What's more embarrassing; the team's play or fan's comments?

[Nadine]

8 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

A better question is why do the people making honest criticisms keep being singled out and criticized for being sports fans?

 

Imagine complaining about a team being bad and then being told to stop being negative.

It's a matter of perspective.  But, I don't see that happening here.

There is an overabundance of people criticizing

And there are a fair number that have no tolerance for the opposing viewpoint

 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

 Considering that we fans have no control over what the team does....yet can control our emotions and comments, it is pretty evident what is more embarrassing.

[WarGhost21]

Can I just go ahead and say both or do you need a direct answer?

[DougDew]

Under Grigson and Pagano, the team has never drafted higher than the 18th pick.

 

And, as most have finally recognized, Luck has his set of flaws too.  So the idea that the Colts have won by Luck carrying an inept team put together and coached by inept management is simply choosing to see something in a way that validates an invested opinion.

 

While I'm not embarrassed by the fans comments, I am embarrassed for them.  Its obvious in addition to being invested in the Colts as a fan would be, many have already made the emotional investment in management being inept, and choose to look at nearly everything as a way to validate that investment.

[teganslaw]

This forum isn't much different from other football forums. The Steelers fans are upset with their team and want Mike Tomlin fired and other coaches gone. This seems to be a normal reaction whenever a team has a bad season or is going through a string of losses.

[#12.]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

@21isSuperman

 

My point, maybe clumsily made, is that I think the people running this team, despite their mistakes, should not be judged by the standard of uninformed fans on the Internet.

 

No we're not career football people... or whatever you seem to be going for here.  Of course we're not directors or producers either, but we can tell when a movie sucks.  Neither are we music industry people, but we can tell when a song sucks.  No one goes to a bad movie and thinks, well, I better not give my opinion on this piece of crap because these directors and producers know more about movie making than I do.  Similarly, an NFL game is entertainment, nothing more, nothing less, and the consumers of that entertainment, those who purchase tickets, merchandise, pay for DirecTV, etc., will, until the end of time, point out crap when they see it and have wasted hard earned money on it. 

 

Beyond that, I fail to understand why some have this compulsion - a Colts fan's duty - to defend Grigson and Chuck.  Grigson and Chuck are no more the Colts to me than Lindy Infante and Jim Mora were the Colts.  I was a Colts fan long before they arrived.  I'll be a Colts fan long after they are gone.

[coltsfanatic24]

The teams play but I'm not surprised of the record. This is not a good roster. 

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

 

No we're not career football people... or whatever you seem to be going for here.  Of course we're not directors or producers either, but we can tell when a movie sucks.  Neither are we music industry people, but we can tell when a song sucks.  No one goes to a bad movie and thinks, well, I better not give my opinion on this piece of crap because these directors and producers know more about movie making than I do.  Similarly, an NFL game is entertainment, nothing more, nothing less, and the consumers of that entertainment, those who purchase tickets, merchandise, pay for DirecTV, etc., will, until the end of time, point out crap when they see it and have wasted hard earned money on it. 

 

Beyond that, I fail to understand why some have this compulsion - a Colts fan's duty - to defend Grigson and Chuck.  Grigson and Chuck are no more the Colts to me than Lindy Infante and Jim Mora were the Colts.  I was a Colts fan long before they arrived.  I'll be a Colts fan long after they are gone.

Very well said. I don't like the attitude that being a real Colts fans means you have to have this optimistic and super positive outlook on the team, and that when it comes to talking about the front office people we shouldn't criticize because we've never been in their spot.

[OffensivelyPC]

19 hours ago, Nadine said:

If you were embarrassed by either fans or play, which synonym would describe your embarrassment most

 

synonyms:

mortified, red-faced, blushing, abashed, shamed, ashamed, shamefaced, humiliated,chagrined, awkward, self-conscious, uncomfortable, sheepish; 

discomfited, disconcerted,upset, discomposed, flustered, agitated, distressed; 

shy, bashful, tongue-tied;

informal with egg on one's face, wishing the earth would swallow one up

 

I don't think any of them apply except maybe upset.  

 

synonyms:distressed, troubled, perturbed, dismayed, disturbed, unsettled, disconcerted, worried,bothered, anxious, agitated, flustered, ruffled, unnerved, shaken, unstrung; 

hurt,saddened, grieved; 

informal cut up, choked

"the loss made Jane upset"

 

Still agree with superman, none of this is embarrassing. It is upsetting and aggravating though

It's not just that it's upsetting or aggravating.  It makes it difficult to really want to discuss anything.  You make a well thought out post as to why someone might be over-exaggerating and by sheer strength in numbers, the conversation gets drowned out by the excessive whining.  Even in wins, we've got to find a reason to be disappointed it seems, and people who just want to talk football have to scour through way more posts and threads about so and so sucks, should be traded, etc. before finding a reasonable person with reasonable criticism to have reasonable discussions with.  And even when someone does make a reasonable criticism, they're jumped on and attacked as well.  I'ts exhausting, not to mention time consuming, and it drowns out any real conversation, making it difficult to discuss anything at all.  That's just the internet, I guess, but still...when you come to know people on more than just a faceless internet like we do one another, I find it difficult to come around as often as I used to because of the excessive complaining.  It disappoints me, to say the least, to have come to really enjoy a community and then see the people I would consider "internet friends" (not all, but more than I care to acknowledge publicly) change this community into what it has become. We all get into our arguments from time to time and say things we regret, but this is something else entirely.

[Nadine]

5 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's not just that it's upsetting or aggravating.  It makes it difficult to really want to discuss anything.  You make a well thought out post as to why someone might be over-exaggerating and by sheer strength in numbers, the conversation gets drowned out by the excessive whining.  Even in wins, we've got to find a reason to be disappointed it seems, and people who just want to talk football have to scour through way more posts and threads about so and so sucks, should be traded, etc. before finding a reasonable person with reasonable criticism to have reasonable discussions with.  And even when someone does make a reasonable criticism, they're jumped on and attacked as well.  I'ts exhausting, not to mention time consuming, and it drowns out any real conversation, making it difficult to discuss anything at all.  That's just the internet, I guess, but still...when you come to know people on more than just a faceless internet like we do one another, I find it difficult to come around as often as I used to because of the excessive complaining.  It disappoints me, to say the least, to have come to really enjoy a community and then see the people I would consider "internet friends" (not all, but more than I care to acknowledge publicly) change this community into what it has become. We all get into our arguments from time to time and say things we regret, but this is something else entirely.

That's the challenge in situations like this.

For the TRich issue we created a thread so that the issue was not all over the board

For the fire people issue, we also did this and pinned them.

The difficulty is that people right now want to vent and use this board for doing that.

People who don't want to vent get tired of it and exit so, the board become predominantly venters.

But, I've seen some people make comments such as yours and I want you to know that we take this seriously.

 

Open to suggestions for sure

[ColtsBlueFL]

Peoples ability to post opinions will be respected an allowed, even excessive criticism.  Nobody is against that, as long as forum rules are met.  Now, the severity and and how it's delivered seems the debating points.  Granted, some here are upset but patient.  They know all of the obstacles dealt with and trust Irsay in his plan for continuity through the hardship will pay off in time (Marvin Lewis anyone?).  Fans criticize Grigs/Pagano but in a way to turn it around and get the players and team better.

 

Others seem bent on pitch forks and torches calling for the heads of GM on down.  This seems typical of a fan based football forums when a team meets hardship. I just want to bring into the light some facts about mid-season head coaching changes if you get your wish.  One, interim coaches never turn a season around into a winning campaign.  Here's your proof-

 

 

Now add in-

Joe Philbin    1 -3    Dan Campbell    5 - 7    Adam Gase   3 - 4 so far this year.

 

The Colts coaches and players have to expect to win games, not hope you win games. Remember 'The' Mora Playoffs rant?) The Colts have no identity, no culture anymore.  This team has to seriously look at the things it actually does well, then place everything toward utilizing that.  They must also seriously address the weaknesses that abound.  And must minimize or hide as much of these as possible.  You have to, it's who you are and must deal.

Just a few games ago, Irsay was under the belief we were a few plays away from being undefeated.  Can't let that identity walk out the door.  It's something you do each week to maintain, or grow.

Pat Kirwan once endured 4 coaching changes in a 5 year span.  He stated after-

 

"Once an owner gets an appetite for firing his coach, rather than weathering the storm of a poor season or two, the club is usually headed down a steep cliff with the end result being a bad franchise."   That seems to illustrate the above.

 

Another thing mentioned.  For the most part - "

Pat also went back and looked at collateral damage.  It is very eye opening!

 

"I went back and counted the number of assistant coaches, front office people, scouts, trainers, secretaries, PR staff and support people that were caught up in the four staff changes that I was involved with, and I wish I didn't, because it was a bleak reality.

 

There were a combined 82 people let go from those four regime changes, and less than half of them ever returned to an NFL team. There were a lot more people looking for work to start 2014 than just the six head coaches who have already been let go."

 

I'm sure Irsay has some 'football people' he can talk to.  I'm certain he and they are ascertaining what has gone wrong, and how and when can it get fixed? Or maybe the straw has finally broken the Monkey's back and he has hired an agency to search out potential candidates, either now or at the end of they year.  We'll see.

[cbear]

21 minutes ago, Nadine said:

That's the challenge in situations like this.

For the TRich issue we created a thread so that the issue was not all over the board

For the fire people issue, we also did this and pinned them.

The difficulty is that people right now want to vent and use this board for doing that.

People who don't want to vent get tired of it and exit so, the board become predominantly venters.

But, I've seen some people make comments such as yours and I want you to know that we take this seriously.

 

Open to suggestions for sure

 

One thing I hope you folks don't do is what the Lakers board did.  To stem the incessant venting and internet fights, they've pinned a thread for each player.  Now you have to literally dig through hundreds of pages to see if there is something worth reading.  Now that is exhausting, which is why I seldom go there.  I think the Grigson and Pagano pins were good ideas as posts on those two are pretty much a broken records. 

 

Maybe lock threads faster?  I don't know.  This is still one of the better boards though, even with this difficult season. 

[SkyBane]

ITT:

[cbear]

36 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's not just that it's upsetting or aggravating.  It makes it difficult to really want to discuss anything.  You make a well thought out post as to why someone might be over-exaggerating and by sheer strength in numbers, the conversation gets drowned out by the excessive whining.  Even in wins, we've got to find a reason to be disappointed it seems, and people who just want to talk football have to scour through way more posts and threads about so and so sucks, should be traded, etc. before finding a reasonable person with reasonable criticism to have reasonable discussions with.  And even when someone does make a reasonable criticism, they're jumped on and attacked as well.  I'ts exhausting, not to mention time consuming, and it drowns out any real conversation, making it difficult to discuss anything at all.  That's just the internet, I guess, but still...when you come to know people on more than just a faceless internet like we do one another, I find it difficult to come around as often as I used to because of the excessive complaining.  It disappoints me, to say the least, to have come to really enjoy a community and then see the people I would consider "internet friends" (not all, but more than I care to acknowledge publicly) change this community into what it has become. We all get into our arguments from time to time and say things we regret, but this is something else entirely.

 

Bingo.  I don't know how many good posts I've missed because it's too time consuming digging through all the repetitive venting and fights to find that one good post where folks could potentially have a productive and satisfying "real" discussion rather than internet discussions full of snark and vitriol fueled by internet annonimity.  

 

One thing I find myself doing more of is skimming through posts and just reading certain posters.  That seems to help. 

[SkyBane]

39 minutes ago, Nadine said:

That's the challenge in situations like this.

For the TRich issue we created a thread so that the issue was not all over the board

For the fire people issue, we also did this and pinned them.

The difficulty is that people right now want to vent and use this board for doing that.

People who don't want to vent get tired of it and exit so, the board become predominantly venters.

But, I've seen some people make comments such as yours and I want you to know that we take this seriously.

 

Open to suggestions for sure

More seriously than my previous post, the biggest issue is that this community, for all it's virtues and sins, is incredibly easy to troll. People here tend to (for whatever reason) jump on every piece of bait that gets thrown out and attempt to "disprove" it, when in reality, there's a lot of people here who post solely for the attention their blatantly outlandish things gets them.

 

If more people called out bait for what it was and moved on, there would be a lot less explosions that happened.

[OffensivelyPC]

48 minutes ago, Nadine said:

That's the challenge in situations like this.

For the TRich issue we created a thread so that the issue was not all over the board

For the fire people issue, we also did this and pinned them.

The difficulty is that people right now want to vent and use this board for doing that.

People who don't want to vent get tired of it and exit so, the board become predominantly venters.

But, I've seen some people make comments such as yours and I want you to know that we take this seriously.

 

Open to suggestions for sure

Honestly, I don't know how you respond to it.  I can live with venting, but without the benefit of vocal tone, innocuous words to one are inflammatory to another, and there isnt' anything you can do about that.

 

Cutting down on the obviously ridiculous threads is a good start.  I don't know if warnings are on the table for obvious thread bait, and I don't want to say some people shouldn't be able to create threads, because I can't advocate unfair treatment.  That being said, there are a few people's threads I automatically ignore because of who posted it.  I won't name any names, but you don't have to thing too long before at least a couple names come to mind.  Suspending for a period of time the ability to create threads would be helpful for those types.

 

So, to the extent that a thread is reasonably appropriate for merger into a pinned thread or candidate thread to be locked (and if it were me, I'd lean toward merger/locking rather than make an argument to keep as a stand alone thread), I would take that action sooner rather than waiting for things to go completely south.  I'm thinking like what mods did with deflategate, for instance.  Many of the complaint threads around here are essentially the threads on the same handful of issues.  To the extent that is true, it should be locked and linked or merged to the old thread, if it's still in fact open.  If it's archived, then obviously there's no harm in leaving it open.  It would operate as a pinned thread, it just wouldn't actually be pinned.  Before we proved we couldn't handle the deflate gate conversation, anything reasonably related to deflategate during the time was either merged or locked and linked to that thread (regardless of whether it was pinned). 

 

The same could be said about duplicative baiting threads.  When a thread is titled "Time to get rid of Luck," we know where the conversation is going to go because we've already had it before and it seems to come up week in and week out.  There's really no reason to wait until it gets to 5 pages before it is actually locked, particularly if a thread of the same issue has been locked before.   Put it up to a vote between moderators or require a second vote from another mod so that we aren't inhibiting conversation as best as we can.  To the extent you don't want to lock simply because of the topic or perhaps circumstances have changed and it may be more relevant, you can simply just refer to the above rule and be more apt to merging threads on the same issue.  Threads with multiple issues will obviously be trickier, perhaps impossible, but if we're having productive discussions, there's nothing to really complain about anyway.

[Superman]

7 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

It's comments like this that makes me question some of ya'll mindset when it comes to this team.....you saying you understand the frustration when it comes to this team losing and not fixing the mistakes but you're also saying the coaches don't deserve most of the criticism???? Why not??? Are they not running the team? Getting them prepared for every game? Gameplan for the opponent? Of course they deserve that criticism every bit of it. They been making the same mistake for years what is so hard to understand your mistakes and not do it again? Obviously these guys don't get it we don't hate them personally we don't like their choices or way of thinking. Prime example they let sio moore go and have josh mcnary in the starting lineup who is our worst linebacker we have. You can say oh they work with these guys everyday they see things we don't....ok that's true but he's trash he can't cover he can't tackle at all why start him???? You're better off starting a rookie he shouldn't be on the roster anyway but that's good coaching though???? Irsay is getting criticism he deserves because he made the mistake to keep two guys for 4 more years who are not worthy of their jobs it's that simple and until he makes that change he will continue to receive it. Can't keep turning the other cheek acting like it's not that bad because it is that bad

 

To the bolded, the criticism they get around here. Yes, they deserve criticism, but most of the stuff people say about the coaches on this board is nonsense, IMO.

 

That's not a glowing endorsement of the coaching staff. I have major beefs with them. My problem is I can't really discuss those beefs with most posters because all anyone ever says is "the coaches suck, Grigson sucks, Irsay sucks, this team is an embarrassment..." 

 

You're another one to say you don't hate these people personally. But read through some of these posts. People say some pretty hateful stuff about the people running the team. Some of it, if not hateful, is incredibly rude and baseless. 

[OffensivelyPC]

11 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

More seriously than my previous post, the biggest issue is that this community, for all it's virtues and sins, is incredibly easy to troll. People here tend to (for whatever reason) jump on every piece of bait that gets thrown out and attempt to "disprove" it, when in reality, there's a lot of people here who post solely for the attention their blatantly outlandish things gets them.

 

If more people called out bait for what it was and moved on, there would be a lot less explosions that happened.

Yeah, and that's what makes it difficult to police (if that's the right word).  I think the best thing mods can do is be mindful of what issues cause the greatest heartburn around here, and be more willing to merge threads.  If people want to get offended at every litte thing, there's nothing we can do about it except assume it will happen.  If we can identify those threads sooner rather than later and the corresponding core issues, it shouldn't be a problem to merge or lock it based on precedent threads of the same issue.

[tfunky14]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To the bolded, the criticism they get around here. Yes, they deserve criticism, but most of the stuff people say about the coaches on this board is nonsense, IMO.

 

That's not a glowing endorsement of the coaching staff. I have major beefs with them. My problem is I can't really discuss those beefs with most posters because all anyone ever says is "the coaches suck, Grigson sucks, Irsay sucks, this team is an embarrassment..." 

 

You're another one to say you don't hate these people personally. But read through some of these posts. People say some pretty hateful stuff about the people running the team. Some of it, if not hateful, is incredibly rude and baseless. 

I agree with you Superman. It's hard to read what some write on here.

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Yeah, and that's what makes it difficult to police (if that's the right word).  I think the best thing mods can do is be mindful of what issues cause the greatest heartburn around here, and be more willing to merge threads.  If people want to get offended at every litte thing, there's nothing we can do about it except assume it will happen.  If we can identify those threads sooner rather than later, it should be a problem to merge or lock it based on precedent threads of the same issue.

Part of that is just part and parcel with being in a sports forum. Sports fans are less likely to be seasoned in internet realities and what a smart troll looks like. Combined with the emotional investment that being a long time sports fan entails, it's like fishing in a stocked pond. Unless awareness goes up and people start just ignoring the bait, it's a never ending struggle.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, #12. said:

 

No we're not career football people... or whatever you seem to be going for here.  Of course we're not directors or producers either, but we can tell when a movie sucks.  Neither are we music industry people, but we can tell when a song sucks.  No one goes to a bad movie and thinks, well, I better not give my opinion on this piece of crap because these directors and producers know more about movie making than I do.  Similarly, an NFL game is entertainment, nothing more, nothing less, and the consumers of that entertainment, those who purchase tickets, merchandise, pay for DirecTV, etc., will, until the end of time, point out crap when they see it and have wasted hard earned money on it. 

 

Beyond that, I fail to understand why some have this compulsion - a Colts fan's duty - to defend Grigson and Chuck.  Grigson and Chuck are no more the Colts to me than Lindy Infante and Jim Mora were the Colts.  I was a Colts fan long before they arrived.  I'll be a Colts fan long after they are gone.

 

Way to miss the point.

 

1) I don't have a compulsion to defend anyone. I think most of the things people say about Grigson and Pagano are wrong, and I think the way it's bubbling up to Irsay is even more wrong. Doesn't mean they can't be criticized.

 

2) I don't want to go hang out after the bad movie and listen to everyone complain about how bad the movie was. I'm not a message board member because I like group therapy, I come here because I like football and I like the Colts, and I enjoy engaging in discussion about both. Not listening to people whine and complain incessantly.

 

3) I don't want to hear your bad ideas about how to fix a bad movie, especially when you don't hold yourself to any kind of standard. You can push bad ideas on the Internet, but no one ever says 'yeah, I was wrong about that one.' Yet, if a coach uses a timeout in the wrong spot, he's "completely inept." If you want a player in the draft, and that player winds up being awful, no one ever comes back and says 'I was wrong, good thing we didn't draft him.' But we call players busts before they ever even get on the field. 

 

Long story short, it's more annoying interacting with some posters here than it is watching the Colts lose. Everyone can post however they please, within the rules, that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Way to miss the point.

 

1) I don't have a compulsion to defend anyone. I think most of the things people say about Grigson and Pagano are wrong, and I think the way it's bubbling up to Irsay is even more wrong. Doesn't mean they can't be criticized.

 

2) I don't want to go hang out after the bad movie and listen to everyone complain about how bad the movie was. I'm not a message board member because I like group therapy, I come here because I like football and I like the Colts, and I enjoy engaging in discussion about both. Not listening to people whine and complain incessantly.

 

3) I don't want to hear your bad ideas about how to fix a bad movie, especially when you don't hold yourself to any kind of standard. You can push bad ideas on the Internet, but no one ever says 'yeah, I was wrong about that one.' Yet, if a coach uses a timeout in the wrong spot, he's "completely inept." If you want a player in the draft, and that player winds up being awful, no one ever comes back and says 'I was wrong, good thing we didn't draft him.' But we call players busts before they ever even get on the field. 

 

Long story short, it's more annoying interacting with some posters here than it is watching the Colts lose. Everyone can post however they please, within the rules, that doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

  This  ^^^   QFT   ^^^

[VaAllDay757]

10 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

I agree with Superman. And the "Sio Morre" example? This is why some fans on here really don't see the issues as well. Moore was horrible, couldn't tackle or cover a flea. This is why he was released by the Raiders and now the Colts.

He couldn't tackle a flea but he was leading the team in tackles when he was with us and he wasn't released by the raiders they traded him I don't understand how someone actually would think mcnary is a better linebacker than sio moore lol

[southwest1]

3 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Peoples ability to post opinions will be respected an allowed, even excessive criticism.  Nobody is against that, as long as forum rules are met.  Now, the severity and and how it's delivered seems the debating points.  Granted, some here are upset but patient.  They know all of the obstacles dealt with and trust Irsay in his plan for continuity through the hardship will pay off in time (Marvin Lewis anyone?).  Fans criticize Grigs/Pagano but in a way to turn it around and get the players and team better.

 

Others seem bent on pitch forks and torches calling for the heads of GM on down.  This seems typical of a fan based football forums when a team meets hardship. I just want to bring into the light some facts about mid-season head coaching changes if you get your wish.  One, interim coaches never turn a season around into a winning campaign.  Here's your proof-

 

 

Now add in-

Joe Philbin    1 -3    Dan Campbell    5 - 7    Adam Gase   3 - 4 so far this year.

 

The Colts coaches and players have to expect to win games, not hope you win games. Remember 'The' Mora Playoffs rant?) The Colts have no identity, no culture anymore.  This team has to seriously look at the things it actually does well, then place everything toward utilizing that.  They must also seriously address the weaknesses that abound.  And must minimize or hide as much of these as possible.  You have to, it's who you are and must deal.

Just a few games ago, Irsay was under the belief we were a few plays away from being undefeated.  Can't let that identity walk out the door.  It's something you do each week to maintain, or grow.

Pat Kirwan once endured 4 coaching changes in a 5 year span.  He stated after-

 

"Once an owner gets an appetite for firing his coach, rather than weathering the storm of a poor season or two, the club is usually headed down a steep cliff with the end result being a bad franchise."   That seems to illustrate the above.

 

Another thing mentioned.  For the most part - "

Pat also went back and looked at collateral damage.  It is very eye opening!

 

"I went back and counted the number of assistant coaches, front office people, scouts, trainers, secretaries, PR staff and support people that were caught up in the four staff changes that I was involved with, and I wish I didn't, because it was a bleak reality.

 

There were a combined 82 people let go from those four regime changes, and less than half of them ever returned to an NFL team. There were a lot more people looking for work to start 2014 than just the six head coaches who have already been let go."

 

I'm sure Irsay has some 'football people' he can talk to.  I'm certain he and they are ascertaining what has gone wrong, and how and when can it get fixed? Or maybe the straw has finally broken the Monkey's back and he has hired an agency to search out potential candidates, either now or at the end of they year.  We'll see.

This is a well written post CBFL. A common feature in all your posts. I didn't mean to create the impression that it was a scarce occurrence BTW. Your basic thesis is that it's easy to clean the slate & dismiss an entire coaching regime & GM, but unless you have superior candidates waiting in the wings, the likelihood of a vast improvement is less than promising. Therefore, the question becomes when does weathering the storm remain foolhardy in scope & counter productive for a team's future success? 

 

I wish there was a way fans could know the depth of the coaching players are receiving & more importantly, the manner in which discipline is being applied to clean up mistakes & prevent them from being repeated. I realize that not all men respond to stern reprimands the same way & some guys prefer a more relaxed, confrontational approach to learning. I get that. In addition, I also know there is a fine line between letting coordinators & unit specialists coach without interference vs stepping in when something is being taught incorrectly or not to the HC's level of satisfaction. 

 

Maybe Jimmy does need a little guidance on the selection committee for his next HC & GM. There's no shame in that & doing so, doesn't mean that Jimmy isn't smart. He is. All I'm saying is widening the net to find the perfect fit for INDY is a wise move just to get us moving forward in the right direction overall. 

[VaAllDay757]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

To the bolded, the criticism they get around here. Yes, they deserve criticism, but most of the stuff people say about the coaches on this board is nonsense, IMO.

 

That's not a glowing endorsement of the coaching staff. I have major beefs with them. My problem is I can't really discuss those beefs with most posters because all anyone ever says is "the coaches suck, Grigson sucks, Irsay sucks, this team is an embarrassment..." 

 

You're another one to say you don't hate these people personally. But read through some of these posts. People say some pretty hateful stuff about the people running the team. Some of it, if not hateful, is incredibly rude and baseless. 

Ok but also understand this people pay goof money to not only watch this team play good football but to not make the same mistakes again that's why the frustration is there when they mention how horrible this coaching staff is handling things I understand we have basically changed most of the staff and it won't br magical overnight but some of these issues we have can be fixed at a snap of a finger better playcalling, changing personnel etc. The people will say what they feel like and that will never change win or lose

[Nadine]

3 hours ago, cbear said:

 

One thing I hope you folks don't do is what the Lakers board did.  To stem the incessant venting and internet fights, they've pinned a thread for each player.  Now you have to literally dig through hundreds of pages to see if there is something worth reading.  Now that is exhausting, which is why I seldom go there.  I think the Grigson and Pagano pins were good ideas as posts on those two are pretty much a broken records. 

 

Maybe lock threads faster?  I don't know.  This is still one of the better boards though, even with this difficult season. 

The thing is when people start posts that are not complaining, just by virtue of the topic, they invite complaints about firing people.  It doesn't necessarily derail the thread but, it's there.  We can't keep it out completely

 

or this

Then there are threads that are article links inviting discussion on the author and what he thinks.  To me it's clearly a more 'fire people' thread but, it is a media perspective and we have a history of posting these so I tend to think it's ok and easy enough to avoid if you don't care to read it

 

 

 

[Superman]

23 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Ok but also understand this people pay goof money to not only watch this team play good football but to not make the same mistakes again that's why the frustration is there when they mention how horrible this coaching staff is handling things I understand we have basically changed most of the staff and it won't br magical overnight but some of these issues we have can be fixed at a snap of a finger better playcalling, changing personnel etc. The people will say what they feel like and that will never change win or lose

 

Not really. I understand people have expectations of their team, but there's no guarantee that you'll receive a good product, or that you'll be satisfied with your experience. You pay good money to be a spectator to whatever happens, no strings attached.

 

I completely agree with voting with your dollars. If anyone feels so dissatisfied with their experience that they choose not to spend money on or support the team or the league in general, that's their prerogative. That's not the same as being entitled to a good game or to root for a good team.

[IinD]

Not sure why it's so hard to not respond to something dumb. Just don't read it, ain't that hard.

 

Irsay has lost me as a game attendee until there's a new regime. He'll see soon enough when LOS is empty and/or full of visitor fans. 

 

Put out a crap product, don't expect jolly understanding fans. Regardless of circumstances. You get big boy money, figure it out.

 

Also, this board is nowhere near crazy town. It's rather tame, nothing I read on this board is that bad IMO.

 

[Coffeedrinker]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Way to miss the point.

 

1) I don't have a compulsion to defend anyone. I think most of the things people say about Grigson and Pagano are wrong, and I think the way it's bubbling up to Irsay is even more wrong. Doesn't mean they can't be criticized.

 

2) I don't want to go hang out after the bad movie and listen to everyone complain about how bad the movie was. I'm not a message board member because I like group therapy, I come here because I like football and I like the Colts, and I enjoy engaging in discussion about both. Not listening to people whine and complain incessantly.

 

3) I don't want to hear your bad ideas about how to fix a bad movie, especially when you don't hold yourself to any kind of standard. You can push bad ideas on the Internet, but no one ever says 'yeah, I was wrong about that one.' Yet, if a coach uses a timeout in the wrong spot, he's "completely inept." If you want a player in the draft, and that player winds up being awful, no one ever comes back and says 'I was wrong, good thing we didn't draft him.' But we call players busts before they ever even get on the field. 

 

Long story short, it's more annoying interacting with some posters here than it is watching the Colts lose. Everyone can post however they please, within the rules, that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Just wanted to say, I've come back to this board a few times to say I was wrong about a player or a move I wanted the Colts to make.

 

I'm just so rarely wrong that I don't have to do it much. ;)

 

In that line, I want to admit I was wrong with my initial post in this thread, some of the comments from the fans are way more embarrassing than the Colts play on the field.

[Superman]

37 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Just wanted to say, I've come back to this board a few times to say I was wrong about a player or a move I wanted the Colts to make.

 

I'm just so rarely wrong that I don't have to do it much. ;)

 

In that line, I want to admit I was wrong with my initial post in this thread, some of the comments from the fans are way more embarrassing than the Colts play on the field.

 

I shouldn't say "no one ever says," because that's an exaggeration. It's rare, though. 

[krunk]

2 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

He couldn't tackle a flea but he was leading the team in tackles when he was with us and he wasn't released by the raiders they traded him I don't understand how someone actually would think mcnary is a better linebacker than sio moore lol

Aaron Wilson @AaronWilson_NFL

Chiefs cut Sam Barrington and Sio Moore

Retweeted by Kevin Bowen

 

Cut again!

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

Aaron Wilson @AaronWilson_NFL

Chiefs cut Sam Barrington and Sio Moore

Retweeted by Kevin Bowen

 

Cut again!

Didn't Sio Moore have a bad hip injury when he played for the Raiders? Ever since then he hasn't been the same, we took a chance on him and it failed but I am not sure since that injury he could even be the same.

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Didn't Sio Moore have a bad hip injury when he played for the Raiders? Ever since then he hasn't been the same, we took a chance on him and it failed but I am not sure since that injury he could even be the same.

not sure but something ain't right

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm just so rarely wrong that I don't have to do it much. ;)

I must admit that I do like restrained confidence CD. It's not even arrogance; It's more like intuition with consistency that seldom let's you down in the long run. 

 

I don't possess that gift myself. I just don't run & eat crow willingly when I'm wrong or miscalculate. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

not sure but something ain't right

Yeah I just looked it up. He injured his hip in 2014 with the Raiders and got put on IR. Once you severely injure your hip, usually you are never the same. The guy is so talented though that teams keep taking chances on him.

[Defjamz26]

6 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's not just that it's upsetting or aggravating.  It makes it difficult to really want to discuss anything.  You make a well thought out post as to why someone might be over-exaggerating and by sheer strength in numbers, the conversation gets drowned out by the excessive whining.  Even in wins, we've got to find a reason to be disappointed it seems, and people who just want to talk football have to scour through way more posts and threads about so and so sucks, should be traded, etc. before finding a reasonable person with reasonable criticism to have reasonable discussions with.  And even when someone does make a reasonable criticism, they're jumped on and attacked as well.  I'ts exhausting, not to mention time consuming, and it drowns out any real conversation, making it difficult to discuss anything at all.  That's just the internet, I guess, but still...when you come to know people on more than just a faceless internet like we do one another, I find it difficult to come around as often as I used to because of the excessive complaining.  It disappoints me, to say the least, to have come to really enjoy a community and then see the people I would consider "internet friends" (not all, but more than I care to acknowledge publicly) change this community into what it has become. We all get into our arguments from time to time and say things we regret, but this is something else entirely.

While so can see where you're coming from, I think it's more complicated. I think in the modern era since people here are just so used to winning and the Colts being good that now that the team is bad and fans are venting the frustrations, people see it as an abundance of whining and complaining when it's honestly normal given the circumstances.

 

When things are bad you complain or talk about it but until things get better. It's human nature. When gas prices go down people will stop complaining. When the presidential election is over you'll stop hearing about Donald and Hilary as much.

 

Notice how it wasn't like this 2012-2014? It's because the Colts were winning and appeared to be improving. But even then the moment someone would complain about the running game, Werner, the D, etc... people would immediately rush to defend it. And I think that's the real problem. People who think fandom is linked to some type of super positive, glass half full type of attitude. It's okay to say the team stinks. It's okay to say you think people need to be fired. It's okay to say a player drafted or paid a lot is a bust. But the impression I get is that so many Colts fans are desperate for the Colts to be this standout organization that does everything good and doesn't have really bad low periods like the Lions, Browns, Jaguars, Buccaneers. I know because the most common rhetoric I hear now when people talk about a HC or GM change is "Oh we shouldn't pull the pug so quick, that's how you end up like the Browns".

 

No one wants to give up on a player that's clearly underwhelming because Colts fans don't ever want to be the team like the Bills with Lynch or the Chargers with Brees. But it's natural and it happens.

 

 I would say the fans who are in constant defense mode are just as frustrating at time. I don't want to come on the board and talk about how we almost won, how it could be worse, how we showed promise,etc...

 

I want to talk about the real with people who share my frustrations. It makes the tough days easier. I think as a forum everyone needs to stop trying to define fandom as either black or white. It's really something in between. 

[southwest1]

16 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Well I'm getting real sick of dreaming about the Colts having a dominant defense. I had to do that the entire Manning Era. It sucks lol

I do sympathize with your frustrations CF12. INDY has never had a great defense. We're always gonna be a WR/TE heavy ariel assault team. I've come to accept that. We've had nice defensive pieces in the past like Bob Sanders & Dwight Freeney, but the Colts are never going to be mistaken for the Ravens or the Steelers from yrs past. If we could just get 2 RBs that got close to 200 yards on the ground every week, we'd be okay I think. 

 

I always wonder what Pat McAfee thinks. I punt great every Sunday & we still rely on Adam V. to save us with a FG in most cases. He's a team player & all, but even he's gotta be like just once in awhile can we get a substantial pull away victory? 

[tfunky14]

3 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

He couldn't tackle a flea but he was leading the team in tackles when he was with us and he wasn't released by the raiders they traded him I don't understand how someone actually would think mcnary is a better linebacker than sio moore lol

I never said McNary was better. 

[southwest1]

22 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

 I would say the fans who are in constant defense mode are just as frustrating at time. I don't want to come on the board and talk about how we almost won, how it could be worse, how we showed promise,etc...

Speaking only for myself here Df26, I just wanna see us a beat a team that always mops the floor with us when we face them...Namely, Pittsburgh & NE. When INDY does that, I will go okay, we've turned a corner here & we can hang with the Big dogs & compete for a SB soon. 

 

Giving Denver a run for their money is nice, but beating a BB squad or Mike Tomlin squad means pundits & franchises have to take us seriously now. I'm not naive. I can be patient, but you got show me as a coaching staff we can generate a lead & close out games consistently. 

 

I'm tired of sighing & saying here we go again when I watch Colt games. 

[Defjamz26]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

Speaking only for myself here Df26, I just wanna see us a beat a team that always mops the floor with us when we face them...Namely, Pittsburgh & NE. When INDY does that, I will go okay, we've turned a corner here & we can hang with the Big dogs & compete for a SB soon. 

 

Giving Denver a run for their money is nice, but beating a BB squad or Mike Tomlin squad means pundits & franchises have to take us seriously now. I'm not naive. I can be patient, but you got show me as a coaching staff we can generate a lead & close out games consistently. 

 

I'm tired of sighing & saying here we go again when I watch Colt games. 

And I think we all want to see that. We all always want the Colts to win and be able to beat every team. When you see the fans saying they want us to lose it's because they've lost confidence in the team to beat those top tier teams like you mentioned and would rather lose thinking it'll spark some needed change. And that's what it usually comes down to. We need change an accountability, not excuses.