Training Camp Battle-RT

[Footballlax31]

Hey again Colts nation

 

I'm starting a thing where I go over future camp battles and see what your guys opinions on them.

 

I know it is a while from training camp, but it is fun to see if you get it right and look back on it

 

RT battle

 

Denzelle Good-He was taken in the the 7th round by us last year. Heading into his 2nd season and has a full year of experience under his belt. I believe he played in four games at RT for us last year and Pagano and Grigson have both have spoken really high of him. He has made a few mental errors, but may be worked out this offseason with Philbin being the O-Line coach.

 

Joe Reitz-Entering his 6th season (all with the Colts). Started in 14 games last year at both RT and LT. He has a lot of versatility along the line. Tall standing at 6 ft 7in.

 

Le'Raven Clark-Rookie drafted in the third rd of this years draft. Played in a 2 point stance on college. Has great size and hands. Grigson has talked very highly of him and if you watched the scouts round table, the scouts were surprised he fell to the third round. He is going to have to learn how to adapt to the pro game, but has the potential to do it.

 

Joe Haeg- Drafted in the fifth round this year. Protected Carson Wentz blindside. More pro ready imo than Joe Haeg

 

One other question- Who do you will be starting at RT 5 years from know? We have a lot of young guys competing for spots and curious to see what you guys think

 

Any opinions are welcome and thanks for reading

[Bravo]

I think with the new staff and contracts for Pags and Grigs it will be different.

 

There will be no more plug and try and make it work. If it doesn't work they will change it!

 

I see the best player starting and that has seemed to be Reitz.

 

5 years from now... Anyone's guess. Probably a player we draft in a couple years. Good seems to have potential.

 

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

3 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

I think with the new staff and contracts for Pags and Grigs it will be different.

 

There will be no more plug and try and make it work. If it doesn't work they will change it!

 

I see the best player starting and that has seemed to be Reitz.

 

5 years from now... Anyone's guess. Probably a player we draft in a couple years. Good seems to have potential.

 

 

I agree, have to go with a proven player, the rest need more time.

[GoColtsWin]

Reitz should get the nod imo. But if anyone else steps up and outshines him, that's a great problem to have. 

[UKColt13]

IMO if Reitz is starting at RT we are in trouble. He doesn't impress me on the outside. He is serviceable at G, I don't like him at RT. He is a backup swing G/T. He is a good backup, but a backup nonetheless.

 

I'll take Good, who did pretty well for a 7th round rookie IMO last year, and he has the feet for the ZBS. We'll continue to develop him. In the future, I see the battle being between Good and Clark (whilst Clark learns to play in a pro system instead of the alleycat playbook they have at TexasTech), Haeg could be in with a shout as well.

 

[akcolt]

Reitz graded out top 15 RT by PFF if someone takes the job I'll be happy but I don't see it. I think this draft gives a real idea of where Good is. 

[Restored]

If Reitz is healthy, he's the starter IMO. The question is whether or not he can stay healthy. If he doesn't, I think Good slips in there at some point.

[Archer]

It's a two man competition between Reitz and Good IMO.  I expect us to go with the experienced and under-rated Reitz in the end.  But that'll make Good the favorite at RG. 

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

It's a two man competition between Reitz and Good IMO.  I expect us to go with the experienced and under-rated Reitz in the end.  But that'll make Good the favorite at RG. 

You think? I have Thorton at RG if he falters I think Harrison or Haeg get the call.,

 

[Archer]

I do think that.  I don't really believe that the RG and RT competitions are 100% separate from each other.  Philbin will be trying different combos, looking for the best configuration.  But the problem with Thornton and Harrison is that they have basically started the last three and two years, respectively, but have shown very little consistency. Thornton just can't stay healthy for any long stretch, and he plays poorly when injured.  The guy that I don't think we're going to be able to keep out of the line-up is Good, and sitting him next to an experienced, steady vet in Reitz seems to be the best alternative IMHO...

[rock8591]

16 hours ago, Footballlax31 said:

Hey again Colts nation

 

I'm starting a thing where I go over future camp battles and see what your guys opinions on them.

 

I know it is a while from training camp, but it is fun to see if you get it right and look back on it

 

RT battle

 

Denzelle Good-He was taken in the the 7th round by us last year. Heading into his 2nd season and has a full year of experience under his belt. I believe he played in four games at RT for us last year and Pagano and Grigson have both have spoken really high of him. He has made a few mental errors, but may be worked out this offseason with Philbin being the O-Line coach.

 

Joe Reitz-Entering his 6th season (all with the Colts). Started in 14 games last year at both RT and LT. He has a lot of versatility along the line. Tall standing at 6 ft 7in.

 

Le'Raven Clark-Rookie drafted in the third rd of this years draft. Played in a 2 point stance on college. Has great size and hands. Grigson has talked very highly of him and if you watched the scouts round table, the scouts were surprised he fell to the third round. He is going to have to learn how to adapt to the pro game, but has the potential to do it.

 

Joe Haeg- Drafted in the fifth round this year. Protected Carson Wentz blindside. More pro ready imo than Joe Haeg

 

One other question- Who do you will be starting at RT 5 years from know? We have a lot of young guys competing for spots and curious to see what you guys think

 

Any opinions are welcome and thanks for reading

 

[Narcosys]

Any time a coach praises a player,  I just treat it as lip service.  If he's really that good,  then he would be playing.  Until I see a player in action or at least moving up on with charts,  I really don't care what the coaches day about a player. 

[ColtsLegacy]

5 hours ago, UKColt13 said:

IMO if Reitz is starting at RT we are in trouble. He doesn't impress me on the outside. He is serviceable at G, I don't like him at RT. He is a backup swing G/T. He is a good backup, but a backup nonetheless.

 

I'll take Good, who did pretty well for a 7th round rookie IMO last year, and he has the feet for the ZBS. We'll continue to develop him. In the future, I see the battle being between Good and Clark (whilst Clark learns to play in a pro system instead of the alleycat playbook they have at TexasTech), Haeg could be in with a shout as well.

 

 

Reitz was our best lineman last year (an argument can be made for Mewhort). In years past Reitz was below average at RT, last year he was a completely different player.

[Dark Superman]

I would think it would have to be Reitz right now. I believe Clark has all the intangibles to be our future RT, but experience should prevail here.

[UKColt13]

8 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Reitz was our best lineman last year (an argument can be made for Mewhort). In years past Reitz was below average at RT, last year he was a completely different player.

 

That's more of a condemnation of our Oline last year, which sucked largely, than it is a good thing about Reitz. Best of a largely bad bunch is not that great of a compliment. Mewhort was good, AC was solid but not spectacular.

 

I just cant help thinking instead of playing a guy that is serviceable at best and is 30 years old, I'd rather give meaningful snaps to Good/Clark/Haeg in order to develop them into something that might resemble a good RT. All of these guys have much higher ceilings than Reitz ever had.

 

Good needs more experience to get better and cut down on the mental errors. Clark needs to learn pro technique and how to roll in an NFL offense. Once he tightens up his technique I'm thinking he'll be solid. Haeg is built for a zone scheme. He needs time in the weight room and needs to tighten up his pass protection before he gets a look at meaningful snaps.

 

I'd rather go for young with a high ceiling than older and serviceable at best.

[Superman]

Reitz is good enough to be penciled in as the starter. If one of the young guys outperforms him, then great, but if Reitz wins the job then that's a good thing. I wouldn't be looking to play one of the young guys just because we like their upside and want to get them on the field. Play the best man.

[RockThatBlue]

20 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

I think with the new staff and contracts for Pags and Grigs it will be different.

 

There will be no more plug and try and make it work. If it doesn't work they will change it!

 

I see the best player starting and that has seemed to be Reitz.

 

5 years from now... Anyone's guess. Probably a player we draft in a couple years. Good seems to have potential.

 

 

Clark is the future RT IMO. I think Reitz starts this year though.

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

Reitz is good enough to be penciled in as the starter. If one of the young guys outperforms him, then great, but if Reitz wins the job then that's a good thing. I wouldn't be looking to play one of the young guys just because we like their upside and want to get them on the field. Play the best man.

If Reitz wins the job, it's a horrible thing. It means the two guys we drafted that can play RT couldn't beat out a 30 year RT that was part of a terrible O-Line last year. Reitz starting again means we didn't make progress on the O-Line besides Kelly, despite taking 4 Lineman i the draft. 

 

We should play the best man. If Clark beats out Reitz or if Haeg shows he is good enough out of the gate, play whoever did the best in Spring Training and preseason. We shouldn't play a player because of upside, but we should play them if they prove they are the best fit for the job. Despite their age, experience or where they were drafted. We need to keep Luck healthy this year.

[Gavin]

Safe to say Reitz should be penciled in as the starter. If someone beats him out then great.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If Reitz wins the job, it's a horrible thing. It means the two guys we drafted that can play RT couldn't beat out a 30 year RT that was part of a terrible O-Line last year. Reitz starting again means we didn't make progress on the O-Line besides Kelly, despite taking 4 Lineman i the draft. 

 

We should play the best man. If Clark beats out Reitz or if Haeg shows he is good enough out of the gate, play whoever did the best in Spring Training and preseason. We shouldn't play a player because of upside, but we should play them if they prove they are the best fit for the job. Despite their age, experience or where they were drafted. We need to keep Luck healthy this year.

 

By that logic, if they can't beat out Anthony Castonzo, then it's a horrible thing, because he was a part of a terrible OL last year. Same thing for Mewhort.

 

That's not how it works. Reitz was actually pretty good last year, and is more than good enough to start at RT on a good OL. He's also not 30 years old. He'll be 29 in August. And there's nothing wrong with a 29 or 30 year old lineman. I'm pretty sure you wanted Alex Mack and Joe Thomas...

 

Clark is not ready to play. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I am. Haeg might be more ready, but still isn't so good or so polished that he should be thrust into the lineup out of desperation or dissatisfaction with last year's line. 

 

To the bolded, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

By that logic, if they can't beat out Anthony Castonzo, then it's a horrible thing, because he was a part of a terrible OL last year. Same thing for Mewhort.

 

That's not how it works. Reitz was actually pretty good last year, and is more than good enough to start at RT on a good OL. He's also not 30 years old. He'll be 29 in August. And there's nothing wrong with a 29 or 30 year old lineman. I'm pretty sure you wanted Alex Mack and Joe Thomas...

 

Clark is not ready to play. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I am. Haeg might be more ready, but still isn't so good or so polished that he should be thrust into the lineup out of desperation or dissatisfaction with last year's line. 

 

To the bolded, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said.

That's not right at all. Costanzo and Mewhort are playing on the left side for one, and two, they are both in a different league than Clark, Reitz and Haeg. I would of loved Thomas or Mack, but not for that price. Also, Reitz isn't in the same league as Joe thomas. I guess I just am disappointed that we are most likely going to have one new addition to the line when we drafted 4 O-Lineman. This is going to be a lot like last year on the right side IMO. Clark and Haeg better learn quickly.

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's not right at all. Costanzo and Mewhort are playing on the left side for one, and two, they are both in a different league than Clark, Reitz and Haeg. I would of loved Thomas or Mack, but not for that price. Also, Reitz isn't in the same league as Joe thomas. I guess I just am disappointed that we are most likely going to have one new addition to the line when we drafted 4 O-Lineman. This is going to be a lot like last year on the right side IMO. Clark and Haeg better learn quickly.

 

Where we disagree mainly is that I think Reitz was good enough at RT, and for whatever reason, you -- and others, by the looks of it -- don't. If someone else is an improvement on Reitz at RT, then great, but I'm not holding my breath, and I don't think that's necessary to significantly improve the quality of the OL play.

 

The problems, IMO, were C and RG. We have a new C who is likely an upgrade right away, and a ton of competition at RG. I think the line should be better.

 

Anyone who thought that drafting 4 OL meant that over half of the starting lineup was automatically going to change wasn't being realistic, IMO. Clark has potential but is obviously not ready, and Haeg and Blythe are late round guys who probably won't play right away unless a couple guys get hurt. All four guys were drafted with an eye toward the future, not because they're expected to transform the line on Day 1. 

 

If I'm wrong on Reitz, I hope it's because someone outperforms him in camp/preseason. I think Reitz is more than good enough to start at RT.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Where we disagree mainly is that I think Reitz was good enough at RT, and for whatever reason, you -- and others, by the looks of it -- don't. If someone else is an improvement on Reitz at RT, then great, but I'm not holding my breath, and I don't think that's necessary to significantly improve the quality of the OL play.

 

The problems, IMO, were C and RG. We have a new C who is likely an upgrade right away, and a ton of competition at RG. I think the line should be better.

 

Anyone who thought that drafting 4 OL meant that over half of the starting lineup was automatically going to change wasn't being realistic, IMO. Clark has potential but is obviously not ready, and Haeg and Blythe are late round guys who probably won't play right away unless a couple guys get hurt. All four guys were drafted with an eye toward the future, not because they're expected to transform the line on Day 1. 

 

If I'm wrong on Reitz, I hope it's because someone outperforms him in camp/preseason. I think Reitz is more than good enough to start at RT.

That's probably the reason I'm so annoyed, we are drafting towards the future. I was expecting Clark to be ready to anchor the RT position this year, and I've learned a lot how he isn't ready for a pro-style offense. I originally defended the Green pick because I thought he had a Troy Palumalu ceiling if he figured it out for us, but seeing these picks in a clearer light, I wish we just took Cody Whitehair in the 2nd without the trade down. Luck is going to be halfway through his career before we have a competent team around him. RG is obviously still a problem, and we need to pray Kelly is a hit or this draft could be a bad one. Really getting a bad vibe from this draft suddenly.

[ztboiler]

15 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's probably the reason I'm so annoyed, we are drafting towards the future. I was expecting Clark to be ready to anchor the RT position this year, and I've learned a lot how he isn't ready for a pro-style offense. I originally defended the Green pick because I thought he had a Troy Palumalu ceiling if he figured it out for us, but seeing these picks in a clearer light, I wish we just took Cody Whitehair in the 2nd without the trade down. Luck is going to be halfway through his career before we have a competent team around him. RG is obviously still a problem, and we need to pray Kelly is a hit or this draft could be a bad one. Really getting a bad vibe from this draft suddenly.

Microwave much? 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Microwave much? 

No Idea what your teenage slang means. 

[throwing BBZ]

5 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Microwave much? 

 

 Now that is funny!
Young, and if he has been watching OUR team for player development these last few years,

then it might be understandable.

[Superman]

30 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's probably the reason I'm so annoyed, we are drafting towards the future. I was expecting Clark to be ready to anchor the RT position this year, and I've learned a lot how he isn't ready for a pro-style offense. I originally defended the Green pick because I thought he had a Troy Palumalu ceiling if he figured it out for us, but seeing these picks in a clearer light, I wish we just took Cody Whitehair in the 2nd without the trade down. Luck is going to be halfway through his career before we have a competent team around him. RG is obviously still a problem, and we need to pray Kelly is a hit or this draft could be a bad one. Really getting a bad vibe from this draft suddenly.

 

All drafting should be toward the future...? Can't do anything about the previous four years of not building a good line. The team made a significant investment this offseason, and they anticipate getting returns on that investment immediately (Kelly) and on into the future (Clark, and hopefully Haeg and Blythe). That's how the draft works.

 

Reitz is under contract for two more seasons. Clark doesn't need to be forced into the lineup. I wanted Whitehair also, but there's plenty of good competition at RG. I'm silly for still liking Thornton, but between him, Good and Haeg, something will shake out there, I believe. If Kelly isn't a hit then this draft doesn't look good, but there's no indication he's going to be a disappointment. 

 

I don't understand what could have changed between April and now to make you sour on the Green pick. There certainly haven't been any games played.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

All drafting should be toward the future...? Can't do anything about the previous four years of not building a good line. The team made a significant investment this offseason, and they anticipate getting returns on that investment immediately (Kelly) and on into the future (Clark, and hopefully Haeg and Blythe). That's how the draft works.

 

Reitz is under contract for two more seasons. Clark doesn't need to be forced into the lineup. I wanted Whitehair also, but there's plenty of good competition at RG. I'm silly for still liking Thornton, but between him, Good and Haeg, something will shake out there, I believe. If Kelly isn't a hit then this draft doesn't look good, but there's no indication he's going to be a disappointment. 

 

I don't understand what could have changed between April and now to make you sour on the Green pick. There certainly haven't been any games played.

Nothing Green did himself made me sour on him, it's more that Clark and Haeg won't be starting most likely and the 2nd round pick would of been better used on Whitehair, who would be starting on day 1 unless he was completely horrible. If we were going to fix the O-Line, use the 1st three picks on it and get it done with two starters. I just don't like that we are putting the present off year after year when we have Luck ready to go deep in the playoffs or make a SB. We still don't have a pass rush either.

[Footballlax31]

37 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Nothing Green did himself made me sour on him, it's more that Clark and Haeg won't be starting most likely and the 2nd round pick would of been better used on Whitehair, who would be starting on day 1 unless he was completely horrible. If we were going to fix the O-Line, use the 1st three picks on it and get it done with two starters. I just don't like that we are putting the present off year after year when we have Luck ready to go deep in the playoffs or make a SB. We still don't have a pass rush either.

Not to be mean, but that is not (atleast in my eyes) Grigson is drafting players now. Same with free agency. He wants to built through the draft and develop or own talent. Yes I would have liked more pass rush, but if that meant over drafting than imo it is not worth it. Grigson has said he didnt want to reach for players for a position of need ie pass rusher. After last years free agent class and close to losing his job I think Grigson sees he has to be smart in everything he does now. It bugged me at first, but I have liked the way Grigson handle this offseason  

[Lucky Colts Fan]

I think Reitzs' experience will get him the starting job, but all it takes is one injury to either him or another starter, and he is kicked inside and now who is the next man up?

 

Good is going into his 2nd year (the magical year), but Clark and Haeg might be ready by mid-season.

 

Who wins backup RT?  I hope Clark.  He seems to have the highest ceiling.

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, Footballlax31 said:

Not to be mean, but that is not (atleast in my eyes) Grigson is drafting players now. Same with free agency. He wants to built through the draft and develop or own talent. Yes I would have liked more pass rush, but if that meant over drafting than imo it is not worth it. Grigson has said he didnt want to reach for players for a position of need ie pass rusher. After last years free agent class and close to losing his job I think Grigson sees he has to be smart in everything he does now. It bugged me at first, but I have liked the way Grigson handle this offseason  

You aren't being mean at all. I know we weren't going to reach on the pass rush, and I'm glad we didn't. It was a limited draft for them, and it would of hurt us. Just a big weakness that we haven't filled since we drafted Luck and Grigson has been in charge. TJ Green could be great, but he's a project. Everyone is basically a project in one way or another in this draft except Ryan Kelly. I feel a little underwhelmed with a lot of our picks having to learn a pro system and basically drafting backups and using up another year of Lucks career when the whole AFC South improved (especially the Jags). I'm not even really paying attention to football too much until training camp, because it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

14 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You aren't being mean at all. I know we weren't going to reach on the pass rush, and I'm glad we didn't. It was a limited draft for them, and it would of hurt us. Just a big weakness that we haven't filled since we drafted Luck and Grigson has been in charge. TJ Green could be great, but he's a project. Everyone is basically a project in one way or another in this draft except Ryan Kelly. I feel a little underwhelmed with a lot of our picks having to learn a pro system and basically drafting backups and using up another year of Lucks career when the whole AFC South improved (especially the Jags). I'm not even really paying attention to football too much until training camp, because it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

 

Yeah, the days are gone where Bill Polian is picking pass rushers off a tree.  When Mathis is gone, we are going to be in trouble.  Pass rushers are at such a high premium now, you either have to get lucky  or give up a boatload of picks to get "the guy".

 

I don't think a guy like Mathis will go anywhere near the 5th round again.  We would have to be really lucky for a guy like Maggitt or Bates to turn into a legitimate pass rusher.

[VaAllDay757]

The way reitz handle watt last season in that game he should be starting he was solid every game he played

[richard pallo]

12 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's probably the reason I'm so annoyed, we are drafting towards the future. I was expecting Clark to be ready to anchor the RT position this year, and I've learned a lot how he isn't ready for a pro-style offense. I originally defended the Green pick because I thought he had a Troy Palumalu ceiling if he figured it out for us, but seeing these picks in a clearer light, I wish we just took Cody Whitehair in the 2nd without the trade down. Luck is going to be halfway through his career before we have a competent team around him. RG is obviously still a problem, and we need to pray Kelly is a hit or this draft could be a bad one. Really getting a bad vibe from this draft suddenly.

I am not really getting a bad vibe from this draft but I wish we had drafted Whitehair as well instead of the trade down.  With  Kelly at C and Whitehair starting at RG would have been a great draft,  Reitz, Good and maybe Clark competing for RT to finish the OL line.  It still might work out but Whitehair was another plug and play player who will start for his new team, the Bears or Vikings, I believe.  No waiting on Green or Clark to develop in a year.  Hopefully they will contribute much sooner.  I was never a fan of project players or moving players to a different position like moving Werner.   With all the talent out there I wish we would forget that strategy. 

[krunk]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

All drafting should be toward the future...? Can't do anything about the previous four years of not building a good line. The team made a significant investment this offseason, and they anticipate getting returns on that investment immediately (Kelly) and on into the future (Clark, and hopefully Haeg and Blythe). That's how the draft works.

 

Reitz is under contract for two more seasons. Clark doesn't need to be forced into the lineup. I wanted Whitehair also, but there's plenty of good competition at RG. I'm silly for still liking Thornton, but between him, Good and Haeg, something will shake out there, I believe. If Kelly isn't a hit then this draft doesn't look good, but there's no indication he's going to be a disappointment. 

 

I don't understand what could have changed between April and now to make you sour on the Green pick. There certainly haven't been any games played.

 

A lot of this is in line with how I saw things about the Clark pick.  Nothing wrong with getting a high upside guy for the future when you have other guys on the outside who are ready to play right now.  I also agree with your analysis of the guard position.  I think we'll be okay between Thornton, Good, or Haeg.   Getting back to the Clark discussion to me there's really no reason for Clark to have to start at tackle ASAP when you have guys with some experience like Reitz, Good, even Mewhort(in an emergency) who can play the position. 

 

When you look at a guy like Luke Joeckel coming from the Spread Offense at Texas A&M it appears it might have served him well to sit a little bit coming out of college because of the system and he was a 2nd overall pick.  That's how different it appears to be from the NFL.  Seems he's close to being on his way out of Jacksonville.  They already declined his 5th year option I believe. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

It won't be Clark or Haeg.      That's easy to forecast.

 

So,  we're down to Reitz and Good.       Between them, I think Reitz is the front runner,  but Good is improving and could surprise.

 

I'm thinking Good more at RG this year....     he might beat out Thornton if Hugh can't stay healthy.

 

 

[krunk]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It won't be Clark or Haeg.      That's easy to forecast.

 

So,  we're down to Reitz and Good.       Between them, I think Reitz is the front runner,  but Good is improving and could surprise.

 

I'm thinking Good more at RG this year....     he might beat out Thornton if Hugh can't stay healthy.

 

 

 

You know NCF I was actually thinking the same thing in regards to Thornton and Good.  It's not even preseason and we are again waiting on Thornton to get healthy. I don't have a whole lot of doubts that Good can play the guard position with a couple of changes here or there.