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Is Brady the luckiest qb ever ?

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11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is a great question, who is better all-time - Brees or Rodgers? Both have 1 SB win. Rodgers does have 2 MVP's, Brees 0. Brees is a little machine though.

 

This is what makes sports fun. We all have our opinions and it is (at least to me) fun to go back and forth and "argue" our cases. 

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

but at some point, everyone on here has to admit that Brady is the best QB of all time.

 

No we don't.

 

I admit he's a crucial member of the best dynasty of all time.  But I give more credit to BB for the dynasty than Brady.

 

If we're talking purely QB, Peyton is 1.  Then there's everyone else.

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18 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

No we don't.

 

I admit he's a crucial member of the best dynasty of all time.  But I give more credit to BB for the dynasty than Brady.

 

If we're talking purely QB, Peyton is 1.  Then there's everyone else.

Honestly, what is Peyton better than Brady in? Strictly as a QB, Brady and Peyton are equals in the regular season, record-wise and stats-wise for the most part. In the postseason, Brady crushes Peyton and is clutch, while Peyton chokes. You can give the credit to Belichick all you want, but Manning had Dungy with him for a lot of his career. If Brady was a "system" qb as a lot of people say, than a "system" qb was putting up similar stats to Peyton Manning with a worse offense. Again, you are using excuses like Belichick as a last line of defense. You take the hand you are given. If Brady was on the Colts, you'd be saying he was no1. It's team bias, and most people have it. Enough is enough though, it's his 9th SB. Quit being so petty.

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3 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

If it is simply system then the Colts franchise as well as the other 30 are stupid for not switching systems. To say it is a system and the players don't matter is just simply a too simplistic view. If it was only system then shouldn't the Colts have switched to it since in your opinion Manning was better?

Well the other 31 teams dont have BB and none of his assistants actually know his system like he does so hiring them wont work either. 

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3 hours ago, TB12isNOTHINGwithoutBB said:

Tom Brady is BY FAR THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYED TO EVER STEP UNDER CENTER.  He wouldn't have a damn thing in his career if it wasnt for Belichick.  He is miles ahead of most coaches in the league. I hate the Patriots as much as the next true colts fan. But, I honestly believe that belichick could go out and sign almost anyone to play that spot and they will still make the playoffs. Yeah, they have benefitted in a bad division and all. But, it's like belichick has some sort of magic ball.

 

Now, to give a point to prove that anyone could step in for Brady and do close to the same thing he gets done. 

      -in OT, Brady threw the ball 9 times. Of those 9 throws I saw 1 pass that actually had  defender that was close enough to limit the damage. The one to Gronk on 3rd and 10. And the defender had no chance to stop the ball there. He was outside and behind A few steps. 3 for 3 on 3rd downs that drive. All at 3rd and long... 

     - BB lost brady for a season after like 1 quarter AND STILL won 11 games. Not to mention who he did it with at QB. (Cassell) 

Brady has never had a overly weak side of the team. The 2 seasons the true GOAT had a real kicker and a more than capable defense to challenge the other team he won 2 rings. Would have at least 3 if hank basket wasnt out messing around w/his favorite tranny the night before the biggest game of the year. Or Mike vanderjagt stopped drinking. 

     - and the very last point to prove that Brady is the luckiest player ever. The sea Seahawks didnt run the ball on the 2.

He won 11 games on the 2nd weakest schedule.. and oh ya the team was pretty much intact from the year before when they went 16-0.  With Brady I dare say they repeat that feat again and that year go 19-0.

 

overly weak side? I’m not sure what that means? But outside of Moss in 07 name one HOF or even potential HOF WR Brady has had? Edelman? Everyone says he isn’t all that great.. Welker? He was at best average in Miami..

 

im not saying Brady didn’t benefit from BB, he did.  But so has BB, with Brady he never EVER had worry about the offensive side of the ball since 2003. He could focus on schemes and plans for the D While leaving Brady and the OC (Weis,O’Brien or McDaniels) to deal with the O. 

 

Brady elevated the WR he had/has around him.. The Colts did not do that with Manning they surrounded him with 1st round WR talent all the time.  Which IMO was silly he was good enough elevate average talent and they could have built a D and challenged the Pats a lot more than they did.

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

Well the other 31 teams dont have BB and none of his assistants actually know his system like he does so hiring them wont work either. 

 

Cleveland had Belichick and didn't do squat. He was 36-44 and his team made the playoffs one time. Why didn't his system work there? If it is the system and players don't matter then why doesn't Cleveland have Super Bowl trophies?

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1 minute ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Cleveland had Belichick and didn't do squat. He was 36-44 and his team made the playoffs one time. Why didn't his system work there? If it is the system and players don't matter then why doesn't Cleveland have Super Bowl trophies?

Cleveland bailed to early right as BB was getting things going they gave up on him

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2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Honestly, what is Peyton better than Brady in? Strictly as a QB, Brady and Peyton are equals in the regular season, record-wise and stats-wise for the most part. In the postseason, Brady crushes Peyton and is clutch, while Peyton chokes. You can give the credit to Belichick all you want, but Manning had Dungy with him for a lot of his career. If Brady was a "system" qb as a lot of people say, than a "system" qb was putting up similar stats to Peyton Manning with a worse offense. Again, you are using excuses like Belichick as a last line of defense. You take the hand you are given. If Brady was on the Colts, you'd be saying he was no1. It's team bias, and most people have it. Enough is enough though, it's his 9th SB. Quit being so petty.

Devils advocate, does it really matter or can argue he is if it's scripted?

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1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

Devils advocate, does it really matter or can argue he is if it's scripted?

Haha, I think we'd have to figure out 18 years of history on what's scripted lol. Brady is putting up a lot of the stats like Brady for real and the wins, I do believe a few of those SBs were scripted though. Especially the 2001 though with 9-11 happening and all that. I called that one as a 14 year old and made my uncle money where he bought me a nintendo gamecube.

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27 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Cleveland bailed to early right as BB was getting things going they gave up on him

 

5 years is a pretty long time to get a system in place. He had one winning season out of 5. He didn't get the job done in Cleveland plain and simple. Maybe the reason why is because he didn't have Tom Brady!

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12 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

5 years is a pretty long time to get a system in place. He had one winning season out of 5. He didn't get the job done in Cleveland plain and simple. Maybe the reason why is because he didn't have Tom Brady!

Well how does he always win without tom now  

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System QB or not... The defense has plug in play guys too.. so ya'll put two and two together... There D line has no names.. who were all over Mahomes. The CB's can play cover 0.. on the fastest WR in the league and not get burned once..

 

The Oline can block the best pass rushing teams flawlessly. Bosa, Ingram, Houston, Jones, Ford, probably altogether places 2 fingers on Brady.

 

How are the other coaches who came from belichick doing?

 

The only coach who takes away the other teams top guy every game. 

 

Malcolm who makes the superbowl clinching play. becomes a star. Then get benched for another superbowl. then booted from the team. His patriot backup has a career year..

 

So lucky... i will not say officially. But Tom Brady isn't the one kissing his own ***... it's every one else.. 

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

Well how does he always win without tom now  

 

What has he won without Tom Brady? He didn't make the playoffs when they went 11-5 with Cassel at QB. Which Super Bowl did the Patriots win that Tom Brady wasn't the QB? I'll make it easy for you. None of them. 

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13 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

What has he won without Tom Brady? He didn't make the playoffs when they went 11-5 with Cassel at QB. Which Super Bowl did the Patriots win that Tom Brady wasn't the QB? I'll make it easy for you. None of them. 

I don't think either would have this record without each other.

 

They're a dynamic duo.  I don't have to like it, or support it, but I can admit it.

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25 minutes ago, Gramz said:

I don't think either would have this record without each other.

 

They're a dynamic duo.  I don't have to like it, or support it, but I can admit it.

 

This I can agree with!

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46 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

What has he won without Tom Brady? He didn't make the playoffs when they went 11-5 with Cassel at QB. Which Super Bowl did the Patriots win that Tom Brady wasn't the QB? I'll make it easy for you. None of them. 

But when Peyton was out we got the 1st overall pick. One misses a season and they suck the other misses a season and they go 11-5 seems like better talent coaching and a system to me. Had peyton had BB I bet he wins 10 or more SBs.

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

But when Peyton was out we got the 1st over all pick. One misses a season and they suck the other misses a season and they go 11-5 seems like better talent coaching and a system to me. Had peyton had BB I bet he wins 10 or more SBs

 

Shame on Bill Polian for not having a viable backup in place at QB. The ghost of Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter are a far cry from Matt Cassel, Jimmy G, and Jacoby Brissett.  

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16 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I never understand how people equate 4-0 being better than 5-3..

 

how can you say Montana is better based off those stats?  He played with Jerry Rice for all those championships and had the same cast around him all the time..  

 

 

Jerry Rice, who was illegally using stick'em the whole time! Haha...

 

Seriously though, I never understood this argument. Somehow it's better to be eliminated earlier in the playoffs?

Montana was 16-7 in the postseason (includes 2-2 record with KC). I think he had at least three one-and-dones. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Shame on Bill Polian for not having a viable backup in place at QB. The ghost of Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter are a far cry from Matt Cassel, Jimmy G, and Jacoby Brissett.  

Is Matt Cassell really on another level compared to previous Colts backups? I'm not so sure. 

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5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If Brady was on the Colts, you'd be saying he was no1. It's team bias, and most people have it. Enough is enough though, it's his 9th SB. Quit being so petty.

 

Manning did in Denver what he did here in Indy, and if he had been a Cleveland Brown his entire career, he would have done the same thing and still gone down as the greatest QB ever in my book.  FWIW, I like other QBs more than I like Manning personality-wise and talent-wise, but Peyton played QB better than anyone else, ever.

 

I could go on forever about why Manning is the best to ever play QB, and it wouldn't be petty against Brady.  It would just be the same things you're going to hear from any former defender that had to play against Peyton.

 

He's the most football-intelligent QB to ever run an offense.  Period.

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6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's true. I just don't trust him in the playoffs. It was very frustrating losing all those times and seeing Brady make it almost every year. The all-time draft is subjective, but I just can't see how people can argue the GOAT anymore. My dad is 58, watched Elway's entire career as a Bronco fan, and he says Brady is the best. I just want him to retire so we can win a SB with Luck at some point. It's going to be hard enough beating the Chiefs.

See the tweet I posted on a previous page. It shows that Brady has had 11 wins in the playoffs when playing poorly (maybe the worst player on his team that day) while in another 11 games Manning puts up better numbers and loses. Yes, Brady has had games where he executes late and wins in the playoffs, but he would have been sitting at home on the couch for many of those had he had the same playoff luck/support from teammates as Manning and Brees. 

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3 minutes ago, 18to87 said:

Is Matt Cassell really on another level compared to previous Colts backups? I'm not so sure. 

 

I'm not saying Matt Cassell was All Pro, but statistically speaking he was better than both Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/curtispainter/81300/careerstats

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/kerrycollins/2500150/careerstats

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/mattcassel/2506562/careerstats

 

Just look at the stats for the years that Cassell played for Brady (2008) and that Collins and Painter played for Manning (2011). For a career, Kerry Collins was a better NFL QB than Cassell, but by the time he was a Colt he was not the same QB he was with the Panthers.

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29 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Manning did in Denver what he did here in Indy, and if he had been a Cleveland Brown his entire career, he would have done the same thing and still gone down as the greatest QB ever in my book.  FWIW, I like other QBs more than I like Manning personality-wise and talent-wise, but Peyton played QB better than anyone else, ever.

 

I could go on forever about why Manning is the best to ever play QB, and it wouldn't be petty against Brady.  It would just be the same things you're going to hear from any former defender that had to play against Peyton.

 

He's the most football-intelligent QB to ever run an offense.  Period.

Then why is it that per a poll most defenders don’t want to face Brady more than any other QB?  Most of them played Manning and they all fear Brady more.. why is that? Exactly because when the chips are on the line he goes to a different level.

 

Mannibg is great, and I have him as 1b myself but people trying state “well any defender faced Manning” is just well poop! Because they ALL had face Brady and usually got their butts kicked by him.. not so with Manning esp in the playoffs. You see be the best you have to elevate your game when it counts most. How many 4th quarter comebacks did Peyton have in the playoffs?

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9 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

The article is actually a quick but good read that compares the 2 QB's.

 

That article doesn't even mention league MVPs...  :thinking:

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16 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

Then why is it that per a poll most defenders don’t want to face Brady more than any other QB?  Most of them played Manning and they all fear Brady more.. why is that? Exactly because when the chips are on the line he goes to a different level.

 

Mannibg is great, and I have him as 1b myself but people trying state “well any defender faced Manning” is just well poop! Because they ALL had face Brady and usually got their butts kicked by him.. not so with Manning esp in the playoffs. You see be the best you have to elevate your game when it counts most. How many 4th quarter comebacks did Peyton have in the playoffs?

Prolly cause they know Kraft is paying the officials every game 

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7 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

That article doesn't even mention league MVPs...  :thinking:

Also how many damn games did peyton get us in position to win and the D blow it

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9 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

That article doesn't even mention league MVPs...  :thinking:

 

But it does mention Super Bowls. I guarantee you Manning would trade the MVP's for Super Bowls without a second thought. Going along with your line of thought it also leaves out Super Bowl MVP's of which Brady has a 4-1 advantage in that category.

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14 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

But it does mention Super Bowls. I guarantee you Manning would trade the MVP's for Super Bowls without a second thought. Going along with your line of thought it also leaves out Super Bowl MVP's of which Brady has a 4-1 advantage in that category.

 

The point is the article is an incomplete comparison.  So is just looking at SB MVPs.  Or just stats.  Especially just SB wins.  Their careers are comparable in every way when looking at the whole picture.

 

But Peyton is the most football-intelligent QB to ever play.  Period.

 

And that's the one thing where nobody ever tries to say Brady has the advantage because it has nothing to do with teammates, HC, or the competition.  It's purely individually on playing the position of QB, and Peyton was the best at it.  Ever.

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8 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

The point is the article is an incomplete comparison.  So is just looking at SB MVPs.  Or just stats.  Especially just SB wins.  Their careers are comparable in every way when looking at the whole picture.

 

But Peyton is the most football-intelligent QB to ever play.  Period.

 

And that's the one thing where nobody ever tries to say Brady has the advantage because it has nothing to do with teammates, HC, or the competition.  It's purely individually on playing the position of QB, and Peyton was the best at it.  Ever.

 

You act like Brady is some buffoon tripping over himself on the field. In the most important moments Brady almost always comes up clutch. You can have all the intelligence you want but if it doesn't translate into victories then what good was it? 

 

In no way am I trying to deny the greatness of Peyton Manning. I do find it comical that when it comes to the most important thing (winning) the Manning apologists want to put the emphasis elsewhere.

 

Manning put up some amazing numbers and I won't argue that his football acumen is second to no one. The thing is Tom Brady is not far behind him in that. The guy is a winner and he continues to win even at an advanced (for football) age.

 

I have one question. If you have 2 minutes to win the Super Bowl and your team needs a TD to win who are you going to want on the field? (I know you'll say Manning) For my money, I want Tom Brady.

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7 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

The point is the article is an incomplete comparison.  So is just looking at SB MVPs.  Or just stats.  Especially just SB wins.  Their careers are comparable in every way when looking at the whole picture.

 

But Peyton is the most football-intelligent QB to ever play.  Period.

 

And that's the one thing where nobody ever tries to say Brady has the advantage because it has nothing to do with teammates, HC, or the competition.  It's purely individually on playing the position of QB, and Peyton was the best at it.  Ever.

 

I think they are pretty much on par there. Both separate in that department from everyone else. 

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36 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

:bossy:

That’s One! Lol.. I should have remembered that one... Brady Broke the record against the Hawks (largest comeback in the SB 4th quarter) then smashed it against the Falcons (25 points in less than a half)

 

my point is be considered the greatest you have to show up at crunch crunch time in the playoffs.  Also like I said isn’t like I have a huge margin between the two I have Brady as 1a and Manning as 1B..

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As much as I despise the constant comparisons of these 2, I miss the rivalry.  I really do.

 

Some of the most exciting games I ever watched was the matchup between these two greats.  

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Just now, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

You act like Brady is some buffoon tripping over himself on the field. In the most important moments Brady almost always comes up clutch. You can have all the intelligence you want but if it doesn't translate into victories then what good was it? 

 

In no way am I trying to deny the greatness of Peyton Manning. I do find it comical that when it comes to the most important thing (winning) the Manning apologists want to put the emphasis elsewhere.

 

Manning put up some amazing numbers and I won't argue that his football acumen is second to no one. The thing is Tom Brady is not far behind him in that. The guy is a winner and he continues to win even at an advanced (for football) age.

 

First, I'm not saying anything close to Brady is a buffoon, so don't put words in my mouth.  Brady is very football-intelligent, and probably the most clutch QB ever.  I'm not trying to bash Brady.  He is one of the greatest of all time.

 

Second, winning is a team effort in the sport of football, so it's not the most important factor when talking about the best individual to ever play QB.  You're not going to say Charles Haley is the best individual to ever rush the passer.

 

Third, again, I'm not bashing Brady.  He is one of the greatest to ever play.  But in my humble opinion, Manning is the best to ever play QB.  Was he ever part of the greatest team, or dynasty, or even the greatest offense?  No, but he was the greatest to ever play QB.  His football-intelligence put him in a league of his own.

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10 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

That’s One! Lol.. I should have remembered that one... Brady Broke the record against the Hawks (largest comeback in the SB 4th quarter) then smashed it against the Falcons (25 points in less than a half)

 

1

 

I can't think of any time in the playoff careers of Manning or Brees where they have been as lucky as Brady was in those games. They should have both been losses on Brady's resume (both teams should have run the ball; Atlanta dropping an INT), regardless of how he inspired comebacks in each. 

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10 minutes ago, 18to87 said:

 

I can't think of any time in the playoff careers of Manning or Brees where they have been as lucky as Brady was in those games. They should have both been losses on Brady's resume (both teams should have run the ball; Atlanta dropping an INT), regardless of how he inspired comebacks in each. 

Running the ball is nice and all but look at the results they had all year from the 1.. they stunk! And the pass wasn’t bad it was actually a great play by Butler.

 

as for dropped INT, sure and if Asanta Samuel doesn’t drop an INT. Against the Giants the Pats go 19-0  and yet again Brady leads his team back from a deficit in the fourth.  All QB have a bit of luck and bad luck.. I mean when they get an INT because it goes threw their WR hands it’s Ugh..  but like I said Brady has more comeback wins in the playoffs than any other QB. He also could easily be 7-1 or with bad luck 3-4 sometimes it’s how the ball bounces.. 

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Did it ever occur he has more 4th quarter comebacks because he has screwed up earlier in the game to get them behind. Just look at all the times early on in his career a field goal won it for Brady. 2001 vs raiders and rams. 2003 vs Carolina.  Vanderjact misses vs Miami in 2000 and Pitt in 2005.  As Rob Parker says Brady is the LOAT.    Luckiest of all time. Weather it be the field goals,  the obvious fumble, or the int to end the game twice chargers 2005, k.c. on Sunday only to have it turn the other way.  He is blessed.  And one other thing no one has mentioned is that Brady always has has a running game in the playoffs were peyton has not. 

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Based on pure luck and not all the other misc garbage I would say the Colts getting two 1st rnd QB's that became stars (Manning & Luck) doesn't get much better. Perfect timing.

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