retirement is a big concern. If there weren't healthy concerns, he'd be my #2.
5. Ojulari - probably the best pure speed rusher in the class, but he's a much better fit for a 3-4 OLB. 

 

 

Rousseau I see him getting there, but for some reason I just don't get that excited about the get off or anything else.  I've got to go back and watch some more.  Oweh I'm going to look at him bc I haven't yet.  Zero sacks isn't encouraging but Leonard Floyd wasnt a sack master in college either.   All his stuff was athletic projections. 

[danlhart87]

Here's what I think CB does at 21 and 54

 

Cosmi 21

Turner 54

[krunk]

14 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I just want our first pick to be DE, and I hope it's at 21 or before (not in the second after a trade back).

 

I don't think any DEs this year are sure things, but I do think the first 5 have very high potential.

It's a weird year for DE. All 5 guys have high potential. My rank keeps changing as I watch more film, but here's where I'm at now.

 

1. Rousseau - probably the best fit for our scheme. The opt out concerns me, but not as much as the potential scheme reliant stats. 15.5 sacks in 2019 before he opted out of 2020. That's pretty crazy, and it wasn't sporadic. IMO, the most well rounded guy taking into account production, size, etc.
2. Oweh - just a freak. Rumored 4.3s forty time at 6-5 and 255. Oh mercy. 6.5 TFLs but no sacks in 7 games. Still raw and only a one year starter. Will probably take a few years.
3. Paye - only 2 sacks in 2020, both vs lowly MN. Had a better, but still sporadic 2019.
4. Philips - Good production (8 sacks in 2020), but the concussion/retirement is a big concern. If there weren't healthy concerns, he'd be my #2.
5. Ojulari - probably the best pure speed rusher in the class, but he's a much better fit for a 3-4 OLB. 

 

 

Im looking at Oweh now.  Very athletic and quick, doesn't take long to see the potential at all. 

Depending on the round I wouldn't mind this pick.  He could be coached up to be really good. 

[EastStreet]

19 minutes ago, krunk said:

From how I saw them using Ojulari I do agree it's fit for a 3-4.  But I will say he's about Justin Houston size, and I think Houston was a 3-4 backer in college as well. 

Houston was 30lbs heavier going into the draft. Houston IIRC was 270ish, Ojulari is 240ish. Houston was UGA product, and was very athletic, and was raw coming into the league. But he was much bigger. 

[krunk]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Houston was 30lbs heavier going into the draft. Houston IIRC was 270ish, Ojulari is 240ish. Houston was UGA product, and was very athletic, and was raw coming into the league. But he was much bigger. 

Houston is not 270 now though.  He's more like 250 ish. 

[krunk]

Put Turay, Oweh, Rochell, and Lewis together you might have a little something. Maybe

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, krunk said:

Rousseau I see him getting there, but for some reason I just don't get that excited about the get off or anything else.  I've got to go back and watch some more.  Oweh I'm going to look at him bc I haven't yet.  Zero sacks isn't encouraging but Leonard Floyd wasnt a sack master in college either.   All his stuff was athletic projections. 

All I'll suggest when watching film, is don't get caught up on "great tape", unless it's vs great competition.

 

Yup, it's not all about sacks, but I do prefer to see a decent amount, and consistent production. It would be nice to see pass rush win rates at the college level.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Houston is not 270 now though.  He's more like 250 ish. 

Nah. Every site except PFF lists him at 270. PFF lists him at 258. ESPN, Fox, CBS, NBC, PFR,  Colts.com and NFL.com all show 270. He may not be 270, but he's certainly not 250. NFL.com and team sites are typically the most accurate. 

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Nah. Every site except PFF lists him at 270. PFF lists him at 258. ESPN, Fox, CBS, NBC, PFR,  Colts.com and NFL.com all show 270. He may not be 270, but he's certainly not 250. NFL.com and team sites are typically the most accurate. 

When I google him he's listed at 258, but overall I agree he's more fit for the 3-4

[EastStreet]

26 minutes ago, krunk said:

Im looking at Oweh now.  Very athletic and quick, doesn't take long to see the potential at all. 

Depending on the round I wouldn't mind this pick.  He could be coached up to be really good. 

I think a little patience would pay off big time with Oweh. Could also be a bust, but my bet is that he's at minimum a great situational pass rush guy.

11 minutes ago, krunk said:

Put Turay, Oweh, Rochell, and Lewis together you might have a little something. Maybe

Those are 4 maybes, and some are big maybes lol.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I think a little patience would pay off big time with Oweh. Could also be a bust, but my bet is that he's at minimum a great situational pass rush guy.

Those are 4 maybes, and some are big maybes lol.

What are your thoughts on Turner? Ballard seems to like project DL so wouldn't surprise me if he was picked. 

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I think a little patience would pay off big time with Oweh. Could also be a bust, but my bet is that he's at minimum a great situational pass rush guy.

Those are 4 maybes, and some are big maybes lol.

Yeah I wasn't being totally serious.  Just hypothesizing a little

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

When I google him he's listed at 258, but overall I agree he's more fit for the 3-4

I just looked up Ojulari's pro day last week.

 

He's 6-foot-2, 249-pound. and ran 4.6.  So an inch shorter, and 9 lbs heavier than originally listed. So a couple inches shorter, and 21LBs lighter than Houston. Also about the same speed, maybe a bit slower than Houston's pro day. I would have expected him to be a bit faster. I guess he's quicker than fast.

 

Since it looks like he's packed on almost 10lbs of muscle pretty quick, perhaps he can add more weight. At 6-2 though, that's pretty short for a DE, and still leads me to OLB/3-4. 

[BlueCollarColts]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Wasn’t he getting traded to the Bills within 24 hours days ago?  At least I think I saw something about that.  

The Eagles were apparently asking for a 3rd round pick so those talks went nowhere