Joe Philbin signed as OL coach

[Pacergeek]

Wasn't Philbin Vontae's coach that traded him for no reason? Not sure whey we keep hiring these people with a history of making bad decisions

[ColtRider]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

Remember the Superbowl year? Remember when we had BOB.. Bobby was tough and RECKLESS so much it ended his career and when Bob came back and started crushing people our defense miraculously improved and they became TOUGH. You think that was Dungy who got our defense turned around? Or any coach on that staff? If it was how come when Bob was hurt our defense SuCKED and we almost didn't even make playoffs. Oh here's why because an emotional, aggressive presence wasn't around. It was BOB that sparked the entire TEAM. So anybody else want to refute what I'm saying????

 

I get what you're trying to imply. We need a tough & tenacious defense. However, that course of action has already started IMO with our recent hew hires. Do not think that defenses are soft or incapable of inflicting punishment because their coach is not a screamer. Quite the contrary. 

 

Players, usually, are reflective of coaching "methods". Not the other way around by hyperbole.

[SIXTHOBJECT]

Being aggressive is one thing. But being stupid and costing your team is an easy way to lose a game.  

You play with aggression but not reckless aggression. Ya players are gonna get penalties but the star players and great teams minimize them. Why give the opposition anything. Play clean and execute you will win 9 times out of ten. 

 

 

 

[Feardaneard]

2 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Wasn't Philbin Vontae's coach that traded him for no reason? Not sure whey we keep hiring these people with a history of making bad decisions

No Vontae was talented but undisciplined and lazy. Pags worked his magic and turned him into a pro bowler. 

[krunk]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

I know bro, I'm just using example of tough not really comparing apples to apples and I think that everyone us too hung up on penalties. Yes they can hurt a team ( Burfict ) but even though it would sting losing an important game, I would stull want our players to be aggressive and play hard

 

Speaking of Giovanni Bernard I think they need to revise how they are using him in the passing game in terms of route design. It seems every time I watch the Bengals he is taking knock out shots. I don't know what's up with that.

 

[Gavin]

Don't really have any opinion about it one way or the other right now, I'll have to back to his time with Green Bay and watch some games and see if I can dig up some quotes on his time as a O Line coach. But if he can get the best out of the O Line then I'm all for him

[jvan1973]

58 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Wasn't Philbin Vontae's coach that traded him for no reason? Not sure whey we keep hiring these people with a history of making bad decisions

Head coaches don't make trades,   GMs do

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, Pacergeek said:

Wasn't Philbin Vontae's coach that traded him for no reason? Not sure whey we keep hiring these people with a history of making bad decisions

No, Philbin wasn't the one who traded him. 

[csmopar]

14 hours ago, FL Colts Fan said:

Did he coach the O Line ?  NO !!! He has vast and successful experience with tight ends and O lines. Sheesh.

Again. I'm simply asking for proof. You all keep saying he has all this vast experience but yet no one cites specific examples.......

[Superman]

3 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think the Hoody up in New England is respected even if he's not liked by his players.  Four Super Bowl rings will do that for you.  Honestly just about any well run team respects their coach.  Once they stop repesceting him they stop winning,.  

 

Yeah, Belichick has the ultimate trump card. He's obviously a great coach, but winning those first three SBs gave him a LOT of rope, in the locker room and with public opinion.

[chad72]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

And what happens with Gilbert now?

 

He will come up with his own comic character like Dilbert and make jokes about O-line play across the league (you guys can come up with ideas for the same)

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Sure, I'll give him credit for two months in 2012.

 

I'm not trying to be hard on Jim Caldwell when I say that the Ravens didn't have a good offense in 2013. I think it's just a matter of fact. They were 25th in scoring, 29th in total yardage, 31st in yards/play, 22nd in turnovers, 30th in first downs... Every area of their offense was inefficient and lacking in production. Yes, they lost some good players, but typically an offense gets graded on the numbers, at the end of the day. I don't think anyone would use the 2013 Ravens offense as proof that Caldwell was a good coordinator.

 

(Also, as a technicality, it wasn't really bargain basement shopping. They made business decisions that they thought were best for the team. Trade Anquan -- who they thought was done -- and sign Dumervil. They could have kept him if they wanted.)

 

As for his time in Indy, that's definitely more to the point. He wasn't a good head coach in Indy. Whatever it was that Polian and Manning and Dungy and Irsay liked about him, it didn't translate to him being a good head coach. I disliked the way he was promoted in Indy, and I disliked his coaching, specifically when the offense struggled, and that's with or without Manning. I'm sure he's smart and insightful and has a way with people; I've heard as much. I didn't like his coaching decisions, and I don't think he was a good coach here. I think he thoroughly earned his firing here. 

 

(And to be totally straightforward, I think Dungy was ready to retire after 2006 and definitely after 2007, but Irsay begged him not to. So Dungy used his bargaining power to get Irsay and Polian to agree to appoint Caldwell as his successor, and in exchange, he stayed for one more year. I'm not sure Dungy's concerns about who his successor would be were necessarily about who was most qualified for the job.)

 

I don't think Caldwell's a good coach now. I do believe that coaches can get better, but there's a pattern with Caldwell. He takes over, things go well for a while, then it goes south. Happened in Indy, happened in Baltimore, happened in Detroit. Maybe it improves with Bob Quinn running the front office, but just because a former New England staffer decided to keep Caldwell doesn't mean Caldwell is now a good coach. As a matter of fact, if Quinn follows the typical pattern of New England staffers and coaches, he won't have a good time in Detroit. That all remains to be seen, and I certainly hope that Caldwell does a good job, but I'm unconvinced. 

 

Good thoughtful post.

 

I'd like to ask a question about Caldwell's time here.     I wasn't a Colts fan then, so I'd like to get your thoughts....

 

What would your view of Caldwell be today,  what would EVERYONE'S view of Caldwell be today if the Colts had beaten New Orleans in the Super Bowl?      I'm guessing it would be much, much better.    More favorable?      The Saints make one of the greatest calls in SB history and recover a daring on-sides kick.   Peyton throws a pick-6,  and the Colts lose a game they were favored to win.     But if that didn't happen,  wouldn't people here think better of Jim Caldwell.

 

Baltimore did not get rid of JC.    He got hired away.    And I don't recall reading any bad stores about his work in 2013.    I don't know that he was thought to be the problem with that offense.

 

In Detroit,  his first year, terrific.     His second year,  his defense got gutted, I think they lost 3 top DL,  and the offense suffers as Megatron is injured a fair amount this year.    And they responded nicely down the stretch, 6-2 in the 2nd half.

 

I haven't followed JC's career enough to have a good feel for his coaching ability.    But it sure feels like things are our of proportion and it's all because the ball bounced funny in the SB.     Absent that,  he'd be highly thought of here.    (By the way,  the Dungy/Caldwell power play is new to me.   Interesting stuff...)

 

Thanks for sharing.....

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Narcosys said:

I could swore it was you I saw a few weeks ago going off about Pagano. My mistake if it wasn't. 

 

All we can know is that Rodgers had been sacked a lot,  and most under philbin. Even with the contextual situations taken into account, we can assume they are mostly even.   So Rodgers was still sacked more under philbin.  

 

I suspect Philbin's time also dates back to Favre being the starter at GB.

 

So, he was the OL coach there first,  and was then promoted to OC.    And his work as OC got him the HC job.

 

Seems a lot of people thought his work as an assistant and a coordinator was very good.  

 

I'm not a fan of Philbin's as a head coach.    It took me one episode of the HBO series to see he was badly miscast in that roll.      But everything I read is that he's highly regarded as an assistant.

 

Some stats can be deceiving.....

 

[throwing BBZ]

20 hours ago, ricker182 said:

Hell of a demotion for Philbin. 

Tells you what the league thinks of him...

 

 It is like you really don`t follow NFL coaching AT ALL!

[peytonmanning18]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Wasn't Philbin Vontae's coach that traded him for no reason? Not sure whey we keep hiring these people with a history of making bad decisions

 

Good thing they aren't bringing him in to coach the defensive backs.  And I don't see Vontae moving to offensive line anytime soon

[Superman]

35 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Good thoughtful post.

 

I'd like to ask a question about Caldwell's time here.     I wasn't a Colts fan then, so I'd like to get your thoughts....

 

What would your view of Caldwell be today,  what would EVERYONE'S view of Caldwell be today if the Colts had beaten New Orleans in the Super Bowl?      I'm guessing it would be much, much better.    More favorable?      The Saints make one of the greatest calls in SB history and recover a daring on-sides kick.   Peyton throws a pick-6,  and the Colts lose a game they were favored to win.     But if that didn't happen,  wouldn't people here think better of Jim Caldwell.

 

Baltimore did not get rid of JC.    He got hired away.    And I don't recall reading any bad stores about his work in 2013.    I don't know that he was thought to be the problem with that offense.

 

In Detroit,  his first year, terrific.     His second year,  his defense got gutted, I think they lost 3 top DL,  and the offense suffers as Megatron is injured a fair amount this year.    And they responded nicely down the stretch, 6-2 in the 2nd half.

 

I haven't followed JC's career enough to have a good feel for his coaching ability.    But it sure feels like things are our of proportion and it's all because the ball bounced funny in the SB.     Absent that,  he'd be highly thought of here.    (By the way,  the Dungy/Caldwell power play is new to me.   Interesting stuff...)

 

Thanks for sharing.....

 

For the Colts to have beaten the Saints in that SB, they would have had to make adjustments defensively to impact Drew Brees. They decided to play soft Cover 2 with 8+ yard cushions on the outside, and Brees carved it up for the entire second half. Playing more aggressively on the outside had the potential to disrupt the Saints offensive rhythm, but no changes were made, and Brees went 32-39, with no resistance. We would have had to call better plays at the end of the first half to keep the ball away from the Saints and keep them from making up so much ground.

 

There are other examples. None of them are a direct reflection of the head coach; Caldwell didn't call the plays or install the defensive gameplan. But that game showed severe limitations in his game management, his ability to make adjustments on the fly, etc. If he had made those adjustments, I think it would have changed the game (maybe the outcome), and my opinion of him would be different. I would credit him with good coaching, instead of believing that his deficiencies helped us lose that game.

 

The next two seasons didn't help his reputation. Lots of game management issues, failure to make what IMO would have been common sense adjustments with backup QBs, etc. 

 

In Baltimore, I'm not blaming Caldwell entirely for the offensive issues. I do think those issues are partly a reflection of the coordinator, but I recognize that there were other factors. Still, my original point is that I don't think Caldwell has a good resume as a coordinator or a QB coach. He finished 2012 well, 2013 wasn't impressive, and his work with Manning doesn't really prove to me that he's a good position coach. Doesn't mean he isn't well respected and isn't deserving of whatever opportunities he gets. I hold no ill well toward him. I'm just not impressed by him. And my initial statement in this thread wasn't meant to say that he should never coach anywhere again. Just that I don't think he has an impressive history as a coordinator.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Wasn't Philbin Vontae's coach that traded him for no reason? Not sure whey we keep hiring these people with a history of making bad decisions

 

He didn't make the decision.    The general manager did.

 

And Vonte wasn't all that in Miami.     He wasn't happy and they weren't happy with him.

 

Philbin wasn't a good head coach.    But he has a history of being a good assistant coach and that's what we hired him to be.      

 

This isn't rocket science.    No need to overthink this........

 

[NewColtsFan]

21 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I hate this.  

I don't like him as a coach at all in the NFL.  

  

The Dolphins are talented and that team is a total mess.

 

They're more talented today.

 

But they weren't that talented for most of Philbin's year.     And that's why the general manager got fired.

 

He didn't do a good job.     Neither did Phlbin,  but he doesn't get all the blame,  only some of it.

 

And we're not hiring him to be a HC.      We're not even hiring him to be the OC.    He's only an assistant, where he has a good reputation.

 

[jemack]

The reason I love this hiring is if the Pats can win an SB with Phins rejects, maybe the Colts can too.

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

22 hours ago, Superman said:

 

His work as a coordinator is impressive. I think he's a good coach, just did a bad job as a head coach.

Absolutely agree he was a good OL coach & OC him and Chud working together could be special!!

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

For the Colts to have beaten the Saints in that SB, they would have had to make adjustments defensively to impact Drew Brees. They decided to play soft Cover 2 with 8+ yard cushions on the outside, and Brees carved it up for the entire second half. Playing more aggressively on the outside had the potential to disrupt the Saints offensive rhythm, but no changes were made, and Brees went 32-39, with no resistance. We would have had to call better plays at the end of the first half to keep the ball away from the Saints and keep them from making up so much ground.

 

 

I can still remember watching that Super Bowl with the 2nd half onward was like some weird waking nightmare. The pub outside the flat I lived in also burned down during the game which I felt was symbolic of watching my own hopes slowly being destroyed. 

 

Those were the days... no GamePass, skulking round the internet trying to get whatever highlights you could find, hoping for those lucky weeks the Colts were the channel 4 game of the week. The BBC coverage of the Super Bowls was amazing too for unintended comedy. Mike Carlson getting rolled out every Super Bowl to explain to us Brits how throw ball works.

 

 

[hawkeyes]

22 hours ago, ricker182 said:

.. he did a terrible job in MIami with a pretty talented team.

 

This!

IMO Horrible hire ... hope he proves me wrong!

 

[theanarchist]

8 minutes ago, hawkeyes said:

 

This!

IMO Horrible hire ... hope he proves me wrong!

 

They didnt hire him to run the team. They hired him to coach the offensive line.

[will426]

Seems like a lot of people  can't understand the difference between an Oline coach and head coach 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Again. I'm simply asking for proof. You all keep saying he has all this vast experience but yet no one cites specific examples.......

 

The first question is whether you understand the fundamental difference between a head coach and an OL coach. You haven't really acknowledged that difference.

 

Philbin coached the Packers OL from 2003-06.

2003 -- 159 yards/game rushing, 5 yards/attempt, 18 rushing TDs, 19 sacks

2004 -- 125 yards/game rushing, 4.3 yards/attempt, 9 rushing TDs, 14 sacks

2005 -- 84 yards/game rushing, 3.4 yards/attempt, 11 rushing TDs, 27 sacks (Ahman Green was hurt)

2006 -- 104 yards/game rushing, 3.9 yards/attempt, 9 rushing TDs, 24 sacks

 

He has 20 years experience as an OL coach. Is he a great OL coach? I don't know about that. But he obviously has experience, and much of what's actually relevant to his position with the Colts is promising.

 

All this info is readily available. Yet so many continue to say 'the OL was bad in Miami, so Joe Philbin must be a bad OL coach.' And that's not how it works.

[southwest1]

On January 15, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Larry Horseman said:

On January 15, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Superman said:

On January 15, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Andrew Luck's Beard said:

What a great hire!

 

On January 15, 2016 at 4:54 PM, James Harden said:

Great signing. Experience all around. Next season, the players will be held accountable instead of the staffs. Can't wait! 

 

Contrary to popular belief, I deplore this hire. Phil-bin doesn't instill confidence in the men around him at all either as a coordinator or head coach. I agree with Ricker182. I just don't see this move leading to more protection for Luck at all. 

 

Yes, I know. SW1 was totally wrong about retaining Pagano & Grigson too so I realize that my track record on the direction of the Colts is worthless & way off. 

 

I just am familiar with GB football a lot & inspirational is not an adjective I would use to describe Joe. Perhaps, he is excellent at alignment & gap control along with edge containment but I'm not overly optimistic right now.   

 

I'm open to being pleasantly surprised though. I was just never enamored with Joe personally. Usually good communicators make good coordinators & Joe is bland at best, but then again Chuck Noll won multiple championships for Pittsburgh too so what the hades language can be overrated occasionally I guess. 

[SteelCityColt]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

All this info is readily available. Yet so many continue to say 'the OL was bad in Miami, so Joe Philbin must be a bad OL coach.' And that's not how it works.

 

None of if this is aimed at the exchange I've quote this from to be clear...

 

But as you say all this information is now readily available in this day and age but it seems also that there is a trend to look for simple, very black and white, positions when analysing things. 

 

Sure people will have differing opinions but it's frustrating watching people chuck out statements as if they're fact when 30 seconds of checking would show just how ludicrous it is. Not even the good type of Ludicris.

 

What's worrying is sometimes you see even paid talking head doing the same, or even worse, cherry picking a stat without context and holding it up as concrete proof. 

 

/Rant 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I can still remember watching that Super Bowl with the 2nd half onward was like some weird waking nightmare. The pub outside the flat I lived in also burned down during the game which I felt was symbolic of watching my own hopes slowly being destroyed. 

 

Those were the days... no GamePass, skulking round the internet trying to get whatever highlights you could find, hoping for those lucky weeks the Colts were the channel 4 game of the week. The BBC coverage of the Super Bowls was amazing too for unintended comedy. Mike Carlson getting rolled out every Super Bowl to explain to us Brits how throw ball works.

 

It was infuriating. I rewatched the game a couple times, and it just got worse with each viewing. I couldn't believe it.

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, jemack said:

The reason I love this hiring is if the Pats can win an SB with Phins rejects, maybe the Colts can too.

 

You know jmk. That is a good point. Since Phil-bin used to run the show in Miami & the Dolphins always give NE fits regardless of what their dismal record is, there could be a silver lining there. I'm grasping at straws right now I know, but I'm trying to put a positive spin on this hire. 

 

It's not working, but I'm trying man. That's worth something. 

[SteelCityColt]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It was infuriating. I rewatched the game a couple times, and it just got worse with each viewing. I couldn't believe it.

 

Death by a thousand cuts... watching your corners constantly playing off their man. Powers/Lacey I feel were somewhat betrayed by a poor scheme and weren't as bad as people made out. 

[Superman]

26 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

None of if this is aimed at the exchange I've quote this from to be clear...

 

But as you say all this information is now readily available in this day and age but it seems also that there is a trend to look for simple, very black and white, positions when analysing things. 

 

Sure people will have differing opinions but it's frustrating watching people chuck out statements as if they're fact when 30 seconds of checking would show just how ludicrous it is. Not even the good type of Ludicris.

 

What's worrying is sometimes you see even paid talking head doing the same, or even worse, cherry picking a stat without context and holding it up as concrete proof. 

 

/Rant 

 

Why rely on thoughtful analysis when you can rely on thought-terminating cliches and platitudes?

 

#aintnobodygottimeforthat

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Death by a thousand cuts... watching your corners constantly playing off their man. Powers/Lacey I feel were somewhat betrayed by a poor scheme and weren't as bad as people made out. 

 

Brees was 32/39. In the Super Bowl. C'mon, man.

 

A lot of people will talk about how the defense was neutered by Freeney's injury, but I felt that Freeney's injury wasn't even allowed to be a factor. Once he got to Brees in the second quarter, the Saints went super quick for the rest of the game, nullifying any pass rush we may or may not have been able to mount. And we just let him.

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, will426 said:

Seems like a lot of people  can't understand the difference between an Oline coach and head coach 

Joe was the HC in Miami & presumably he oversaw all his coordinators right including his o-line coach correct? I seem to recall Ryan Tannehill getting sacked frequently. True, part of that is poor QB decision making & part of that is a lack of time to throw. 

 

Don't pardon Phil-bin simply because it's a difference in responsibilities. You can either protect your field general or you can't. 

[SteelCityColt]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Why rely on thoughtful analysis when you can rely on thought-terminating cliches and platitudes?

 

#aintnobodygottimeforthat

 

[southwest1]

On January 15, 2016 at 5:29 PM, krunk said:

Before being promoted to Packers offensive coordinator in 2007, Philbin had been an offensive line coach in some capacity for 21 years, including in college.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000623288/article/colts-hire-joe-philbin-as-offensive-line-coach

Because I respect krunk's high IQ & football intuition, I will wait & see how this plays out. I need to thumb thru the rest of this thread & see what Gavin thinks who watches a ton of tape & I also value his feedback/impressions as well. Be right back. 

[southwest1]

20 hours ago, ricker182 said:

Oh boy. Now he's an assistant coach.   

Definitely do not like this hire now.   

Whoa...A chill just went down my spine...Phil-bin 2nd in command on the field to Pagano? Are you serious? 

 

I'm not chasing ricker182 BTW. Just thanking him for bringing this scary fact to my attention. I don't hate Joe. I just know he can't rally the troops man. It's not in his DNA. I don't expect him to instill fear in others. I just think he's about as motivational as rubbing your caboose with a brick. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I just know he can't rally the troops man. It's not in his DNA. I don't expect him to instill fear in others.

 

Good thing that's not his job.

[southwest1]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Good thing that's not his job.

If Pagano God forbid; becomes ill again, it very well could be the case Superman. Highly unlikely yes, but not impossible either I'm afraid. 

 

That's why who your #2 is so crucial during a season as we already endured with Bruce Arians.

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, southwest1 said:

If Pagano God forbid; becomes ill again, it very well could be the case Superman. Highly unlikely yes, but not impossible either I'm afraid. 

 

That's why who your #2 is so crucial during a season as we already endured with Bruce Arians.

 

I don't think your #2 coach is as important as say your backup QB.

I mean, how often do HC's go down in a season? 

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Good thing that's not his job.

No....but let's say this.

 

 

A head coach is in charge of his team, they get the blame, they get the glory if the team booms or busts.

 

If I'm a head coach with an OL background and I'm watching my star QB take a ton of sacks and hits, you best bet your bottom dime that I'm getting  in the OL coaches butt or completely taking over for him if he isn't performing. Period.

 

Same way if I'm a head coach with a D background, if the D isn't routinely performing, you best bet that coach is getting some extra motivation and if needed, relieved. 

 

Does that create hostility, sure  but when your franchise and young QB is at risk, I don't give a dang.

 

I have looked at his resume, I'm really not impressed....at all. Even Rodgers was pounder with this cat at the controls of the OL. 

 

I'll give him a chance but if it doesn't improve the OL, I'll be pointing back to this thread......