Fleener to Saints!

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I meant the Colts don't need either Fleener or Allen for $7 million. JMO.

 

No worries....    I was just curious....

 

Did you have someone else in mind to be the Colts TE?

 

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No worries....    I was just curious....

 

Did you have someone else in mind to be the Colts TE?

 

Not really, but I had the $7 million in savings applied to Wisnewski and part of a new starting CB salary.   Doyle could start.  I'd find a backup TE late in free agency or in the mid rounds of the draft.

 

If Allen gets hurt, we'll be in the same TE situation anyway, except we wouldn't have Wiz and a new starting CB.

[SilentHill]

Thank god I don't have to watch Fleener drop wide open passes again this year. Enjoy Saints.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, MarlySullivan said:

fleener has a lot of potential he really does...hence why he got the deal but he hasn't produced nore do i think he ever will. He doesn't run great routes, drops to many balls, and can't block

He dropped a total of 3 this year.....Allen had 2.....career drops, Fleener has less than Allen.      

[ColtsLegacy]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Methinks Holder is biased. 

 

Allen runs a 4.8.  About every time he tried to run the seem he was covered.  Coby got open on the intermediate routes quite well.

 

However, when Fleener tried to play Allen's role, 7 yard catch and drag the defender for a first down, he got tackled immediately.

 

Using 40 times is such a lazy thing to do, especially when the combine was 5 years ago and we have plenty of game film on said player(s). Dwayne Allen is faster than his 4.8 just like Fleener is slower than his 4.5. And as for the intermediate routes, I agree Fleener ran them but he was rarely running open. And when was the last time DA ran a seem route. What did he run, one last year?

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

career drops, Fleener has less than Allen.      

I've watched every game of their careers.  I believe this, but some just can't accept it.

 

And Fleener has played many more games with many more targets.

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Using 40 times is such a lazy thing to do, especially when the combine was 5 years ago and we have plenty of game film on said player(s). Dwayne Allen is faster than his 4.8 just like Fleener is slower than his 4.5. And as for the intermediate routes, I agree Fleener ran them but he was rarely running open. And when was the last time DA ran a seem route. What did he run, one last year?

Allen is tougher.  He has to be because he doesn't get separation.  He is the AJ of TEs who can make contested catches.  And yes, there is a reason he runs few seem routes.

 

But that's okay with me, because I want him to be more of a Ken Dilger TE than a Marcus Pollard/Dallas Clark TE.  Of course, Doyle could do that too for about $6.5 million dollars less.

[ColtsLegacy]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Allen is tougher.  He has to be because he doesn't get separation.  He is the AJ of TEs who can make contested catches.  And yes, there is a reason he runs few seem routes.

 

But that's okay with me, because I want him to be more of a Ken Dilger TE than a Marcus Pollard/Dallas Clark TE.  Of course, Doyle could do that too for about $6.5 million dollars less.

 

Right, and about 12% as well. Jesus...

 

And if you want to talk about separation issues, when did Fleener ever make a catch where a defender wasn't right on his butt? Very rarely. And how many did he drop because a defender was right on his butt? Too many (don't worry they're not statistical drops).

[Derek George]

On the bright side Comp Picks 

[csmopar]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I've watched every game of their careers.  I believe this, but some just can't accept it.

 

And Fleener has played many more games with many more targets.

Exactly 

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Right, and about 12% as well. Jesus...

 

And if you want to talk about separation issues, when did Fleener ever make a catch where a defender wasn't right on his butt? Very rarely. And how many did he drop because a defender was right on his butt? Too many (don't worry they're not statistical drops).

He made some fantastic contested catches.

 

The Colts have moved on from Fleener and will go with Allen.  I'm fine with that. Instead of Fleener, they will run more 3 wide with Dorsett.  Meaning Allen will be back to blocking alot.  I'd rather have Dorsett on the field than Fleener, but I'd rather have Doyle blocking or barreling over a defender after a 7 yard catch for 6.5 million dollars less than what we will be paying Allen to do it.

[BOTT]

52 minutes ago, csmopar said:

He dropped a total of 3 this year.....Allen had 2.....career drops, Fleener has less than Allen.      

Dwayne's drops were of the Dallas Clark variety...."darn it"

 

Coby's were of the "holy f'ing %, you kidding me" variety.

[snkdy]

 

[pgt_rob]

Saints fans are ecstatic over the signing of Fleener. He's a good guy and wish him the best of luck there. I think the 1 horrendous drop during the Washington game ruined it for Colts fans, other than that he was pretty decent. Scared to take a hit and always went down with a finger touching him, I guess that's why he's never hurt.

[JH8788]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Not really, but I had the $7 million in savings applied to Wisnewski and part of a new starting CB salary.   Doyle could start.  I'd find a backup TE late in free agency or in the mid rounds of the draft.

 

If Allen gets hurt, we'll be in the same TE situation anyway, except we wouldn't have Wiz and a new starting CB.

What would make you comfortable with Doyle as our starting TE??????

[rock8591]

4 minutes ago, JH8788 said:

What would make you comfortable with Doyle as our starting TE??????

 

It's no different than having a Daniel Graham as a starting TE.

[JH8788]

4 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

 

It's no different than having a Daniel Graham as a starting TE.

Did defenses stress over how to stop him??? Sure didn't.

[rock8591]

14 minutes ago, JH8788 said:

Did defenses stress over how to stop him??? Sure didn't.

 

Exactly. Being weak at one position on a team is not a bad thing. Being weak in multiple positions is a problem.

 

Because of salary cap, luxury tax, etc, etc, etc...it's not possible for a team to be great or even good at each position. If weakening one position means strengthing 1-2 other positions, it's worth it.

[JH8788]

Just now, rock8591 said:

 

Exactly. Being weak at one position on a team is not a bad thing. Being weak in multiple positions is a problem.

 

Because of salary cap, luxury tax, etc, etc, etc...it's not possible for a team to be great or even good at each position.

Oh of course not. You only can be loaded on both sides of the ball for so long before players leave via FA. Just ask the World Champs & to some degree the Bengals. Even Seattle after they won it all.

[OHColtfan]

4 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

What part of it can you not agree with? Just curious, cause Allen is a do it all TE who is an amazing blocker, whilst Fleener is more of a vertical threat. This team has plenty of options for the long ball already with TY, Donte and Phil, so a more balanced TE would make more sense, would it not?

just never been wowed by Allen. Besides the health thing, aside from his first season here he just doesn't stand out to me as a guy worth that contract. Holder says that Allen can do what Fleener does- but he has never come close to the production of Fleener.  Fleener 50+ catches last three years, Allen disappeared from the offense at times for long stretches.(check his game logs for last two years http://www.nfl.com/player/dwayneallen/2533046/gamelogs?season=2015 ) Best game last year- 3 catches for 23 yards. Just don't believe Allen can be the pass catching TE that Fleener is, but better blocker absolutely. But $7mil/yr because he is a better blocker? JMO but wouldn't have paid that

[JH8788]

20 minutes ago, OHColtfan said:

just never been wowed by Allen. Besides the health thing, aside from his first season here he just doesn't stand out to me as a guy worth that contract. Holder says that Allen can do what Fleener does- but he has never come close to the production of Fleener.  Fleener 50+ catches last three years, Allen disappeared from the offense at times for long stretches.(check his game logs for last two years http://www.nfl.com/player/dwayneallen/2533046/gamelogs?season=2015 ) Best game last year- 3 catches for 23 yards. Just don't believe Allen can be the pass catching TE that Fleener is, but better blocker absolutely. But $7mil/yr because he is a better blocker? JMO but wouldn't have paid that

You're spot on with everything you said, but in defense of Allen, he was tragically misused last year along with Fleener & if we're gonna be honest, both were relatively misused since they were drafted. Fleener was a non factor in BA's offense but Allen wasn't their rookie year. When Reggie tore his ACL & Dwayne injured his hip then 2nd year, then Andrew started to throw Coby the ball more. 3rd year, while they became the 1st TE duo in NFL history to have 8 TDs a piece, Dwayne had only 29 rec for 395 yds & Coby did post career highs in TDs & receiving yards, I felt there were plays for him that were left on the field. This past season was just a flat out disaster & I still can't believe we finished 8-8 minus Andrew for 9 games.

 

It was sad to see Coby go & while we did pay a bit too much to keep Dwayne, I'm glad he's still a Colt but these next 4 years is put up or shut up time for him. He has to stay on the field & ball out.

[MPStack]

Wonder if the Colts will get any Comp. pick for him next year.

[NewColtsFan]

 

Here's a little more about Coby's money....    Nice for him...

 

Tom Pelissero 

 

✔‎@TomPelissero

Coby Fleener's 5-year, $36M deal with #Saints includes $14.6M fully guaranteed. First trigger: another $3.4M becomes fully gtd March 2018.

6:23 PM - 9 Mar 2016

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[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Wonder if the Colts will get any Comp. pick for him next year.

 

I'm pretty sure we will...   the question is what type of pick....    Superman knows more about this, perhaps he'll see this and weigh in......

 

 

[Gavin]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Here's a little more about Coby's money....    Nice for him...

 

Tom Pelissero 

 

✔‎@TomPelissero

Coby Fleener's 5-year, $36M deal with #Saints includes $14.6M fully guaranteed. First trigger: another $3.4M becomes fully gtd March 2018.

6:23 PM - 9 Mar 2016

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Comes down to 2 years guaranteed deal by my (shaky) math. $7,200,000.00 average over the life of the contract

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Comes down to 2 years guaranteed deal by my (shaky) math. $7,200,000.00 average over the life of the contract

 

Yes.....   if Coby gives them two good years,  he'll get at least one more year --- maybe more.    

 

[Defjamz26]

I think this will be the first time in about 7 years that Fleener won't be catching passes from Andrew Luck.

[pgt_rob]

 

From a few years ago but it shows that Fleener was never aggressive enough after the catch. Dwayne can make some catches in tight windows and still muscle through people. Not trying to bash Fleener but when Dwayne is used properly, good things will happen.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Contract Details via Spotrac:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/coby-fleener/

 

[ColtsLegacy]

1 hour ago, pgt_rob said:

 

From a few years ago but it shows that Fleener was never aggressive enough after the catch. Dwayne can make some catches in tight windows and still muscle through people. Not trying to bash Fleener but when Dwayne is used properly, good things will happen.

 

Great video. All the doubters who forget how good DA is need to watch.

 

I mean for a slow guy who can't run a route past 7 yards, he sure looked quite fast and was open 10+ yards downfield a whole bunch. And no defender wanted to be in his way after he caught the ball.

[krunk]

Hope the Saints don't think they are getting a Jimmy Graham out of Fleener!

[BullsColtsFan1]

Good for Coby. I'll miss him in a Colts uniform.  He had some really good games and he had some bad games.  I wish him the best.

[ColtsDiva]

Not sure how I really feel about this. I'm a little bummed right now. I wish Coby all the best though. I will say this... I'm not thrilled with Ryan Grigson...I don't think he is all that as a GM....can we trade him?  I miss Bill in  a very very big way. I guess we will just have to wait and see what comes of free agency and how our drafts pan out, but I'm not getting that overwhelming hopeful feeling right now. I could be wrong...but it doesn't feel like it to me. 

[jet1968]

Good Luck to him.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Great video. All the doubters who forget how good DA is need to watch.

 

I mean for a slow guy who can't run a route past 7 yards, he sure looked quite fast and was open 10+ yards downfield a whole bunch. And no defender wanted to be in his way after he caught the ball.

It happens.  Doyle would have been there too.  Exactly how slow do you think Doyle is?  DA ran a 4.8 at the combine.  I'm sure he's faster now after the hip injury and surgery.

 

BTW, DA fumbles too.

[Surge89]

3 hours ago, pgt_rob said:

 

From a few years ago but it shows that Fleener was never aggressive enough after the catch. Dwayne can make some catches in tight windows and still muscle through people. Not trying to bash Fleener but when Dwayne is used properly, good things will happen.

 

HOW IS IT that we go from a screen proficient team where our TE's abuse linebackers to last year?  We couldn't run a screen last year if our lives depended on it...

 

Also I flippin love that Allen takes about 2 or 3 guys to bring him down every play there.  He just has to stay healthy...

[DougDew]

Somebody tell me

 

Why are we talking about Allen in a Fleener thread?  I don't think the Saints were interested in Allen, so there must be some reason.

 

Hmmmm

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Somebody tell me

 

Why are we talking about Allen in a Fleener thread?  I don't think the Saints were interested in Allen, so there must be some reason.

 

Hmmmm

 

Simple 

 

You cannot have an intelligent conversation about a player leaving without talking about the one you kept & why ..

 

Fleener leaving is only half the story .

[ColtsLegacy]

29 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It happens.  Doyle would have been there too.  Exactly how slow do you think Doyle is?  DA ran a 4.8 at the combine.  I'm sure he's faster now after the hip injury and surgery.

 

BTW, DA fumbles too.

 

Good Lord. You really have no clue Lmao.

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Simple 

 

You cannot have an intelligent conversation about a player leaving without talking about the one you kept & why ..

 

Fleener leaving is only half the story .

They are two different players who were drafted together to play two different roles, not the same role, yet people on this forum compare them.  Its like comparing Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison straight up.  The possession guy and the downfield threat.

 

The Colts didn't choose "Allen over Fleener".  They decided they didn't want Fleener because the things he does well is of little use now that they have a $10 million/year WR, another 1st round draft pick WR, and Moncrief.  Too many down field options and not enough shorter route/blocking options if Fleener was kept and Allen left.

 

Comparing Allen and Fleener over the years was always flawed logic., and was decidedly unintelligent to do so.