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Is Brady the luckiest qb ever ?

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2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Peyton was smarter than any QB ever could read a D better than anyone made mid and late round talent look amazing year in and year out he won a SB on 2 different teams hes just a better player he did more with less talent than any other player in history 

 

Less talent? WTH are you talking about? Marshall Faulk - 1st round pick HOF player, Marvin Harrison - 1st round pick HOF player, Reggie Wayne - 1st round pick will probably be a HOF, Edgerrin James - 1st round pick and has been a HOF Finalist, Dallas Clark- 1st round pick. Sir you must have watched a different Colts team than I did because the one I remember watching was loaded with talent for Manning to use. The only HOF player that Brady had if my memory serves me correctly was Randy Moss. I'm sure Gronk will probably be a HOF player in the future but the way you make it sound Manning had nothing but chumps to work with and that just isn't the case. I like Peyton Manning. He is my 2nd favorite Colt of all time but let's not let sentimentality get in the way of facts.

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1 hour ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

I like Peyton Manning. He is my 2nd favorite Colt of all time but let's not let sentimentality get in the way of facts.

 

Peyton has 5 MVPs, which is an individual accomplishment.

 

SBs are team accomplishments.

 

BB is the GOAT for HCs.  Peyton is the GOAT for players.

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12 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

 GOAT - so subjective. I’ll say this; Brady NEVER had to defeat BB. 

  He is a great QB but Montana not only never lost a SB, but never threw an int in them.

   I just hope somehow the Rams find a way to win. 

   If not, Brady will get another ring and inch closer to Itto Graham’s 7 Championships.

I never understand how people equate 4-0 being better than 5-3.. I mean in 17 years he has:

 

15:  number of AFCE Winners (88%)

13:  AFCCG Appearances (76%)

9:  AFC Championships/ SB Appearances (53%)

 

5: SB wins (possibly 6) 

 

how can you say Montana is better based off those stats?  He played with Jerry Rice for all those championships and had the same cast around him all the time..  

 

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55 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Peyton has 5 MVPs, which is an individual accomplishment.

 

SBs are team accomplishments.

 

BB is the GOAT for HCs.  Peyton is the GOAT for players.

Brady has 2 league MVPS, and 3 SB MVPs.. Peyton and Brady are pretty much equals and I have always said Manning would have won more if he had a GM and coach that focused putting a full team around him instead of just O talent.

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2 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

I mean in 17 years his team led by BB has:

 

15:  number of AFCE Winners (88%)

13:  AFCCG Appearances (76%)

9:  AFC Championships/ SB Appearances (53%)

 

5: SB wins (possibly 6) 

 

fixed it for ya

 

2 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

Brady has 2 league MVPS, and 3 SB MVPs.. Peyton and Brady are pretty much equals and I have always said Manning would have won more if he had a GM and coach that focused putting a full team around him instead of just O talent.

 

Peyton has 5 + 1, and he did it without BB.  He also took 4 HCs to the SB and won with 2 different HCs, none of whom were BB.

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1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

fixed it for ya

 

 

Peyton has 5 + 1, and he did it without BB.  He also took 4 HCs to the SB and won with 2 different HCs, none of whom were BB.

BB has never ever won anything without Brady... not in Cleveland and was 4-12 and 0-2 with Bledsoe here and on the hot seat.  Then Brady came in and BAM.. 

 

Please! I can also say Manning won his MVPS because the Colts surrounded him with O talent but because they did that they doomed him and the team to playoff failure. Yes he put up gaudy stats in the regular season but when the competition got tough and he was still forced to do it all they failed as well even superstar WR can’t do it all the time. (Let’s be honest MVP all about stats not W and playing the game all personal stats effected by talent around you.. and no one would ever say Brady has talent around him like Manning, the one year he did he broke records..)

 

again i think Manning is a great all time QB and him and Brady are 1 and 1 a.. 

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3 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

I can also say Manning won his MVPS because the Colts surrounded him with O talent but because they did that they doomed him and the team to playoff failure.

 

But then you'd have to use the same excuse for Bradys' MVPs. (Hello Randy Moss)

 

AND the excuse that Brady was surrounded by good enough defenses to win SBs, taking credit away from him as an individual.

 

5 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

i think Manning is a great all time QB and him and Brady are 1 and 1 a

 

I think Manning is 1 and Brady is not.  :dunno:

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2 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Less talent? WTH are you talking about? Marshall Faulk - 1st round pick HOF player, Marvin Harrison - 1st round pick HOF player, Reggie Wayne - 1st round pick will probably be a HOF, Edgerrin James - 1st round pick and has been a HOF Finalist, Dallas Clark- 1st round pick. Sir you must have watched a different Colts team than I did because the one I remember watching was loaded with talent for Manning to use. The only HOF player that Brady had if my memory serves me correctly was Randy Moss. I'm sure Gronk will probably be a HOF player in the future but the way you make it sound Manning had nothing but chumps to work with and that just isn't the case. I like Peyton Manning. He is my 2nd favorite Colt of all time but let's not let sentimentality get in the way of facts.

Umm yeah I'm talking about him making mid round WRs look great while they were here Collie Garcon and Stokley were all lifted by Peyton Manning. Not to mention Peyton had to piggyback his teams to the playoffs especially the D many years.

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Didn't read the entire thread, but to the OP, I don't just think he's the luckiest QB ever, he is one of the luckiest HUMANS ever.  I mean look at his life!  He was absolutely BLESSED with size and a cannon for an arm and TV good looks (or so my wife tells me).  Those are things you CANNOT work on, they are God-given to you.  Then factor in his work ethic, his smarts, his skills, his HC being probably the best of all-time, the knack he has for getting the right calls at the right time, playing in a historically bad division for his career, he has a supermodel for a wife that probably earns more than he does, etc.  I'm sure he's had his share of problems, BUT compared to most he absolutely has to be one of the luckiest humans to walk the planet.  I envy him very much so.

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46 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Umm yeah I'm talking about him making mid round WRs look great while they were here Collie Garcon and Stokley were all lifted by Peyton Manning. Not to mention Peyton had to piggyback his teams to the playoffs especially the D many years.

 

Oh cut the crap. Brady has had guys like Edelman, Troy Brown, Danny Amendola. These aren't exactly #1 picks. I can understand the argument that Manning had better regular season stats and more MVP's but this nonsense that he had inferior talent  around him is utterly ridiculous. I love the revisionist history I'm seeing here. Our defense had one or 2 Hall of Famers on it Freeny and Mathis. Bob Sanders was a heck of a player. The Colts had good teams, in fact, they had great teams. The 2000's Colts are the Atlanta Braves of the NFL. It's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm very proud of what the Colts did. Whether we like it or not, the Patriots were simply better. If we would have been in the NFC during the time period we would have probably played the Pats almost every year in the Super Bowl. Diminishing what others have done doesn't make us any better, it just makes us look silly.

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8 hours ago, 18to87 said:

That is a good take. How can you be the GOAT QB if you never beat the GOAT coach who was coaching in your generation?

Did Montana ever beat Bill Walsh who is considered  along with Bellichek as  one of the greatest ? Nope.  

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7 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Bingo! Peyton is the true GOAT nothing is gonna change my mind

I use to  on the Manning band wagon. That being said.  If u have Brady and Manning on 2 equal teams in the playoffs, I would take Brady hands down. 

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52 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Oh cut the crap. Brady has had guys like Edelman, Troy Brown, Danny Amendola. These aren't exactly #1 picks. I can understand the argument that Manning had better regular season stats and more MVP's but this nonsense that he had inferior talent  around him is utterly ridiculous. I love the revisionist history I'm seeing here. Our defense had one or 2 Hall of Famers on it Freeny and Mathis. Bob Sanders was a heck of a player. The Colts had good teams, in fact, they had great teams. The 2000's Colts are the Atlanta Braves of the NFL. It's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm very proud of what the Colts did. Whether we like it or not, the Patriots were simply better. If we would have been in the NFC during the time period we would have probably played the Pats almost every year in the Super Bowl. Diminishing what others have done doesn't make us any better, it just makes us look silly.

In not arguing about this anymore no one is gonna tell me Brady's system QB *** is better than Peyton Manning 

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8 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

In not arguing about this anymore no one is gonna tell me Brady's system QB *** is better than Peyton Manning 

 

Words of a defeated man. I'm just teasing. I really do enjoy the banter and sports talk. To me discussions like this are the whole reason for coming here. I've enjoyed this. I'm sure there will be things we agree on and things like this where we don't. I hope you know that to me all of this was good fun talking sports. Have a good night!

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This banter with who the better QB is between Brady or Manning is all opinions.

Was either one of them better than Marino, Fouts or Montana? No. They just happen to come into the league where the owners changed the game of football by adding rules to protect their franchise QBs.  These prima donna QBs sell tickets and that is the bottom line.

When calling any player the GOAT it is being narrow minded about the eras of the NFL. People tend to overlook things they never seen or remember.

Has there ever been a QB that was a more a complete player than lets say Sammy Baugh?

Sammy led the league in passing, as a punter and also in interceptions playing the defensive side of the game.

I only use this as an example.

 

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41 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Words of a defeated man. I'm just teasing. I really do enjoy the banter and sports talk. To me discussions like this are the whole reason for coming here. I've enjoyed this. I'm sure there will be things we agree on and things like this where we don't. I hope you know that to me all of this was good fun talking sports. Have a good night!

Its fine lol you have a good night as well 

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The GOAT is definitely a matter of opinion so nobody is right or wrong. I look at Stats, SB Wins/NFL Championship wins, Overall wins = Regular Season, and League MVP's, etc.. So I factor in everything. Wins are a team effort but a QB plays the most important role in those wins. I guess if one put these guys in any order they wouldn't be wrong = Brady, Montana, Peyton, Unitas, and Elway. I put Elway in that mix with the 4 others. I know many hate him in here but he belongs in this discussion IMO.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The GOAT is definitely a matter of opinion so nobody is right or wrong. I look at Stats, SB Wins/NFL Championship wins, Overall wins = Regular Season, and League MVP's, etc.. So I factor in everything. Wins are a team effort but a QB plays the most important role in those wins. I guess if one put these guys in any order they wouldn't be wrong = Brady, Montana, Peyton, Unitas, and Elway. I put Elway in that mix with the 4 others. I know many hate him in here but he belongs in this discussion IMO.

I would go Brady, Montana, Peyton, Elway, Marino. If Marino played in today's era, he'd be as good as Brady and Peyton. Only thing that keeps him down IMO is lack of a SB.

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2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I would go Brady, Montana, Peyton, Elway, Marino. If Marino played in today's era, he'd be as good as Brady and Peyton. Only thing that keeps him down IMO is lack of a SB.

Yeah Marino belongs in the discussion based on pure talent and Stats, not winning at least 1 SB though looks bad but alot of that wasn't his fault. He had no run game and weak defenses for a lot of years. You would think with Shula coaching him, he could've won at least 1.

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Winning a SB is huge for any QB's career, can not sugarcoat it. Fans and the media just look at you differently. I even think if a QB doesn't win at least one that the resume isn't complete. Nobody would look at Drew Brees the same without winning the one in the 2009 and he just passed Peyton for most Yards. The 2 SB's Eli won will be the main reason he makes the HOFame.

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10 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

 

I love Peyton and I love the Colts, but you can't seriously call Peyton the GOAT can you? I have Peyton as the 3rd greatest QB of all time. The thing that hurt Peyton was that he played during the same time and in the same conference as the GOAT. 

Aaron Rodgers plays in the NFC central silly

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23 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Marino belongs in the discussion based on pure talent and Stats, not winning at least 1 SB though looks bad but alot of that wasn't his fault. He had no run game and weak defenses for a lot of years. You would think with Shula coaching him, he could've won at least 1.

Brady, manning, Montana weren't winning a SB with those dolphins either.

 

brady will go down as the greatest QB ever,  but is he actually the best?  He's obviously up there, but I'm not convinced he's the best.

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4 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I never understand how people equate 4-0 being better than 5-3.. I mean in 17 years he has:

 

15:  number of AFCE Winners (88%)

13:  AFCCG Appearances (76%)

9:  AFC Championships/ SB Appearances (53%)

 

5: SB wins (possibly 6) 

 

how can you say Montana is better based off those stats?  He played with Jerry Rice for all those championships and had the same cast around him all the time..  

 

Plus, Montana was playing in an offense that changed the NFL.  Being drafted by bill Walsh at that time was like a golden ticket.

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6 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Brady, manning, Montana weren't winning a SB with those dolphins either.

 

brady will go down as the greatest QB ever,  but is he actually the best?  He's obviously up there, but I'm not convinced he's the best.

I am not 100% convinced that Brady is the GOAT either but tough to say he isn't when he has been to 9 SB's and won 5. Peyton has the ability to carry a bad team more IMO but when you factor everything in, he doesn't have the SB wins that Brady and Montana have. I get Bradshaw has also won 4 but his Stats were medicore unlike Brady's and Montana's. Jim Plunkett also won 2 SB's, how I have no idea lmao but his Stats were mediocre as well. One guy that never gets mentioned in the GOAT convo is Aikman with 3 SB wins, but he played on such a stacked team and his teams were run 1st mentality with Smith is why.

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Just now, BOTT said:

Brady, manning, Montana weren't winning a SB with those dolphins either.

 

brady will go down as the greatest QB ever,  but is he actually the best?  He's obviously up there, but I'm not convinced he's the best.

I dont see how anyone can be considered the GOAT when they were replaced by a terrible back up QB for a season and the team didn't miss a beat. Then that terrible backup gets a big contract to be the starter somewhere else and guess what he sucked. If all that doesn't scream system QB than idk what does.

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9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I dont see how anyone can be considered the GOAT when they were replaced by a terrible back up QB for a season and the team didn't miss a beat. Then that terrible backup gets a big contract to be the starter somewhere else and guess what he sucked. If all that doesn't scream system QB than idk what does.

That is a great point but without Brady they weren't going to the SB or winning it with Cassel. Like I have said many of time, if we did an all-time Draft in here I would probably take Peyton #1 because we are starting from scratch and Peyton is like a Coach and a QB. 

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11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is a great point but without Brady they weren't going to the SB or winning it with Cassel. Like I have said many of time, if we did an all-time Draft in here I would probably take Peyton #1 because we are starting from scratch and Peyton is like a Coach and a QB. 

I think he's good but the system helps him it's hard to argue with how easily he is replaced with back ups and they still win. 

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This should not have become a brady vs manning debate. Its old news and no-one agrees.

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4 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I dont see how anyone can be considered the GOAT when they were replaced by a terrible back up QB for a season and the team didn't miss a beat. Then that terrible backup gets a big contract to be the starter somewhere else and guess what he sucked. If all that doesn't scream system QB than idk what does.

Didn’t miss a beat? People keep pointing to 11-5  as the reason.. what they forget is 2 important things:

 

1. The team went 18-1 the year before (and if not for the. Football Gods 19-0) and that team was still intact minus a couple players.

 

2. They had an extremely easy schedule.

 

so actually 11-5 was a significant downgrade, also Cassel only had 21 TD compared to Brady’s 50 from a year before.  Oh and less we forget his best year was 2010  with 27 TD and a 93 QBR.

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9 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I never understand how people equate 4-0 being better than 5-3.. I mean in 17 years he has:

 

15:  number of AFCE Winners (88%)

13:  AFCCG Appearances (76%)

9:  AFC Championships/ SB Appearances (53%)

 

5: SB wins (possibly 6) 

 

how can you say Montana is better based off those stats?  He played with Jerry Rice for all those championships and had the same cast around him all the time..  

 

   Like I stated, I find the whole idea of “GOAT” to be subjective. It’s like asking who is the greatest actor, best drummer  or prettiest supermodel. 

   I will never say Brady isn’t among the best to ever play the game but Sunday was indicative of how his career has gone: a brilliant gameplan by Belichick, Brady having a decent game (he did throw two picks), great play by his Oline and defense and he’s in another SB.

  We get so caught up with individuals that we discount who is supporting them and Brady has always had Belichick and a top 11-12 defense.

  Let’s just agree he’s one of the best. The rest is simply opinion fueled by fans and media.

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14 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

   Like I stated, I find the whole idea of “GOAT” to be subjective. It’s like asking who is the greatest actor, best drummer  or prettiest supermodel. 

   I will never say Brady isn’t among the best to ever play the game but Sunday was indicative of how his career has gone: a brilliant gameplan by Belichick, Brady having a decent game (he did throw two picks), great play by his Oline and defense and he’s in another SB.

  We get so caught up with individuals that we discount who is supporting them and Brady has always had Belichick and a top 11-12 defense.

  Let’s just agree he’s one of the best. The rest is simply opinion fueled by fans and media.

GOAT talk is definitely subjective I agree. Some people think Dan Marino is the GOAT or Aaron Rodgers is. Those people base that opinion on pure talent at the QB position. Some do not factor in SB wins at all because Football is such a team sport. It's a matter of how much emphasis one puts on winning SB's, or Stats, or pure talent, or MVP's. I think it all needs to be factored in IMO.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

GOAT talk is definitely subjective I agree. Some people think Dan Marino is the GOAT or Aaron Rodgers is. Those people base that opinion on pure talent at the QB position. Some do not factor in SB wins at all because Football is such a team sport. It's a matter of how much emphasis one puts on winning SB's, or Stats, or pure talent, or MVP's. I think it all needs to be factored in IMO.

I'm the biggest Peyton Manning fan there is, but at some point, everyone on here has to admit that Brady is the best QB of all time. We are using the "subjective" term as a last line of defense to defend ourselves against it as Colts fans, but Brady is as good as or better than Manning in nearly every category. He's had seasons similar to Manning in the regular season, while destroying him record-wise in the postseason. Montana is 4-0 in the SB, but this Brady's 9th SB and he's already 5-3. He could win 6 in two weeks. He matches up favorably overall Vs any top QB of all time, and there's no denying it anymore.

 

Even if he had a perfect system for him, we can't just imagine Peyton being a Pat or whoever. The last 20 years are what they are in this universe and we can't change them. We can only go by what has happened for real and compare the numbers. Overall, Brady is the GOAT, and in this universe, the stats point that out. There is no twilight zone here.

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6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm the biggest Peyton Manning fan there is, but at some point, everyone on here has to admit that Brady is the best QB of all time. We are using the "subjective" term as a last line of defense to defend ourselves against it as Colts fans, but Brady is as good as or better than Manning in nearly every category. He's had seasons similar to Manning in the regular season, while destroying him record-wise in the postseason. Montana is 4-0 in the SB, but this Brady's 9th SB and he's already 5-3. He could win 6 in two weeks. He matches up favorably overall Vs any top QB of all time, and there's no denying it anymore.

 

Even if he had a perfect system for him, we can't just imagine Peyton being a Pat or whoever. The last 20 years are what they are in this universe and we can't change them. We can only go by what has happened for real and compare the numbers. Overall, Brady is the GOAT, and in this universe, the stats point that out. There is no twilight zone here.

When I do my list I have Brady 1, Montana 2, and Peyton 3 but where I contradict myself is, when I ask myself who I would take in an all-time Draft #1 when starting a franchise. I would take Peyton because I simply believe he could carry a bad team better compared to Brady or Montana. Peyton was a coach and a QB on the field. 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When I do my list I have Brady 1, Montana 2, and Peyton 3 but where I contradict myself is, when I ask myself who I would take in an all-time Draft #1 when starting a franchise. I would take Peyton because I simply believe he could carry a bad team better compared to Brady or Montana. Peyton was a coach and a QB on the field. 

Peyton always scared me as a kid. It was less noticeable when I was a teenager and I hadn't picked up his patterns yet, but he was a choke artist in the playoffs. I couldn't diagnose it at the time, but it's paralysis by analysis. If things weren't perfect, he'd get completely frazzled and screw up, and Belichick was a master of making him choke. I just wouldn't trust Peyton in the playoffs in an all-time draft. The goal is to win the SB, and Brady is clutch while being able to put up the numbers Peyton can. I'd go Brady, Montana, Marino, Peyton, Elway in an all-time draft. 

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4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Peyton always scared me as a kid. It was less noticeable when I was a teenager and I hadn't picked up his patterns yet, but he was a choke artist in the playoffs. I couldn't diagnose it at the time, but it's paralysis by analysis. If things weren't perfect, he'd get completely frazzled and screw up, and Belichick was a master of making him choke. I just wouldn't trust Peyton in the playoffs in an all-time draft. The goal is to win the SB, and Brady is clutch while being able to put up the numbers Peyton can. I'd go Brady, Montana, Marino, Peyton, Elway in an all-time draft. 

I don't know, Peyton was 3-1 in AFC Title Games vs BB and Brady. He may have several one done's but his record vs those guys in the big game was good. With Peyton you will always get 12 wins every year as well if he has any semblance of a good team around him.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't know, Peyton was 3-1 in AFC Title Games vs BB and Brady. He may have several one done's but his record vs those guys in the big game was good. With Peyton you will always get 12 wins every year as well if he has any semblance of a good team around him.

That's true. I just don't trust him in the playoffs. It was very frustrating losing all those times and seeing Brady make it almost every year. The all-time draft is subjective, but I just can't see how people can argue the GOAT anymore. My dad is 58, watched Elway's entire career as a Bronco fan, and he says Brady is the best. I just want him to retire so we can win a SB with Luck at some point. It's going to be hard enough beating the Chiefs.

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6 hours ago, BOTT said:

Aaron Rodgers plays in the NFC central silly

 

And? Remind me again how dominating he has been in the playoffs? Rodgers is so overhyped. I would be more nervous about Brees than Rodgers. Just being picky here but there is no NFC Central. The Packers are in the North.

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2 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

And? Remind me again how dominating he has been in the playoffs? Rodgers is the so overhyped. I would be more nervous about Brees than Rodgers. Just being picky here but there is no NFC Central. The Packers are in the North.

That is a great question, who is better all-time - Brees or Rodgers? Both have 1 SB win. Rodgers does have 2 MVP's, Brees 0. Brees is a little machine though.

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Tom Brady is BY FAR THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYED TO EVER STEP UNDER CENTER.  He wouldn't have a damn thing in his career if it wasnt for Belichick.  He is miles ahead of most coaches in the league. I hate the Patriots as much as the next true colts fan. But, I honestly believe that belichick could go out and sign almost anyone to play that spot and they will still make the playoffs. Yeah, they have benefitted in a bad division and all. But, it's like belichick has some sort of magic ball.

 

Now, to give a point to prove that anyone could step in for Brady and do close to the same thing he gets done. 

      -in OT, Brady threw the ball 9 times. Of those 9 throws I saw 1 pass that actually had  defender that was close enough to limit the damage. The one to Gronk on 3rd and 10. And the defender had no chance to stop the ball there. He was outside and behind A few steps. 3 for 3 on 3rd downs that drive. All at 3rd and long... 

     - BB lost brady for a season after like 1 quarter AND STILL won 11 games. Not to mention who he did it with at QB. (Cassell) 

Brady has never had a overly weak side of the team. The 2 seasons the true GOAT had a real kicker and a more than capable defense to challenge the other team he won 2 rings. Would have at least 3 if hank basket wasnt out messing around w/his favorite tranny the night before the biggest game of the year. Or Mike vanderjagt stopped drinking. 

     - and the very last point to prove that Brady is the luckiest player ever. The sea Seahawks didnt run the ball on the 2.

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6 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I dont see how anyone can be considered the GOAT when they were replaced by a terrible back up QB for a season and the team didn't miss a beat. Then that terrible backup gets a big contract to be the starter somewhere else and guess what he sucked. If all that doesn't scream system QB than idk what does.

 

If it is simply system then the Colts franchise as well as the other 30 are stupid for not switching systems. To say it is a system and the players don't matter is just simply a too simplistic view. If it was only system then shouldn't the Colts have switched to it since in your opinion Manning was better?

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