Turay

[WoolMagnet]

Was watching the last Texans game again and on that Watson fumble recovered by Houston i noticed a #57 flashing around.  Had to look twice, then i said (out loud) Turay?!

  Btw, coach watshisface (drawing a blank) that calls game talked well about Turay “comin on” in recent games.

Watching the rest , he can scream around the edge well, causing the WB to move up.  He helped create a sack by doing this later and is disruptive when pressure cones from the middle.  It squeezes the QB. However, i didnt see much else.  No bull rush, and seemed to get physically handled when not using speed.

  But thats ok.  St least on 3rd downs we gave a guy with a Mathis-type low to -the-ground edge rush off one side.  Houston and the other guys can stunt or do their thing.

  But i definitely saw effort and flashes.  He needs more plays. 10 or 15 lbs might not hurt either.

  I do see potential tho, and will be watching more closely for him.

[Stephen]

5 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Was watching the last Texans game again and on that Watson fumble recovered by Houston i noticed a #57 flashing around.  Had to look twice, then i said (out loud) Turay?!

  Btw, coach watshisface (drawing a blank) that calls game talked well about Turay “comin on” in recent games.

Watching the rest , he can scream around the edge well, causing the WB to move up.  He helped create a sack by doing this later and is disruptive when pressure cones from the middle.  It squeezes the QB. However, i didnt see much else.  No bull rush, and seemed to get physically handled when not using speed.

  But thats ok.  St least on 3rd downs we gave a guy with a Mathis-type low to -the-ground edge rush off one side.  Houston and the other guys can stunt or do their thing.

  But i definitely saw effort and flashes.  He needs more plays. 10 or 15 lbs might not hurt either.

  I do see potential tho, and will be watching more closely for him.

Needs to stay healthy 

[Smonroe]

Zach Hicks has a nice article describing his progress. 
 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2020/12/25/22198041/film-room-kemoko-turay-slowly-working-back-to-form-for-the-colts

[PrideOfAthens17]

I really think he's going to be a key factor in this game Sunday. Stay tuned...

[Dogg63]

Yesterday Turay played just 15 snaps.

 

Oh, and he managed to rack up 3 QB hits and 1 sack in those 15 snaps!!

 

 

[compuls1v3]

2 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

Yesterday Turay played just 15 snaps.

 

Oh, and he managed to rack up 3 QB hits and 1 sack in those 15 snaps!!

 

 

Hopefully that game will spark some confidence back into him and he gets some more pressures and sacks against the Bills.  LET'S GO COLTS!

[NewColtsFan]

On 12/26/2020 at 12:26 AM, WoolMagnet said:

Was watching the last Texans game again and on that Watson fumble recovered by Houston i noticed a #57 flashing around.  Had to look twice, then i said (out loud) Turay?!

  Btw, coach watshisface (drawing a blank) that calls game talked well about Turay “comin on” in recent games.

Watching the rest , he can scream around the edge well, causing the WB to move up.  He helped create a sack by doing this later and is disruptive when pressure cones from the middle.  It squeezes the QB. However, i didnt see much else.  No bull rush, and seemed to get physically handled when not using speed.

  But thats ok.  St least on 3rd downs we gave a guy with a Mathis-type low to -the-ground edge rush off one side.  Houston and the other guys can stunt or do their thing.

  But i definitely saw effort and flashes.  He needs more plays. 10 or 15 lbs might not hurt either.

  I do see potential tho, and will be watching more closely for him.

There's a post in this thread with a breakdown for Turay.....

 

15 snaps, 3 QB hits and 1 sack. 
 

I think this is what we all hoped for.....  

[Four2itus]

Turay!......hurray!........... coincidence?

 

I think not. 

[NorthernColt]

I'd love to see him figure it out and be a mainstay for us. Im still not sold on him personally. Injuries aside. Hes shown flashes at times. Can't set the edge at all though. We'll see if he can atleast be a dominant one trick pony we can rely on as a situational rusher.

[Shive]

5 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

Yesterday Turay played just 15 snaps.

 

Oh, and he managed to rack up 3 QB hits and 1 sack in those 15 snaps!!

 

 

 

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

There's a post in this thread with a breakdown for Turay.....

 

15 snaps, 3 QB hits and 1 sack. 
 

I think this is what we all hoped for.....  

I'm not sure about the hurries, but I know the sack was against the backup LT after Robinson went out. Not to say I wasn't pumped to see Turay scream around that edge on the sack (even if he overshot him initially), but I think it's important to keep things in perspective and not get our expectations too high just yet.

[Dogg63]

1 minute ago, Shive said:

but I think it's important to keep things in perspective and not get our expectations too high just yet.

[Shive]

2 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

[coming on strong]

7 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

Yesterday Turay played just 15 snaps.

 

Oh, and he managed to rack up 3 QB hits and 1 sack in those 15 snaps!!

 

 

why the limited snap count?  hes been back since before the packers game right ?  close to two months 

[coming on strong]

12 minutes ago, Shive said:

 

I'm not sure about the hurries, but I know the sack was against the backup LT after Robinson went out. Not to say I wasn't pumped to see Turay scream around that edge on the sack (even if he overshot him initially), but I think it's important to keep things in perspective and not get our expectations too high just yet.

turray next year will hit over 10 sacks if healthy the whole year . I have zero doubt about it , he is a pro bowlers in training .

[Shive]

7 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

turray next year will hit over 10 sacks if healthy the whole year . I have zero doubt about it , he is a pro bowlers in training .

I've been extremely optimistic and hopeful about him. I think with a full, healthy off-season, he'll shine.

[Dogg63]

23 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

why the limited snap count?  hes been back since before the packers game right ?  close to two months 

Good question - I just checked and the Jags had exactly 15 3rd downs in the game. I think we're trying to play him on obvious passing downs. 

[Defjamz26]

Next year he needs to do more than just flash though. If he’s going to be a mainstay be needs to dominate when healthy. I still say draft a DE. Houston and Autry both FAs and you’d be crazy to hand over the keys to Turray and Lewis.

[wordofmouth]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Next year he needs to do more than just flash though. If he’s going to be a mainstay be needs to dominate when healthy. I still say draft a DE. Houston and Autry both FAs and you’d be crazy to hand over the keys to Turray and Lewis.

Yes that makes me nervous. I have a feeling they might resign Autry, but what do I know? 

 

[wordofmouth]

Allen has been getting a lot of time in the pocket. We need Turay to be at his most disruptive along with several others. 

I am not confident about this game and that is the main reason. If we can't appy consistant pressure Josh is going to pick us appart. 

 

 

[CR91]

Hopefully the snap count is over. We need Turay for more then just 3rd down and passing situations.

[Nickster]

4 hours ago, CR91 said:

Hopefully the snap count is over. We need Turay for more then just 3rd down and passing situations.

He gets pushed around in the run game.  He’s probably going to be a specialist, but if he’s good at that specialty, he’s going to be special.

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, wordofmouth said:

Yes that makes me nervous. I have a feeling they might resign Autry, but what do I know? 

 

At this point you have to resign him or Houston. Cant bank all your money on the draft, and FA pass rushers are usually expensive.

[DougDew]

16 hours ago, Shive said:

 

I'm not sure about the hurries, but I know the sack was against the backup LT after Robinson went out. Not to say I wasn't pumped to see Turay scream around that edge on the sack (even if he overshot him initially), but I think it's important to keep things in perspective and not get our expectations too high just yet.

This is what Turay did last season.  He feasted on bad OTs, but didn't do much against the playoff caliber type.  You recall Freeney did well against them all.  Tough comparison I know, but a team needs to be able to have pass rushers in the playoffs, that's how important an EDGE is and why they are hard to find.

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

This is what Turay did last season.  He feasted on bad OTs, but didn't do much against the playoff caliber type.  You recall Freeney did well against them all.  Tough comparison I know, but a team needs to be able to have pass rushers in the playoffs, that's how important an EDGE is and why they are hard to find.

Turay wasn't drafted to be Dwight Freeney though man.  He was a top ten pick.  93 had  a 4-5 year run where he was as good an edge rusher as there was all time if not the absolute best.

 

I think people have unrealistic expectations of Turay.  I think the hope is that he creates some havoc during passing downs, not dominate all phases of the game on all downs.

 

And we need that in our scheme.  Stewart and Buckner can help make up for the deficit in the run game IMO.  

 

To me, he's shown signs that he MIGHT be an effective edge rusher going forward.

[Smash Mouth]

50 minutes ago, DougDew said:

This is what Turay did last season.  He feasted on bad OTs, but didn't do much against the playoff caliber type.  You recall Freeney did well against them all.  Tough comparison I know, but a team needs to be able to have pass rushers in the playoffs, that's how important an EDGE is and why they are hard to find.

No only that but the Cover 2 we run demands a very good Edge rusher

[Shive]

54 minutes ago, DougDew said:

This is what Turay did last season.  He feasted on bad OTs, but didn't do much against the playoff caliber type.  You recall Freeney did well against them all.  Tough comparison I know, but a team needs to be able to have pass rushers in the playoffs, that's how important an EDGE is and why they are hard to find.

I don't know that Freeney is the most appropriate comparison, but I think your overall point goes to exactly what I was getting at. Turay has had most of his success against backup LT's, but hasn't done much against starters. Hopefully he's able to prove us wrong on that, and preferably soon.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

Turay wasn't drafted to be Dwight Freeney though man.  He was a top ten pick.  93 had  a 4-5 year run where he was as good an edge rusher as there was all time if not the absolute best.

 

I think people have unrealistic expectations of Turay.  I think the hope is that he creates some havoc during passing downs, not dominate all phases of the game on all downs.

 

And we need that in our scheme.  Stewart and Buckner can help make up for the deficit in the run game IMO.  

 

To me, he's shown signs that he MIGHT be an effective edge rusher going forward.

I agree.  I think the in the past, Freeney and Mathis would get gassed at the end of games.  It looks like Ballard is taking a more rotational approach to the edge position, and using the 3T Buckner as our primary disruptive single-named player.

 

But if our edges cant set the edges, QBs will just audible to run plays.  While I like the rotational approach in general, at least one of our edges needs to be the primary guy that gets a lot of plays and he has to be good enough in both the passing game and running game.  The other side can have a pure rotation, IMO, as well as Grover giving way to a Lewis type in passing situations.

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  I think the in the past, Freeney and Mathis would get gassed at the end of games.  It looks like Ballard is taking a more rotational approach to the edge position, and using the 3T Buckner as our primary disruptive single-named player.

 

But if our edges cant set the edges, QBs will just audible to run plays.  While I like the rotational approach in general, at least one of our edges needs to be the primary guy that gets a lot of plays and he has to be good enough in both the passing game and running game.  The other side can have a pure rotation, IMO, as well as Grover giving way to a Lewis type in passing situations.

 

Freeney and Mathis got tired, and I think this is also happening to our team.

 

It seems like teams do nothing but pass against us, and the rush is  just gassed in the 2nd halves of games.  SF had that Dline rotation thing going last year and we need that.

 

People are all into blitzing.  We actually had one more sack that Baltimore had this year, and they blitz.  I think we would get absolutely torched blitzting.  Our LB corps is weak in coverage and our secondary has some serious weaknesses.

 

We need another stud DT IMO in the rotation and another couple of servicable edge rushers.

 

One thing I wish we would try is pressing at the LOS.  I don't think we need to blitz that often, but I 'd like to see us try to do more to throw receivers off their routes.  To me, Rock is kinda like Taylor earlier in the year.  I kept thinking WTH would you draft Taylor and try to turn him into Leveon Bell?  They sent him downhill and he's looking fantastic.

Rock loves to beat people up.  OK.  Great.  Let's get him closer to the LOS and have him try beating the dog % out of these guys.  I think he might blossum then.

[Nickster]

We actually have good rushers.  We have 3 guys in the top 25 in sacks.

[Colts1324]

22 hours ago, NorthernColt said:

I'd love to see him figure it out and be a mainstay for us. Im still not sold on him personally. Injuries aside. Hes shown flashes at times. Can't set the edge at all though. We'll see if he can atleast be a dominant one trick pony we can rely on as a situational rusher.

He reminds me of a poor man's Vic Beasley. Maybe he has a couple of good seasons like Vic, or maybe not. He has the potential

[shasta519]

18 hours ago, Shive said:

 

I'm not sure about the hurries, but I know the sack was against the backup LT after Robinson went out. Not to say I wasn't pumped to see Turay scream around that edge on the sack (even if he overshot him initially), but I think it's important to keep things in perspective and not get our expectations too high just yet.

 

It was against Will Richardson...who has a 43 PFF grade this year. What really made that play was Houston destroying Jawann Taylor and causing Glennon to step up into a collapsing pocket. But we expect Houston to be able to do that.

 

But I am just happy to see Turay on the field...though I do agree about perspective. The Colts were pressuring Glennon all game...and JAC had no chance to run the ball without Robinson. Late season games against really bad teams playing out the string have a tendency to inflate stats...especially for a defense playing a bad QB and a bad OL (the CAR game last year also being an example). But it was still great to see.

 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

51 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Freeney and Mathis got tired, and I think this is also happening to our team.

 

It seems like teams do nothing but pass against us, and the rush is  just gassed in the 2nd halves of games.  SF had that Dline rotation thing going last year and we need that.

 

People are all into blitzing.  We actually had one more sack that Baltimore had this year, and they blitz.  I think we would get absolutely torched blitzting.  Our LB corps is weak in coverage and our secondary has some serious weaknesses.

 

We need another stud DT IMO in the rotation and another couple of servicable edge rushers.

 

One thing I wish we would try is pressing at the LOS.  I don't think we need to blitz that often, but I 'd like to see us try to do more to throw receivers off their routes.  To me, Rock is kinda like Taylor earlier in the year.  I kept thinking WTH would you draft Taylor and try to turn him into Leveon Bell?  They sent him downhill and he's looking fantastic.

Rock loves to beat people up.  OK.  Great.  Let's get him closer to the LOS and have him try beating the dog % out of these guys.  I think he might blossum then.

A few thoughts.  I'd prefer to spread out the talent along the dline and not concentrate it in the middle.  So I'd prefer the other stud to be more of a three down DE. And in a 4-3, that guy should be about 6.4 270.  250 to 260 pound DEs are purely pass rushers, IMO.  A DE like that will not get the sack numbers... a decent amount but not stud PR stats..but the situational nature of the other rotational players, plus Buckner, should keep the team ranked high in terms of pressures and sacks.

 

Rock is not quick enough to tangle at the LOS then turn and run with the receiver for a long distance.  If we're going to draft corners like RYS, who are fine for a zone scheme, then we need to stop this idea of switching to man coverage.  I think RYS gets his penalties in deep coverage and gets beat deep because he's been tossed into man coverage down the field, IMO.  I'd have to look it up, but I wonder what his completion percentage and PI percentage is on shorter routes.  My guess is that they are noticeably lower.

[Two_pound]

I wasn't on board with the Turay pick when it happened but, once again Ballard outsmarted me. If Turay can get healthy and stay healthy he will be a world beater. He really is an outstanding player, look up how many sacks Mathis had in his first 3 seasons, and Mathis was healthy. Turay is right there with Mathis, he needs to stay healthy.

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

A few thoughts.  I'd prefer to spread out the talent along the dline and not concentrate it in the middle.  So I'd prefer the other stud to be more of a three down DE. And in a 4-3, that guy should be about 6.4 270.  250 to 260 pound DEs are purely pass rushers, IMO.

 

Rock is not quick enough to tangle at the LOS then turn and run with the receiver for a long distance.  If we're going to draft corners like RYS, who are fine for a zone scheme, then we need to stop this idea of switching to man coverage.  I think RYS gets his penalties in deep coverage and gets beat deep because he's been tossed into man coverage down the field, IMO.  I'd have to look it up, but I wonder what his completion percentage and PI percentage is on shorter routes.  My guess is that they are noticeably lower.

You can press in cover 2 if you want.  He's getting beat over the top anyway.  

[DougDew]

Just now, Nickster said:

You can press in cover 2 if you want.  He's getting beat over the top anyway.  

I know, but he's not athletic enough to recover after pressing.  All but the top 5 NFL corners get beat over the top if they don't have over the top S help.  When RYS gets beat, it seems like the QB sees the S coverage not being there, so he gets picked on.  In cover 2, the S is supposed to be there and they are not when he is getting beat.  Either the S is messing up consistently or we are playing some sort of coverage that we don't have the talent to play.  I suspect the latter.

 

What you're asking for is enough talent to be physical in the LOS jam, support the run, then cover for a great distance.  That's capital invested in the corner position that isn't needed in a zone scheme, IMO.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I know, but he's not athletic enough to recover after pressing.  All but the top 5 NFL corners get beat over the top if they don't have over the top S help.  When RYS gets beat, it seems like the QB sees the S coverage not being there, so he gets picked on.  In cover 2, the S is supposed to be there and they are not when he is getting beat.  Either the S is messing up consistently or we are playing some sort of coverage that we don't have the talent to play.  I suspect the latter.

 

What you're asking for is enough talent to be physical in the LOS jam, support the run, then cover for a great distance.  That's capital invested in the corner position that isn't needed in a zone scheme, IMO.

 

Not all zone safeties play as well as Bethea did. I still felt Hooker had a greater free safety range than Blackmon but Blackmon's availability is greater.

 

Now watch Hooker go to a team that allows him to roam fine and ball out next year.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Not all zone safeties play as well as Bethea did. I still felt Hooker had a greater free safety range than Blackmon but Blackmon's availability is greater.

 

Now watch Hooker go to a team that allows him to roam fine and ball out next year.

Hooker had value when he was back there protecting the deep ball.  Remember seeing many short/ intermediate completions and tackles where Hooker wasn't even in the screen he was so far back.  Then when he would line up closer to the LOS, he'd get beat deep.  I guess I'm saying it has less to do with the talent of the S than where he lines up, JMO.

 

My beef about the secondary is that I think we are playing coverages that we don't have the talent to play.  Play cover 2, contest catches as much as you can but keep everything underneath and make the tackle quickly.

 

Switching to man coverage 35% of the time simply means our dbs are going to get burnt 35% of the time, and I think that's what QBs are seeing with RYS.  I never a see a safety anywhere and I think its a scheme thing, not that we don't have talented zone safeties.

 

Having said that, I don't think Willis is the zone safety I want.  Put some weigh on him and make him an underneath S/LB hybrid and then go get another Blackmon in the second or third round, or sign a FA.  Or see what Tell can do as the more "free" safety in a cover two and save the capital.

[Nickster]

38 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I know, but he's not athletic enough to recover after pressing.  All but the top 5 NFL corners get beat over the top if they don't have over the top S help.  When RYS gets beat, it seems like the QB sees the S coverage not being there, so he gets picked on.  In cover 2, the S is supposed to be there and they are not when he is getting beat.  Either the S is messing up consistently or we are playing some sort of coverage that we don't have the talent to play.  I suspect the latter.

 

What you're asking for is enough talent to be physical in the LOS jam, support the run, then cover for a great distance.  That's capital invested in the corner position that isn't needed in a zone scheme, IMO.

Well this is where Hooker is being missed too.  Blackmon flashed and has played well usually with the ball in front of him, but he is not good in deep coverage.  As in he sucks at it.

[Nickster]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Hooker had value when he was back there protecting the deep ball.  Remember seeing many short/ intermediate completions and tackles where Hooker wasn't even in the screen he was so far back.  Then when he would line up closer to the LOS, he'd get beat deep.  I guess I'm saying it has less to do with the talent of the S than where he lines up, JMO.

 

My beef about the secondary is that I think we are playing coverages that we don't have the talent to play.  Play cover 2, contest catches as much as you can but keep everything underneath and make the tackle quickly.

 

Switching to man coverage 35% of the time simply means our dbs are going to get burnt 35% of the time, and I think that's what QBs are seeing with RYS.  I never a see a safety anywhere and I think its a scheme thing, not that we don't have talented zone safeties.

 

Having said that, I don't think Willis is the zone safety I want.  Put some weigh on him and make him an underneath S/LB hybrid and then go get another Blackmon in the second or third round, or sign a FA.  Or see what Tell can do as the more "free" safety in a cover two and save the capital.

 

Quit exaggerating.  It's only 34.6% of the time.  

 

I don't think we have personnel to play man or blitz often like many posters her clamor for.   If you don't do either much, then sometimes you can force a turnover when you switch it up.   

[shasta519]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Hooker had value when he was back there protecting the deep ball.  Remember seeing many short/ intermediate completions and tackles where Hooker wasn't even in the screen he was so far back.  Then when he would line up closer to the LOS, he'd get beat deep.  I guess I'm saying it has less to do with the talent of the S than where he lines up, JMO.

 

My beef about the secondary is that I think we are playing coverages that we don't have the talent to play.  Play cover 2, contest catches as much as you can but keep everything underneath and make the tackle quickly.

 

Switching to man coverage 35% of the time simply means our dbs are going to get burnt 35% of the time, and I think that's what QBs are seeing with RYS.  I never a see a safety anywhere and I think its a scheme thing, not that we don't have talented zone safeties.

 

Having said that, I don't think Willis is the zone safety I want.  Put some weigh on him and make him an underneath S/LB hybrid and then go get another Blackmon in the second or third round, or sign a FA.  Or see what Tell can do as the more "free" safety in a cover two and save the capital.

 

That was (and still is) my hope for Tell...that they would utilize him as a starting S. He's tall, has long arms, can jump out of the building, has good (maybe even great) ball skills...and his closing speed and agility are incredible. He's a perfect fit for zone coverage.

 

The only potential concerns are long speed (less important in zone) and that he might be a bit undersized and have issues tackling well enough to play S at the NFL level. But last season...he didn't miss a tackle and even had a FF...he looked more than capable. He and Blackmon could be dynamic duo back there.

 

But what makes Tell a great fit at S also makes him a great fit as a zone CB...and right now...they probably need one of those more than another S. I just wish he had played this season...because I think he would be breaking out right now.