One day Griff Whalen may be 'that' guy

[bababooey]

I see no real difference between Edelman and Griff. If Griff was in NE, hed be a 1000 yard receiver.

Edelman was just the guy returning punts for years while Welker, Moss, Gronk, Hernandez, etc. were making the plays. Cleveland didn't even want to give him a modest contract so he came back to NE w his tail between his legs and turned into one of the best players in the NFL.

[ColtRider]

Missouri is known as the "show me" state.....    it's the state's unofficial nickname,  and appears on their license plates...   "the show me state"...

 

So, with Griff,  you have to show me before I believe it.

 

It's an old expression......    (and I'm an older-ish kinda guy... 58)

1957! What a great year to be born. (unless you turn 59 next month)

[ColtRider]

Maybe I'm underestimating Griff.....

Maybe he's a guy who works so hard he gets better and better.

But, I'm still going to be Missouri on Griff until he shows me.

He's got to be able to beat the other teams #1 or even #2 CB to be "that guy".... a guy who can catch 100 passes in a season.

If he only has to be able to beat the other teams 3rd or 4th CB, then I think he can be a solid guy. A good solid underneath receiver who can move the chains.

But I just don't think he's going to be more than that. And I think anyone who thinks he will is misreading what Griff has done.

He's look good in situations where the defense is dropping deep and letting the Colts take the underneath stuff and move the chains. Defenses are giving Griff all sorts of room. But, in the past, when defenses have decided Griff has to be covered, they've covered him like a blanket and he's done much less.

Maybe he's now capable of more..... but, again, I want to see it before I think it's true......

Color me skeptical....... and remember, I'm the Stanford guy.....

I'll take "a good solid underneath receiver who can move the chains" any day of the week. 2X on Sunday. Understand your skepticism, I just hope Whalen can keep it up when they call on him for any situation. That kid plays his butt off!

[UKColt13]

Why is griff compared to Edelman, Welker, Collie, Bebe, Dwight, Largent?

 

Slightly undersized, underneath receiver with good/great hands who makes plays and is a darling of his fan base.

[Coffeedrinker]

The kid would have been starting his first season if he had been drafted by Grigs instead of

an UDFA. Grigs has been trying to smother this kid out with HIS picks and free agents, but

the Griffer keeps showing he needs to be on the field with his excellent hands and route running.

 

Pride of the people making the decisions is why it has taken so long for Whalen to solidify a spot

on the roster.

You realize this argument doesn't hold water don't you?  If that was Grigson's attitude then why does Harrison keep getting starts over Shipley (last year) and Holmes (this year) even though both are/were Grigson free agent or draft pick and have played better than Harrison?

 

Doyle also keeps getting snaps even though he was an UDFA from another team.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

You realize this argument doesn't hold water don't you?  If that was Grigson's attitude then why does Harrison keep getting starts over Shipley (last year) and Holmes (this year) even though both are/were Grigson free agent or draft pick and have played better than Harrison?

 

Doyle also keeps getting snaps even though he was an UDFA from another team.

Touche', good points. Doyle is one of my favorites, just a hard nosed player.

[NewColtsFan]

Whoa!

That missouri comment was over my head.

Griff doesnt have to beat the #1 or #2 receiver. TY, dorsett, moncrief will draw the #1 and 2 usually i would think. I didnt read article so not sure what "that guy" means.

I see Griff as being a clutch 3rd down receiver. We have far more talented receivers, but you can't discount they plays Griff makes and when he makes them. He's a #3 or 4 receiver that plays above himself in big moments.

 

Some people in this thread are saying they can see Griff being the kind of receiver that could get 100 receptions.

 

A #3 WR isn't going to get that many.

 

So,  the implication is that they see him as a 1 or 2. 

 

Not me.     I don't see Griff with those kind of skills.

 

I don't see Edelman or Welker.       I see a 4 or a 5.

 

If he turns out better than that,  I'd be happy to be wrong.

[NewColtsFan]

1957! What a great year to be born. (unless you turn 59 next month)

 

I'm late-January of '57.

 

So,  my birthday used to be the week of the Super Bowl when it was the last week of January.     I used to joke that the country celebrates my birthday with a national holiday!

 

But now that the SB is in February.....  well,  oh well.....    

 

It's just an ordinary birthday......              

[NewColtsFan]

I'll take "a good solid underneath receiver who can move the chains" any day of the week. 2X on Sunday. Understand your skepticism, I just hope Whalen can keep it up when they call on him for any situation. That kid plays his butt off!

 

I'm with you.    I agree.

 

I'm only offering skepticism to those in the thread who see Griff being a #1 or a #2 WR with 100 catches.     Some here think that.

 

I see a #4.  

 

I'd be very happy if he's a WR that can move the chains.     Like you,  I'll take that every game....

[Patagonia Chris]

im telling you, if we get josh mcdaniels as our HC, he would make griff a 100 catch wr. 

 

[dgambill]

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=115107&draftyear=2012&genpos=WR

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=67858&draftyear=2009&genpos=QB

 

 

According to draft scout Edelman on ran his 40 .3 faster then Griff. Also while its true certainly Edelman can play on the outside at wr he gets most of his yards in the slot. Am I saying Griff is Edelman? LOL of course not but reliable receivers are not a dime a dozen

Man if 40 times automatically translated to the football field. Edelman and Griff are so far apart its not even funny. Edelman has the most incredible change of direction, shakability that most receivers only dream of. What makes Edelman special is yes he runs wonderful crisp routes and catches everything thrown his direction but its that he makes people miss...doesn't go down with arm tackles...he is really really strong...and his yac is unbelievable.....Griff will NEVER EVER have that. How many times have we seen Griff make someone miss....probably count it on one hand. Even when he is returning kicks he couldn't make someone miss with an open field and people running full speed right at him. He doesn't have the hips or the strength. Griff is closer to Amendola if your going to compare him to a Patriot....and a poor version of that. The kid has been in the same system for like 8 years...he knows ALL the routes and options off the routes like the back of his hand. It lets him play a little faster than he is...anticipate when and where the balls are going to be thrown and the openings will be. Put him in another system...he might not even be on the team. If were going to compare him to another white guy perhaps Cole Beasley of the Cowboys.....except he is bigger....but he isn't a guy that's going to be able to get open on good corners...he just isn't. He is barely on the team...and probably won't when the staff and offense changes next year.

[dgambill]

I'm with you.    I agree.

 

I'm only offering skepticism to those in the thread who see Griff being a #1 or a #2 WR with 100 catches.     Some here think that.

 

I see a #4.  

 

I'd be very happy if he's a WR that can move the chains.     Like you,  I'll take that every game....

Agree...I hope people don't think I don't appreciate the skills he can bring to the Colts...but those that think he is capable of more...I don't see what they see....what does he do on the field to make people believe that? He has had a few plays against teams 4th corner or back up safeties in some matchups but I've not seen him line up on the outside or even against nickel corners and consistently seen him beat them. We saw the difference that a player like Edelman makes to an offense....Griff isn't going to make that difference...now or ever. Hard nosed player...but he isn't going to be a pro bowl caliber player...ever. You see guys like Peyton Manning for years take avg wrs like Austin Collie and Brandon Stokely and make them look special....or Tom Brady make guys like Deion Branch or Troy Brown look special....but when an elite wr steps on the field....the Welkers, Edelmans, Moss or Gronk and the Wayne/Harrison/Thomas step on the field you see what special looks like....Griff ain't got an ounce of those guys in him....at least I haven't witnessed it. Nothing wrong with the kid...we need a good 4th wr to step in right now...but Dorsett isn't shaking like a leaf worried his job is gone...when he is back...well we will be able to see something special when he gets fully up to speed with the NFL.

[ProblChld32]

He will be our next Collie

 

Minus the concussions i hope.

[indyspeed13]

Man if 40 times automatically translated to the football field. Edelman and Griff are so far apart its not even funny. Edelman has the most incredible change of direction, shakability that most receivers only dream of. What makes Edelman special is yes he runs wonderful crisp routes and catches everything thrown his direction but its that he makes people miss...doesn't go down with arm tackles...he is really really strong...and his yac is unbelievable.....Griff will NEVER EVER have that. How many times have we seen Griff make someone miss....probably count it on one hand. Even when he is returning kicks he couldn't make someone miss with an open field and people running full speed right at him. He doesn't have the hips or the strength. Griff is closer to Amendola if your going to compare him to a Patriot....and a poor version of that. The kid has been in the same system for like 8 years...he knows ALL the routes and options off the routes like the back of his hand. It lets him play a little faster than he is...anticipate when and where the balls are going to be thrown and the openings will be. Put him in another system...he might not even be on the team. If were going to compare him to another white guy perhaps Cole Beasley of the Cowboys.....except he is bigger....but he isn't a guy that's going to be able to get open on good corners...he just isn't. He is barely on the team...and probably won't when the staff and offense changes next year.

well i respectfully disagree looking at 40 times on the sports exchange it lists Griff as a high of 4.66 but a low of 4.45. 4.5 isnt lightning speed but there have been a lot of very successful recievers in the 4.5 range. Griff is listed at 15 reps on the bench. at 5'10 185lbs thats a pretty strong dude so i also disagree with your opinion of strength. and if i recall his college career correctly he was never injured. i believe in his first year with the colts he had an injury but since has not had any injury. so i would disagree with the danny amendola comparison. and with edelman leaving the lineup for a while amendola will be getting alot more attention and exposure im interested to see how that turns out.  Griff doesnt have great change of direction but thats not an attribute that cant be improved i think with more opportunities to see the playing field in 3 wr sets TY moncrief whalen i think he fits into the 2/3 position perfectly. he is a different player than welker or edelman or collie but if the OC utilizes griffs skill set correctly he will be a good football player

[southwest1]

Man if 40 times automatically translated to the football field. Edelman and Griff are so far apart its not even funny. Edelman has the most incredible change of direction, shakability that most receivers only dream of. What makes Edelman special is yes he runs wonderful crisp routes and catches everything thrown his direction but its that he makes people miss...doesn't go down with arm tackles...he is really really strong...and his yac is unbelievable.....Griff will NEVER EVER have that. How many times have we seen Griff make someone miss....probably count it on one hand. Even when he is returning kicks he couldn't make someone miss with an open field and people running full speed right at him. He doesn't have the hips or the strength. Griff is closer to Amendola if your going to compare him to a Patriot....and a poor version of that. The kid has been in the same system for like 8 years...he knows ALL the routes and options off the routes like the back of his hand. It lets him play a little faster than he is...anticipate when and where the balls are going to be thrown and the openings will be. Put him in another system...he might not even be on the team. If were going to compare him to another white guy perhaps Cole Beasley of the Cowboys.....except he is bigger....but he isn't a guy that's going to be able to get open on good corners...he just isn't. He is barely on the team...and probably won't when the staff and offense changes next year.

Nice post DGB. Your spot on about even putting Edelman & Whalen in the same sentence. Julian is leaps & bounds ahead of Griff as you suggest. Julian is so much more elusive than Griff is & he's had some nice punt returns in the past. Something Griff is only marginally decent at at best. Preach dgb! Preach. 

[throwing BBZ]

He will be our next Collie

 

 Yip! Killed by his own QB.

[aaron11]

he makes plays becuase the defense forgets he's out there.  as anything more than a 4th or 5th WR he would be shut down

[Stephen]

Yip! Killed by his own QB.

Finished off Welker to.

[Gavin]

Some people in this thread are saying they can see Griff being the kind of receiver that could get 100 receptions.

 

A #3 WR isn't going to get that many.

 

So,  the implication is that they see him as a 1 or 2. 

 

Not me.     I don't see Griff with those kind of skills.

 

I don't see Edelman or Welker.       I see a 4 or a 5.

 

If he turns out better than that,  I'd be happy to be wrong.

Realistically Edelman and Welker are better. No debate about it. We do however go 3 wide quite a bit, Also again Edelman makes a lot of catches in the slot as did Welker

[NewColtsFan]

Realistically Edelman and Welker are better. No debate about it. We do however go 3 wide quite a bit, Also again Edelman makes a lot of catches in the slot as did Welker

 

Yeah.....

 

But ideally, our 3 WR sets should be Hilton,  Moncrief and Dorsett.      Our 4th WR should be Whalen.

 

I suppose there could be situations where you want Griff to be the 3rd WR in a 3-WR set...    but I wouldn't think it would happen too often...

 

No knock against Griff....     just saying....

[RockThatBlue]

Most overrated player in the history of the colts

Nope. Not even close.

[oldunclemark]

One day Griff may be 'that guy' who gets 100 catches.

One day Griff may be 'that guy' who gets released again..

I enjoy watching him play and will until the day we release him

[RockThatBlue]

The thing I like about Whalen is that he always seems to get open. He might not be a burner but he runs such good routes that he always finds a way to get open. I disagree about the Weller/Edelman comparisons but he does well in his role and seems to move the chains more often than not which is good enough for me

[Nesjan3]

I hate to say it cause I was a fan of the signing but Johnson has been a no show this year, at this point Griff has got the potential that should have him starting. Whats with are staff and not getting veterans to play well, every time we sign and older veteran player they petty much fall off and are done

[ColtsRule815]

I like Whalen and have liked him since his rookie season.  The nonsense during the Pats game aside, he is a solid slot receiver.  I also really like Doyle.  There's nothing he can't do on the field.

[indyspeed13]

I hate to say it cause I was a fan of the signing but Johnson has been a no show this year, at this point Griff has got the potential that should have him starting. Whats with are staff and not getting veterans to play well, every time we sign and older veteran player they petty much fall off and are done

AJ started fallin off last year when vontae had him locked down all game that never used to happen

[akcolt]

Scroll up and take a look at my answer to TK...

It's the unofficial nickname for the state.

Missouri is known as "the show me state"....

No one has seen The Outlaw Josey Wales?

[lollygagger8]

I love the Griffers. All he does is makes plays. 

[dudeski]

I love the Griffers. All he does is makes plays.

and fumble punts

[lollygagger8]

and fumble punts

 

Hence his removal from that job. 

[dudeski]

Hence his removal from that job.

i guess bad plays are still plays

[rockywoj]

I can see Griff as a dependable 4th receiver alternative that brings in on key downs and a good contributor on special teams coverage units.  (Don't want him as a returner).  If he can get 40 - 50 catches per year in such a role, he'd have to be considered to be successful.  I cannot conceive of him supplanting Hilton, Moncrief, or Dorsett, though.

[Gavin]

Why is everyone here seemingly talking about 1.2.3.4 wr's when we move them around? Luck/Hasselbeck are supposed to go where there read takes them and that's supposed to be to who gets open

[Defjamz26]

Griff should be starting above Andre Johnson ik that.

Agreed. Play the best players. We benched Herremans and Louis when they didn't play good. Really not sure why AJ is starting.

[Narcosys]

Yeah.....

 

But ideally, our 3 WR sets should be Hilton,  Moncrief and Dorsett.      Our 4th WR should be Whalen.

 

I suppose there could be situations where you want Griff to be the 3rd WR in a 3-WR set...    but I wouldn't think it would happen too often...

 

No knock against Griff....     just saying....

Who plays slot with this set up?  Hilton could, but he has solidified himself on the outside, and Moncrief and Dorsett are both more outside type receivers.

[Narcosys]

I can see Griff as a dependable 4th receiver alternative that brings in on key downs and a good contributor on special teams coverage units.  (Don't want him as a returner).  If he can get 40 - 50 catches per year in such a role, he'd have to be considered to be successful.  I cannot conceive of him supplanting Hilton, Moncrief, or Dorsett, though.

 

Dorsett has yet to show anything, so there's nothing to supplant currently imo.

[NewColtsFan]

Who plays slot with this set up?  Hilton could, but he has solidified himself on the outside, and Moncrief and Dorsett are both more outside type receivers.

 

Well....

 

It's my understanding that we ask all of our WR's to learn every position on the field,  so that any of them can play any spot on any given play.    

 

We emphasize versatility...

 

So,  I try not to concern myself with who fits where.     Because any of them should be able to play the slot,  or anywhere else......

 

At least,  that's my understanding.....

[Valpo2004]

At this point Whalen has made more plays on offense for the amount of time he's been on the field then Dorsett or AJ.

 

He spends very little time out there and when he does he's usually making a couple of big catches and everyone just likes to write those off because he's not very fast or something like that.

 

Anyone have any PFF data or football outsiders data on Whalen's production verses how much time he's been on the field?

 

I think there is some stat about yards per route ran or something like that.  I'd like to see the stat on that for all of our receivers this year.

[Valpo2004]

I found a twitter post from a PFF writer has Griff Whalen as #3 in the NFL in yards per route run.  You got a better way to statistically measure a receivers effectiveness better then the number of yards receiving divided by the number of routes that he's run???  Because that to me sounds like the very measure of a receivers effectiveness.

 

Griff Whalen quite simply just isn't given a chance and he deserves that chance.  He's not given a chance because "He's too slow, too short, too white, not a high draft pick.  

 

https://twitter.com/pff_natejahnke/status/656104735649484800

 

Quite frankly I'd put him over Dorsett and def. over Andre Johnson.  Production beats draft status or beliefs about athletic abilities and whiteness.

[theanarchist]

http://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/brunos-blog/dont-forget-griffer

 

Interesting article..

 

 

 

If we can get Andrew healthy and these two playing more together Griff may take over the 'Reggie-possession/go to guy' role that Andrew has been missing.

I definitely like players like Griff who over achieve. He's worked hard. Been a special teamer. Bounced from PS to the offense. He takes advantage of his chances and just makes you feel good about the guys in the NFL who arent the heralded athlete but work hard for everything they get. Definitely my kind of player. If Im a coach I want 3 or 4 Griff Whalen's and Jack Doyle's to go along with my Andrew Luck's and my TY Hilton's.