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BleedBlu8792

BleedBlu8792 638

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2 hours ago, MTC said:

How/why is TJ Leaf still on this team? He's awful. 

 

The Pacers really need a true PF... TJ, as you said, being the next guy off the bench, let alone starting, just isn't going to cut it. Sabonis and Bitadze at the 5, I'm more than comfortable with, even if they have to play together like they did late in the game tonight, but that 4 spot is a major weakness.  

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21isSuperman

One good performance doesn't negate a career of underwhelming performances.   He's still averaging less than 12 points and 7 rebounds this year despite being a starting 6'11" C with nearly 3

MTC

Did anyone here watch the press conference with Malcolm Brogdon? Really seems like a nice guy with strong character and leadership. 

oldunclemark

Terry Rozier got $58 mil for 3 years.....19.3 a year ..and we got Malcolm Brogdon for 21 mil a year   I think we might've gotten a better deal...

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Bluefire4

Bluefire4 403

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Thank goodness we have an easy schedule right now with all the injuries that have been piling up. Now we have until Saturday to rest up and hopefully we get back Brogdon, Lamb, and McConnell in the process.

 

It will be interesting to see how the guard position plays out when we get everybody healthy. Both McConnell and Sumner were playing well before their injuries, and now Aaron Holiday has found his rhythm while playing more minutes.

 

You know Brogdon and Oladipo are starting. Jeremy Lamb will get one of the backup guard spots. I wonder who will be kicked out of the rotation.

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BleedBlu8792

BleedBlu8792 638

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31 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

12.6 points and 6.3 rebounds in over 30 minutes of action per game so far this season for Turner.  Can they just trade him already while his value is still decently high?  He's so unbelievably soft

 

I'd love to send him and a first, hell probably more, to NY for Julius Randle. The money is relatively close and we really need a strong 4 next to Sabonis. 

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BleedBlu8792

BleedBlu8792 638

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And the last 2 minutes of the game tonight was awful. Warren had the hot hand and he drives and turns the ball over. Shoot the ball, that's a routine 10 footer. Brogdon got dribble happy, and indecisive, which he does at times. Lamb also had turnovers that just can't happen in a close game, late, like that. AND that last inbounds play, that should have been a 5 second violation, was absolutely bad. 9 seconds and you're trying to inbound the ball to Myles? Come on Nate. Whoever drew up that play needs smacked on the head with the play board. That just can't happen...

 

 

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21isSuperman

21isSuperman 998

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11 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

And the last 2 minutes of the game tonight was awful. Warren had the hot hand and he drives and turns the ball over. Shoot the ball, that's a routine 10 footer. Brogdon got dribble happy, and indecisive, which he does at times. Lamb also had turnovers that just can't happen in a close game, late, like that. AND that last inbounds play, that should have been a 5 second violation, was absolutely bad. 9 seconds and you're trying to inbound the ball to Myles? Come on Nate. Whoever drew up that play needs smacked on the head with the play board. That just can't happen...

Yeah, the end of that game was ugly.  While the Pacers have a good record, they haven't really beaten any good teams.   They've beaten teams like Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, and Orlando.  This team is not as good as the record indicates.  There's a decent amount of talent on the roster, but the team is at the "good, but not great" level. 

 

Two things that could help that change would be trading Turner, and firing Nate.  It's obviously not as easy as simply saying trade this guy and fire this guy because you have to get a good return on your trade with Turner and hire a better coach.  I don't know a lot about the head coaching candidates, but there are several guys who have been getting a lot of buzz, like Jay Wright and Jerry Stackhouse.  Larry Bird fired Vogel because "players tune a coach out after 3 years".  If that's the case, this should be McMillan's last season here.

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21isSuperman

21isSuperman 998

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11 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

I'd love to send him and a first, hell probably more, to NY for Julius Randle. The money is relatively close and we really need a strong 4 next to Sabonis. 

His stat line is really pathetic.

 

Stats per 36 mins:

Myles Turner: 13.6 points, 6.9 rebounds, 2.8 blocks, 1.2 assists, 2.0 turnovers, 13.2 PER

Goga Bitadze: 12.7 points, 9.1 rebounds, 3.3 blocks, 2.5 assists, 1.6 turnovers, 15.2 PER

 

When a high draft pick with tons of size, speed, and athleticism and multiple years of NBA experience is pretty much getting outplayed by a rookie with 14 total NBA games under his belt, that's a huge problem.  Turner needs to be traded now while his value is still high.  Rim protection (which Bitadze can also provide) isn't important enough to hold this team back by keeping Turner on the roster

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BleedBlu8792

BleedBlu8792 638

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2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Yeah, the end of that game was ugly.  While the Pacers have a good record, they haven't really beaten any good teams.   They've beaten teams like Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, and Orlando.  This team is not as good as the record indicates.  There's a decent amount of talent on the roster, but the team is at the "good, but not great" level. 

 

Two things that could help that change would be trading Turner, and firing Nate.  It's obviously not as easy as simply saying trade this guy and fire this guy because you have to get a good return on your trade with Turner and hire a better coach.  I don't know a lot about the head coaching candidates, but there are several guys who have been getting a lot of buzz, like Jay Wright and Jerry Stackhouse.  Larry Bird fired Vogel because "players tune a coach out after 3 years".  If that's the case, this should be McMillan's last season here.

 

I really hated to see Brian Shaw go as an assistant. He'd be the first guy I'd look to for HC if he wanted it. 

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RockThatBlue

RockThatBlue 1,320

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6 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

His stat line is really pathetic.

 

Stats per 36 mins:

Myles Turner: 13.6 points, 6.9 rebounds, 2.8 blocks, 1.2 assists, 2.0 turnovers, 13.2 PER

Goga Bitadze: 12.7 points, 9.1 rebounds, 3.3 blocks, 2.5 assists, 1.6 turnovers, 15.2 PER

 

When a high draft pick with tons of size, speed, and athleticism and multiple years of NBA experience is pretty much getting outplayed by a rookie with 14 total NBA games under his belt, that's a huge problem.  Turner needs to be traded now while his value is still high.  Rim protection (which Bitadze can also provide) isn't important enough to hold this team back by keeping Turner on the roster

He had 3 points and 3 rebounds last night lol. 

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The Fish

The Fish 921

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I suppose I can now begin to pay half hearted attention to the Pacers..

 

Fire Nate, Trade Myles you all say? Fine by me. I thought that last year when the team wasn't sure if it wanted to keep the far superior player in Domas because of Turner. He's a good defender, but his offensive game is so herky jerky and not productive.  

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Bluefire4

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I'm getting to the point where I hope the Pacers trade Myles Turner so you guys can see just how far our defensive ratings tank and you see how big of a mistake it will be when he goes to a team that lets him shoot 8 3s a game and continue being an elite rim protector against 90% of the league.

 

We have plenty of scorers. We only need Myles to block shots and play defense. Goga is not ready and will be fouled out of every game if he's playing more than 15 minutes.

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Bluefire4

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On 12/1/2019 at 10:02 AM, 21isSuperman said:

Yeah, the end of that game was ugly.  While the Pacers have a good record, they haven't really beaten any good teams.   They've beaten teams like Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, and Orlando.  This team is not as good as the record indicates.  There's a decent amount of talent on the roster, but the team is at the "good, but not great" level. 

 

Two things that could help that change would be trading Turner, and firing Nate.  It's obviously not as easy as simply saying trade this guy and fire this guy because you have to get a good return on your trade with Turner and hire a better coach.  I don't know a lot about the head coaching candidates, but there are several guys who have been getting a lot of buzz, like Jay Wright and Jerry Stackhouse.  Larry Bird fired Vogel because "players tune a coach out after 3 years".  If that's the case, this should be McMillan's last season here.

I'm really confused with the fire Nate McMillan crowd after every loss. It's getting annoying. People are really acting like we have a record like the Knicks. Our best player has been out all season and we are 12-7. I don't care who we are playing, that deserves credit.

 

Especially when you see a team like the Bulls with all the talent they have constantly underachieving. We took LeBron's Cavs 7 games in 2017, last year we lost Oladipo and still played our way to the 5th seed, and this year we have a better record than we did through 19 games last year.

 

Every coach has flaws, but I don't see us doing much better with anybody else.

 

 

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21isSuperman

21isSuperman 998

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2 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

I'm really confused with the fire Nate McMillan crowd after every loss. It's getting annoying. People are really acting like we have a record like the Knicks. Our best player has been out all season and we are 12-7. I don't care who we are playing, that deserves credit.

 

Especially when you see a team like the Bulls with all the talent they have constantly underachieving. We took LeBron's Cavs 7 games in 2017, last year we lost Oladipo and still played our way to the 5th seed, and this year we have a better record than we did through 19 games last year.

 

Every coach has flaws, but I don't see us doing much better with anybody else.

 

 

My point is that our record is not indicative of how good this team is.

 

Against teams currently at or below .500, the Pacers are 11-4.

Against teams above .500, the Pacers are 1-3.

 

The Pacers are beating up on weaker teams, but can't beat the contenders.  To me, McMillan is the same level of coach as the team currently is: good, but not great.  I certainly think there are better options available.  The only time McMillan has made it beyond the first round in the playoffs in his entire coaching career was 2004-2005.  Every other year, he's either missed the playoffs, or been eliminated in the first round.  His career playoff record is 17-32; his Indy playoff record is 3-12, including 2 sweeps in 3 years.  Frank Vogel was fired despite more playoff wins, a better playoff win percentage, and advancing further in the playoffs than McMillan ever did.  If that's enough to fire Vogel, McMillan should certainly be fired.

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BleedBlu8792

BleedBlu8792 638

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5 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

I'm getting to the point where I hope the Pacers trade Myles Turner so you guys can see just how far our defensive ratings tank and you see how big of a mistake it will be

 

They aren't going to tank, and he can't play defense anyways. Sorry, but chasing down backside defenders and getting blocks from behind isn't defense. Lebron does the same %, and gets called out on it so Myles shouldn't be an exception to that either. He's not athletic enough to guard the good 4's and to damn light/soft to guard the good 5's, so where is he playing defense? His whole body of work is average. 18M/yr for an 11 and 6 guy? At least the Pacers got a bargain for paying Sabonis that price. 

 

5 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

when he goes to a team that lets him shoot 8 3s a game and continue being an elite rim protector against 90% of the league.

 

He's not Durant. He has no business hanging out around the 3 pt line and taking "8 3s a game". I've mentioned numerous times, he has the ability to be a Garnett-type of player. The skill-set is there, but the soft * mentality is holding him WAY back. Until Myles lets his sack drop and he starts being the man among boys, he's going to continue being the same average Myles he's been the last 4 years. This is as good as it gets for him. He's literally the Jacoby Brissett of the Pacers. 

 

 

 

 

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Bluefire4

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4 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

My point is that our record is not indicative of how good this team is.

 

Against teams currently at or below .500, the Pacers are 11-4.

Against teams above .500, the Pacers are 1-3.

 

The Pacers are beating up on weaker teams, but can't beat the contenders.  To me, McMillan is the same level of coach as the team currently is: good, but not great.  I certainly think there are better options available.  The only time McMillan has made it beyond the first round in the playoffs in his entire coaching career was 2004-2005.  Every other year, he's either missed the playoffs, or been eliminated in the first round.  His career playoff record is 17-32; his Indy playoff record is 3-12, including 2 sweeps in 3 years.  Frank Vogel was fired despite more playoff wins, a better playoff win percentage, and advancing further in the playoffs than McMillan ever did.  If that's enough to fire Vogel, McMillan should certainly be fired.

First of all, how are we already claiming that this team can't beat contenders? We lost to the 76ers by 1 without Oladipo, and lost to the Bucks and Rockets with half of our team out.

 

Secondly, I didn't think Vogel deserved to be fired when he was either. It's not Vogel or McMillan's fault that they kept running into LeBron's super teams. We know Oladipo wasn't there for the past playoffs. 

 

If we had superior teams in the playoffs and were losing I would get wanting a coach fired. That has not been the case in the Nate McMillan era.

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Bluefire4

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51 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

They aren't going to tank, and he can't play defense anyways. Sorry, but chasing down backside defenders and getting blocks from behind isn't defense. Lebron does the same %, and gets called out on it so Myles shouldn't be an exception to that either. He's not athletic enough to guard the good 4's and to damn light/soft to guard the good 5's, so where is he playing defense? His whole body of work is average. 18M/yr for an 11 and 6 guy? At least the Pacers got a bargain for paying Sabonis that price. 

 

 

He's not Durant. He has no business hanging out around the 3 pt line and taking "8 3s a game". I've mentioned numerous times, he has the ability to be a Garnett-type of player. The skill-set is there, but the soft * mentality is holding him WAY back. Until Myles lets his sack drop and he starts being the man among boys, he's going to continue being the same average Myles he's been the last 4 years. This is as good as it gets for him. He's literally the Jacoby Brissett of the Pacers. 

 

 

 

 

We are 8th in defensive rating right now. Last year we were 3rd in defensive rating. I don't know who you are contributing this to, but it's clear if you're actually watching the games that Myles is the main reason for these rankings.

 

I didn't say the Pacers would tank if they traded Myles, I said our defensive rating would tank. I'm convinced you guys are just looking at stats now. Myles is not just blocking people from behind. He is making every shot tough in the paint for other teams and making them think twice about coming into the paint.

 

Myles has been trying to work on his body and post game for 4 years now. It's not working. That's just not the player he is. So many on here want him to be a 20 and 10 guy. It's just not going to happen.

 

We need to utilize the strengths he has now which are being able to defend every center in the league not named Joel Embiid or KAT, giving us elite rim protection, and taking his open 3's which he shoots at above 40%. That's how we get the best out of him.

 

That is still very impactful for this team. We have plenty of scorers.

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runthepost

runthepost 772

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Instead of box score watching you should look at the advance stats. Last year Myles was 3rd in field goal percentage difference at 8% lower than average. This years he’s at 6%. Why does he hang around the 3 point line? He’s a 40% shooter that’s why. 3>2

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21isSuperman

21isSuperman 998

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On 12/2/2019 at 11:14 PM, runthepost said:

Instead of box score watching you should look at the advance stats. Last year Myles was 3rd in field goal percentage difference at 8% lower than average. This years he’s at 6%. Why does he hang around the 3 point line? He’s a 40% shooter that’s why. 3>2

Sure, let's look at advanced stats.

 

Myles Turner advanced stats: .570 true shooting percentage, 13.9 PER, 10.6 total rebound percentage, 6.2 block percentage, 4.4 assist percentage, 0.116 win shares/48

Domantas Sabonis advanced stats: .571 TSP, 20.6 PER, 21.2 TRB, 1.2 BP, 16.3 AP, 0.179 WS/48

Goga Bitadze advanced stats: .552 TSP, 14.5 PER, 13.9 TRB, 7.9 BP, 9.2 AP, 0.146 WS/48

 

Of these guys and stats, Turner ranks last in PER, TRB, AP, and WS/48.  I know these aren't all the advanced stats, so I'm not trying to cherry pick my data here, but I think this gives the picture if you want to look at advanced stats.

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