Colts release OT Gosder Cherlius

[horseshoeblue22]

Still not really the way it works. I'm trying not to nerd out on this topic because I know everyone doesn't find this as interesting as I do. But here goes:

The Colts don't have to pay Cherilus another dime. The dead money represents money that's already been paid to him, in this case, signing bonus money and additional salary that was treated as signing bonus due to certain rules. It's a total of $14.5m, and it's divided evenly over the life of the contract, up to five years worth. That's $2.9m/year. It's called prorated bonus. Every cent that a team pay a player eventually has to hit the cap, regardless of the structure of the contract.

So in 2013 and 2014, a portion of his cap hit was that $2.9m of prorated bonus.

When he's released, all of the prorated bonus that has not yet hit the cap now gets accelerated. If it's before June 1 (this year it was May 12 because they changed the date; not sure if they'll make that change permanent), the entire amount gets accelerated to that year's cap, because all paid money has to hit the cap. If the player is released after June 1, then only the current year's portion of prorated bonus counts against the cap in that year (in Cherilus' case, $2.9m in 2015). The rest of the prorated bonus counts against the cap the next season (in Cherilus' case, $5.8m in 2016).

Cherilus unpaid salary is not guaranteed, so his $4m salary in 2015 and his $7m and $7.5m salaries in 2016 and 2017 go away completely. They don't have to be paid, nor will the ever count against the cap. The remaining $8.7m in dead money that will go on the Colts cap is entirely due to previously paid money. In a very real sense, releasing Cherilus means the Colts don't have to pay him the remaining $18.5m on his contract, nor does it ever count against the cap. That's over half the total value of the contract.

So, just to clarify, the Colts have a cap hit of $2.9m in 2015 and $5.8m in 2016 for Gosder Cherilus, and that's a savings of $4m and $4.1m respectively.

That's what I meant. 2.9M in cap hit, not actual dollars. The reporter worded it awkwardly but we technically have a "negative" cap penalty from releasing Cherilus now of 2.9m. He doesn't mention his 6.9m salary off the books, so basically we get a refund of 4m from a player we paid 6.9m to already.

[dw49]

That's what I meant. 2.9M in cap hit, not actual dollars. The reporter worded it awkwardly but we technically have a "negative" cap penalty from releasing Cherilus now of 2.9m. He doesn't mention his 6.9m salary off the books, so basically we get a refund of 4m from a player we paid 6.9m to already.

 

 

Holder did not just "word it poorly" , he did not know the how the cap works as SM and myself said. Here's an "amended  " post I just saw in twitter.

 

 

Stephen Holder ‏@HolderStephen  4h

4 hours ago

Need to amend something fr earlier: This is post-June 1 cut, so proration is handled differently. Big cap hit is NEXT year. H/T @Jason_OTC

 

 

•  

[CR91]

We have way more depth and options at guard than at tackle, most of whom have actually played in the NFL. Before you move Mewhort to RT, we have 4 tackles and 9 guards on the roster. And of those 4 tackles, Castonzo is the only one who has played an NFL game. I'd expect that we'd be looking for some tackle depth, not guard depth.

 

be thats as it may, the hole on the starting line right now is LG not T

[Superman]

That's what I meant. 2.9M in cap hit, not actual dollars. The reporter worded it awkwardly but we technically have a "negative" cap penalty from releasing Cherilus now of 2.9m. He doesn't mention his 6.9m salary off the books, so basically we get a refund of 4m from a player we paid 6.9m to already.

 

It's not a refund. We didn't pay him $6.9m. We don't have to pay him $4m, and the $2.9m remains on the books for this year. 

 

I'm pretty sure you get it, I'm just a stickler for cap stuff. I didn't understand how it worked partly because people use all these terms interchangeably as if they all mean the same thing, so I try to use the correct terms the correct way.

 

Long story short -- and we're way past that -- Cherilus cap hit shrinks by $4m this year, and by $4.1m next year, and then disappears totally in 2017.

[Superman]

be thats as it may, the hole on the starting line right now is LG not T

 

We have three players who can play LG. Assuming Thornton is penciled in at RG, we can choose between Reitz, Herremans and even Louis. Donald Thomas can't be relied on, but he's still on the roster for now. We have several youngsters, including Heenan and even Harrison/Holmes who can play guard. I don't see LG as a hole; I see both guard positions as crowded, at least right now. And we have no depth at tackle.

[CR91]

We have three players who can play LG. Assuming Thornton is penciled in at RG, we can choose between Reitz, Herremans and even Louis. Donald Thomas can't be relied on, but he's still on the roster for now. We have several youngsters, including Heenan and even Harrison/Holmes who can play guard. I don't see LG as a hole; I see both guard positions as crowded, at least right now. And we have no depth at tackle.

 

first off thornton in no way should be penciled in anywhere on the line. if anyone should be penciled in its herramans. I dont have any confidence in reitz thornton or louis being a full time starter 

[Superman]

first off thornton in no way should be penciled in anywhere on the line. if anyone should be penciled in its herramans. I dont have any confidence in reitz thornton or louis being a full time starter 

 

I disagree, but whatever. The tackle position is still woefully thin, while there are plenty of options at guard.

[CR91]

I disagree, but whatever. The tackle position is still woefully thin, while there are plenty of options at guard.

 

dont forget that reitz can play tackle as well so thats 5 tackles. thats plenty of depth. what we need is a proven starter like mathis not depth players starting. 

[Superman]

dont forget that reitz can play tackle as well so thats 5 tackles. thats plenty of depth. what we need is a proven starter like mathis not depth players starting. 

 

I don't think there's any reason to relegate Thornton to "depth player." Reitz is really good at guard, when healthy, which is the whole issue with him. I'm not sure Louis will stick on the final 53, so point taken there. If the staff wasn't willing to let the guys we have get a solid crack at playing guard, I think they'd have done something about it back in March.

 

I'm not turning up my nose at Evan Mathis, necessarily. I'm only saying that the greater need is at tackle. That seems logical to me, considering we got rid of a tackle, and were already thin at the position. We'll see what happens. If this means we bring on Mathis, great. But I don't think that's in the cards.

[Douzer]

72

Harrison, Jonotthan

C

6-4

308

23

2

Florida 

56

Vitabile, Brandon

C

6-3

303

23

R

Northwestern 

62

Holmes, Khaled

C/G

6-3

309

25

3

USC 

66

Thomas, Donald

G

6-4

303

29

8

Connecticut 

79

Herremans, Todd

G

6-6

323

32

11

Saginaw Valley State

63

Heenan, Ben

G

6-4

315

25

R

Saskatchewan 

69

Thornton, Hugh

G

6-3

324

24

3

Illinois 

65

Arkin, David

G

6-5

310

27

4

Missouri State

60

Louis, Lance

G

6-3

323

30

6

San Diego State

73

Corbin, Will

G

6-6

320

24

R

Appalachian State

76

Reitz, Joe

G/T

6-7

323

29

5

Western Michigan

74

Castonzo, Anthony

T

6-7

311

26

5

Boston College

68

John, Ulrick

T

6-5

311

23

2

Georgia State

71

Good, Denzelle

T

6-5

340

24

R

Mars Hill

64

Hoover, Tyler

T

6-7

321

25

1

Michigan State

75

Mewhort, Jack

T/G

6-6

312

23

2

Ohio State

[CR91]

I don't think there's any reason to relegate Thornton to "depth player." Reitz is really good at guard, when healthy, which is the whole issue with him. I'm not sure Louis will stick on the final 53, so point taken there. If the staff wasn't willing to let the guys we have get a solid crack at playing guard, I think they'd have done something about it back in March.

 

I'm not turning up my nose at Evan Mathis, necessarily. I'm only saying that the greater need is at tackle. That seems logical to me, considering we got rid of a tackle, and were already thin at the position. We'll see what happens. If this means we bring on Mathis, great. But I don't think that's in the cards.

 

youre actually happy with Thornton's play?

[Lawrence Owen]

Finally.  But I think I am one of the minority that thinks we should not use it to sign Mathis.  Instead I think we should let our other guys fight for the spot-guard, since Mewhort will be tackle-, and use the total money we have now to try to get a couple signings out of the way.

Besides, I still think Mathis would cost too much for his age. And being he is a zone blockers and MAYBE have a 1-2 year deal, he may not even get the system before his contract is up.  just too much that worries me about him.

[JPFolks]

Evan Mathis.... My thoughts exactly... we are becoming the Eagles... with players old enough in NFL years to be in the BAND the Eagles!

[Superman]

youre actually happy with Thornton's play?

 

Not overall, no. But I understand that he's still young and has been limited by injuries. He has the physical tools, and has shown the ability to play at a high level at times. I think he could be one of our best linemen, if he can put it all together and stay healthy. 

[JPFolks]

It's not a refund. We didn't pay him $6.9m. We don't have to pay him $4m, and the $2.9m remains on the books for this year. 

 

I'm pretty sure you get it, I'm just a stickler for cap stuff. I didn't understand how it worked partly because people use all these terms interchangeably as if they all mean the same thing, so I try to use the correct terms the correct way.

 

Long story short -- and we're way past that -- Cherilus cap hit shrinks by $4m this year, and by $4.1m next year, and then disappears totally in 2017.

While all that is true SM, we need to acknowledge we are also without the player himself playing for us, so we get some money off the cap, but still have a hole on the O-Line.  Perhaps he wasn't WORTH it, which only means we overpaid horribly for the time we DID have him in my view, but alas, he's gone and either the guy from Canada or Mathis can fill the void.  

[CR91]

Not overall, no. But I understand that he's still young and has been limited by injuries. He has the physical tools, and has shown the ability to play at a high level at times. I think he could be one of our best linemen, if he can put it all together and stay healthy. 

 

you have a lot more faith in him then I do

[evilleseniorfan]

I THINK THIS SEALS THE DEAL

 

IT HAS BEEN AVAILABLE SINCE THE DRAFT, ESPECIALLY WITH ARIZONA.  WE WILL TRADE ONE TIGHT END AND/OR AT LEAST ONE WIDE RECEIVER FOR A SIGNIFICANT OL ADDITION. 

[Superman]

While all that is true SM, we need to acknowledge we are also without the player himself playing for us, so we get some money off the cap, but still have a hole on the O-Line.  Perhaps he wasn't WORTH it, which only means we overpaid horribly for the time we DID have him in my view, but alas, he's gone and either the guy from Canada or Mathis can fill the void.  

 

The guy from Canada -- Heenan? -- and Mathis play a different position. 

[CR91]

I THINK THIS SEALS THE DEAL

 

IT HAS BEEN AVAILABLE SINCE THE DRAFT, ESPECIALLY WITH ARIZONA.  WE WILL TRADE ONE TIGHT END AND/OR AT LEAST ONE WIDE RECEIVER FOR A SIGNIFICANT OL ADDITION. 

 

we're not trading allen or fleener, each are important to our offense with their individual skill set

[schwamm]

Now would be a good time to recall the annual run of "OMG... player XXX just got released!  Should we get them?".

 

Beyond giving the talent already on the roster a chance to see what they can do, and how they can mold together to form a cohesive line, we might consider that there are always several very talented players who don't fit their current roster, and get released prior to the start of the season.  Mathis will just be AN option.  Not the definitive one.  So don't blow any gaskets if the Colts don't sign him.

 

Patience, Grasshoppers.

[masterlock]

I THINK THIS SEALS THE DEAL

 

IT HAS BEEN AVAILABLE SINCE THE DRAFT, ESPECIALLY WITH ARIZONA.  WE WILL TRADE ONE TIGHT END AND/OR AT LEAST ONE WIDE RECEIVER FOR A SIGNIFICANT OL ADDITION. 

Not gonna happen.

[evilleseniorfan]

I disagree.  A trade will happen before training camp!

[Derakynn]

The guy from Canada -- Heenan? -- and Mathis play a different position. 

He was implying that we could sign Evan Mathis. (Not Robert)

[Superman]

He was implying that we could sign Evan Mathis. (Not Robert)

They both play a different position than the player we released.

[GoColts8818]

They both play a different position than the player we released.

i think the working theory is they could play guard so Mewhort could slide out to right tackle. I am inteterested to see what Heenan can bring. There might be some growing pains but he might provide a long term answer at guard. Doesn't change the fact they are light at tackle which I think was your point even if they sign Mathis. I think the Colts are more likely to be in the market for a tackle right now than a guard which is why I personally don't think they will sign Mathis but I could be wrong.

[Coltfreak]

For all of you that think that Donald Thomas is the answer or even good for crying out loud.....  What in the 2 yrs that he has been here did he show you in that game and a half he was in?

 

Seriously?????  I think some of you don't eve watch the games!!!!!!   What has Donald Thomas done to even deserve consideration from anyone above Reitz? Thorton? or even Holmes at RG not to mention players like Louis (who will be the starter IMO) or John, or Heenan?

 

This was a great move by Grigs.  Cherilus sucked

[GoColts8818]

I THINK THIS SEALS THE DEAL

 

IT HAS BEEN AVAILABLE SINCE THE DRAFT, ESPECIALLY WITH ARIZONA.  WE WILL TRADE ONE TIGHT END AND/OR AT LEAST ONE WIDE RECEIVER FOR A SIGNIFICANT OL ADDITION.

while I could see a trade (you can never rule it out with Grigson) player for player trades are rare in the NFL. I think if they make a move it will be giving up a draft pick for a player.

[crazycolt1]

I disagree.  A trade will happen before training camp!

I don't see any trade happening at all before training camp. There might be a chance of one happening after training camp but I highly doubt it. I think Grigson is done with trades at this point unless it's a deal that couldn't be turned down. We are not that short that a panic trade needs to be made.

[GoColts8818]

For all of you that think that Donald Thomas is the answer or even good for crying out loud..... What in the 2 yrs that he has been here did he show you in that game and a half he was in?

Seriously????? I think some of you don't eve watch the games!!!!!! What has Donald Thomas done to even deserve consideration from anyone above Reitz? Thorton? or even Holmes at RG not to mention players like Louis (who will be the starter IMO) or John, or Heenan?

This was a great move by Grigs. Cherilus sucked

well that game and half was better than anything Thorton has done as a starter. If Thornton had played well we wouldn't be having this converststion. As for Reitz he's decent but that position could easily be upgraded if someone better was there. So the Colts might as well at least see what they have in Thomas. Who knows maybe they will find out they have something there. Its not like the guys they have that can compete for that job have done so awesome you can't give Thomas a look see.

As for Gosder he was really good the first year of his deal and then hurt last year and appeared to struggle recovering from that and didn't want to restructure his deal. That's the NFL. Honestly it tells me the Colts really liked what they saw from Mewhort at right tackle. Enough so they were confident enough in his play they were willing to move on from Gosder.

[crazycolt1]

For all of you that think that Donald Thomas is the answer or even good for crying out loud.....  What in the 2 yrs that he has been here did he show you in that game and a half he was in?

 

Seriously?????  I think some of you don't eve watch the games!!!!!!   What has Donald Thomas done to even deserve consideration from anyone above Reitz? Thorton? or even Holmes at RG not to mention players like Louis (who will be the starter IMO) or John, or Heenan?

 

This was a great move by Grigs.  Cherilus sucked

So you see these players on a daily bases? I think the coaches and Grigson knows maybe a little more than us as far as knowing who can do what. Players do have the capabilities to improve with time and being coached up. There are players every season who lose their jobs to better players who some think come out of nowhere. Those players didn't come out of nowhere, they just earned their spots with hard work.

[Gavin]

I could see Grigson bringing in one of several players currently a FA:

 

-Jake Long (If healthy)

-Matt Hall (Former Colt...very raw but has some familiarity with the organization.....depth)

-Xavier Nixon (Same as Matt Hall though not as raw)

-Tyson Clabo (Former 1 time Pro Bowler released by Texans)

[DougDew]

IMO, AC, Reitz, Holmes, Herremans, JM will be the expected starting OL, unless someone else really shines at LG. I would expect Reitz to backup JM if JM gets injured, unless Ulrick John steps up in TC and pre-season.

And the media just can't ever seem to communicate the salary cap implications correctly.

A dead money cap hit by itself means little. The only comparison that is relevant is what will the cap hit be for GC if he is not on the roster compared to if he was.

[USAFHoosier]

I thought Reitz did a decent job in the playoffs last year. Thornton has a lot of potential and could step up. TC will be interesting. Can't wait till August 2nd.

[CR91]

I could see Grigson bringing in one of several players currently a FA:

 

-Jake Long (If healthy)

-Matt Hall (Former Colt...very raw but has some familiarity with the organization.....depth)

-Xavier Nixon (Same as Matt Hall though not as raw)

-Tyson Clabo (Former 1 time Pro Bowler released by Texans)

 

jake long I wouldnt mind at all. we might actually be able to keep mewhort at guard and have long start

[CR91]

I thought Reitz did a decent job in the playoffs last year. Thornton has a lot of potential and could step up. TC will be interesting. Can't wait till August 2nd.

 

nickovach destroyed him. no thanks

[pgt_rob]

nickovach destroyed him. no thanks

We got destroyed in every aspect of that game. But yeah...

[Colts_Fan12]

Please sign Mathis Grigs.......

[Bluefire4]

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/7/26/9042651/report-gosder-cherilus-is-healthy-colts-attempted-to-restructure-contract-before-releasing-him

 

This article explains that Cherilus is healthy and ready but the Colts didn't want him at this high of a contract. It also says they may want to resign him if he doesn't get any significant offers. This was said by Stephen Holder as well and not some random writer.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

If you keep doing what you are doing, expect to keep getting what you are getting.

Changes have to be made in order to get better results on the line.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Surprised at this point but he was bad last year. Opens a spot for someone. Going to be some interesting OL battles in camp!