Joe Philbin signed as OL coach

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

If Pagano God forbid; becomes ill again, it very well could be the case Superman. Highly unlikely yes, but not impossible either I'm afraid. 

 

That's why who your #2 is so crucial during a season as we already endured with Bruce Arians.

Just because you dislike this hire doesn't mean you have to grasp at every straw to make it negative. I have no clue as how this is going to turn out but I am not going to sit around brooding over it and thinking of things to be negative about things that don't even exist yet?

[southwest1]

2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I don't think your #2 coach is as important as say your backup QB.

I mean, how often do HC's go down in a season? 

It wouldn't be the first time that Cancer came back with a vengeance years later SCC. I have relatives in my own family who can attest to that reality personally. Naturally, I pray for Pagano's continued bill of clean health but I am a realist as well. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

If Pagano God forbid; becomes ill again, it very well could be the case Superman. Highly unlikely yes, but not impossible either I'm afraid. 

 

That's why who your #2 is so crucial during a season as we already endured with Bruce Arians.

 

1) That situation is incredibly rare. The purpose of assistant head coaches isn't to fill in if your head coach gets sick.

 

2) You're assuming that Philbin would be next in line if Pagano needed to be replaced, and that's entirely speculative. In fact, I would assume that Chud would be next in line, not Philbin.

 

3) You don't grade an OL coach hire on the basis of whether he'd be a good fill in for your head coach.

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, southwest1 said:

It wouldn't be the first time that Cancer came back with a vengeance years later SCC. I have relatives in my own family who can attest to that reality personally. Naturally, I pray for Pagano's continued bill of clean health but I am a realist as well. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. 

 

Even if that was to happen there's no guarantee it would be Philbin stepping into his shoes. Chud might for one. 

 

 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

No....but let's say this.

 

 

A head coach is in charge of his team, they get the blame, they get the glory if the team booms or busts.

 

If I'm a head coach with an OL background and I'm watching my star QB take a ton of sacks and hits, you best bet your bottom dime that I'm getting  in the OL coaches butt or completely taking over for him if he isn't performing. Period.

 

Same way if I'm a head coach with a D background, if the D isn't routinely performing, you best bet that coach is getting some extra motivation and if needed, relieved. 

 

Does that create hostility, sure  but when your franchise and young QB is at risk, I don't give a dang.

 

I have looked at his resume, I'm really not impressed....at all. Even Rodgers was pounder with this cat at the controls of the OL. 

 

I'll give him a chance but if it doesn't improve the OL, I'll be pointing back to this thread......

 

1) The head coach doesn't coach the OL. Neither does the OC. The OL coach does.

 

2) Philbin was never the OL coach when Rodgers was the QB. He was the coordinator.

 

3) Aaron Rodgers has one of the highest sack percentages of any QB in league history. He is known for holding the ball too long, which often works out for him, but it's a blemish on his otherwise very impressive record. The sacks that Rodgers took when Philbin was the coordinator -- and still takes -- are more about Rodgers' preference to take a sack then throw a pick.

 

4) Ryan Tannehill also holds the ball too long and takes too many sacks. 

[southwest1]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just because you dislike this hire doesn't mean you have to grasp at every straw to make it negative. I have no clue as how this is going to turn out but I am not going to sit around brooding over it and thinking of things to be negative about things that don't even exist yet?

I could flip your argument on it's head & say what makes you such an optimist that Phil-bin's hire will lead to greater offensive success? Remember, Aaron Roger's quick release of the ball as well as accuracy on the move also helped the Packers line while Joe was on the sidelines in WI too. 

 

I may have extreme reluctance toward Joe's ability to protect Luck, but it's no worse than some INDY fans who have blind euphoria that Chewbacca will reach an improved completion percentage thru the air in the next couple of seasons as well.

[krunk]

47 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Because I respect krunk's high IQ & football intuition, I will wait & see how this plays out. I need to thumb thru the rest of this thread & see what Gavin thinks who watches a ton of tape & I also value his feedback/impressions as well. Be right back. 

That's about all we can do with this one SW1. It wasn't my first choice either, but he does have a long resume coaching OL so we will see. Plus he is a good piece to have in place if Chud ever left. I do have some doubts that need to be settled.

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I could flip your argument on it's head & say what makes you such an optimist that Phil-bin's hire will lead to greater offensive success? Remember, Aaron Roger's quick release of the ball as well as accuracy on the move also helped the Packers line while Joe was on the sidelines in WI too. 

 

I may have extreme reluctance toward Joe's ability to protect Luck, but it's no worse than some INDY fans who have blind euphoria that Chewbacca will reach an improved completion percentage thru the air in the next couple of seasons as well.

What you seen to overlook is the coaching staff is a team effort. Like I said, I have no clue as to how this is going to turn out but how is it you seem to know? Coaches just like players do get better with experience.

[southwest1]

28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

1) That situation is incredibly rare. The purpose of assistant head coaches isn't to fill in if your head coach gets sick.

 

2) You're assuming that Philbin would be next in line if Pagano needed to be replaced, and that's entirely speculative. In fact, I would assume that Chud would be next in line, not Philbin.

 

3) You don't grade an OL coach hire on the basis of whether he'd be a good fill in for your head coach.

3) Experience in the NFL often dictates who the 2nd in command on the field will be not position alone in most established organizations. But, I will concede that the chemistry a coordinator in the locker room does play a vital role in who takes over in the face of unforeseen diversity. I will give you that one. 

 

1) I did say that this circumstance is "highly unlikely yes, but not impossible" correct? Just when you think the unthinkable can't transpire, it typically does.

 

2) I assume nothing until I am mandated to make that decision when the situation warrants it. I'm not disagreeing with you on the Chud fall back position Supes, but Jimmy has final say on HC placeholder should Chuck need to temporarily step away for awhile. 

 

I apologize if my words came across as abrasive or harsh in any way, shape, or form. That was not my intention toward you or any other forum member BTW. 

[krunk]

22 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I could flip your argument on it's head & say what makes you such an optimist that Phil-bin's hire will lead to greater offensive success? Remember, Aaron Roger's quick release of the ball as well as accuracy on the move also helped the Packers line while Joe was on the sidelines in WI too. 

 

I may have extreme reluctance toward Joe's ability to protect Luck, but it's no worse than some INDY fans who have blind euphoria that Chewbacca will reach an improved completion percentage thru the air in the next couple of seasons as well.

I'm also excited to see this zone blocking scheme we will probably be installing with Chud and Philbin. We will see but I am pretty confident the offense is going to find the end zone again under Chud and Philbin. My expectations will be high. I'm expecting a much better unit than last year.

[will426]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

Joe was the HC in Miami & presumably he oversaw all his coordinators right including his o-line coach correct? I seem to recall Ryan Tannehill getting sacked frequently. True, part of that is poor QB decision making & part of that is a lack of time to throw. 

 

Don't pardon Phil-bin simply because it's a difference in responsibilities. You can either protect your field general or you can't. 

I understand that but you can't also assume he isn't the one teaching because that's not quite his job anymore. If he planned on helping that line himself he wouldn't have hired someone as a oline coach in Miami. Like for example Hue Jackson  recently just spoke on not hiring an Oc for the Browns because basically that's what got him hired and he's there to change that specific area mainly..I mean unless they state that's exactly what they're gonna focus on we can't assume he had any involvement in the teachings but yeah

[southwest1]

12 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

What you seen to overlook is the coaching staff is a team effort. Like I said, I have no clue as to how this is going to turn out but how is it you seem to know? Coaches just like players do get better with experience.

True CC1, winning football is a team effort down to the coaches, players, trainers, medical staff, & even secretaries who print out crucial memos & other itinerary during a long season etc. etc. 

 

But, there's a difference between passion, talent, instruction, & comprehension. A player can have all the raw talent in the world & not be able to apply it when necessary. A coordinator can excel at devising game plans & not be able to explain them effectively in a timely fashion for victory. A player can have a strong desire to perform well & still cringe under the lights: Sam Bradford, Johnny Manziel. 

 

I will give you this CC1. I'm a firm believer in 2nd chances among coaches & coordinators in new settings. So, I will be fair to Phil-bin strict but fair meaning I will give Joe 6-7 games to find the right line configuration next year. Mostly, I want see holes open up for Gore & Boom consistently week to week. 

 

I just want to see Luck scramble less with fewer pocket implosions. 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

True CC1, winning football is a team effort down to the coaches, players, trainers, medical staff, & even secretaries who print out crucial memos & other itinerary during a long season etc. etc. 

 

But, there's a difference between passion, talent, instruction, & comprehension. A player can have all the raw talent in the world & not be able to apply it when necessary. A coordinator can excel at devising game plans & not be able to explain them effectively in a timely fashion for victory. A player can have a strong desire to perform well & still cringe under the lights: Sam Bradford, Johnny Manziel. 

 

I will give you this CC1. I'm a firm believer in 2nd chances among coaches & coordinators in new settings. So, I will be fair to Phil-bin strict but fair meaning I will give Joe 6-7 games to find the right line configuration next year. Mostly, I want see holes open up for Gore & Boom consistently week to week. 

 

I just want to see Luck scramble less with fewer pocket implosions. 

What you want is no different than what any Colt fan wants. But my thought are just because a coach is not a outward rah rah guy does not mean he don't have passion. Dungy was not the type of coach to show emotion but because he was who he was, it wasn't thought of as a problem. Every coach has their own way of doing things. The key is knowing your players and knowing what it takes to motivate them. Some players respond to being yelled at while some just turn off with being yelled at. Just because you don't care for Philbin at least you could do is show enough respect to use his correct name.

[krunk]

The main thing I'm reading on the Offensive line issues in Miami is the front office kept supplying Philbin and his coaches with substandard talent.

[southwest1]

22 minutes ago, will426 said:

I understand that but you can't also assume he isn't the one teaching because that's not quite his job anymore. If he planned on helping that line himself he wouldn't have hired someone as a oline coach in Miami. Like for example Hue Jackson  recently just spoke on not hiring an Oc for the Browns because basically that's what got him hired and he's there to change that specific area mainly..I mean unless they state that's exactly what they're gonna focus on we can't assume he had any involvement in the teachings but yeah

I get what you're driving at W426. Part of being a coach is delegating responsibilities to others, trusting them to execute those duties well, & not breathing down a coordinator's next every 5 minutes. 

 

I will give time for Phil-bin to show his stuff in INDY but given his experience that learning curve leash better be short because I don't wanna see Luck with a lacerated kidney or multiple broken ribs again. Please protect this man & don't turn him into David Carr 2.0 Joe. That's all I ask & given Tannehill's regressions in Miami that Phil-bin not to duplicate this trend. Thank you

[southwest1]

25 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

What you want is no different than what any Colt fan wants. But my thought are just because a coach is not a outward rah rah guy does not mean he don't have passion. Dungy was not the type of coach to show emotion but because he was who he was, it wasn't thought of as a problem. Every coach has their own way of doing things. The key is knowing your players and knowing what it takes to motivate them. Some players respond to being yelled at while some just turn off with being yelled at. Just because you don't care for Philbin at least you could do is show enough respect to use his correct name.

What are you referring to exactly? If I don't hyphenate Joe's last name my safari web browser alters the spelling of his last name CC1. What more disrespectful inserting a dash in his last name or having my computer misspell it worse on it's own? 

 

I'm not upset at you personally & I'm not that petty toward Joe. I'm just explaining the reason for my self imposed - on his surname that's all. 

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

What are you referring to exactly? If I don't hyphenate Joe's last name my safari web browser alters the spelling of his last name CC1. What more disrespectful inserting a dash in his last name or having my computer misspell it worse on it's own? 

 

How was I suppose to know that? Now that you have made that clear, my bad.

[krunk]

Another thing I think light should be shed on is Tannehill never had any worthwhile receivers to throw to. That certainly aids in a quarterback holding the football too long and taking sacks. I mean the guy had to deal with Brian Hartline and Devon Bess as starters on top of a mediocre ground game outside of that one season with Reggie Bush. They got Jarvis Landry I believe last year and he is good but mostly a slot guy to me. And they finally decided to get some speed this year with Devonte Parker but he is still a rookie. In looking at the Dolphins I can kind of agree a major part of their line and offensive problems came from lack of talent more than it being a Philbin problem.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just because you dislike this hire doesn't mean you have to grasp at every straw to make it negative. I have no clue as how this is going to turn out but I am not going to sit around brooding over it and thinking of things to be negative about things that don't even exist yet?

Be easy on him.

after all, he makes no bones about being a CRAZYcolt1.

[krunk]

When you look at what Philbin was given to work with on offense the record he ended up with is about right. A couple games south of .500. I bet Mike Pettine or some other guy like that would have done much worse. Heck Pettine had a team in Cleveland that had a similar build and did do worse. Much worse.

[southwest1]

3 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Be easy on him.

after all, he makes no bones about being a CRAZYcolt1.

It's okay, we're all friends here. No harm done. Thanks for making me chuckle though WM. 

 

In CC1's defense, I could see how he might think my dash meant or inferred that Joe's skills were as lousy as putting Phil-bin in a trash bin & starting over on INDY's line. No worries. It's all good man. 

[krunk]

Just to add to what Superman said Philbin was Never the Packers O line coach at any point while Rogers was the QB. He was only the OC and a very good one at that. From what I have seen Philbin was OL coach during a portion of Brett Favres time at QB. I have to say I never saw Brett Favre with a bad line. He usually had a lot of time to throw.

[gacoop1]

It would be a good hire if our oline prevents Luck from camping in the backfield.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Just to add to what Superman said Philbin was Never the Packers O line coach at any point while Rogers was the QB. He was only the OC and a very good one at that. From what I have seen Philbin was OL coach during a portion of Brett Favres time at QB. I have to say I never saw Brett Favre with a bad line. He usually had a lot of time to throw.

Correct. I know his time with Miami didn't turn out well but there was a reason he was well thought of when he was picked to be the head coach.

[WoolMagnet]

12 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

It's okay, we're all friends here. No harm done. Thanks for making me chuckle though WM. 

 

In CC1's defense, I could see how he might think my dash meant or inferred that Joe's skills were as lousy as putting Phil-bin in a trash bin & starting over on INDY's line. No worries. It's all good man. 

My emotions on ALL these topis have literally been from one extreme to the other and back again.

i'm do gonfused about this team that i just decided to wait until next year like every other year.  Lifes not that bad really.

(and throw some bad jokes around like usual)

[WoolMagnet]

16 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

It's okay, we're all friends here. No harm done. Thanks for making me chuckle though WM. 

 

In CC1's defense, I could see how he might think my dash meant or inferred that Joe's skills were as lousy as putting Phil-bin in a trash bin & starting over on INDY's line. No worries. It's all good man. 

I also think hard knocks painted him in a bad light.  How can u like the guy who fired ovho cinco?  I mean really.

he also seemed distant from his players.  I went away from watching him on hard knocks kinda not liking him too.

but i'm gonna give him a clean slate.  He has done well coaching in the past.  Its funny eith wll the firings every year we dont reslize how difficult the head coaching job is.  At any time it seems there are only 6 or so "really good ones".  So much affects thrir duccess that is out of their hands.

[krunk]

From what I can tell Philbin coached O line with the Pack from 2003-2006. Larry Beightol was the head O Line coach and Philbin was Assistant O Line coach.  I only show Philbin as the Head Oline coach in 2006 so it appears Larry Beightol was the Packers head O line coach for most of that time period.  I don't know how much credit to give Phlbin for the Packers lines of that time period.  Seems it was more Beightol but I don't know.

 

I know in 2003 the Packers had the best or were assumed to be the best in the league on the O Line

Packers have best OL in NFL

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1887354

[will426]

2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I get what you're driving at W426. Part of being a coach is delegating responsibilities to others, trusting them to execute those duties well, & not breathing down a coordinator's next every 5 minutes. 

 

I will give time for Phil-bin to show his stuff in INDY but given his experience that learning curve leash better be short because I don't wanna see Luck with a lacerated kidney or multiple broken ribs again. Please protect this man & don't turn him into David Carr 2.0 Joe. That's all I ask & given Tannehill's regressions in Miami that Phil-bin not to duplicate this trend. Thank you

Hell yeah I agree with you

[Superman]

3 hours ago, southwest1 said:

3) Experience in the NFL often dictates who the 2nd in command on the field will be not position alone in most established organizations. But, I will concede that the chemistry a coordinator in the locker room does play a vital role in who takes over in the face of unforeseen diversity. I will give you that one. 

 

1) I did say that this circumstance is "highly unlikely yes, but not impossible" correct? Just when you think the unthinkable can't transpire, it typically does.

 

2) I assume nothing until I am mandated to make that decision when the situation warrants it. I'm not disagreeing with you on the Chud fall back position Supes, but Jimmy has final say on HC placeholder should Chuck need to temporarily step away for awhile. 

 

I apologize if my words came across as abrasive or harsh in any way, shape, or form. That was not my intention toward you or any other forum member BTW. 

 

Interesting order of response, sir. Unless you're representing downtown Chicago with the (312) area code.

 

3) That's not really true. Darren Rizzi was the Assistant Head Coach in Miami, for instance, with a lot more coaching experience than Dan Campbell. When Philbin was fired, the team appointed Campbell as the interim head coach. Not the assumed #2. The truth is that when a coach needs to be replaced during the season, it's up to the GM and owner to decide which assistant will take over. Whatever job title they have doesn't make that determination.

 

1) I don't judge this hire on whether Philbin is a good potential fill-in for Pagano, because I don't think that's the reason for the hire. I think they hired him as the OL coach because he has good experience as an OL coach, and nothing more.

 

2) And again, I don't think Pagano's backup plan has anything to do with this hire. He's the OL coach.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Interesting order of response, sir. Unless you're representing downtown Chicago with the (312) area code.

 

3) That's not really true. Darren Rizzi was the Assistant Head Coach in Miami, for instance, with a lot more coaching experience than Dan Campbell. When Philbin was fired, the team appointed Campbell as the interim head coach. Not the assumed #2. The truth is that when a coach needs to be replaced during the season, it's up to the GM and owner to decide which assistant will take over. Whatever job title they have doesn't make that determination.

 

1) I don't judge this hire on whether Philbin is a good potential fill-in for Pagano, because I don't think that's the reason for the hire. I think they hired him as the OL coach because he has good experience as an OL coach, and nothing more.

 

2) And again, I don't think Pagano's backup plan has anything to do with this hire. He's the OL coach.

Sometimes when things are broke down to it's simplest form it makes the arrows bounce off.

[Larry Horseman]

7 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Contrary to popular belief, I deplore this hire. Phil-bin doesn't instill confidence in the men around him at all either as a coordinator or head coach. I agree with Ricker182. I just don't see this move leading to more protection for Luck at all. 

 

Yes, I know. SW1 was totally wrong about retaining Pagano & Grigson too so I realize that my track record on the direction of the Colts is worthless & way off. 

 

I just am familiar with GB football a lot & inspirational is not an adjective I would use to describe Joe. Perhaps, he is excellent at alignment & gap control along with edge containment but I'm not overly optimistic right now.   

 

I'm open to being pleasantly surprised though. I was just never enamored with Joe personally. Usually good communicators make good coordinators & Joe is bland at best, but then again Chuck Noll won multiple championships for Pittsburgh too so what the hades language can be overrated occasionally I guess. 

He does come off as a a wet blanket. That said, he brings years of OL coaching experience, as well as OC and HC experience. He needs to dial in a unit, not the whole offence or team, and also can support Chud in schemes and game planning. I feel good about him having that role. It's an upgrade. 

[krunk]

10 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I get what you're driving at W426. Part of being a coach is delegating responsibilities to others, trusting them to execute those duties well, & not breathing down a coordinator's next every 5 minutes. 

 

I will give time for Phil-bin to show his stuff in INDY but given his experience that learning curve leash better be short because I don't wanna see Luck with a lacerated kidney or multiple broken ribs again. Please protect this man & don't turn him into David Carr 2.0 Joe. That's all I ask & given Tannehill's regressions in Miami that Phil-bin not to duplicate this trend. Thank you

Hmmmm Phil-Bin? So you're trying to say the hiring of Phil-Bin is synonymous with "Filling A Trash Bin".I see what you are doing here SW1! LOL

[bleevit]

While IMO Philbin would have been a terrible selection as HC or OC, I think his history indicates that as O-line coach he has had considerable success.  That business in Miami with the internal O-line strife was not fixable in the short term.  The whole culture with Richie Incognito had to change.  It really threw Miami in a backwards spiral.  At any rate a seasoned coach with Philbin's experience will only help the Colts' O-line room.  I think he knows what he's doing.

[lollygagger8]

[Narcosys]

Philbin seems to be getting tons of fan support. Most seen to believe he is a great O line coach.  So no more excuses about the coaching being the problem with the line.  

[will426]

Well if we're implanting zone blocking that's the best scheme to run roll outs especially since luck is always a threat to run..that'll be a constant issue for defenses

[Jason_]

On 1/16/2016 at 6:16 PM, southwest1 said:

Contrary to popular belief, I deplore this hire. Phil-bin doesn't instill confidence in the men around him at all either as a coordinator or head coach. I agree with Ricker182. I just don't see this move leading to more protection for Luck at all. 

 

 

Here's my question...how did you come to this determination?

[Gavin]

I'm just going to wait until I see how this plays out through results or lack of results. I believe we have a physically talented O Line but techniques need refinement. If Philbin can get our starting 5 O Linemen to refine those techniques and we not only run the ball better but make a more concerted effort to run the ball then Ill be more then satisfied

[Jason_]

10 minutes ago, Gavin said:

I'm just going to wait until I see how this plays out through results or lack of results. I believe we have a physically talented O Line but techniques need refinement. If Philbin can get our starting 5 O Linemen to refine those techniques and we not only run the ball better but make a more concerted effort to run the ball then Ill be more then satisfied

 

well...I'm kind of hoping he can do the same with our depth players too  lol

[Nobody]

Hopefully he is good as an OL coach when he doesn't have to HC too.