Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[Bad Morty]

What I see is not a discussion. Its what I mentioned above.

There are several of us in here who have been having a pretty good discussion about the topic. The goal of internet discussion threads shouldn't be to convince people who disagree with you to suddenly agree with you. The next time that happens will be a first for the internet. Internet discussion forums exist specifically for people to carry on a back and forth on topical and evolving issues. There's really only one person in this thread who doesn't seem interested in the topic as much as criticizing some of the people who are participating in the discussion. Any guesses who I'm talking about? Just ignore the thread if you don't want to discuss it. As John Lennon once said, "it's easy if you try".

[Archer]

*yawn*

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/culture-beaker/deflategate-favored-foul-play-over-science

Sad that all you have is a press conference. Yep, reading body language is a way to convict someone .

 

Read this article.  Still the same old crap (written by Bostonian, of course), explaining how the PSI declines in cold temperatures.  Talked about doing experiments where they take a room temperature football and put in in a 42 degree fridge for 2 1/2 hours.  But do you suppose there's a reason that no one claims to have taken it back out, let it sit for ten minutes, and then measured it?  One would think if they were conducting experiments of this nature, that PSI reading would be the most important, given the current ridiculous "Colt balls warmed for five more minutes than the Pat balls" arguments.  Seems like those tests were conducted, but probably not reported because they didn't "exonerate" the Pats.

[southwest1]

So here's where you're losing me, SW. You are assuming he is guilty, fine. But that doesn't mean he is....and that is the case he will try to make during his appeal. Literally nothing new has come to light from the accusing side since he first spoke in response to it, so why would his silence while he waits to present his appeal do anymore damage??? Especially when the court of public opinion ruled the second that incorrect report dropped from Mort. It's no this fault that the appeal got delayed...it could have already been over and done with....the delay is what is making is seem like he's just hiding out and not speaking about it. 

 

The fact is, you don't know that he is guilty. You don't. I understand 100% why you think he is and that is perfectly reasonable, but as he himself said, there is an appeal coming up and he is part of that process. He was accused of something, he proclaimed his innocence, and I'm sure his lawyers instructed him not to speak about it until they have their opportunity at the appeal....we will all learn more once that runs its course. But right now, as more and more stories or articles are published that are providing other explanations for what might have happened, why would you all of a sudden think that the opinions that some had back when there were literally no accurate facts out there suddenly be more valid now?

I appreciate you reply as you are one of my favorite posters to discuss topics with on anything football related D13. Pay attention to what I highlighted in red. If Brady was on trial for murder, drug possession, child abuse, or financial wrong doing, I would agree with you 100% D13. However, the maximum penalty here is 4 game checks at the most. What of a self incriminating nature would Brady's legal team be protecting him from? It's only depleted air pressure. Tom's not facing a 30 year life sentence here & even if he swears he's innocent religiously, it's like getting busted going 40 in a 35 MPH zone by a cop.

 

Sure, you can plead your case in a court of law in front of a traffic court judge, but the magistrate is going to talk to both you & the cop who issued the citation & go "Sir, why in heaven's name are you making a mountain of a mole hill here? Did you really think I was going to dismiss the fine completely? The fact that you're throwing such a temper taunt trum about it makes me inclined to give you the maximum penalty I am allowed to issue now. But, I'll be fair & listen to your side of the story first." Then, if no contrition & personal responsibility is expressed by the ticket holder, the judge who might have reduced the fine initially, will bump up the fine for proclaiming innocence, wasting everyone's time, & refusing to acknowledge his role in getting the actual ticket. 

 

Tom isn't being oppressed here & his lawyers will guarantee that his civil rights are being protected. Silence on Tom's behalf actually looks worse over a minor offense that he could clear up in under 2 minutes with another press conference. If he's innocent why the delay? Again, he's not on trial for murder. What process? This case revolves around air pressure. It's not the OJ Simpson DNA trail here. I don't care if any or all NE fans think that football shows across America have already symbolically convicted Brady. His lawyers are present & accounted for to present a different version of events as Tommy remembers them. 

 

It doesn't take a hot shot legal team to clarify your "I don't think so" statement D13 & doing so in no way jeopardizes his pending appeal at all. NE fans wanna place all the responsibility on other people Goodell, Grigson, scientists, the referees...Instead of their very own HOF QB Tom Brady. Again Mr. Terrific isn't on trial for murder here just a 4 game suspension. 

[Carlos Danger]

Brady did it. He is also a whiny baby. Pats fans follow suit.

However....

This whole thing shouldn't tarnish his legacy any... To me, it's like throwing spit balls. It's against the rules. It's technically cheating, but it's not as serious as juicing, spying, or FA tampering.

I agree with Montana on this FTMP... Brady should be appealing regardless. Then he ought take his suspension and move on.

This whole thing is only still news because of the Pats organization being indignant and hiring junk science lobbying firms to refute the NFL's official report.

If his suspension is completely overturned, it will be worse for Brady's legacy, IMO. It'll get press like OJ 2.0... The public, outside of the Boston area, is satisfied with the findings of the Wells Report.

[amfootball]

If his suspension is completely overturned, it will be worse for Brady's legacy, IMO. It'll get press like OJ 2.0... The public, outside of the Boston area, is satisfied with the findings of the Wells Report.

LOL.

[Bad Morty]

Brady did it. He is also a whiny baby. Pats fans follow suit.

However....

This whole thing shouldn't tarnish his legacy any... To me, it's like throwing spit balls. It's against the rules. It's technically cheating, but it's not as serious as juicing, spying, or FA tampering.

I agree with Montana on this FTMP... Brady should be appealing regardless. Then he ought take his suspension and move on.

This whole thing is only still news because of the Pats organization being indignant and hiring junk science lobbying firms to refute the NFL's official report.

If his suspension is completely overturned, it will be worse for Brady's legacy, IMO. It'll get press like OJ 2.0... The public, outside of the Boston area, is satisfied with the findings of the Wells Report.

You make some good points. I think you are wrong though about AEI being a "junk science" firm. Again...I don't pretend to know what's going to happen. My guess is that Goodell sticks to his guns, this ends up in court, and like in Bountygate and independent arbitrator is appointed...and then who knows. It shouldn't be brushed aside that in the past 10 days, you've got legit heavyweights like AEI, the New York Times, and the Washington Post jumping on board the "defend Brady" band-wagon...my guess is that there are some real powerful strings being pulled behind the scenes right now. AEI is a pretty powerful political organization, particularly on the right wing side of the aisle. While I don't know the actual reason they got involved in this, I'm a little skeptical of the authors' claim that this was "just a water cooler discussion in the office and they decided to check it out"...somebody with some serious pull (and I'm not talking about Kraft) is involved here.

 

EDIT: I said you made some good points...I obviously missed your comparison to OJ...yeah...um...no.

[Shane Bond]

There are several of us in here who have been having a pretty good discussion about the topic. The goal of internet discussion threads shouldn't be to convince people who disagree with you to suddenly agree with you. The next time that happens will be a first for the internet. Internet discussion forums exist specifically for people to carry on a back and forth on topical and evolving issues. There's really only one person in this thread who doesn't seem interested in the topic as much as criticizing some of the people who are participating in the discussion. Any guesses who I'm talking about? Just ignore the thread if you don't want to discuss it. As John Lennon once said, "it's easy if you try".

Thank you proving my point.

[dynasty13]

I appreciate you reply as you are one of my favorite posters to discuss topics with on anything football related D13. Pay attention to what I highlighted in red. If Brady was on trial for murder, drug possession, child abuse, or financial wrong doing, I would agree with you 100% D13. However, the maximum penalty here is 4 game checks at the most. What of a self incriminating nature would Brady's legal team be protecting him from? It's only depleted air pressure. Tom's not facing a 30 year life sentence here & even if he swears he's innocent religiously, it's like getting busted going 40 in a 35 MPH zone by a cop.

 

Sure, you can plead your case in a court of law in front of a traffic court judge, but the magistrate is going to talk to both you & the cop who issued the citation & go "Sir, why in heaven's name are you making a mountain of a mole hill here? Did you really think I was going to dismiss the fine completely? The fact that you're throwing such a temper taunt trum about it makes me inclined to give you the maximum penalty I am allowed to issue now. But, I'll be fair & listen to your side of the story first." Then, if no contrition & personal responsibility is expressed by the ticket holder, the judge who might have reduced the fine initially, will bump up the fine for proclaiming innocence, wasting everyone's time, & refusing to acknowledge his role in getting the actual ticket. 

 

Tom isn't being oppressed here & his lawyers will guarantee that his civil rights are being protected. Silence on Tom's behalf actually looks worse over a minor offense that he could clear up in under 2 minutes with another press conference. If he's innocent why the delay? Again, he's not on trial for murder. What process? This case revolves around air pressure. It's not the OJ Simpson DNA trail here. I don't care if any or all NE fans think that football shows across America have already symbolically convicted Brady. His lawyers are present & accounted for to present a different version of events as Tommy remembers them. 

 

It doesn't take a hot shot legal team to clarify your "I don't think so" statement D13 & doing so in no way jeopardizes his pending appeal at all. NE fans wanna place all the responsibility on other people Goodell, Grigson, scientists, the referees...Instead of their very own HOF QB Tom Brady. Again Mr. Terrific isn't on trial for murder here just a 4 game suspension. 

 

The issue I have is that even though the act itself is no more than being caught going 40 in a 35 mph zone, what that violation represents in many people's eyes has become a bigger thing entirely. Everything about the guy has been questioned...his character, his legacy, everything. You may think it is 'only' a 4-game check, but just listen to the tone that many here have taken since January, you would think the guy was on trial for murder...and in a day when every little thing that is reported or said gets blown up the way it does, I honestly don't blame him one bit for not talking about it until his hearing. One misstep, one wrong thing said and he's cooked. Look at how you've clung to a single line in his press conference...why would he speak on it when nothing new has been reported, when nothing new has come out, and when every opposing fan already finds him guilty?

 

I totally understand your criticism of Patriots fans wanting to put all responsibility on other people instead of Tom, but at the same time, it's easy to do that at this point because we are aware of what their roles all were in this, while we are still awaiting to find out exactly what Tom's was. That's part of the whole 'waiting to reserve judgment' until you know the facts thing ;). It isn't his fault that the hearing was postponed and it has made us wait longer to hear him speak....that's just one of those things that has happened and that makes his silence on the matter seem even longer. 

[dynasty13]

Why is there a need to try to defend your team so vehemently to a few people in an other board for several days?.

 

1. You have nothing better to do.

2. Or you know you are guilty.

3. Or its your inferiority complex to Colts.

4. Or you are just a troll.

 

I am going with all 4.

 

With the fear of being called a stalker again because I had the audacity to respond to you, I must ask where you believe an inferiority complex to the Colts would have come from? That just seemed like an odd thing to throw in there given, well....you know...how things have gone lately.

 

But anyways, you seem not to really grasp what a message board is really for, and your post had me thinking...so lets flip it around shall we?

 

Why is there a need for you to argue so vehemently, while simultaneously providing nothing of substance, in this topic for several days?

 

1. You have nothing better to do

2. You know nothing was proven but you just hate hate hate the Patriots

3. It is your inferiority complex to the Patriots

4. You are just a troll

 

I think i'll go with all 4 as well.

[southwest1]

Just in case any Patriots fans are wondering, if either Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck were under the exact same microscope for identical circumstances as Tom Brady; right now I'd be saying the exact same thing. Just come clean, get this over with, or tell me in your words why the current perception about you is completely wrong.  Don't attack the Wells Report. Instead, document for me Brady what you did a week before the Championship Game & your routine during that night. After the Championship Game victory & before the actual SB, how much interaction & contact did you have with your 2 main ball boys both directly & text wise? Can I see your phone now Tom? 

 

You see, this is why VL's decision to bring up my owner Jim Irsay's personal issues carries no weight. 1. I never said anything negative about the NE Patriots owner Robert Kraft at all other than I thought that demanding an apology from the Commission before the Wells Report was even out was premature & a little over the top. I have tremendous respect for your owner who saved the CBA negotiations & our very own center Jeff Saturday at the time hugged him rightly so for that. 2. What relevancy at all does Jim Irsay's substance abuse issues have to do with Tom Brady & deflate gate? Nothing at all. Also, Jim Irsay may not be perfect & he has his faults but who doesn't? Jim's a kind & generous man & so is Robert. 3. Changing the subject just confirms that nothing I said was inacccurate & you have no answer as to why Brady can't stand up for himself. Will June 23rd change that? Perhaps. 4. If I wrongly presume Brady is guilty about depleted air pressure, what other than articles written by Boston  sympathizers do you show as proof that Brady is innocent of not knowing what happened during the night of the AFC Championship Game? Anybody can wait for other people to submit their beliefs while you simply laugh it off, claim this investigation is a witch hunt, & make some arbitrary body language argument. 

 

I get it. You're entrenched in your position & I'm entrenched in mine. Neither side is moving here. But, out of fairness to Brady, I will leave the door open a slight crack & give him 1 last shot to convince me what went down that night. Just like how I dislike how some Peyton Manning fans use his collective body of work to justify or minimize a playoff loss vs evaluating a single game...I don't care for how some NE fans are using Brady entire goodwill as a man & QB leader to minimize or sidestep what happened in 1 AFC Championship Game. 

[Nadine]

I have never said this before but, it's all I can think of to say 

 

[Gramz]

I have never said this before but, it's all I can think of to say

Nadine. :facepalm:

We'll need medication to get through week 6 this year.

[southwest1]

The issue I have is that even though the act itself is no more than being caught going 40 in a 35 mph zone, what that violation represents in many people's eyes has become a bigger thing entirely. Everything about the guy has been questioned...his character, his legacy, everything. You may think it is 'only' a 4-game check, but just listen to the tone that many here have taken since January, you would think the guy was on trial for murder...and in a day when every little thing that is reported or said gets blown up the way it does, I honestly don't blame him one bit for not talking about it until his hearing. One misstep, one wrong thing said and he's cooked. Look at how you've clung to a single line in his press conference...why would he speak on it when nothing new has been reported, when nothing new has come out, and when every opposing fan already finds him guilty?

 

I totally understand your criticism of Patriots fans wanting to put all responsibility on other people instead of Tom, but at the same time, it's easy to do that at this point because we are aware of what their roles all were in this, while we are still awaiting to find out exactly what Tom's was. That's part of the whole 'waiting to reserve judgment' until you know the facts thing ;). It isn't his fault that the hearing was postponed and it has made us wait longer to hear him speak....that's just one of those things that has happened and that makes his silence on the matter seem even longer. 

Because I respect you D13, I will openly confess to you that not everybody is as forgiving as I am. No, it doesn't mean I'm a saint nor do I have all the answers here. All it really means is that I, SW1, can look beyond 1 minor infraction & not claim that Brady is the anti-christ or a wolf in sheep's clothing. In other words, I like Tom Brady, think he's an elite QB, & believe he's a decent guy, good husband, & nice father. The reason why this story has blown up to epic proportions is because of Brady himself. Okay, maybe you're right, maybe I am attaching to much significance to the "I don't think so" cheater statement but you have to understand how my parents raised me. If you make a mistake, own it no matter how embarrassing the incident might be. People respect a person more when they say you know I let the situation escalate to a level I shouldn't have & for that I am genuinely sorry. But if you act all bewildered & confused like the most important player on the field who handles balls for a living & you get well compensated for doing that BTW, people tend to roll their eyes at a "I have no idea" how this situation happened routine. 

 

Yes, but SW1 why are you automatically presuming his guilty? What actions or additional statements has Brady issued to shed light on his own innocence since that 1st press conference? Zero, zilch, nada. He's waiting for his day in appeals court. It's not his fault the appeal was delayed. Why does Brady need to wait for June 23rd to explain why he doesn't think he's a cheater or not? Clarifying that statement takes nothing away from his case, but it might go a long way to rebuilding his reputation in the cheater area. How can anyone be unsure if they are a cheater or not? It's like being pregnant; Either you are or you aren't there's no wiggle room here. 

 

The postponing of the appeal is irrelevant because I would imagine that Brady's legal team is going to attack Ted Wells, the conclusions he reached, the fact that the gauge measurements weren't written down, & that Brady is a stud muffin QB who has never been penalized by the league before. The stature of the person who committed the violation is irrelevant. No special treatment can or should be given in this instance. It's like the slogan: "You break it; You bought it/all sales final." Ted Wells isn't on trial here: What Tom Brady knew & when he knew it is. If we agree that depleted air had no bearing on NE's ability to defeat INDY soundly 45-7 in the Championship Game, why are so many NE fans getting in a tizzy over which gauge was used when? You can't have it both ways Pats fans: You can't say your deflated balls did not determine the outcome of the game & then get so worked up over which gauge read which balls PSI like you just found the holy grail of arguments to free your QB of all wrong doing. Which is it? Depleted air did not allow NE kick the Colts caboose in that game or specific gauges did not measure the meaningless air of our footballs correctly? Damn, you pull on 1 string & the whole deflate gate conspiracy theory unravels like a spinning top. Son of a [rhymes with witch] LOL! 

 

People who hated Tom Brady & the Patriots to begin with will use deflate gate as an excuse to unfairly crucify him I agree 100% However, there are reasonable people out there who support Tom saying what the hades are you doing man? Get in front of this story & either control the narrative or just say my bad I made a boo boo. Please forgive me & people outside of Boston eventually would given enough time with no more monkey business on his QB watch. 

[Shane Bond]

Topic was started in my home forum by an outsider about an outside team.

LOL. Enough said.

[southwest1]

 

I totally understand your criticism of Patriots fans wanting to put all responsibility on other people instead of Tom, but at the same time, it's easy to do that at this point because we are aware of what their roles all were in this, while we are still awaiting to find out exactly what Tom's was. That's part of the whole 'waiting to reserve judgment' until you know the facts thing ;). It isn't his fault that the hearing was postponed and it has made us wait longer to hear him speak....that's just one of those things that has happened and that makes his silence on the matter seem even longer. 

Thank you so much for saying that D13. My respect for you just skyrocketed buddy! You're a good man & because of you I will wait until I hear from Brady a 2nd time before I close the book on this NFL chapter. 

 

Bravo Sir! 

[dynasty13]

Topic was started in my home forum by an outsider about an outside team.

LOL. Enough said.

Great post, dude. Seriously, A+ effort!

Yes, a topic was started in the NFL General section by a fan of another team.

That's freaking crazy!!! Whoa!!! Enough said indeed!

What the heck are you even talking about? For real though, what was the point of that post other than trying to incite and elicit angry responses? There's a word for that...

[Shane Bond]

Internet bravado continues  

[SteelCityColt]

Topic was started in my home forum by an outsider about an outside team.

LOL. Enough said.

Which is something they are perfectly entitled to do, we welcome fans of ALL teams and would expect ALL posters to post within the rules.

There is actually a decent enough discussion going on here underneath all the personal bickering.

[Jules]

Lets just wait and see what happens.......either way the Pats and Colts will likely be good teams this year and be in the playoffs. Nothing will likely change this barring major injuries.

 

And as time goes on I get very bored with deflate gate unless something new or big comes out on it or any reversal of suspension.

 

While I am no rah rah fan of Brady OR the Patriots, I can't say I blame Pats fans at times for defending their boys as hysterial as they sometimes can seem to us.

 

We all can get ultra reactionary and defensive when it comes to our beloved teams. We are just fans loving our teams. If put in the same position I bet we would be trying at times to find loop holes and things as well to get the Colts off. Maybe not all of us but some Colts fans would do it.

 

I can't blame the Pats fans at all at times. A few might go over board with it obviously but they are also trying to find information as well to grasp what is going on.

[Bad Morty]

Lets just wait and see what happens.......either way the Pats and Colts will likely be good teams this year and be in the playoffs. Nothing will likely change this barring major injuries.

 

And as time goes on I get very bored with deflate gate unless something new or big comes out on it or any reversal of suspension.

 

While I am no rah rah fan of Brady OR the Patriots, I can't say I blame Pats fans at times for defending their boys as hysterial as they sometimes can seem to us.

 

We all can get ultra reactionary and defensive when it comes to our beloved teams. We are just fans loving our teams. If put in the same position I bet we would be trying at times to find loop holes and things as well to get the Colts off. Maybe not all of us but some Colts fans would do it.

 

I can't blame the Pats fans at all at times. A few might go over board with it obviously but they are also trying to find information as well to grasp what is going on.

If the NFL told you that Andrew Luck couldn't play the first 4 weeks of this coming season, and there wasn't either a clear cut case that he had done anything wrong OR a precedent for that harsh a punishment even if he was guilty of what he was charged with as a first time offender, I would expect Colts fans to be apoplectic over it and with good reason. I watch the NFL to see guys like Tom Brady play football, not to marvel at what a "tough guy" Roger Goodell is. He issued a suspension that basically tells Pats fans "your 2015 season is over, and you aren't getting a draft pick either". I feel like the football season has been taken away from me barring a reversal of this suspension...that's why I'm angry about it.

[Nadine]

If the NFL told you that Andrew Luck couldn't play the first 4 weeks of this coming season, and there wasn't either a clear cut case that he had done anything wrong OR a precedent for that harsh a punishment even if he was guilty of what he was charged with as a first time offender, I would expect Colts fans to be apoplectic over it and with good reason. I watch the NFL to see guys like Tom Brady play football, not to marvel at what a "tough guy" Roger Goodell is. He issued a suspension that basically tells Pats fans "your 2015 season is over, and you aren't getting a draft pick either". I feel like the football season has been taken away from me barring a reversal of this suspension...that's why I'm angry about it.

I can understand being angry and disappointed.

[aaron11]

If the NFL told you that Andrew Luck couldn't play the first 4 weeks of this coming season, and there wasn't either a clear cut case that he had done anything wrong OR a precedent for that harsh a punishment even if he was guilty of what he was charged with as a first time offender, I would expect Colts fans to be apoplectic over it and with good reason. I watch the NFL to see guys like Tom Brady play football, not to marvel at what a "tough guy" Roger Goodell is. He issued a suspension that basically tells Pats fans "your 2015 season is over, and you aren't getting a draft pick either". I feel like the football season has been taken away from me barring a reversal of this suspension...that's why I'm angry about it.

you have to accept the fact that brady could be guilty though.  if you are expecting either 100% proof that he did it, otherwise he gets to play, think again.  it does not work like that with nfl suspensions.

 

if the investigation funded by the league said that it is more probable than not that he was involved, then they treat him as though he was involved.

[ColtsBlueFL]

{snipped}

 

The rest of your post is just non-sense IMO. Rules can be interpreted many different ways and to suggest all the owners and coaches are in agreement on this is silly. There is no such thing as violating a spirit of a rule. It is either legal or illegal and that play was legal last year. And will still be legal this year with a slight modification.

 

I just want to point out that yes, you can, violate the letter but not the spirit of a law, and vice versa.  And there is culpability for doing so.  There's "Black Letter Law" (law on the books) and Commonsense Justice, and it is what typical people think is just and fair.  Do you know who operates by commonsense justice? Jurors, for one. They are more thoughtful about the whole context and sensitive to intuitive notions of justice when they interpret the law to inform their verdicts.

 

Here's another scenario- say the speed limit on rural 2-lane highways in your state is 55 miles per hour.  You were observed going 57.  Did you break the Letter of the Law?  Did you break the Spirit (intent) of the Law?  Do you deserve a citation and stiff fine? Could you receive a citation and stiff fine?

[Bad Morty]

I just want to point out that yes, you can, violate the letter but not the spirit of a law, and vice versa.  And there is culpability for doing so.  There's "Black Letter Law" (law on the books) and Commonsense Justice, and it is what typical people think is just and fair.  Do you know who operates by commonsense justice? Jurors, for one. They are more thoughtful about the whole context and sensitive to intuitive notions of justice when they interpret the law to inform their verdicts.

 

Here's another scenario- say the speed limit on rural 2-lane highways in your state is 55 miles per hour.  You were observed going 57.  Did you break the Letter of the Law?  Did you break the Spirit (intent) of the Law?  Do you deserve a citation and stiff fine? Could you receive a citation and stiff fine?

not a bad analogy...and to take it further, we are now at the point where the driver has been given a 20 year prison sentence despite evidence that the cop's radar gun hadn't been properly calibrated, but all the other citizens in town think the 20 year sentence should stand because 7 months earlier the driver sent a text where he referred to himself as "the speeder".

[ColtsBlueFL]

not a bad analogy...and to take it further, we are now at the point where the driver has been given a 20 year prison sentence despite evidence that the cop's radar gun hadn't been properly calibrated, but all the other citizens in town think the 20 year sentence should stand because 7 months earlier the driver sent a text where he referred to himself as "the speeder".

 

And then there are documents the indicate that the radar was calibrated and documented, and the sentencing was mostly for obstruction of justice, not speeding...  and the drivers mechanic texts he adjusted the speedometer a couple miles per hour lower so drivers long trips went a tiny bit quicker...

[Bad Morty]

And then there are documents the indicate that the radar was calibrated and documented, and the sentencing was mostly for obstruction of justice, not speeding...

The sentence was not for obstruction of justice...it was a way for the previously unpopular sheriff to win back popular support by over-penalizing the guy with the expensive sports car that everyone else was envious of.

[ColtsBlueFL]

The sentence was not for obstruction of justice...it was a way for the previously unpopular sheriff to win back popular support by over-penalizing the guy with the expensive sports car that everyone else was envious of.

 

Well, somebody has got to pay, in Goodell's mind.  Taglibue basically said 'yeah everything the Saints did in bounty gate is true, but suspending players is bad for the game, so no suspensions for any players!!'  Then courts reduce or throwout all NFL's punishments, mostly for technical reasons. And there has been over a decade of chicanery by a certain team causing lot's of rules changes over time. So....

[Bad Morty]

Well, somebody has got to pay, in Goodell's mind.  Taglibue basically said 'yeah everything the Saints did in bounty gate is true, but suspending players is bad for the game, so no suspensions for any players!!'  Then courts reduce or throwout all NFL's punishments, mostly for technical reasons. And there has been over a decade of chicanery by a certain team causing lot's of rules changes over time. So....

That's the arrogance of the NFL, though. Players are why people watch the games. Most sports leagues understand that people want to see superstars playing. Why do you think all these crazy rules that basically don't allow defensive players to touch quarterbacks came from? They are in place because the NFL wisely figured out that the paying customers want to see Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers...not their backups while those guys are on I/R because they were knocked out. Yet here is Goodell putting the face of the league on the sidelines for a quarter of the season over incredibly thin evidence of an incredibly minor offense. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[ColtsBlueFL]

That's the arrogance of the NFL, though. Players are why people watch the games. Most sports leagues understand that people want to see superstars playing. Why do you think all these crazy rules that basically don't allow defensive players to touch quarterbacks came from? They are in place because the NFL wisely figured out that the paying customers want to see Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers...not their backups while those guys are on I/R because they were knocked out. Yet here is Goodell putting the face of the league on the sidelines for a quarter of the season over incredibly thin evidence of an incredibly minor offense. It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I might actually agree with you on the over the top 4 game suspension... except Brady didn't own it and say something like: " yeah, those guys were just trying to get them where I liked the (footballs).  I said to get them snuck through at even lower than 12.5 psi if at all possible.  i didn't know they might go to illegal lengths to do it though..." 

 

Something like that.  Yes something happened, because at the end of the day, there is no science anywhere that shows the Colts balls dropped nearly as much a Patriots balls on any gauge any time.  And McNally the Deflator stole them for the Refs room to sneek them into a private  bathroom. That there is enough for me.

[dw49]

?? What press conferences? He held the one in Jan after the conf title game said he was innocent. Then he won the SB and the post game conferences were about the game. He is obviously not saying anything now given the legal proceedings which also indicate that he feels he is innocent as he would not be appealing and potentially going to court.

 

 

Just curious. I for the heck of it googled "Brady deflate gate " and found a timeline of what transpired up to about the end of May. What I found interesting was the text between Brady and Jastremski. To me the text , to me it points to guilt. If he wasn't doing something with the balls , why would Brady be spending so much time with him.. making sure he was "OK ?" 

 

Anyway.. this is the first I have read about what the extent of the teeing was and some of the exchanges ...

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/09/us/nfl-deflategate-timeline/

[dw49]

*yawn*

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/culture-beaker/deflategate-favored-foul-play-over-science

Sad that all you have is a press conference. Yep, reading body language is a way to convict someone .

 

 

You're an educated bright guy. Would you please give me your take on this exchange between Brady and the "deflator "

 

This is one of extensive texting between the two just when the investigation was beginning. There was never a text between deflator and Brady in the previous 6 months. I mean .. none of the conversation between these two appeared to be laced with any humor. You have to be a stooge to buy the "joke thing."

 

Here ya go....

 

 

Later that day came more texts and calls.

Then, later:

"FYI...Dave will be picking your brain later about it," Jastremski wrote Brady, referring to Patriots head equipment manager Dave Schoenfeld. "He's not accusing me, or anyone... trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it's unrealistic you did it yourself." 

Jastremski added, "Just a heads up."

"No worries bud. We are still good," Brady responded.

In the Wells report, Jastremski says the words "knows it's unrealistic you did it yourself" were a joke, as cameras were on Brady during the game. "It" refers to deflating footballs.

[basspapaw]

You're an educated bright guy. Would you please give me your take on this exchange between Brady and the "deflator "

 

This is one of extensive texting between the two just when the investigation was beginning. There was never a text between deflator and Brady in the previous 6 months. I mean .. none of the conversation between these two appeared to be laced with any humor. You have to be a stooge to buy the "joke thing."

 

Here ya go....

 

 

Later that day came more texts and calls.

Then, later:

"FYI...Dave will be picking your brain later about it," Jastremski wrote Brady, referring to Patriots head equipment manager Dave Schoenfeld. "He's not accusing me, or anyone... trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it's unrealistic you did it yourself." 

Jastremski added, "Just a heads up."

"No worries bud. We are still good," Brady responded.

In the Wells report, Jastremski says the words "knows it's unrealistic you did it yourself" were a joke, as cameras were on Brady during the game. "It" refers to deflating footballs.

*Brady * Did it. He told them to get the balls where he liked them. His reference to " still good" leads me to believe that they have not found out yet. No other explanation is valid

[amfootball]

Just curious. I for the heck of it googled "Brady deflate gate " and found a timeline of what transpired up to about the end of May. What I found interesting was the text between Brady and Jastremski. To me the text , to me it points to guilt. If he wasn't doing something with the balls , why would Brady be spending so much time with him.. making sure he was "OK ?" 

 

Anyway.. this is the first I have read about what the extent of the teeing was and some of the exchanges ...

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/09/us/nfl-deflategate-timeline/

That was explained I believe by Yee. The investigation had just begun so naturally Brady would be talking to JJ given the guy had never been the focus of attention of before. No one even knew his name so Brady was making sure he was doing Ok with the media storm brewing. Brady also said they were discussing preparations for the Super Bowl as they had several phone and in person meetings after the AFCCG.

[dw49]

That was explained I believe by Yee. The investigation had just begun so naturally Brady would be talking to JJ given the guy had never been the focus of attention of before. No one even knew his name so Brady was making sure he was doing Ok with the media storm brewing. Brady also said they were discussing preparations for the Super Bowl as they had several phone and in person meetings after the AFCCG.

 

  Yeah... nice guy that Tom.  OK....and the remark "he knows it's unrealistic you did it by yourself ?" 

[amfootball]

  Yeah... nice guy that Tom.  OK....and the remark "he knows it's unrealistic you did it by yourself ?" 

Huh? Did you miss the part where it was the Pats equipment manager (Dave Schonefled) who was talking to JJ? He was asking JJ if the balls were deflated and Brady was telling JJ he was fine and JJ was saying to Brady that Dave knows it is unrealistic that Brady would have deflated the balls himself if they were indeed deflated. Again, they were discussing this the next day after the news of the investigation broke and no one knew at that point if anything had even happened to the balls and they are all trying to get to the bottom of it.

[HOZER]

lol

[dw49]

Huh? Did you miss the part where it was the Pats equipment manager (Dave Schonefled) who was talking to JJ? He was asking JJ if the balls were deflated and Brady was telling JJ he was fine and JJ was saying to Brady that Dave knows it is unrealistic that Brady would have deflated the balls himself if they were indeed deflated. Again, they were discussing this the next day after the news of the investigation broke and no one knew at that point if anything had even happened to the balls and they are all trying to get to the bottom of it.

 

 

Uh huh

[Bones_Jones]

I wonder if when Brady retires and the pats start to suck if all the patriot fans will leave the forum? Im going to guess yes.

 

 

that's a ridiculous assumption.   before BB/brady, boston was redsox/celtics/bruins town.  boston really didn't have to go all out for pats because they always had those 3 teams to root for.

 

but things have changed.   football is the most popular sports in the country and in boston.  pats own the city.  win or lose people live and die football.  thx to bb/brady, but also thx to how sports climate changed over the years.   winning changes the fan base. 

 

you can call them a fair weather fans all you want, but pats fanbase is here to stay. 

[NewColtsFan]

that's a ridiculous assumption.   before BB/brady, boston was redsox/celtics/bruins town.  boston really didn't have to go all out for pats because they always had those 3 teams to root for.

 

but things have changed.   football is the most popular sports in the country and in boston.  pats own the city.  win or lose people live and die football.  thx to bb/brady, but also thx to how sports climate changed over the years.   winning changes the fan base. 

 

you can call them a fair weather fans all you want, but pats fanbase is here to stay. 

 

You may be right.....   but nobody knows.    Because nobody knows what the Patrioits will be like after Brady and Belichick retire.

 

If the Pats fall back to the rest of the pack where some years they're good and some years they're not,  who knows how the fan base responds?     It's all speculation.    Again,  you may be right,  but that's not a sure thing....

[dw49]

lol

 

 

I'm slow... maybe you can help me. Other  words these three guys , Brady and the 2 equipment guys , were just trying to "straighten it all out ? " The one guy is telling Brady not to worry cause "they" know Brady wouldn't have somehow snuck the balls out and "DEFLATED THEM HIMSELF !!!!!! ????? Oh my aching butt....Yeah Tom ... don't worry ." Everyone knows you didn't steal the balls and stick them yourself" This is really funny stuff ...