Joe Philbin signed as OL coach

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Narcosys said:

Wow what a waste,  his past two locations had terrible lines.  Looks like we'll continue the trend. 

 

I don't know what has you in such a bad mood....

 

Miami was the one stop that had OL problems.     But Philbin was not in charge of personnel.

 

Before that he was in Green Bay....  5 years as their OC,  and 3-4 years as their o-line coach.    Green Bay is a well run franchise.     And they loved Philbin.

 

Opinions are fine when you have the facts to back them up.....   and Philbin is a highly regarded assistant coach and coordinator.     He's just not a head coach.

 

[krunk]

So Luck now has a coach who coached Cam Newton, a coach who coached Aaron Rodgers, and a coach who coached Peyton Manning.  That's a good knowledge base to turn to.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Okay, I'll give him one month in 2012. 

 

In 2013, that offense was very regular (which isn't surprising, with Flacco as the QB). 

 

Well...  if we're going to be technical,  it's closer to two months....   the 3-4 weeks of the regular season when he took over (I think in week 14?)   and the month of the playoffs.

 

But beyond that,   the following year the Ravens were gutted due to Salary Cap Hell.   Just like Sean Payton in New Orleans.     Baltimore was in Cap Hell and got rid of a lot of talent that year.    I think that was the year that they traded Anquan Bolden to SF for a 6th Rd pick.    It was bargain basement shopping time.    So,  the whole Ravens franchise suffered,  not just Calwell's side of the ball.

 

But more to the point,  he was made Indy's head coach.    I can't imagine Bill Polian making Caldwell the HC if had hadn't shown a lot as both a position coach and an OC.    And I can't imagine Peyton being OK with it either.

 

And the new GM from New England came in looking to fire Caldwell so he could install his own guy in Detroit.  And it took him 4 days of talking to those in the Lions organization to learn that everyone there seems to love Caldwell and they want him kept.    So,  he's got the job.    The new GM is keeping Caldwell.    That seems pretty impressive to me.  

 

That's a lot of people who like Jim Caldwell.    Feels odd to me to see you so down on him......    ?

 

[Happy2BeHere]

According to NFL.com

 

"In addition, Philbin will also serve as assistant head coach, NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reports."

 

Interesting but it makes sense. That was Chud's job for awhile but I don't think any of us even know or saw much of him when he served in that capacity. I'm sure Chudsy will be plenty busy and fully occupied with the offensive coordinator position.

[Narcosys]

54 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't know what has you in such a bad mood....

 

Miami was the one stop that had OL problems.     But Philbin was not in charge of personnel.

 

Before that he was in Green Bay....  5 years as their OC,  and 3-4 years as their o-line coach.    Green Bay is a well run franchise.     And they loved Philbin.

 

Opinions are fine when you have the facts to back them up.....   and Philbin is a highly regarded assistant coach and coordinator.     He's just not a head coach.

 

Rodgers had more sacks under the last 4 years of philbin than he has the past 4 years.   Fact. 

 

Furthermore people here,  including you,  want to blame Pagano for the poor defense because he's a "defensive coach" but you won't hold philbin accountable for for his O line?  Don't talk.

[NewColtsFan]

29 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Rodgers had more sacks under the last 4 years of philbin than he has the past 4 years.   Fact. 

 

Furthermore people here,  including you,  want to blame Pagano for the poor defense because he's a "defensive coach" but you won't hold philbin accountable for for his O line?  Don't talk.

 

Just like Andrew Luck is responsible for some of the sacks he gets,  so does Rogers at Green Bay.

 

And I don't know where in the world you got the idea that I want to blame Pagano for the poor defense because he's a "defensive coach."      I've never made a single post that said that,  or even hinted at that.

 

You've got me confused with other people who have said.      I'm not one of them.    Never have been.

 

Remember,  I wanted Pagano brought back.   

 

[HungarianColtsFan]

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

Why are you even still here?  Go away.

 

#dontfeedthetroll

[Superman]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well...  if we're going to be technical,  it's closer to two months....   the 3-4 weeks of the regular season when he took over (I think in week 14?)   and the month of the playoffs.

 

But beyond that,   the following year the Ravens were gutted due to Salary Cap Hell.   Just like Sean Payton in New Orleans.     Baltimore was in Cap Hell and got rid of a lot of talent that year.    I think that was the year that they traded Anquan Bolden to SF for a 6th Rd pick.    It was bargain basement shopping time.    So,  the whole Ravens franchise suffered,  not just Calwell's side of the ball.

 

But more to the point,  he was made Indy's head coach.    I can't imagine Bill Polian making Caldwell the HC if had hadn't shown a lot as both a position coach and an OC.    And I can't imagine Peyton being OK with it either.

 

And the new GM from New England came in looking to fire Caldwell so he could install his own guy in Detroit.  And it took him 4 days of talking to those in the Lions organization to learn that everyone there seems to love Caldwell and they want him kept.    So,  he's got the job.    The new GM is keeping Caldwell.    That seems pretty impressive to me.  

 

That's a lot of people who like Jim Caldwell.    Feels odd to me to see you so down on him......    ?

 

Sure, I'll give him credit for two months in 2012.

 

I'm not trying to be hard on Jim Caldwell when I say that the Ravens didn't have a good offense in 2013. I think it's just a matter of fact. They were 25th in scoring, 29th in total yardage, 31st in yards/play, 22nd in turnovers, 30th in first downs... Every area of their offense was inefficient and lacking in production. Yes, they lost some good players, but typically an offense gets graded on the numbers, at the end of the day. I don't think anyone would use the 2013 Ravens offense as proof that Caldwell was a good coordinator.

 

(Also, as a technicality, it wasn't really bargain basement shopping. They made business decisions that they thought were best for the team. Trade Anquan -- who they thought was done -- and sign Dumervil. They could have kept him if they wanted.)

 

As for his time in Indy, that's definitely more to the point. He wasn't a good head coach in Indy. Whatever it was that Polian and Manning and Dungy and Irsay liked about him, it didn't translate to him being a good head coach. I disliked the way he was promoted in Indy, and I disliked his coaching, specifically when the offense struggled, and that's with or without Manning. I'm sure he's smart and insightful and has a way with people; I've heard as much. I didn't like his coaching decisions, and I don't think he was a good coach here. I think he thoroughly earned his firing here. 

 

(And to be totally straightforward, I think Dungy was ready to retire after 2006 and definitely after 2007, but Irsay begged him not to. So Dungy used his bargaining power to get Irsay and Polian to agree to appoint Caldwell as his successor, and in exchange, he stayed for one more year. I'm not sure Dungy's concerns about who his successor would be were necessarily about who was most qualified for the job.)

 

I don't think Caldwell's a good coach now. I do believe that coaches can get better, but there's a pattern with Caldwell. He takes over, things go well for a while, then it goes south. Happened in Indy, happened in Baltimore, happened in Detroit. Maybe it improves with Bob Quinn running the front office, but just because a former New England staffer decided to keep Caldwell doesn't mean Caldwell is now a good coach. As a matter of fact, if Quinn follows the typical pattern of New England staffers and coaches, he won't have a good time in Detroit. That all remains to be seen, and I certainly hope that Caldwell does a good job, but I'm unconvinced. 

[Coltfreak]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

His work as a coordinator is impressive. I think he's a good coach, just did a bad job as a head coach.

Yep    He was a pretty hot commodity after his OC run with GB and their super bowl.

 

And he is assistant HC too, so we have 2 assistant HC both of which were OC's and both have been HC's running the offense.   Now just get him some players.

 

Maybe this just takes Pags completely out of anything the offense does and he can just work solely on defense.

 

 

[coltsfeva]

When assessing someone's coaching effectiveness, doesn't the quality of players he inherited have to be considered? The Colts need to upgrade their O-line talent.

Time will tell if this was a good move.  I do like the fact that Grigson and Pagano recognized the need for change. And I hope to see a increased nastiness, better technique and less holding penalties than this year.

 

[King Colt]

Going rom head coach to assistant is two very different worlds. The HC has many jobs to perform not so with assistants. So what a HC was with one team can't carry much water when he switches worlds. Hope this works out.

[Indeee]

I'm not thrilled with Philbin, to me we should've hired Sparano as O-line coach. Philbin doesn't/has never struck me as a guy who  brings an emotional aggressive attitude towards his players. It's why i wanted Mike Pettine for defense as well. I'm just tired of these "bland, nice guys" we keep getting stuck with in Indy. I'd take guys like Tomlin, Cable, Sparano and Schianno every day of the week. some guys with some "no non-sense fire" in them

[chrisfarley]

14 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I hate this.  

I don't like him as a coach at all in the NFL.  

  

The Dolphins are talented and that team is a total mess.

yes, he was a disaster, but whenever you add a guy that was a head coach in this league and he suddenly is running a smaller faction, I think it to be a plus because he can take that massive responsibility and channel it into a much smaller part and focus like ach-e-double-ell on it.

[SkyBane]

10 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I'm not thrilled with Philbin, to me we should've hired Sparano as O-line coach. Philbin doesn't/has never struck me as a guy who  brings an emotional aggressive attitude towards his players. It's why i wanted Mike Pettine for defense as well. I'm just tired of these "bland, nice guys" we keep getting stuck with in Indy. I'd take guys like Tomlin, Cable, Sparano and Schianno every day of the week. some guys with some "no non-sense fire" in them

3 out of 4 of those guys are failures as coaches, one at least having been run completely out of the league. I don't think you're a great judge of coaching candidates.

[SteelCityColt]

4 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

3 out of 4 of those guys are failures as coaches, one at least having been run completely out of the league. I don't think you're a great judge of coaching candidates.

 

It seems like the main metric some people use for assessing coaching ability is how good they are at screaming at players.

 

There's too much money and the players are too entitled these days for that to be a consistent method of getting the best out of them. Sure you need to be an authority figure and a leader but it's a different world (not just in football), you can't drill Sergeant people and get the best out of them. 

 

College is a slightly different case in that they're still kids by and large and are more likely to kowtow.  

[SkyBane]

3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

It seems like the main metric some people use for assessing coaching ability is how good they are at screaming at players.

 

There's too much money and the players are too entitled these days for that to be a consistent method of getting the best out of them. Sure you need to be an authority figure and a leader but it's a different world (not just in football), you can't drill Sergeant people and get the best out of them. 

 

College is a slightly different case in that they're still kids by and large and are more likely to kowtow.  

Yeah, ultimately the Tony Dungys of the world won out as far as coaching style. The guy who puts his nose to the grindstone and puts in work beside his players is going to get far more respect and be listened to more than the guy who yells "respect muh authoritah!" I mean, why do you think the entire Colts roster rallied around Pagano like they did? I don't think there's a coach in the NFL who commands the respect of his players more than Chuck at this point.

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, SkyBane said:

Yeah, ultimately the Tony Dungys of the world won out as far as coaching style. The guy who puts his nose to the grindstone and puts in work beside his players is going to get far more respect and be listened to more than the guy who yells "respect muh authoritah!" I mean, why do you think the entire Colts roster rallied around Pagano like they did? I don't think there's a coach in the NFL who commands the respect of his players more than Chuck at this point.

 

It's like all relationships, there will be differing things you can and can't say/do to people. Some players might react well to a chewing out, but only if you've got their respect and that has to be earned. I think if you walk in day one being hard butt you'll alienate more than you'll win over.

 

Leadership in sport is a fascinating subject for me, the psychology, the management techniques, they're not skills unique to football certainly. I agree too that for all his faults, Pagano seemed to be an excellent leader and have the respect of his players. 

 

Honestly with all the coaching changes we're seeing, the rumors and connecting the dots in between, I'm not surprised there were issues this season if the players were siding with Pagano and knew he was having arms tied behind his back on such things as picking the starters.

 

How do you handle that as a coach? The player in question probably knows you want him to be the starter, the other players probably know, and they also know you've been overruled. Talk about undermining a man's position. 

[jbaron04]

1 hour ago, coltsfeva said:

When assessing someone's coaching effectiveness, doesn't the quality of players he inherited have to be considered? The Colts need to upgrade their O-line talent.

Time will tell if this was a good move.  I do like the fact that Grigson and Pagano recognized the need for change. And I hope to see a increased nastiness, better technique and less holding penalties than this year.

 

Increased nastiness normally leads to more penalty,  but I agree I rather a penalty that a free shot at luck 

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, jbaron04 said:

Increased nastiness normally leads to more penalty,  but I agree I rather a penalty that a free shot at luck 

 

You're implying it's an either/or proposition. 

Good linemen don't tend to get penalised, it's normally a sign they're struggling if they're giving up holding penalties (hello 2015 Colts!). 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

7 hours ago, krunk said:

So Luck now has a coach who coached Cam Newton, a coach who coached Aaron Rodgers, and a coach who coached Peyton Manning.  That's a good knowledge base to turn to.

Maybe one of them can finally teach him to slide...

[Indeee]

1 hour ago, SkyBane said:

3 out of 4 of those guys are failures as coaches, one at least having been run completely out of the league. I don't think you're a great judge of coaching candidates.

Really? You're joking right? Whi said anything about "HEAD" coach? we are talking about coordinators firstly. Secondly Tomlin, whim I'm assuming is the one guy out of four you are not referencing was Vikings defensive staff before Pitt came calling. He was selected by Pittsburgh, like Cowher, for a no-nonsense tough grit and went to 2 superbowls. Sparano turned around a Dolphin team that was total garbage. Unfortunately it was with an offense scheme that quickly went away, however the players loved his toughness and grit, Cable yes horrible as Oakland HC, however as Seattle's O-line Coach excelling with outstanding run game and yes given up alot of sacks and hits but that's on wilson for running around and holdong ball too long as evident in second half of their season and Schianno is SO BAD that he single handed turned around Rutger and  that Billy up in NE hires him after he fails at Tampa due to a bunch of "Pros" who want to take it easy in the sunshine and we get Philbin who has as much fire as dry paint. Get your facts straight before commenting

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, SkyBane said:

Yeah, ultimately the Tony Dungys of the world won out as far as coaching style. The guy who puts his nose to the grindstone and puts in work beside his players is going to get far more respect and be listened to more than the guy who yells "respect muh authoritah!" I mean, why do you think the entire Colts roster rallied around Pagano like they did? I don't think there's a coach in the NFL who commands the respect of his players more than Chuck at this point.

I think the Hoody up in New England is respected even if he's not liked by his players.  Four Super Bowl rings will do that for you.  Honestly just about any well run team respects their coach.  Once they stop repesceting him they stop winning,.  

[Indeee]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

It seems like the main metric some people use for assessing coaching ability is how good they are at screaming at players.

 

There's too much money and the players are too entitled these days for that to be a consistent method of getting the best out of them. Sure you need to be an authority figure and a leader but it's a different world (not just in football), you can't drill Sergeant people and get the best out of them. 

 

College is a slightly different case in that they're still kids by and large and are more likely to kowtow.  

what does emotional aggressiveness have to do with screaming? I'm stating we need guys who are tough and bring a toughness and grit towards our team, not a guy like Philbin who mostly looks clueless and bored. Other than Pagano's end game speeches, when have you seen any of our coaches on sidelines getting our team fired up or getting in the face to chew out a player who clearly hasn't done their job. I never have and that's what we need to build this so-called "Monster"

[SteelCityColt]

5 minutes ago, Indeee said:

what does emotional aggressiveness have to do with screaming? I'm stating we need guys who are tough and bring a toughness and grit towards our team, not a guy like Philbin who mostly looks clueless and bored. Other than Pagano's end game speeches, when have you seen any of our coaches on sidelines getting our team fired up or getting in the face to chew out a player who clearly hasn't done their job. I never have and that's what we need to build this so-called "Monster"

 

You obviously have your opinion fixed that this is how you should lead and that this is the de facto way to do it regardless of personnel/situation.. so you're saying that if the coaches (but not the head coach) were more aggressive (without screaming though) and got in the players faces for every and any mistake then we'd be a better team. 

[Indeee]

Oh and another thing. I saw a lot of people on here wanting chuckie when you thought Paggs was gonna be axed. You think Chuckie is a nice guy? you think he whispers sweet encouraging words of wisdom to his players? Ha!! Yeah, exactly...

[SteelCityColt]

6 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Oh and another thing. I saw a lot of people on here wanting chuckie when you thought Paggs was gonna be axed. You think Chuckie is a nice guy? you think he whispers sweet encouraging words of wisdom to his players? Ha!! Yeah, exactly...

 

A lot people didn't include me... 

[Indeee]

3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

You obviously have your opinion fixed that this is how you should lead and that this is the de facto way to do it regardless of personnel/situation.. so you're saying that if the coaches (but not the head coach) were more aggressive (without screaming though) and got in the players faces for every and any mistake then we'd be a better team. 

100% YES!!! from the standpoint of "Accountability" and from the standpoint of building players to be "Monsters" on the field. Example: Everybody( Colts fans ) screams at Walden, some calling for release, a few years back for ripping off dudes helmet  by being over aggressive on a play. I applaud Walden, as that shows toughness. No other teams player is going to get the best of him. Example 2. Shazier most recently, after Bernard hit which was a monster hit, not only Tomlin can be seen rallying excitement but all of Pitts staff. You think Pittsburgh fans are calling for Shazier to be released? There's my point. They are built to be TOUGH, starting with Head Coach and filtered through assistants. We preach toughness and hire Philbin... Ha!! What a joke!!

[SteelCityColt]

3 hours ago, Indeee said:

100% YES!!! from the standpoint of "Accountability" and from the standpoint of building players to be "Monsters" on the field. Example: Everybody( Colts fans ) screams at Walden, some calling for release, a few years back for ripping off dudes helmet  by being over aggressive on a play. I applaud Walden, as that shows toughness. No other teams player is going to get the best of him. Example 2. Shazier most recently, after Bernard hit which was a monster hit, not only Tomlin can be seen rallying excitement but all of Pitts staff. You think Pittsburgh fans are calling for Shazier to be released? There's my point. They are built to be TOUGH, starting with Head Coach and filtered through assistants. We preach toughness and hire Philbin... Ha!! What a joke!!

 

To be clear, you're advocating for a one size fits all approach of getting on the players back constantly, and encouraging players to play aggressively to the point of recklessness. 

 

[Indeee]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

To be clear, you're advocating for a one size fits all approach on getting on the players back constantly, and encouraging players to play aggressively to the point of recklessness. 

 

You're a loss to the 50's my friend.

To the one's who have rebutted MY OPINION, it's clear you know nothing about "the perception" of being tough and the "factual" stance of being tough. FOOTBALL IS RECKLESS!! In today's game, unfortunately, we all know that the key is to be what I like to call "Confined recklessness" Be aggressive but do it safely. *This is a conversation for another day** In regard to the Colts, they have told us all that they want to build the team in the model of Ravens, Pittsburgh, ect.. defensively and Smashmouth hard nosed Offensively. So I ask you this? Which by the way was my point to begin with: In a world of practice what you preach, lead by example blah, blah, blah... other than maybe Monachino as we have yet to see his approach, where are the Coaches expected to build this squad as tough as teams mentioned above? Our coaches do not display outward toughness that to me reflects towards how the players play. At least with the coaches of JUST EXAMPLES mind you, that I gave above originally, the outward toughness is there and they do have proven records of building tough minded, physical teams

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, Indeee said:

100% YES!!! from the standpoint of "Accountability" and from the standpoint of building players to be "Monsters" on the field. Example: Everybody( Colts fans ) screams at Walden, some calling for release, a few years back for ripping off dudes helmet  by being over aggressive on a play. I applaud Walden, as that shows toughness. No other teams player is going to get the best of him. Example 2. Shazier most recently, after Bernard hit which was a monster hit, not only Tomlin can be seen rallying excitement but all of Pitts staff. You think Pittsburgh fans are calling for Shazier to be released? There's my point. They are built to be TOUGH, starting with Head Coach and filtered through assistants. We preach toughness and hire Philbin... Ha!! What a joke!!

 

I love Walden,but the question needs to be asked did Shazier get a penalty for what he did? If so do you think Tomlin would have been clapping?

9 minutes ago, Indeee said:

100% YES!!! from the standpoint of "Accountability" and from the standpoint of building players to be "Monsters" on the field. Example: Everybody( Colts fans ) screams at Walden, some calling for release, a few years back for ripping off dudes helmet  by being over aggressive on a play. I applaud Walden, as that shows toughness. No other teams player is going to get the best of him. Example 2. Shazier most recently, after Bernard hit which was a monster hit, not only Tomlin can be seen rallying excitement but all of Pitts staff. You think Pittsburgh fans are calling for Shazier to be released? There's my point. They are built to be TOUGH, starting with Head Coach and filtered through assistants. We preach toughness and hire Philbin... Ha!! What a joke!!

I luv Walden bro but those were 2 entirely different plays and you know it. The Walden play was an individual tussle that did not have anything to do with the play and it lacked sportsmanship. He headbutted Walker and Walker had no helmet on to protect himself. Is that the kind of stuff you celebrate? At the other end of the spectrum the Shazier play #1 did not draw a penalty. #2 Shazier actually was involved in the play. I think every one here knows Chuck Pagano would have celebrated that. I don't think you know Mike Tomlin at all to say he would have celebrated Waldens play. It did not benefit the team in any way. Why would Tomlin celebrate that?

[Indeee]

Remember the Superbowl year? Remember when we had BOB.. Bobby was tough and RECKLESS so much it ended his career and when Bob came back and started crushing people our defense miraculously improved and they became TOUGH. You think that was Dungy who got our defense turned around? Or any coach on that staff? If it was how come when Bob was hurt our defense SuCKED and we almost didn't even make playoffs. Oh here's why because an emotional, aggressive presence wasn't around. It was BOB that sparked the entire TEAM. So anybody else want to refute what I'm saying????

[Narcosys]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Just like Andrew Luck is responsible for some of the sacks he gets,  so does Rogers at Green Bay.

 

And I don't know where in the world you got the idea that I want to blame Pagano for the poor defense because he's a "defensive coach."      I've never made a single post that said that,  or even hinted at that.

 

You've got me confused with other people who have said.      I'm not one of them.    Never have been.

 

Remember,  I wanted Pagano brought back.   

 

I could swore it was you I saw a few weeks ago going off about Pagano. My mistake if it wasn't. 

 

All we can know is that Rodgers had been sacked a lot,  and most under philbin. Even with the contextual situations taken into account, we can assume they are mostly even.   So Rodgers was still sacked more under philbin.  

[Larry Horseman]

16 hours ago, peytonmanning18 said:

 

He didn't seem to relate to players very well in Hard Knocks but I think it's a good hire.  

 

He's not HC material for sure. 

[Indeee]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

I love Walden,but the question needs to be asked did Shazier get a penalty for what he did? If so do you think Tomlin would have been clapping?

I luv Walden bro but those were 2 entirely different plays and you know it. The Walden play was an individual tussle that did not have anything to do with the play and it lacked sportsmanship. He headbutted Walker and Walker had no helmet on to protect himself. Is that the kind of stuff you celebrate? At the other end of the spectrum the Shazier play #1 did not draw a penalty. #2 Shazier actually was involved in the play. I think every one here knows Chuck Pagano would have celebrated that. I don't think you know Mike Tomlin at all to say he would have celebrated Waldens play. It did not benefit the team in any way. Why would Tomlin celebrate that?

I know bro, I'm just using example of tough not really comparing apples to apples and I think that everyone us too hung up on penalties. Yes they can hurt a team ( Burfict ) but even though it would sting losing an important game, I would stull want our players to be aggressive and play hard

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think Philbin's worst offense was letting his locker room have too much autonomy.  Thus Bully Gate and the Whole O line getting blown up.  Didn't they immediately lose Richie Incognito, Jonathan Martin, John Jerry?  It might have been the end of both Clabo and McKinnie as well, can't really remember.  They had to recover from a major O line issue, and I wouldn't pin the subsequent performance on the HC, except that it even happened in the first place.

[ColtRider]

14 hours ago, IndyD4U said:

I feel like we're assembling the "Dream Team" of coaching staffs... 

 

Yeah, I went there  

 

It sure is one heck of a start towards that goal. You never know, we just may already have that capability. Just needs some exercising. We'll see. 

 

You were not the only one to think this, IndyD4U. Crossed my mind as well.  

[ColtRider]

2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

It's like all relationships, there will be differing things you can and can't say/do to people. Some players might react well to a chewing out, but only if you've got their respect and that has to be earned. I think if you walk in day one being hard butt you'll alienate more than you'll win over.

 

Leadership in sport is a fascinating subject for me, the psychology, the management techniques, they're not skills unique to football certainly. I agree too that for all his faults, Pagano seemed to be an excellent leader and have the respect of his players. 

 

Honestly with all the coaching changes we're seeing, the rumors and connecting the dots in between, I'm not surprised there were issues this season if the players were siding with Pagano and knew he was having arms tied behind his back on such things as picking the starters.

 

How do you handle that as a coach? The player in question probably knows you want him to be the starter, the other players probably know, and they also know you've been overruled. Talk about undermining a man's position. 

 

Excellent post, SCC!

[SteelCityColt]

25 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Remember the Superbowl year? Remember when we had BOB.. Bobby was tough and RECKLESS so much it ended his career and when Bob came back and started crushing people our defense miraculously improved and they became TOUGH. You think that was Dungy who got our defense turned around? Or any coach on that staff? If it was how come when Bob was hurt our defense SuCKED and we almost didn't even make playoffs. Oh here's why because an emotional, aggressive presence wasn't around. It was BOB that sparked the entire TEAM. So anybody else want to refute what I'm saying????

 

Wait a minute, so you're complaining we are hiring coaches who won't get in our players faces and make them in rabid dogs foaming at the mouth looking for babies to eat, then hold up an example of a player who played in a manner acceptable to you without coaching intervention. That seems to contradict what you're saying. A player is more suitable to play that role than a coach, because he can lead by example on the field. 

 

It's more of an example that your need different types of personalities to make a successful team, and that's not just my own opinion, there's literally reams of research into that sort of thing both in sports and the workplace. Good old Belbin (yawn). 

 

So yeah I will refute it, because you seem to suggest coaching is as easy as being a dictator with your players, if it was that easy then anyone could coach. There's a lot more to it than that. 

 

There's a difference too, between playing tough and playing nasty. 

[SteelCityColt]

45 minutes ago, Indeee said:

To the one's who have rebutted MY OPINION, it's clear you know nothing about "the perception" of being tough and the "factual" stance of being tough

 

What? Am I Jon Snow?

 

I might have a degree in Sports Psychology from the Cambridge College of Learning for all you know. 

 

[GwinnettColt]

18 hours ago, Larry Horseman said:

Not sure how anyone could think this is a bad hire, but I'm sure some will find a way...

Because it has nothing to do with hiring Nick Saban or Jon Gruden.