Not so kind words about Grigson from a former Eagles co-worker

[chad72]

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2017/1/12/14250724/former-eagles-co-worker-on-ryan-grigson-it-was-jaw-dropping-he-got-colts-gm-job-john-middlekauff

 

[DougDew]

As a sign of the times, it sure seems that a lot of people with a media account are going out of their way to forage for material to attack someone they don't like.

[throwing BBZ]

Irsay went with a native Hoosier. lol
All that matters is what can he do for us going forward.
I wouldn`t say he is a good judge of talent.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

"The difference between Louis Riddick and Ryan Grigson, if I was an owner and had to choose between the two of them is like the difference between Steph and like a D-league point guard. They weren’t even in the same f—ing realm. I mean they were in different universes."

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As a sign of the times, it sure seems that a lot of people with a media account are going out of their way to forage for material to attack someone they don't like.

 

I would agree with you if it had happened 2 or 3 years ago. However, given Grigson's recent track record, it is a peculiar choice of words from a co-worker nevertheless. Besides, it was in context of the other guy Riddick being praised.

[tikyle]

You could almost see it on TV when watching Riddick if you tried to compare his analysis to whatever Grigson would be thinking when he made most of the picks he made.

 

Moral of the story, life's not fair and just because you own a business, it doesn't necessarily mean you know how to effectively run one.

[VocableLoki]

Tempting to disregard this just for using "BFF's" in his analysis.

[OffensivelyPC]

So the guy used to be a scout and later was canned as a radio host...I'm sorry, but what does he have to say that matters?  

 

Grigson may not be a great GM, but we have proof that MIddlekauff is neither a great player evaluator or radio talk-show host.

[tikyle]

3 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

So the guy used to be a scout and later was canned as a radio host...I'm sorry, but what does he have to say that matters?  

 

Grigson may not be a great GM, but we have proof that MIddlekauff is neither a great player evaluator or radio talk-show host.

 

Does the resume of the messenger matter when the message holds substance?  I mean almost all great NFL coaches are players with little talent who could only make it to some level of college athletics.

 

Is Steve Young's analysis inherently better than Trent Dilfer's because of his success?  Is Randy Moss' better than Keyshawn Johnson?  Just asking?

[VocableLoki]

2 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Does the resume of the messenger matter when the message holds substance?  I mean almost all great NFL coaches are players with little talent who could only make it to some level of college athletics.

 

Is Steve Young's analysis inherently better than Trent Dilfer's because of his success?  Is Randy Moss' better than Keyshawn Johnson?  Just asking?

It's a little different because he specifically criticizing Grigson's scouting ability on the same team. If Dilfer and Young were on the same team and the former was highly critical of the latter then I think the argument wouldn't seem as substantive.

[Flash7]

Just now, VocableLoki said:

It's a little different because he specifically criticizing Grigson's scouting ability on the same team. If Dilfer and Young were on the same team and the former was highly critical of the latter then I think the argument wouldn't seem as substantive.

So it would be more substantive if they didn't work together, and had less knowledge of each other's work, reporting, and abilities?

[VocableLoki]

Just now, Flash7 said:

So it would be more substantive if they didn't work together, and had less knowledge of each other's work, reporting, and abilities?

Not saying that it would be, just suggesting that it appears a little weaker when one is a former scout ripping on the abilities of another scout in the same organization. 

[Flash7]

1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

Not saying that it would be, just suggesting that it appears a little weaker when one is a former scout ripping on the abilities of another scout in the same organization. 

To me, it lends more credibility, as they have worked together and have a better understanding of each other's work and capabilities. This is the thinking behind obtaining professional references in the working world, is it not?

[VocableLoki]

Just now, Flash7 said:

To me, it lends more credibility, as they have worked together and have a better understanding of each other's work and capabilities. This is the thinking behind obtaining professional references in the working world, is it not?

I agree about references, but a reference from someone who seems emotionally influenced (here it reads a little juvenile) or who is giving poor insight doesn't hold as much weight. Put it this way: if Riddick or the Eagles GM were saying this, it would carry a little more weight for me than a former scout who PC was claiming wasn't a great talent scout. Granted I don't know anything about  MIddlekauff, I just was talking about that specific analogy. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

Doesn't surprise me at all. 

[Flash7]

7 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

I agree about references, but a reference from someone who seems emotionally influenced (here it reads a little juvenile) or who is giving poor insight doesn't hold as much weight. Put it this way: if Riddick or the Eagles GM were saying this, it would carry a little more weight for me than a former scout who PC was claiming wasn't a great talent scout. Granted I don't know anything about  MIddlekauff, I just was talking about that specific analogy. 

Respectfully, you seem to be implying that there is an emotional connection here, simply because he had bad things to say about Grigson. Would you feel the same if he provided good remarks?

 

As a previous co-worker, Middlekauff can provide valid feedback. It could be good feedback, or bad, and in my opinion they would both carry a level of weight. Of course, there are other factors to consider, but it's not absurd to think that Grigson wasn't highly thought of within the Eagle's organization. It's very possible that's the case in Indy right now.

[VocableLoki]

Just now, Flash7 said:

Respectfully, you seem to be implying that there is an emotional connection here, simply because he had bad things to say about Grigson. Would you feel the same if he provided good remarks?

 

As a previous co-worker, Middlekauff can provide valid feedback. It could be good feedback, or bad, and in my opinion they would both carry a level of weight. Of course, there are other factors to consider, but it's not absurd to think that Grigson wasn't highly thought of within the Eagle's organization. It's very possible that's the case in Indy right now.

The "BFF's with the owner" part just reads very juvenile to me and his words read like someone who is jealous more than anything. That's why I think there is some kind of emotional charge to it.

 

It's very possible that people didn't like him within the Eagles organization. It's been suggested before that he is difficult to work with here so I wouldn't be shocked to hear that.

[RomanianColtsFan]

Sounds like bullcrap

[Coffeedrinker]

The guy may or may not be correct about Grigson but I will say:

1.  As a failed scout he doesn't have a lot of credibility

2.  He is not a well spoken person, so much so that after reading his quote on the link I sincerely question his intelligence and ability to form a coherent thought.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, tikyle said:

 

Does the resume of the messenger matter when the message holds substance?  I mean almost all great NFL coaches are players with little talent who could only make it to some level of college athletics.

 

Is Steve Young's analysis inherently better than Trent Dilfer's because of his success?  Is Randy Moss' better than Keyshawn Johnson?  Just asking?

The issue is credibility and the examples you use are different than this.  It would be like comparing Trent Dilfer to [name your favorite NFL QB dropout]. Trent has credibility because he had a long career in the FNL and as a sports show host.  Middlekauff has neither of those things, therefore no credibility.  As such, it gets treated as any trolling content that gets posted on any forum.  Anyone can justifiably dismiss it as such, regardless of the accuracy of his comments.

 

In other words, I'd rather dispute with the whiners/haters/trolls/etc. with the people I know and have a rapport with here than dispute the comments of some joker on the other side of the US who, for all intents and purposes has failed in all his endeavors that would give him any standing to make such comments and be taken seriously.  

 

At least with the people here, I get to call out the *s and then remind them of their idiocy when they further say something *ic.

[chad72]

50 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

The guy may or may not be correct about Grigson but I will say:

1.  As a failed scout he doesn't have a lot of credibility

2.  He is not a well spoken person, so much so that after reading his quote on the link I sincerely question his intelligence and ability to form a coherent thought.

 

I look at it like this. You are not the best at your job. Then you have 2 co-workers. Because you are not the best at your job compared to your co-workers, you gravitate and/or have a respect towards that are, that is natural. There could be one, that could be more ostentatious about his knowledge, and more willing to let you know what he knows (Louis Riddick). Then, there could be another who may keep things to himself and doesn't let the world know he knows more than what he lets on, a different personality type. (Ryan Grigson).

 

Thus, based on the limited exposure you have to their knowledge, you come to a conclusion that one has to be better than the other because one revealed it to you more. One thing you realize that in this country, not only do you need to know your stuff but you also have to sell the fact that you know it. With Ryan's personality, he may have fallen short on the sales part to his co-worker and saved the sales for an NFL owner, speaking when necessary.

 

Just my twist to this twisted co-worker saga.

[Everyone]

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

You could almost see it on TV when watching Riddick if you tried to compare his analysis to whatever Grigson would be thinking when he made most of the picks he made.

 

Moral of the story, life's not fair and just because you own a business, it doesn't necessarily mean you know how to effectively run one.

 

Yeah.....    all Irsay has done is lead a franchise to the 2nd most win of any NFL franchise for the last roughly 20 years.        

 

What a disgrace!          

 

Did you know that when you make a post,  other people can actually read it?     

 

Just asking....       

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

 

Does the resume of the messenger matter when the message holds substance?  I mean almost all great NFL coaches are players with little talent who could only make it to some level of college athletics.

 

Is Steve Young's analysis inherently better than Trent Dilfer's because of his success?  Is Randy Moss' better than Keyshawn Johnson?  Just asking?

 

 

I think you ask some very fair questions here,  and my answer would be this.....     sometimes it matters and sometimes it doesn't.

 

I'm not trying to be evasive....      but you have to have some level of resume to have some level of credibility.

 

What I'd say about Middlekauf is that his remarks seem to go far beyond the professional.     They seem highly personal.       And that should be a red-flag when you're reading this stuff.        Maybe Middlekauf is out of the scouting business because he's not good at it?     

 

Daneil Jeremiah is a former NFL scout for the NFL Network.    I don't get the sense he's a former scout because he wasn't good at his job.      I get the sense he's no longer a scout because he didn't want the "scout's life" anymore.        Too much being on the road, from motel to motel, and on a budget to boot.     At some point it gets old.

 

Could that be the case with Middlekauf?     Sure.     But his comments reflect a personal animus toward Grigson, so i'd be very cautious in reading too much into them.

 

Just my view of it....

 

[Mameluc]

I mean the guy was first all in love with Grigson and then he is an *? LOL

[Mameluc]

43 minutes ago, Everyone said:

 

This what my last post was about...

[Mameluc]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

I would agree with you if it had happened 2 or 3 years ago. However, given Grigson's recent track record, it is a peculiar choice of words from a co-worker nevertheless. Besides, it was in context of the other guy Riddick being praised.

eh i mean i cant take anything that guy says seriously. I remember, like the poster "Everyone" attached on his screenshots when he was all praising Grigson and now this? 

[mahagga73]

3 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

Tempting to disregard this just for using "BFF's" in his analysis.

Why? It's common knowledge he is close to the family not just Jim. 

[mahagga73]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah.....    all Irsay has done is lead a franchise to the 2nd most win of any NFL franchise for the last roughly 20 years.        

 

What a disgrace!          

 

Did you know that when you make a post,  other people can actually read it?     

 

Just asking....       

And now he has a chance to reverse a couple mistakes, the mediocre twins, Chuck and Ryan.

[VocableLoki]

Just now, mahagga73 said:

Why? It's common knowledge he is close to the family not just Jim. 

I find a grown man using the term BFF petulant.

[Defjamz26]

I always find it funny how defensive fans get when the FO is criticized by notable football people and not just "uninformed fans". 

 

Its like people spent so much time talking about how well respected Grigson is around the league and how he's not as bad as he's made out to be, that now that there's a negative opinion out about him from someone who actually worked with him (making it credible) people can't swallow it.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Everyone said:

 

 

What a two-faced hypocrite...

 

To be fair, a lot of posters here were Grigson fans after 2012, then turned on him as the 2013 offseason and the Richardson trade became obvious negatives. But those fans didn't work with Grigson, claim that he was the cat's meow, then go back and try to re-write history.

[Flash7]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What a two-faced hypocrite...

 

To be fair, a lot of posters here were Grigson fans after 2012, then turned on him as the 2013 offseason and the Richardson trade became obvious negatives. But those fans didn't work with Grigson, claim that he was the cat's meow, then go back and try to re-write history.

Personally, I don't care either way about Middlekauf's comments, as it does not change my opinion of Grigson.

 

I do think however, that people act differently in different roles. During 2013, MiddleKauf was employed by Comcast Sports Net in the Bay Area, and in 2014 he was employed by '95.7 The Game', a Bay Area radio talk show. It was as a public figure that he praised Grigson on Tiwitter. In other words, he played the nice guy, didn't want to ruffle any feather, and tried to gain followers, etc...

 

His most recent comments have come out when he is not employed by 95.7 -- when he does not have anyone to report to. He doesn't have to be the 'Nice guy' and can tell people what he really thinks. I'm not sure that this is the case, but it's not unreasonable. It's still not a good look though.

[LockeDown]

He sounds like sour grapes to me.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Personally, I don't care either way about Middlekauf's comments, as it does not change my opinion of Grigson.

 

I do think however, that people act differently in different roles. During 2013, MiddleKauf was employed by Comcast Sports Net in the Bay Area, and in 2014 he was employed by '95.7 The Game', a Bay Area radio talk show. It was as a public figure that he praised Grigson on Tiwitter. In other words, he played the nice guy, didn't want to ruffle any feather, and tried to gain followers, etc...

 

His most recent comments have come out when he is not employed by 95.7 -- when he does not have anyone to report to. He doesn't have to be the 'Nice guy' and can tell people what he really thinks. I'm not sure that this is the case, but it's not unreasonable. It's still not a good look though.

 

He effusively praised Grigson in 2013. Now, he says that in 2012 he and others couldn't even believe Grigson got the job, he's awful and everyone knows it, and Irsay was stupid to even hire him. If he felt that way when Grigson was hired, it's hard to reconcile that feeling with his public comments.

 

We've seen people give compliments through clenched teeth. His comments posted above from 2013 aren't that. He switched teams, then acted like he was never on the other team. He comes off as a bitter liar here, with that information. 

 

And this is not a defense of Grigson. As I said, lots of people, including me, have soured on him since 2013 (though many are far more offended by him than I am). That's fine -- we should change our opinions as we get more information. But don't act like you've always been negative on him when you were singing his praises on Twitter. 

[Buddy Lee]

Was Grigs really just the WC scout for the Eagles??? I wonder how he even got the interview w the Colts?

[jvan1973]

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What a two-faced hypocrite...

 

To be fair, a lot of posters here were Grigson fans after 2012, then turned on him as the 2013 offseason and the Richardson trade became obvious negatives. But those fans didn't work with Grigson, claim that he was the cat's meow, then go back and try to re-write history.

Maybe he was upset grigson didn't give him a job here

[gacoop1]

Nothing happen that there was supposed to be some changes by Jan 12th.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, Buddy Lee said:

Was Grigs really just the WC scout for the Eagles??? I wonder how he even got the interview w the Colts?

 

Nope. http://www.colts.com/team/staff/Ryan-Grigson/d89d12a6-623d-4ccb-ae8b-9c3e20720b50 

 

I wonder when this guy was actually with the Eagles...

 

Edit: Grigson was promoted by the Eagles from Western Regional Scout to Director of College Scouting in 2006. Middlekauff joined the Eagles in 2010 as a pro scout, then became a West Coast Area Scout in 2012. 

[coachG]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

As a sign of the times, it sure seems that a lot of people with a media account are going out of their way to forage for material to attack someone they don't like.

Sure is. Especially with what could easily be a case of revisionist history.