It's Begun Already...

[21isSuperman]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-playoffs/09000d5d82631b00/The-better-Manning-Eli-or-Peyton?module=HP11_content_stream

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How is this even a

[21isSuperman]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-playoffs/09000d5d82631b00/The-better-Manning-Eli-or-Peyton?module=HP11_content_stream

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How is this even a question? I knew this would happen. All this proves is that football is a team sport. Jamie Dukes tends to say nothing that makes any sense anymore. "I put Peyton in the same class as Marino"...that's what they said about him before he won a ring. And now that he's won a ring, where's the Marino stuff coming from?

[LUCK TO THE COLTS]

Yawn....

[-JJ-]

lol. that didn't take long.

[-JJ-]

wanna merge your own thread ,mod. lol

[21isSuperman]

wanna merge your own thread ,mod. lol

Yeah , whoops. I hit the backspace, but wasn't in the textbox, so it went back a page. I clicked the forward button and it brought it back to the first post, so I assumed it didn't create a new one.

[The Peytonator]

LOL is the only response to that question.

[GoColts8818]

http://www.nfl.com/v..._content_stream

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How is this even a question? I knew this would happen. All this proves is that football is a team sport. Jamie Dukes tends to say nothing that makes any sense anymore. "I put Peyton in the same class as Marino"...that's what they said about him before he won a ring. And now that he's won a ring, where's the Marino stuff coming from?

Haters gonna hate and try to pretend like Manning didn't win a ring so they can rip on him for it. They just love the Peyton can't win the big game arguement even when he has.

Truth be told Manning has been too as many and won as many Super Bowls as Brett Favre, Len Dawson, and Johnny U. He's also won as many Super Bowls as a starter as Steve Young, Joe Namath, Phil Simms, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning and Joe Theisman,

He's also won more Super Bowls than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and Fran Tarkenton.

So let people say what they want. I know several life long Giants fans and they laugh at the arguement that Eli Manning is better than Peyton Manning as does anyone else who looks at things beyond their team's (emphsis on the word team) playoff record. People are going to try to spin it because it's something controversal.

With that said Eli is sure backing up his statement at the start of the year that he is one of the best QBs in the NFL.

[The Peytonator]

Ben Roethlessberger is twice as good as Peyton Manning.

Terry Bradshaw is infinitely better than Dan Marino.

Trent Dilpher is better than Jim Kelly.

Jaimie Dukes agrees with those statements.

[GoColts8818]

Ben Roethlessberger is twice as good as Peyton Manning.

Terry Bradshaw is infinitely better than Dan Marino.

Trent Dilpher is better than Jim Kelly.

Jaimie Dukes agrees with those statements.

If it's all about the rings then Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana are the two greatest QBs in the history of the NFL. While people will put Montana up there very few people would say Bradshaw is one of the two best QBs to ever play in the NFL.

[The Peytonator]

If it's all about the rings then Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana are the two greatest QBs in the history of the NFL. While people will put Montana up there very few people would say Bradshaw is one of the two best QBs to ever play in the NFL.

Not sure if you thought I was serious or not, but just to clarify I was being sarcastic.

I'm a Colts fan so I would never say Ben Roethlesberger is twice as good as Big P. I was trying to show that the 'how many rings have you got' argument is irrelavent.

[GoColts8818]

Not sure if you thought I was serious or not, but just to clarify I was being sarcastic.

I'm a Colts fan so I would never say Ben Roethlesberger is twice as good as Big P. I was trying to show that the 'how many rings have you got' argument is irrelavent.

Oh no I was just adding to your statement that is all. I knew as soon as I saw your Big Ben thing you weren't serious. He's living proof that useing rings along is a horriable way to judge a QB in terms of being one of the best of all-time.

I've said many times when was the last time you heard someone say Jerry Rice was the best WR in the history of the NFL because he won four rings or people down grade Tim Brown or Cris Carter because they never won one?

I am with you 100%

[tfrugal]

i dont think you just count rings. never could understand the whole second place is nothing point of view.

peyton has made it to the 'show' twice, winning once. that would count for more than just one win, wouldnt it?

[Fx Stryker]

Eli has one stellar season, and he is better than Peyton. Everyone is always anti-Peyton.

[braveheartcolt]

I don't think you can just dismiss SB rings either, when defining greatness, but it is certainly not a straight up 'qualifier' etc.....as some of the comparisons support.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I cannot state my opinion of Jamie Dukes in this forum.

[Knuckles79]

I don't think you can just dismiss SB rings either, when defining greatness, but it is certainly not a straight up 'qualifier' etc.....as some of the comparisons support.

To me sb rings is a team stat when peyton got his ring he couldnt have did it if our d didnt step up in the playoffs ! how many rings do tom brady have since there d has fell out of the top 10 ! to me if you wanna judge a position only stats for that position should be looked at! everybody that doesnt belive that fail to explain why they think that rings matter but still agree trent dilfer no peyton manning and lets say 9ers or ravens win do we put alex smith and joe flacco in peytons level no ! so i myself thinks that sb rings have nothing to do with how good and where you rank in ur position not ur fault if ur team failed to balance the team a lil better! i may be biass i little but peyton manning is the best to ever touch a football as a qb

[presto123]

Yeah.....and Lebron is better than Michael Jordan........whatever.

[Malakai432]

Yeah they also said earlier on the NFL chan that if the Pats win the SB, Brady will pull ahead of Montana as the greatest and Belichick will also be the best coach ever. If you want to go by super bowls, Bradshaw is the best QB ever, . It's a non win win argument because everyone has different opinions on the matter. However we do see that Manning is probably the most important player to his team in the history of the game, going from a playoff team, to one that was lucky to get 2 wins.

Unfortunately the media judges everything by super bowls, ohh but wait they never talk about Bradshaw because of that, "steel curtain defense." Oddly alot of people seem to give Manning the shaft, cough, cough Colin Cowherd & Trent Dilfer just to name a two out of the dozens that do.

[OldManP]

I saw that segment during the East-West game. Everyone has an opinion.

[braveheartcolt]

Do we really care what these guys think? I know I don't.

[LUVTHESHOE]

LOL is the only response to that question.

The only shame to Peyton's career, is that he has been coached by passive coaches who have always been bend but don't break coaches, who have allowed teams to move the ball at will with these soft defensive schemes.I have always said and know one will change my mind,if Indy would have had a defensive minded aggressive HC,Peyton would have at least 3 maybe 4 rings. instead we have had go the hey Peyton my D just gave up another score in the final 2 minutes system, now go win the game and make me look good approach. Then Peyton pulls it off but , OH NO HE HAS LEFT 31 SECONDS ON THE CLOCK, 4 plays later we are watching teams celebrate on our field and hearing,gooly gee we will get em next year,hardly Peytons fault!

[WoolMagnet]

I cannot state my opinion of Jamie Dukes in this forum.

.

Me either.

If I did, I'd prob get banned. :yay:

[Coltsman1788]

Haters gonna hate and try to pretend like Manning didn't win a ring so they can rip on him for it. They just love the Peyton can't win the big game arguement even when he has.

Truth be told Manning has been too as many and won as many Super Bowls as Brett Favre, Len Dawson, and Johnny U. He's also won as many Super Bowls as a starter as Steve Young, Joe Namath, Phil Simms, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning and Joe Theisman,

He's also won more Super Bowls than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and Fran Tarkenton.

So let people say what they want. I know several life long Giants fans and they laugh at the arguement that Eli Manning is better than Peyton Manning as does anyone else who looks at things beyond their team's (emphsis on the word team) playoff record. People are going to try to spin it because it's something controversal.

With that said Eli is sure backing up his statement at the start of the year that he is one of the best QBs in the NFL.

Nice post and all true points. However, Unitas won two consecutive NFL Championships in 58 and 59 before the Super Bowl era so this is just to clarify that Peyton's post season championship career was not as good as Unitas' was overall. Still though, as far as Super Bowls go...yeah your post is accurate in fact it could be argued that Peyton's resume is better since he started both games and the seasons leading up to the apperances.

Peyton actually played the entirety of both of thoses games compared to Unitas who was basically playing in a backup capacity in Super Bowl III. For what it is worth, Unitas won Super V at the age of 37. Earl Morrall was the primary starter that season but the Colts started Unitas for the playoffs through the Super Bowl. Unitas played most of that game but did not finish due to a rib injury and was replaced by Earl Morrall. Interestingly, Peyton will be 36 starting next season close to the age Unitas was when he had his last hurrah so to speak.

[MTC]

They have nothing better to discuss. It's ridiculous.. :slaphead:

[Cynjin]

I swear, some of these talking heads in the media are some of the most intellectually lazy people around. All you have to be is articulate and have a semi-decent personality. Dukes acts like the only players on the field are the QBs. Superbowls are a team accomplishment not an individual one.

[ruksak]

This iz dum

[mahagga73]

Haters gonna hate and try to pretend like Manning didn't win a ring so they can rip on him for it. They just love the Peyton can't win the big game arguement even when he has.

Truth be told Manning has been too as many and won as many Super Bowls as Brett Favre, Len Dawson, and Johnny U. He's also won as many Super Bowls as a starter as Steve Young, Joe Namath, Phil Simms, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning and Joe Theisman,

He's also won more Super Bowls than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and Fran Tarkenton.

So let people say what they want. I know several life long Giants fans and they laugh at the arguement that Eli Manning is better than Peyton Manning as does anyone else who looks at things beyond their team's (emphsis on the word team) playoff record. People are going to try to spin it because it's something controversal.

With that said Eli is sure backing up his statement at the start of the year that he is one of the best QBs in the NFL

The championship was played before they made up the name Superbowl .In fact there were 40 years of title games before that,so Bart Starr only gets credit for 2 titles then right?64 Browns and 63 Bears didn't win anything cause the title game wasn't stupidly called the Superbowl?Unitas won 3 titles,Manning was great but Johnny U kicked his butt in titles.It is like if the World Series was called something else before 1950,according to your logic those series did not mean as much.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Maureen
rude

[Bond Shane]

The only shame to Peyton's career, is that he has been coached by passive coaches who have always been bend but don't break coaches, who have allowed teams to move the ball at will with these soft defensive schemes.I have always said and know one will change my mind,if Indy would have had a defensive minded aggressive HC,Peyton would have at least 3 maybe 4 rings. instead we have had go the hey Peyton my D just gave up another score in the final 2 minutes system, now go win the game and make me look good approach. Then Peyton pulls it off but , OH NO HE HAS LEFT 31 SECONDS ON THE CLOCK, 4 plays later we are watching teams celebrate on our field and hearing,gooly gee we will get em next year,hardly Peytons fault!

Bingo

[shakedownstreet]

how many sports channels are there... how many how hours of programming do they have to fill...

blah blah blah

[rockywoj]

Before the NFL/AFL merger, would it be fair to equate those championships to winning a conference championship today, in this post merger SuperBowl era?

The point is well taken, though ... The Unitas legend was established before the SuperBowl ever came to be and to try and define championship SuperBowl wins to legendary players who played the majority of their careers before the SuperBowl era is an unfair criteria.

Championship wins is clearly a criteria in considering a QB's greatness, but only a minor consideration. Marino is without a doubt one of the top 4 Qb's of all-time imho and Manning is THE best ever that I have had the pleasure of watching during the past 45 years.

Bert Jones is also one of the best I've ever watched, but where's his accolades? Great QB on a crap team with a career cut short by injury.

Also, guess what, Peyton's dad was also a superb QB that just so happened to be stuck on a really bad team.

Championship game wins solely as a measure of a QB's greatness is mostly a travesty of a misnomer. It's a dumb argument to make.

[Jaric]

wanna merge your own thread ,mod. lol

[LJpalmbeacher2]

If Eli can win his 2nd ring he will be better than Trent Dilfer.

[Jaric]

Oh, on topic, the entire premise is just silly. Winning championships is obviously an important part of evaluating a quarterback's career. But it's not the only metric by any stretch and anyone claims it is doesn't know what they're talking about. They're just reguritating some cliche they heard John Madden say.

Otherwise we're living in a world where Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are better quarterbacks than Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, and Dan Fouts.

Now, even a person who hates Dan Marino with the fire of a thousand burning suns (like myself for example), has to admit that's rediculous.

Superbowls are a team accomplishment no matter how much talking heads try to change that. This isn't basketball where one or two superstars can lead you to glory.

[mahagga73]

Before the NFL/AFL merger, would it be fair to equate those championships to winning a conference championship today, in this post merger SuperBowl era?

The point is well taken, though ... The Unitas legend was established before the SuperBowl ever came to be and to try and define championship SuperBowl wins to legendary players who played the majority of their careers before the SuperBowl era is an unfair criteria.

Championship wins is clearly a criteria in considering a QB's greatness, but only a minor consideration. Marino is without a doubt one of the top 4 Qb's of all-time imho and Manning is THE best ever that I have had the pleasure of watching during the past 45 years.

Bert Jones is also one of the best I've ever watched, but where's hisDon't know how accolades? Great QB on a crap team with a career cut short by injury.

Also, guess what, Peyton's dad was also a superb QB that just so happened to be stuck on a really bad team.

Championship game wins solely as a measure of a QB's greatness is mostly a travesty of a misnomer. It's a dumb argument to make.bert

Don't know how old you are but Bert Jones was on 3 straight division winners and the Colts were a good team in that era.They could not get past the Steel Curtain twice who were the greatest team ever put together,and lost in ot to the Raiders one year,who were also great,had they won that game they would have killed the Broncos at home to go to the Sb,the Broncos capitalized on injuries to get there and get massacred by Dallas.The Colt's started going downhill because he couldn't stay healthy,and that eventually led to the move.So it is not true he played on all crap teams.But your points are all good ones..

[GoColts8818]

I hate having to correct people on this,but despite popular ignorance the championship was played before they made up the name Superbowl .In fact there were 40 years of title games before that,so Bart Starr only gets credit for 2 titles then right?64 Browns and 63 Bears didn't win anything cause the title game wasn't stupidly called the Superbowl?Unitas won 3 titles,Manning was great but Johnny U kicked his butt in titles.It is like if the World Series was called something else before 1950,according to your logic those series did not mean as much.please study your history.

I am talking about purely Super Bowls I am well aware that Johnny U won NFL Championships before the Super Bowl. However as we saw with Super Bowl III and IV just because the NFL team was the best team in the NFL doesn't mean they were the best team in football that year. It's hard to know what would have happened had Now with that said the AFL didn't come around till 1960 so that probably changes the arguement some since Johnny U won his world title before the AFL came around.

Also it's a little different talking about the World Series because there wasn't another league out there that had two of it's champions beat MLB's champions in two of the four title games they played in. So please don't tell me to study my history because I am well aware of it thank you.

[jriddy5000son]

I live in upstate NY, the debate is now going to be heard all around me if Eli wins today. I actually like Eli and he looks awesome lately, but cmonnnnnn man!

[shakedownstreet]

If Eli can win his 2nd ring he will be better than Trent Dilfer.

right. and since dilfer & brady are essentially equals, that puts eli one notch below peyton

[wercolts]

Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Jim McMahon, Len Dawson, Joe Namah, Phil SimmsKen Stabler, Joe Theisman blah blah blah, Peyton is the best QB ever and the MVP every year, even when he doesn't play.

[Crasher_Roth]

With some of these talking heads its all about what have you done for me lately, and Eli is having a good year and Peyton isn't even playing this year so of course this argument is going to come to fruition (sp?).

If you were to compare stats and win loss records Eli can't even stack up to Peyton, off the top of my mind I think Eli has 3 10+ win seasons. Now sure Eli could very well win another Super Bowl this year but when you have the type of defense that the Giants have its going to be tough to not win a SB, not to mention Eli has one of the best 1-2 punches at RB in the NFL. I'm not taking anything away from Eli, but he has been surrounded by a better team. Not just "weapons" (WR/TE) like Peyton had.

I would like to see how many Super Bowls P Manning could win if he was on the Giants with such a dynamic ground game and the best rush in the NFL.