Bob Kravitz calls on Irsay to fire Grigson and Pagano

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The whole point is just about anyone you bring in will accomplish what Pagano and Grigson have done. just about any of the good to great coaches that will be avaliable will wanna work with luck especially offensive minded like Gruden and McDaniels. We could get a DC like Rex Ryan or Mike Pettine who both can build a very strong 3-4 unit and I'm sure there are many more I can't even think of of the top of my head. Not sure on OC but it's likely Mike McCoy will be avaliable and I think Ken Whisenhunt is too both are very good OC just not great head coaches 

Well at least you came up with some names.  That's better than most.  But it sounds like the Colts will end up with a coaching PUSH, despite the upheaval.  Its not a bad team, just average, and there usually aren't that many above average coaches available, if any..

 

What new coaching and GM changes have resulted in drastic improvement in the W-L standings in the past few years?  I don't know.  I'm asking.  None seem to stand out.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well at least you came up with some names.  That's better than most.  But it sounds like the Colts will end up with a coaching PUSH, despite the upheaval.  Its not a bad team, just average, and there usually aren't that many above average coaches available, if any..

 

What new coaching and GM changes have resulted in drastic improvement in the W-L standings in the past few years?  I don't know.  I'm asking.  None seem to stand out.

 

I'm not really sure on that but how many new GM and HC have started with an Andrew Luck at QB. I personally want and offensive HC with a strong DC I think a offensive HC will really help Luck.

[Coltfreak]

On 12/15/2016 at 0:13 PM, Coffeedrinker said:

I could see the Colts doing something similar to what he did with Mora.  Keep Grigson and tell whatever HC they bring in that the offensive system (including OC and offensive position coaches) stay in place but the new guy is free to bring in his own D and ST coaches/players.

Why in the HELL would anyone want to keep Chud???   He is clueless on how to gameplame with this team.  He needs to be the first one to go.   Think about it.     He has cost us more games than maybe even Pagano!!!!!   Terrible play caller. TERRIBLE!!!!

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The whole point is just about anyone you bring in will accomplish what Pagano and Grigson have done. just about any of the good to great coaches that will be avaliable will wanna work with luck especially offensive minded like Gruden and McDaniels. We could get a DC like Rex Ryan or Mike Pettine who both can build a very strong 3-4 unit and I'm sure there are many more I can't even think of of the top of my head. Not sure on OC but it's likely Mike McCoy will be avaliable and I think Ken Whisenhunt is too both are very good OC just not great head coaches 

Nice post CF12. I like your DC selections & you're right Whinsenhunt is a good OC. I don't see Gruden leaving the MNF booth though & while I think McDaniels is savvy on offense; I wanna see INDY stay away from NE staff members for now. I think winning is possible outside "The Patriot Way" formula.

 

I wanna see if Marvin Lewis is let go first in Cincinnati & take a run at him if he becomes available. 

 

You're exactly right though. I don't keep Pags & Grigs 1 more yr because I've seen enough & it's time for a change. I don't get too sentimentally attached to coaches. You get us close to a SB or you get replaced & both gentlemen have been here long enough.  The DeFlate Game doesn't count since we got our caboose kicked in that game & were not competitive at all. 

[southwest1]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Who are they and are they better than Pags and Chud?  This isn't a situation where a company is looking for a foreman for the third shift and will have a 1,000 applicants to choose from and 10,000 more qualified people across the country who could apply.  In that case, you fire the manager you have then post the job.

 

Irsay's and Grigson's job is to know who the other assistant and head coaches are around the league.  They have to have a similar philosophy.  Will the new HC want to install a Tampa 2?  What do you do with Vontae, your $10miliion/year man CB?  How does spending $10million on talent you no longer need help you to spend the money to get the talent you do need to run your new D  How long will we have a mediocre Tampa 2 because of our lingering cap hit with Vontae?

 

So how many coaches are in your hiring pool that don't want to run a Tampa 2?

 

What kind of offense should be run?  A quick hitter, or what we have?  How many good coaches want to run the offense we should run and not run a Tampa 2 defense?

 

How many coaches are out there with those qualifications.....and that's even before they interview and show that they can communicate and handle the pressure of being a HC.

 

You don't just fire your current HC without already having asked yourself those questions.  Are there 10 possible coaches you think are better than Pags and want to interview, or about 2?

I read a post like this & I keep asking myself the same question: Why are there so many Pagano & Grigson apologists out there? They were both hired in 2012 & why is it that in 2016, I feel like we are sliding backwards or regressing as an organization? Perhaps, because we are. 

 

We can't beat the Texans in a game we had the ball in the final drive for. Yes, we typically have the Titans number that's true, but that franchise under DC Dick LeBeau & QB Marcus Mariota is about to take a leap forward in the next season or so. We will never win another SB unless we build a good defense & can at least be competitive with Pittsburgh & NE. 

 

I just see INDY's AFC South dominance slipping away the longer we retain this regime & SBs will never transpire under this HC/GM partnership. I truly believe that. 

[Coffeedrinker]

40 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Why in the HELL would anyone want to keep Chud???   He is clueless on how to gameplame with this team.  He needs to be the first one to go.   Think about it.     He has cost us more games than maybe even Pagano!!!!!   Terrible play caller. TERRIBLE!!!!

Because he's a good OC.  I wish he'd run the ball more but other than that, I like his offensive schemes.  People act like he sends everyone deep on every pass play but that is not the case.  On most pass plays he has a receiver at every level and then, often times a check down as well.  He makes good adjustments at half time and he will stick with something as long as it's working.

[DougDew]

12 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I read a post like this & I keep asking myself the same question: Why are there so many Pagano & Grigson apologists out there? They were both hired in 2012 & why is it that in 2016, I feel like we are sliding backwards or regressing as an organization? Perhaps, because we are. 

 

We can't beat the Texans in a game we had the ball in the final drive for. Yes, we typically have the Titans number that's true, but that franchise under DC Dick LeBeau & QB Marcus Mariota is about to take a leap forward in the next season or so. We will never win another SB unless we build a good defense & can at least be competitive with Pittsburgh & NE. 

 

I just see INDY's AFC South dominance slipping away the longer we retain this regime & SBs will never transpire under this HC/GM partnership. I truly believe that. 

I'm not defending the regime.  The record speaks for itself.  Andrew's struggles and and some of the regression in W-L since the AFCCG are certainly impacted by mediocre coaching effectiveness and personnel decisions.  It is what it is.

 

I'm talking about the process of changing coaches, and ensuring that the changeover is actually a step forward, not just a hope and a prayer.  I'll say it again, the firing is the easy part.

 

Maybe after firing them, we can do what the Broncos did when they hired Josh McDaniels as their HC.  I believe they had buyer's remorse after about three months, but they thought he was the right choice at the time.

 

The Jax coach went there with great fanfare.  A hot Seattle DC.  Their record has been about the same.

[tfunky14]

On 12/15/2016 at 10:13 AM, Archangel said:

 

Yep never played a down in the NFL But a lot of the guys in this forum, pretty much new what needed to be done to beat the Texans. And the coaching staff did exactly the opposite. So if the Fans who never played a down saw this why did the coaches not see it. Just a observation from a loyal fan for many of years

That didn't make any sense. Of course the players and coaches knew lasts week's game was high importance.

 

[coltsfeva]

Kravitz article reminds me of a little kid, riding in the backseat of a car asking " Are we there yet?     Building a championship team takes time and in a world of instant gratification, people simply don't have the patience. Even if the Colts lose the last three games, the season won't be a total disaster as they have had to play some young guys that now can provide some depth. Let's see how this draft works out and hopefully next year the team can stay relatively healthy. The Colts are not as bad as some would suggest, WHEN HEALTHY. To quote Tom Moore; " Football is a game of players and players make plays" To judge either Pagano or Grigson on this year's results is short-sighted.

[CoachLite]

I've lost all confidence in the entire Colts organization to field a competitive football team. The fans are looking for simple answers - fire the HC or fire the GM - but the problem seems more complex to me. While I don't think the necessary changes can be made with the existing organization, the systemic problems that exist haven't been correctly identified or analyzed. What I see is "let's just do something, even if it's wrong ..."

[Gramz]

Well, the need to have the highest paid QB hasn't helped the cause at all.    I know this is not a popular comment I'm making, but it is the truth.

[braveheartcolt]

20 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Well, the need to have the highest paid QB hasn't helped the cause at all.    I know this is not a popular comment I'm making, but it is the truth.

Ooooooh. A wee bit of Peyton Mania sneaking out there girl! He he....

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, CoachLite said:

I've lost all confidence in the entire Colts organization to field a competitive football team. The fans are looking for simple answers - fire the HC or fire the GM - but the problem seems more complex to me. While I don't think the necessary changes can be made with the existing organization, the systemic problems that exist haven't been correctly identified or analyzed. What I see is "let's just do something, even if it's wrong ..."

The problem, IMO, is that the Colts have not gotten a very high return on the players they made large investments in.  Most recently, AC, TY, Luck, and Dorsett...and before that TRich and Werner.  If you spend high draft picks and high dollars on players, they need to produce.  Throw DA into that as well.

 

Some may argue with me, but I don't think the Colts have yet gotten the return on their investment in AC, TY, and Luck as much as they should have....and nobody could really seriously argue that the Colts should not have signed those contracts, so its not poor judgment by Grigson.

 

Most of that poor return seems to rest on offense, so it seems.  The defensive weaknesses seem much more easily explained....mediocre performance as a result of mediocre investment so far.

[Colts_Fan12]

57 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The problem, IMO, is that the Colts have not gotten a very high return on the players they made large investments in.  Most recently, AC, TY, Luck, and Dorsett...and before that TRich and Werner.  If you spend high draft picks and high dollars on players, they need to produce.  Throw DA into that as well.

 

Some may argue with me, but I don't think the Colts have yet gotten the return on their investment in AC, TY, and Luck as much as they should have....and nobody could really seriously argue that the Colts should not have signed those contracts, so its not poor judgment by Grigson.

 

Most of that poor return seems to rest on offense, so it seems.  The defensive weaknesses seem much more easily explained....mediocre performance as a result of mediocre investment so far.

How the hell have we not hotter a return from Luck and TY?? The others sure but our 2 best players the only ones keeping us from picking in the top 5 we aren't getting a return on?? 

[CanuckColtsFan]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

The problem, IMO, is that the Colts have not gotten a very high return on the players they made large investments in.  Most recently, AC, TY, Luck, and Dorsett...and before that TRich and Werner.  If you spend high draft picks and high dollars on players, they need to produce.  Throw DA into that as well.

 

Some may argue with me, but I don't think the Colts have yet gotten the return on their investment in AC, TY, and Luck as much as they should have....and nobody could really seriously argue that the Colts should not have signed those contracts, so its not poor judgment by Grigson.

 

Luck is only in the first year of his contract. I'm pretty sure it will look like a bargain in two, three years. TY is the 7th highest paid WR and his contract goes till 2021. As the cap increases these salaries will look better and better.

 

I agree with the statement you made about the other players. 

 

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I read the article and I can't say I disagree one bit.

[Archangel]

7 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

That didn't make any sense. Of course the players and coaches knew lasts week's game was high importance.

 

Read the entire quote from the gentleman who was making the comment towards the fans and MR Kravitz. And now let me ask you this if the game was of high importance to the coaches and to the players, And if this team which has played the Texans multiple times over the past few years, And you as a Head Coach already know who the DC is and pretty much know how he will play against your team. Then what was of high importance to continue the same game plan and not at least try and change things.  After all the last meeting Luck was Blitzed almost every down and laying on his back. I understand the coaches did not play the game and your right, if that is the case why was Dorsett left in the game. 

[Coltfreak]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:27 PM, Coffeedrinker said:

Because he's a good OC.  I wish he'd run the ball more but other than that, I like his offensive schemes.  People act like he sends everyone deep on every pass play but that is not the case.  On most pass plays he has a receiver at every level and then, often times a check down as well.  He makes good adjustments at half time and he will stick with something as long as it's working.

 O he's not.   And as a person that goes to every game I see the stupid plays routes that are called   I watch how deep the receivers run not as easy to see on tv.    He has admitted that his style is the long passes.  And it goes along with what Luck likes to do. 

 

If he were a good coordinator the ball would be coming out quicker to protect the QB with an inexperienced online.   Again he has lost more games for the Colts this yr than he can be credited for winning.    He sucks 

[Coffeedrinker]

On 12/17/2016 at 2:44 PM, Coltfreak said:

 O he's not.   And as a person that goes to every game I see the stupid plays routes that are called   I watch how deep the receivers run not as easy to see on tv.    He has admitted that his style is the long passes.  And it goes along with what Luck likes to do. 

 

If he were a good coordinator the ball would be coming out quicker to protect the QB with an inexperienced online.   Again he has lost more games for the Colts this yr than he can be credited for winning.    He sucks 

Wow, you go to all the games some that makes you more of a expert.  Good for you.

[krunk]

I think you look at firing them after giving them better players to work with in 2017 and we still can't even make it into the playoffs.    I don't think you fire them in 2016 knowing you've got all kind of holes on the defense and parts of the offense.   Do it after you've given them something to work with and despite that it doesn't look any better.   I feel this thing will look better if we improve the talent level of that defense mainly.   The O line is still a work in progress, but there's some pieces in place there.  Both sides need parts, but the O line doesn't need as many parts as the defense.

[PeterBowman]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think you look at firing them after giving them better players to work with in 2017 and we still can't even make it into the playoffs.    I don't think you fire them in 2016 knowing you've got all kind of holes on the defense and parts of the offense.   Do it after you've given them something to work with and despite that it doesn't look any better.   I feel this thing will look better if we improve the talent level of that defense mainly.   The O line is still a work in progress, but there's some pieces in place there.  Both sides need parts, but the O line doesn't need as many parts as the defense.

which is why I think there were most likely no plans in doing anything after this offseason....I bet this is a 2 year deal depending on how next year turns out. Grigson went hard on O line this offseason and it's looking to be paying off now, just has to carry over the next 2 games and next year. This offseason hit the D hard, especially linebackers. Really if the D line and O line can stay somewhat healthy next  year they can be very good, as has been witnessed the last half of the season. And I've been saying that the linebackers have been the big weakness, not the D line, but Edwin Jackson is starting to shine and Morrison is playing MUCH better lately(save for the Houston game when the whole team crapped the bed). If they can get a legit pass rusher, this D could make a huge jump next year.

 

Now if the team stumble again next year, I can see that being it for Grigson and Pagano.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

which is why I think there were most likely no plans in doing anything after this offseason....I bet this is a 2 year deal depending on how next year turns out. Grigson went hard on O line this offseason and it's looking to be paying off now, just has to carry over the next 2 games and next year. This offseason hit the D hard, especially linebackers. Really if the D line and O line can stay somewhat healthy next  year they can be very good, as has been witnessed the last half of the season. And I've been saying that the linebackers have been the big weakness, not the D line, but Edwin Jackson is starting to shine and Morrison is playing MUCH better lately(save for the Houston game when the whole team crapped the bed). If they can get a legit pass rusher, this D could make a huge jump next year.

 

Now if the team stumble again next year, I can see that being it for Grigson and Pagano.

I think Edwin is a good piece.  Love his passion, physicality and his leadership. I'll admit Morrison has looked a little bit better, although I'm still leery of his speed.  I have a little bit of interest in Deon King.  I just like his size and his build.  Has good speed and I saw him make a really nice hit on special teams.   Just speculation for right now, but something keeps telling me he can play if given a chance.   Might have something there.  Still need to look at improving the linebacking corps in this draft though.

[PeterBowman]

Just now, krunk said:

I think Edwin is a good piece.  Love his passion and his leadership.

I'll admit Morrison has looked a little bit better, although I'm still leery of his speed.  I have have a little bit of interest in Deon King.  I just like his size and his build.  Has good speed and I saw him make a really nice hit on special teams.   Just speculation for right now, but something keeps telling me he can play if given a chance.   Might have something there.  Still need to look at improving the linebacking corps in this draft though.

Very true, if you can land a top end ILB then take it. But it also wouldn't surprise me if they take Cook or Fournette in the first if they're sitting right there staring them in the face.

 

This is going to be an interesting draft for sure. Improve the pass rush and LBs and this D takes a massive jump next year. On top of them being in year 2 of the system.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, PeterBowman said:

Very true, if you can land a top end ILB then take it. But it also wouldn't surprise me if they take Cook or Fournette in the first if they're sitting right there staring them in the face.

 

This is going to be an interesting draft for sure. Improve the pass rush and LBs and this D takes a massive jump next year. On top of them being in year 2 of the system.

If you can improve the level of play on this D next year I think we get over the hump.  You know we are going to score points with Chuds system on offense. That part is a given.  Just need to get a better performance out of this D.  Improving the personnel goes a long way towards accomplishing that.   I think we'll see Ted open things up a bit more with improved personnel.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

After the win yesterday, Irsay will probably keep them. It was a promising display of the offense, we can't deny that.

 

I personally would like to at least keep Joe Philbin so he can continue with the development of the O-line. 

 

You could argue that Ted Monachino should be given one more year with better players, and he knows his stuff about LB's which we especially needs next year.

 

Chud? Well, he has shown yesterday and on a few other occasions that he can put together a great game plan, but somebody has to make it absolutely clear that we want to see that every time. Whether that be Pagano or Irsay himself, I don't care. 

[chad72]

We are somewhat similar to the Norv Turner coached Chargers. They will have a very good win vs the Colts and then turn around and lose to the Browns. The results are not in par with the talent level, even if the talent level is JUST ENOUGH to win the AFC South.

 

If the talent is truly that terrible, with so many players on IR, we don't just dominate a very good defensive team. It is one thing to win 16-6 and another to win 34-6. All of a sudden Chud is calling slants against DBs that play off, and quick hitters, routes are developing faster, Luck is not holding on to the ball (and a makeshift OL as a result is being praised more), Turbin is used more at the goal line, we are not taking negative plays with sacks and turnovers etc.

 

It just shows me that the coaches are capable of making adjustments but it is too little too late, IMO because the ups and downs, typical of the Pagano era, may make us a playoff contender next year but will not take us to the next level. I do not have confidence in them to make in-game adjustments when it takes them 14 games to do what they should be doing on a weekly basis. 

[Colts_Fan12]

The "no talent" excuse doesn't work anymore you can't play as good as you have against the jets and Vikings then get beat by the Jags and swept by Houston. They need to go cause they are just average coaches. The talent was good enough to destroy Minnesota and NYJ yet couldbt handle the 2 win Jags or the Texans with Brock Osweiler?? We need to stop pissing around and can them and bring in McDaniels before he goes somewhere else. Pair him with Nick Caserio.

[BOTT]

 no sh**

[Coltfreak]

12 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Wow, you go to all the games some that makes you more of a expert.  Good for you.

Didn't say it made me more of an expert.  I said I could see what is happening in the field better than what is shown on TV.   lay off the  caffeine dude 

[braveheartcolt]

It is a shame other teams are paid to play well. We should be allowed to just march onto the field every game and play like how we want......

[Coffeedrinker]

10 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Didn't say it made me more of an expert.  I said I could see what is happening in the field better than what is shown on TV.   lay off the  caffeine dude 

Now a lay off the caffeine.  That's original.  Should I respond with stopping being a freak?.

 

Anyways, I see plenty and I see a lot of pass plays where there is a receiver at every level plus a check down, Chud's offense does not just send everyone deep.

[shakedownstreet]

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Now a lay off the caffeine.

 

 

screw the caffeine, i want crystal meth! 

[Coffeedrinker]

Just now, shakedownstreet said:

 

screw the caffeine, i want crystal meth! 

I can't decide if I should like this post or not.

 

On one hand it's hilarious and the other hand it's disturbing.

[Coltfreak]

Z

[NannyMcafee]

14 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Z

 

Boosting your post count? Lol jk...

[Coltfreak]

43 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Boosting your post count? Lol jk...

I was posting something pretty harsh and decided to refrain.... couldn't delete

[NannyMcafee]

5 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

I was posting something pretty harsh and decided to refrain.... couldn't delete

 

Oh it's understandable!