Is Brady the luckiest qb ever ?

[GoPats]

15 minutes ago, Gramz said:

If I remember correctly, the roughing the passer came after a 3 and 10, and would have then been 4 and 10, but instead gave Pats a first down...and that drive resulted in a TD.

 

Article this morning...

 

Chris Jones is called for a phantom roughing the passer penalty

 

Situation: Second-and-7 on the New England 28-yard line, 7:10 to go in the fourth quarter

 

Score: Chiefs lead 21-17

 

Well, this is awkward. Earlier this week, I wrote about how there isn't much evidence of Tom Brady getting a disproportionate number of roughing the passer calls. So, several days later, Brady ... gets a shaky roughing the passer call when the Chiefs defensive lineman appeared to hit Brady in the shoulder, only to be called for a blow to the head. Thanks, refs.

 

It was a terrible call. I'd also point out that it's the fourth time Brady has benefited from a roughing the passer call in 1,002 postseason dropbacks since returning from his torn ACL in 2009, which is one penalty for every 250.5 dropbacks. Teams like the Cardinals and Vikings have benefited from roughing the passer penalties more frequently over that same time frame, and the mark is right in line with the Pats' regular-season average since 2009 (224.5 dropbacks per roughing the passer call). It was a bad call, but it's also not representative of special treatment for Brady in the postseason, as much as that one play might suggest otherwise.

 

 

From the same article...

 

J.C. Jackson commits pass interference on Watkins

 

Situation: Second-and-10 from the Chiefs' 37-yard line, 3:07 to go

 

Score: Patriots lead 24-21

 

Two plays earlier, Jackson helped push the ball downfield with a critical defensive holding penalty. The Chiefs got plenty of calls in their favor in the second half, although they'll mostly be forgotten in the years to come as people remember the Edelman review and the Jones foul. I'm not saying that to suggest that the calls were unwarranted, just that they mattered.

 

 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25813279/inside-16-crucial-plays-2018-nfl-conference-championship-games

[wizwor]

11 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Lucky? 

Really? 

How bout the games being rigged.

 

Hard to believe anyone really believes this.  Are the gambling houses (legit and not-so-legit) complicit or victims?  With most betting against a 'spread', even calls that do not assure a particular outcome cost people money.  That is why the NFL has so many people watching the games from New York.  Let's go back to the cheating meme.

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

13 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

BINGO! Penalty calls in particular. That's the primary reason I argue that games are rigged. You can't challenge penalties. It's what gives the refs their power and what makes it very suspicious they rig games when they miss easy calls that fit a narrative. Until that's changed, everyone should be suspicious of them.

 

So what this true when the Colts won the Super Bowl? How were the games steered in a way that the Colts won? How did it serve the league to have the Colts win? Wouldn't the league benefited more if Chicago the 3rd largest city in America won the Super Bowl? I just don't understand how someone could be a fan of a sport if they held this belief.

[IinD]

After having a good night's sleep, I still hate the Pats and don't feel bad even a little for KC or their fans.. Lol

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

So what this true when the Colts won the Super Bowl? How were the games steered in a way that the Colts won? How did it serve the league to have the Colts win? Wouldn't the league benefited more if Chicago the 3rd largest city in America won the Super Bowl? I just don't understand how someone could be a fan of a sport if they held this belief.

Admittedly, I'm more of a fan now because of fantasy football and the money I make from football. This year helped though with Ballard's amazing draft. I was 19 years old, just graduated from high school two years ago, and was heavily playing online poker and pokemon at the time more than watching football, so I don't remember that season as well as others on here. However, Manning was going to win one eventually. I don't remember the storylines for 2006, but they don't always come in anyway. That year, the best QB won the SB. Plain and simple. Peyton Manning winning is much more exciting than rex grossman.

[lollygagger8]

1 hour ago, Gramz said:

Something is clearly wrong when everyone at home, or at the game, even the commentators, see missed calls, or vice versa when a roughing the passer is called(when it clearly should not have been) and instead of changing possession ultimately results in a TD by the team that was Given a free pass. 

 

Why is it Everyone except the officials can get this right?   Are they incompetent, or is it a fix?   You tell me.

 

These refs either are really that dumb (we don't need announcements that the play clock is correct *even though he said erect* or stopped play so the refs can get their crap together on multiple occasions)

or they are getting calls from New York saying, call some bogus penalties because we gotta cover the spread. 

 

The refs literally pushed the pats right down the field. Just like when Philly got pushed down the field by the refs when the Colts played them.

 

None of these things are acceptable. 

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Admittedly, I'm more of a fan now because of fantasy football and the money I make from football. This year helped though with Ballard's amazing draft. I was 19 years old, just graduated from high school two years ago, and was heavily playing online poker and pokemon at the time more than watching football, so I don't remember that season as well as others on here. However, Manning was going to win one eventually. I don't remember the storylines for 2006, but they don't always come in anyone. That year, the best QB won the SB. Plain and simple. Peyton Manning winning is much more exciting than rex grossman.

 

Manning was going to win one eventually? Why's that? Because the league willed it so? Wouldn't it have been more exciting for the NFL to have Dan Marino win Super Bowls instead of QB's like Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, and Trent Dilfer? I just don't understand how anyone benefits from it being rigged the way some people here seem to believe that it is.

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

These refs either are really that dumb (we don't need announcements that the play clock is correct *even though he said erect* or stopped play so the refs can get their crap together on multiple occasions)

or they are getting calls from New York saying, call some bogus penalties because we gotta cover the spread. 

 

The refs literally pushed the pats right down the field. Just like when Philly got pushed down the field by the refs when the Colts played them.

 

None of these things are acceptable. 

Yeah. Still scratching head on that play clock announcement.  . They looked pretty silly on that.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Manning was going to win one eventually? Why's that? Because the league willed it so? Wouldn't it have been more exciting for the NFL to have Dan Marino win Super Bowls instead of QB's like Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, and Trent Dilfer? I just don't understand how anyone benefits from it being rigged the way some people here seem to believe that it is.

I was born in 1987, so I have little recollection of when or if they rigged games in Marino's time. I know boxing was rigged back in the 60s in the Ali/Liston days by the mafia, so it wouldn't surprise me if football was the same in those days. My first experience with a rigged game was in 2001 with the Pats. 9/11 happened and I told my uncle to bet on the Pats that day, if he won, he'd buy me a nintendo gamecube after the SB. When that happened, I started really getting into the darker side of gambling, including the rigging of games. My results turned out very well, so of course, i will continue to stand by that today.

[Cynjin]

29 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

I have to say, if he's not on steroids/performance enhancers, he's one of a small handful of pro athlete in the modern era to maintain his game for so long and most of his peers did use something...

 

I say he's got a fair portion of "lucky" to his story, though it's not all that (there's cheating too!), but seriously he's very good. The Seahawks should have ran the ball. The Falcons blowing a major lead was their own fault, they would have won if they'd have gotten a first down in the forth quarter.

The Tuck Rule game.(oh yeah, the coin flip yesterday) I'm sure I'm missing some, but I'm fine forgetting some of it. Won't miss em when their gone and I won't let the goofy media tell me other wise. 

 

There is definitely some luck involved, but they are a very well prepared team.  That and avocado ice-cream seems to do the trick.

[CoachLite]

1 hour ago, Gramz said:

Something is clearly wrong when everyone at home, or at the game, even the commentators, see missed calls, or vice versa when a roughing the passer is called(when it clearly should not have been) and instead of changing possession ultimately results in a TD by the team that was Given a free pass. 

 

Why is it Everyone except the officials can get this right?   Are they incompetent, or is it a fix?   You tell me.

Clearly, something is wrong. I don't think the refs intentionally bungle calls in order to assure one team has an advantage over another, but the system they use to assure quality rule enforcement is terrible - broken almost beyond repair. The NFL probably knows this, but they have failed to do anything about it. Remember Jeff Triplette? That makes me wonder, why?

[teganslaw]

1 hour ago, Gramz said:

If I remember correctly, the roughing the passer came after a 3 and 10, and would have then been 4 and 10, but instead gave Pats a first down...and that drive resulted in a TD.

I think you remember correctly, but why, then, couldn't the Chiefs stop the Patriots from scoring a touchdown? That falls on the defense. 

[Moosejawcolt]

I like most people are very envious of their success. My take away from yesterday and all the years of watching them? Lucky at times? Yes.  But man oh man, you just have to marvel at the machine they r.  From top to bottom, they to me r the best sports team in history.  

[PeterBowman]

12 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I like most people are very envious of their success. My take away from yesterday and all the years of watching them? Lucky at times? Yes.  But man oh man, you just have to marvel at the machine they r.  From top to bottom, they to me r the best sports team in history.  

they are definitely the best coached team the last near 20 years....that's BB for sure. 

[18to87]

6 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

 GOAT - so subjective. I’ll say this; Brady NEVER had to defeat BB. 

  He is a great QB but Montana not only never lost a SB, but never threw an int in them.

   I just hope somehow the Rams find a way to win. 

   If not, Brady will get another ring and inch closer to Itto Graham’s 7 Championships.

That is a good take. How can you be the GOAT QB if you never beat the GOAT coach who was coaching in your generation?

[Gramz]

2 hours ago, teganslaw said:

I think you remember correctly, but why, then, couldn't the Chiefs stop the Patriots from scoring a touchdown? That falls on the defense. 

Good point.  My point was......the game changed momentum at that point...

 

Why didn't the Pats Defense stop the Chiefs from tying and forcing overtime?

 

My guess is, both Defenses were spent.   As I said before, whoever won the coin toss was going to win, because both offenses were moving down the field.

 

Pats won the coin toss...game over.

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

24 minutes ago, 18to87 said:

That is a good take. How can you be the GOAT QB if you never beat the GOAT coach who was coaching in your generation?

 

How can you be the GOAT coach if you never had to defeat the GOAT QB?

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

How can you be the GOAT coach if you never had to defeat the GOAT QB?

BB beat Peyton alot so he did beat the GOAT QB.

[Gramz]

6 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

BB beat Peyton alot so he did beat the GOAT QB.

Vice versa at the end...and in AFC games.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Gramz said:

Vice versa at the end...and in AFC games.

Bingo! Peyton is the true GOAT nothing is gonna change my mind

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

BB beat Peyton alot so he did beat the GOAT QB.

 

 

I love Peyton and I love the Colts, but you can't seriously call Peyton the GOAT can you? I have Peyton as the 3rd greatest QB of all time. The thing that hurt Peyton was that he played during the same time and in the same conference as the GOAT. 

[chad72]

2 hours ago, teganslaw said:

I think you remember correctly, but why, then, couldn't the Chiefs stop the Patriots from scoring a touchdown? That falls on the defense. 

 

Yeah, if it was a 4th & 10, they'd still convert, it is Bob Sutton and his cushy zone defense. Remember, the Falcons had a 4th & 9 in the SB vs Brady and he converted. That is what he does if you do not bring pressure. 

 

Yes, great QBs are good vs the blitz but I'd rather go down swinging with a few occasional blitzes than sit back and let him take my D apart with the same plays. Peyton was good against the blitz, yet the Steelers came after him in the playoffs; same with the Ravens vs Brady. When the stakes are high, pressure on the QB has to be applied and a few hits later, the mental clock speeds up much more. 

[Gramz]

3 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

Article this morning...

 

Chris Jones is called for a phantom roughing the passer penalty

 

Situation: Second-and-7 on the New England 28-yard line, 7:10 to go in the fourth quarter

 

Score: Chiefs lead 21-17

 

Well, this is awkward. Earlier this week, I wrote about how there isn't much evidence of Tom Brady getting a disproportionate number of roughing the passer calls. So, several days later, Brady ... gets a shaky roughing the passer call when the Chiefs defensive lineman appeared to hit Brady in the shoulder, only to be called for a blow to the head. Thanks, refs.

 

It was a terrible call. 

I was mistaken on the 3rd and 10, and stand corrected.  I was however correct that that particular drive ended in a TD.  

 

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

6 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

I love Peyton and I love the Colts, but you can't seriously call Peyton the GOAT can you? I have Peyton as the 3rd greatest QB of all time. The thing that hurt Peyton was that he played during the same time and in the same conference as the GOAT. 

 

Peyton is the GOATest of the GOATs.

 

The Alpha Goat and the Omega Goat.

 

The GOATfather.

 

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Peyton is the GOATest of the GOATs.

 

The Alpha Goat and the Omega Goat.

 

The GOATfather.

 

He is in my book.  And in my book my opinion is the ONLY one that matters.

[Colts_Fan12]

12 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

 

I love Peyton and I love the Colts, but you can't seriously call Peyton the GOAT can you? I have Peyton as the 3rd greatest QB of all time. The thing that hurt Peyton was that he played during the same time and in the same conference as the GOAT. 

Umm I'm dead serious talent wise Brady cant hold Peyton's jock. Brady was lucky to have BB's system and a better team around him with defense.

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

3 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Umm I'm dead serious talent wise Brady cant hold Peyton's jock. Brady was lucky to have BB's system and a better team around him with defense.

 

Peyton put up some amazing numbers but Tom Brady is about to appear in his 9th Super Bowl. He's won more Super Bowls than Peyton even appeared in. If the object is to win then there really is no argument. When it comes to winning Peyton can't hold Tom's jock. You can claim coaching and system but Peyton had a HOF coach and had the autonomy to run what he wanted on the field. I despise the Patriots and will be rooting for the Rams to win the Super Bowl but I am objective enough to say that Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are the GOATS. That doesn't take anything away from my love of the Colts and Peyton Manning it's just the facts.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Peyton put up some amazing numbers but Tom Brady is about to appear in his 9th Super Bowl. He's won more Super Bowls than Peyton even appeared in. If the object is to win then there really is no argument. When it comes to winning Peyton can't hold Tom's jock. You can claim coaching and system but Peyton had a HOF coach and had the autonomy to run what he wanted on the field. I despise the Patriots and will be rooting for the Rams to win the Super Bowl but I am objective enough to say that Tom Brady and Bill Belichick are the GOATS. That doesn't take anything away from my love of the Colts and Peyton Manning it's just the facts.

I'm not ever going to use a team accomplishment when debating about single players its dumb 

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm not ever going to use a team accomplishment when debating about single players its dumb 

 

So is Drew Brees the GOAT? Because he will pass Manning in stats by the time he is done. So if it is about winning then it isn't Manning and using your logic it is about indiviual accomplishment then Drew Brees will statistically be the GOAT. Either way Manning isn't the GOAT. Very weak argument.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

So is Drew Brees the GOAT? Because he will pass Manning in stats by the time he is done. So if it is about winning then it isn't Manning and using your logic it is about indiviual accomplishment then Drew Brees will statistically be the GOAT. Either way Manning isn't the GOAT. Very weak argument.

Peyton was smarter than any QB ever could read a D better than anyone made mid and late round talent look amazing year in and year out he won a SB on 2 different teams hes just a better player he did more with less talent than any other player in history 

[GoPats]

13 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Peyton was smarter than any QB ever could read a D better than anyone made mid and late round talent look amazing year in and year out he won a SB on 2 different teams hes just a better player he did more with less talent than any other player in history 

 

Late round talent?

 

 

[coltsorioles]

Remember Brady's team won the super bowls not just brady. Football is the ultimate team game.   And this is why Peyton is not only better than Brady but much better.  Peyton misses the season colts go 2-14. Brady misses the season and the patriots go 11-5.    Denver wins the super bowl with Peyton , he retires and they dont even make the playoffs. Brady is suspected 4 games they go 3-1 beat 2 playoff teams and at Arizona without gronk as well. Brady has always had the better team with the best coach ever and reliable kicking and special teams

[Gramz]

Lol. This will never end.  

 

Someday their son's will probably be competing.   Calling it now. My money's on Marshall.  

[GoPats]

5 minutes ago, coltsorioles said:

Remember Brady's team won the super bowls not just brady. Football is the ultimate team game.   And this is why Peyton is not only better than Brady but much better.  Peyton misses the season colts go 2-14. Brady misses the season and the patriots go 11-5.    Denver wins the super bowl with Peyton , he retires and they dont even make the playoffs. Brady is suspected 4 games they go 3-1 beat 2 playoff teams and at Arizona without gronk as well. Brady has always had the better team with the best coach ever and reliable kicking and special teams

 

“I love that Serena Williams won the Australian Open while carrying a child. I mean, that’s even more impressive than two years ago when the Denver Broncos’ defense won the Super Bowl while carrying me.”

 

- Peyton Manning

 

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2017/07/13/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-defense-carried-super-bowl/

[Gramz]

6 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

“I love that Serena Williams won the Australian Open while carrying a child. I mean, that’s even more impressive than two years ago when the Denver Broncos’ defense won the Super Bowl while carrying me.”

 

- Peyton Manning

 

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2017/07/13/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-defense-carried-super-bowl/

Sounds like him!  He has a great sense of humor and can poke fun of himself with the best of them.  Love him!

[Colts_Fan12]

I didn't even bring up Peyton's record league MVPs lol based on pure talent and not bringing up team stats and awards Peyton is the better player. I'll never change my mind. Also didnt bring up the Pats always winning when Brady is out like they dont even miss him lol

[Luck is Good]

I can understand the hate of Brady simply for the fact he’s Peyton’s greatest nemesis. But c’mon guys. Luckiest QB ever? No it’s greatest QB ever. The guy is unreal

[18to87]

1 hour ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

 

I love Peyton and I love the Colts, but you can't seriously call Peyton the GOAT can you? I have Peyton as the 3rd greatest QB of all time. The thing that hurt Peyton was that he played during the same time and in the same conference as the GOAT. 

 

This is cherry picking but it is stuff like this that most people outside of Colts fans will never consider in the debate:

 

 

[18to87]

11 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I can understand the hate of Brady simply for the fact he’s Peyton’s greatest nemesis. But c’mon guys. Luckiest QB ever? No it’s greatest QB ever. The guy is unreal

Luck plays a huge role in it. Remember McGinest faking an injury? Cost the Colts HFA. Remember Nick Harper being stabbed by his wife? When PM was with the Broncos, how about Raheem Moore?  
On the other hand, we have Dee Ford, Seattle and Atlanta not running the ball, three rings during the Spygate era while having a GOAT defense, the dropped INT by Atlanta that Edelman somehow caught, Lee Evans...the list just goes on. Let's not forget the Pats win playoff games when Brady is one of the worst players on the field. 

[coltsorioles]

11 minutes ago, 18to87 said:

Luck plays a huge role in it. Remember McGinest faking an injury? Cost the Colts HFA. Remember Nick Harper being stabbed by his wife? When PM was with the Broncos, how about Raheem Moore?  
On the other hand, we have Dee Ford, Seattle and Atlanta not running the ball, three rings during the Spygate era while having a GOAT defense, the dropped INT by Atlanta that Edelman somehow caught, Lee Evans...the list just goes on. Let's not forget the Pats win playoff games when Brady is one of the worst players on the field. 

Let's not forget about vanderjact missing 2 crucial field goals , where as vinietari made every important kick.