Bjoern Werner: 'Since I've entered the league, I haven't been healthy one time'

[SteelCityColt]

No not really I'm sure Werner was high on our board too and Trent was better then any possible player in the 1st that year

So you're saying ignore the board? Draft solely on positional need?

[ColtsBlueFL]

{snipped : salient points}

PS - could a very nice poster tell me where I can get the best 'Elite Armchair GM' training course please. And while I mention it, my 'Hindsight Masters Degree'.

 

I lost the bookmarks on those.  :-(  However, I ran across this piece on how to determine if your teams first round pick is heading to bustville, or not...

 

*******************************************************************

 

The very easy and few steps necessary to avoid being considered a 1st round bust ( by Rabid Fan, all across the U.S.)

1. Handily beat out the vet on the team at the position you'll play.  Also beat out the vet on your backup position just to motivate him a little and cement the begining of your legacy.

2. Make a few game altering plays in your teams favor within the first few plays of starting.  Commit no rookie mistakes, at all.  None.  Get notably better each quarter!

 

3. Have whispers of OPOY or DPOY running through league circles by week 8.

4. Be considered a pro-bowl caliber talent by week 10

5. Be considered an All Pro caliber talent by week 13

6. Have some talking heads mention potential MVP candidate by week 17.

subtitles -

A. Miss no more than 3 quarters of play out of all 16 games combined

B. Keep arrests in season  under 4, and not for same item. Get all suspensions thrown out or overturned.

Just fulfill the items in the list above and the chance of the round 1 pick being labeled a bust are lowered by a, well, ummm,  a little... at least.

 

******************************************************************************

 

Couldn't find those other articles, but my new Sports mag just came in!  Gonna take a couple hours reading now...

 

[Superman]

Well no it doesn't, but it's a deflection away from what you were talking about.

Lets just say for arguments sake the FO had Dorsett highest on their board, is sticking to the board the right strategy?

 

Seriously, why even set up a board if you're not going to stick to it? 

[SteelCityColt]

Seriously, why even set up a board if you're not going to stick to it?

Well exactly, I'd rather stick to the board and miss then stick a pin in the pick. If you're consistently sticking to the board and missing then question the talent evaluation not the process.

[Superman]

Well exactly, I'd rather stick to the board and miss then stick a pin in the pick. If you're consistently sticking to the board and missing then question the talent evaluation not the process.

 

Yup.

[NewColtsFan]

Well exactly, I'd rather stick to the board and miss then stick a pin in the pick. If you're consistently sticking to the board and missing then question the talent evaluation not the process.

 

As he does every year, Grigson had about a 20 minute session with the media prior to the draft, and he may have been telegraphing what was going to happen.    He may have had a strong feeling that Dorsett was going to fall to 29.

 

Because Grigson literally said that all things being roughly equal,  if multiple players had roughly the same grade,  he'd go by position of need.

 

BUT....   if there was a player still on the board with a much higher grade -- even at a position of strength -- that would be the player he'd take.    As he explained,  why work for a year evaluating and grading the talent and then creating and lining up your board and then, at the moment of truth,  not follow the board?

 

Grigson said that day he'd take the much higher graded player even if the player was at a position of strength.   And that's exactly what happened.

 

Now,  maybe down the road, we'll all sit back and say Grigson doesn't know how to evaluate players and set-up a board.   But that's for somewhere down the road.  

 

I've said I would've taken Goldman.    But I've also said I won't bash Grigson for telling us what he'd do,  and then doing exactly that.     For better or worse,  he was a man of his word.    We're all hoping it's for the better.

[Colts_Fan12]

So you're saying ignore the board? Draft solely on positional need?

when there are really good players available at positions of need why not or when a position is really deep like WR was wait till later but Dorsett is already confirmed to be better then any late round WRs I guess

[OLD FAN MAN]

 

So, by your logic, the majority of EVERY first round, of EVERY draft, has been a bust? It's one thing to have high standards, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment and failure with your line of thinking.

that is why I say trade draft picks for proven talent, draft picks often are busts, proven talent is elite

[Blackhawk4]

that is why I say trade draft picks for proven talent, draft picks often are busts, proven talent is elite

[ColtsLegacy]

when there are really good players available at positions of need why not or when a position is really deep like WR was wait till later but Dorsett is already confirmed to be better then any late round WRs I guess

 

You're so far out of your depth.

[Colts_Fan12]

You're so far out of your depth.

so if a later round WR is as good or even better then Dorsett it makes our pick look so stupid

I just don't buy this board crap with Grigson he followed his board with the Werner pick and it has sure been a home run like you people act like following the board just started this year so it's a "perfect" draft strategy

Not everyone worships everything the colts FO does

[SOMDColtsfan]

I have a question and been thinking about for awhile. How would Werner fare a an ILB? Pagano stated he has "heavy hands", engages OL well and is good against the run. A "powerful" man. Sounds like fits the bill well for an ILB?   

[ColtsLegacy]

so if a later round WR is as good or even better then Dorsett it makes our pick look so stupid

 

This is *ic and not true.

I just don't buy this board crap with Grigson he followed his board with the Werner pick and it has sure been a home run like you people act like following the board just started this year so it's a "perfect" draft strategy

 

What are you even talking about? They follow their board because it'd be *ic not to. Why spend thousands upon thousands of man hours to rank these players if you're just going to throw it out come draft day? Reports are Dorsett was in the teens on the Colts board while someone like Malcolm Brown was a 2nd rounder. You don't like it. Great. Your "scouting" abilities mean nothing to me and they mean nothing to the Colts.

 

Not everyone worships everything the colts FO does

 

This has zero to do with worshipping the front office. Zip.

[OLD FAN MAN]

first time on this forum I have had a mod put on a rude cartoon in reply to my post

[Colts_Fan12]

so if a later round WR is as good or even better then Dorsett it makes our pick look so stupid

This is *ic and not true.

I just don't buy this board crap with Grigson he followed his board with the Werner pick and it has sure been a home run like you people act like following the board just started this year so it's a "perfect" draft strategy

What are you even talking about? They follow their board because it'd be *ic not to. Why spend thousands upon thousands of man hours to rank these players if you're just going to throw it out come draft day? Reports are Dorsett was in the teens on the Colts board while someone like Malcolm Brown was a 2nd rounder. You don't like it. Great. Your "scouting" abilities mean nothing to me and they mean nothing to the Colts.

Not everyone worships everything the colts FO does

This has zero to do with worshipping the front office. Zip.

yes no one said you shouldn't follow the board the point is grigsons boards haven't been that great cause he onviously blew the Werner pick

What I'm saying is everyone thinks going by the board was wonderful this year when I'm sure he followed the board in 2013 when he * our 1st rounder away

[ColtsLegacy]

yes no one said you shouldn't follow the board the point is grigsons boards haven't been that great cause he onviously blew the Werner pick

What I'm saying is everyone thinks going by the board was wonderful this year when I'm sure he followed the board in 2013 when he * our 1st rounder away

 

So, you should follow the board but don't follow the board because Grigson's boards suck because of one disappointing pick. Got it.

 

Can we just call this what it is? You're throwing a temper tantrum because you didn't get what you wanted. Your argument in this thread is all over the place and makes little sense.

[Jason_]

He has already reached back up status behind Mathis and Cole. Dont get me wrong, I think he will still get his chances but I think his chances are going to be a lot fewer now with Cole being brought in...maybe even cut by half, No reason to take Cole off the field for Werner unless he gets dinged up, Mathis should not come off the field unless he is not 100%, Im not really sure where Werner could be put to see a significant number of snaps

Disagree about mathis. I don't think we'll see him much on first downs. He's better against the run than he was at Sam but he's still not really that good. I'd save mathis for 2nd and 5 or more and third downs.

Besides, he's 36 (ish) and be hasn't played in over a year. I think we'll see combinations of cole, walden and werner on early downs and combos of mathis, cole and Newsome on passing downs. Not exclusively of course but the majority of the time.

[SteelCityColt]

when there are really good players available at positions of need why not or when a position is really deep like WR was wait till later but Dorsett is already confirmed to be better then any late round WRs I guess

This doesn't really make much logical sense...

You seem to have a problem differentiating between the process and the ability of the FO to evaluate talent. If you're saying Dorsett wasn't BPA, fine that's your opinion. Let's see how it plays out.

But don't berate the FO for sticking to their guns and taking who they thought was the best player.

Look, things happen in the NFL. Injuries, contract disputes, players losing form. If you're consistently drafting talented players, regardless of position, you're better set for long term sustained success. Drafting for need is as short sighted as a team going all out in FA to put them over the hump. How often does that work?

The only position I'd say is an exception to any of the above is QB, but that's a very unique position really when you think about it.

[SteelCityColt]

yes no one said you shouldn't follow the board the point is grigsons boards haven't been that great cause he onviously blew the Werner pick

What I'm saying is everyone thinks going by the board was wonderful this year when I'm sure he followed the board in 2013 when he * our 1st rounder away

Well actually you did when you said "sure why not" when asked about drafting need over BPA on the board?

[SteelCityColt]

first time on this forum I have had a mod put on a rude cartoon in reply to my post

Badge of honour

[akcolt]

Disagree about mathis. I don't think we'll see him much on first downs. He's better against the run than he was at Sam but he's still not really that good. I'd save mathis for 2nd and 5 or more and third downs.

Besides, he's 36 (ish) and be hasn't played in over a year. I think we'll see combinations of cole, walden and werner on early downs and combos of mathis, cole and Newsome on passing downs. Not exclusively of course but the majority of the time.

I think your exactly right. Werner will help get us to third down then we turn Mathis loose.

I thought Werner was on his way to a good season last year. In the preseason and early on he was close to making plays just didn't finish consistently.

He better this year or he's going to have trouble getting on the field. Cole Newsome Walden and Cam whom we are supposedly high on will all be looking for time.

I think Werner will put it together this year get stronger vs the run, better pressire bat some balls, sniff out screens. He may never get 12 sacks but I think he finds his game. It may be to get us to 3rd down.

As far as Grig's drafting I don't understand why all the long faces. 2012 first five rounds are all starters minus Ballards injury. Griff keeps sticking around too.

2013 class needs to show this year. It has looked weak Werner Holmes Hughes need to get on the field and make an impact. It would be nice if Thorton could win a spot somewhere too. LG if Jack kicks out to RT?

2014 went pretty well with 3 picks in the first 5 rounds. We ended up with Mewhort Moncrief Newsome toss in Kerr Dewey Quarles and Tipton as UDFA's. We may have something in Ulrich John as well. That's not bad.

Then this year it feels like we were pretty solid thru Robinson in the 6th. We will see about the other late picks Good and Herrerra. There are a couple of UDFA's already showing potential.

I think Dorsett Smith Anderson Geathers and potentially Parry contribute right away in some capacity.

If Werner turns out to be our biggest miss that's not so bad. It's time for the rest of 2013 to show up and play: Holmes and Hughes get it done.

[James]

that has already been established don't come into the convo half assed by just reading the end of it

You're not in a position to tell anyone what to do. And for your information, I have read the whole thread. I simply chose to comment on a question to which the answer is so obvious that the question shouldn't be asked.

[wig]

ok but we took Dorsett who has elite speed but prolly won't be very serviceable this year?

Neither of us know that right now.

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

So, by your logic, the majority of EVERY first round, of EVERY draft, has been a bust? It's one thing to have high standards, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment and failure with your line of thinking.

 

I agree.  Of course fans want their round 1 pick to be brilliant.  But this is the NFL, the best of the best and you have to crack into that core.  Rookies will make mistakes, and they will struggle. The one's with potential will show flashes of excellence too.  I seem to think even Freeney and Mathis struggled in their first season.

 

OTOH, if you are not improving on your rookie season by year 3, then something is rotten in the state of Denmark.  Hopefully  a position change and a healthier Werner will makes us all forget about Xavier Rhodes.

[NewEra]

Some really good comic relief in this thread...

[rock8591]

VAST majority of college players are busts in the NFL.

 

Just look at 2013 draft, round 1.

[Yoshinator]

VAST majority of college players are busts in the NFL.

 

Just look at 2013 draft, round 1.

Round 1 was horrible, you could argue round 2 in 2013 was just as good, if not better.

[ColtsBlueFL]

first time on this forum I have had a mod put on a rude cartoon in reply to my post

 

Well, Mods are fans too.  And the fan inside must have felt completely speechless, thus the time honored Fan Forum .gif post in reply.

 

I believe it is directed to the point of view or statement presented, not to you as a person.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Some really good comic relief in this thread...

 

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

first time on this forum I have had a mod put on a rude cartoon in reply to my post

We all make posts that are not thought through before we hit send, and when we do the sharks will circle.

A team needs to find cheap/cap friendly players through the draft to fill out a roster, veterans require

a healthy paycheck to pick up stakes and move.

 

Giving up a first rounder for T Rich sticks out that "talent" over draft picks trumps all. It is a gamble either way,

just one is cap friendly.

[Superman]

Disagree about mathis. I don't think we'll see him much on first downs. He's better against the run than he was at Sam but he's still not really that good. I'd save mathis for 2nd and 5 or more and third downs.

Besides, he's 36 (ish) and be hasn't played in over a year. I think we'll see combinations of cole, walden and werner on early downs and combos of mathis, cole and Newsome on passing downs. Not exclusively of course but the majority of the time.

 

Just FYI, Mathis is 34, he'll be 35 in February. 

 

I don't think he'll be in the lineup in the first part of the season. 

[Superman]

So, you should follow the board but don't follow the board because Grigson's boards suck because of one disappointing pick. Got it.

 

Which then begs the question: Exactly whose board should they follow? 

[Jason_]

Just FYI, Mathis is 34, he'll be 35 in February.

I don't think he'll be in the lineup in the first part of the season.

Thanks for the correction. I didn't think 36 sounded right so I added the ish normally would have Googled it but I was on my phone and was just too lazy at the time to switch to the browser lol

[CanuckColt]

ok but we took Dorsett who has elite speed but prolly won't be very serviceable this year?

Yep...true...he will be 'serviceable', but later in the year when he learns the offense and has gets his route-running down pat.

He will always be a deep threat...throw it as far as possible and let him run under it....but that does not mean he is fully functional in the Colts offense.  As for helping out by blocking a DB, I doubt he ever blocked anyone on a regular basis.

It will take some time.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I like Bjoern, I have seen signs of him being a good player. Love to see it happen this year. A lot of guys at his position this year though. You have to see the field to improve. For those who think he was over drafted. Honestly he was drafted right where he was suppose to be that year. Jury is still out on this kid IMO! Hopping for the best for him!

[Superman]

I like Bjoern, I have seen signs of him being a good player. Love to see it happen this year. A lot of guys at his position this year though. You have to see the field to improve. For those who think he was over drafted. Honestly he was drafted right where he was suppose to be that year. Jury is still out on this kid IMO! Hopping for the best for him!

 

It's hard to call anyone in that first round "overdrafted." It was a pretty bad first round. Travis Frederick was considered "overdrafted" at the time, and look how that's turned out. Best bet would have been Larry Warford, and he went in the third. Weird draft.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

It's hard to call anyone in that first round "overdrafted." It was a pretty bad first round. Travis Frederick was considered "overdrafted" at the time, and look how that's turned out. Best bet would have been Larry Warford, and he went in the third. Weird draft.

Over drafted hum I guess what I am trying to say is Werner was considered by most 1 of the top pass rushers in the draft. Most people even thought he slid to the Colts! You draft with the information you have on hand at the time. Most thought it was a good pick. I know I did. I I still believe there is a good player in him. Hope to see it this year.

[NewEra]

Then youngster, you need to keep yourself healthy and come ready to play your butt off. And for gods sake learn some more rush moves. This isn't college bro.

[Peterk2011]

I just hope Werner won't be the next Jerry Hughes, struggling in Indy and blossoming to a very good player elsewhere. As I recall, Hughes also had his own history of injuries during his years over here.

[masterlock]

Bjoern Werner's combine numbers are almost identical to Paul Kruger's, if not slightly better, and his production in college is undeniable. Nobody thought Werner was an athletic freak, but he was and still is athletic enough where he could succeed in this league if he could get his % together.

He needs to get functionally stronger and he needs to learn how to use his hands, how to successfully use swim and rip moves.

I think Werner is a good football player and a good tackler, even if he's not great at his position. He might be better suited to play middle linebacker of SAM.