Bjoern Werner: 'Since I've entered the league, I haven't been healthy one time'

[Stoney]

True, but Werner isn't built for this lifestyle. Least not 1st round pick worthy

You gotta be a different breed of a football player to be a first rounder. Werner isn't that at all

All first round picks have to be a different breed huh.. I'd agree with you if you said "you have to be a different breed to be a TOP 10 PICK" but no..the talent level usually drops off pretty dramatically once you even just get into the 20s. It's pretty hit and miss after that.

[C0lts088]

No, you just stink!

Stop with the excuses

He was a "healthy" scratch last season in the AFCCG I believe it was or one of those games. There's nothing wrong with him, except he's a bust

Richardson was the healthy scratch; Werner was out due to a nagging injury.

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

Richardson was the healthy scratch; Werner was out due to a nagging injury.

Actually "the man who shall not be named" was suspended not as much a scratch. Scratch normally means late he wasn't

[Dustin]

If you switch the word "healthy" with "good" the statement is still true.

[NewColtsFan]

Grigson took a project player with a first round pick, bust written all over it

You don't take someone who's never played a certain position and force them to play a new position with your first round pick

That's just bad for business *Triple H Voice*

 

Oh,  you mean like when Detroit took Ziggy Ansah who had barely played any football at all with the 5th overall pick and he's turning into a very good player.....

 

Taking a project in the first round happens far more than you think.

 

Sometimes it doesn't work out.    But sometimes it does.

 

Just saying you never do that because it's "bad for business" is just bad for the internet...

[Deathiltis]

I don't even...Are you serious?

Why are you people making these ridiculous statements? It's like you enjoy saying something absurd just to make people scratch their heads wondering

Thinking Bjeorn was a good fit is what is really disturbing.

[SteelCityColt]

True, but Werner isn't built for this lifestyle. Least not 1st round pick worthy

You gotta be a different breed of a football player to be a first rounder. Werner isn't that at all

 

Care to quantify this? How is one exactly "built" for the lifestyle?

[SteelCityColt]

If you switch the word "healthy" with "good" the statement is still true.

 

You know what I don't have an issue with this statement, because he hasn't been good. It may well be true that he's not been healthy, but NFL guys play dinged up all the time so while I won't berate him for it, I'm also not going to use it as an excuse to justify his poor performance. 

 

What I do have an issue with is people using hindsight to criticise the pick with some just plain absurd comments, that and descending to calling the guy a bum. Sure he's not played very well but he's never had any character issues as fair as I'm aware. Not like say a certain RB who plainly wasn't fully committed during his time here. 

 

It's getting a little old that people seem to latch onto a player/coach and bash them blindly without any form of reasoning or analysis behind it, still that's the beauty of a forum for people to voice their opinion...

 

 

"I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking. It cannot be so easily discovered if you allow him to remain silent and look wise, but if you let him speak, the secret is out and the world knows that he is a fool."

 

 

BTW just to be clear, not aimed at you Dustin despite quoting you!

[TKnight24]

Healthy scratch Bjoern Werner had earned a -5.9 grade from @PFF through the first two rounds of the playoffs despite playing only 63 snaps.

— Patrick Daugherty (@RotoPat)

January 18, 2015

[TKnight24]

Richardson was the healthy scratch; Werner was out due to a nagging injury.

Here, and also right above this post

https://twitter.com/HorseshoeHeroes/status/556951202026373121

[pgt_rob]

After watching him the past 2 seasons, he hasn't been very good at his position. It's going to be hard to prove himself when he's constantly injured.

[12isthenew18]

Technically if anyone forgot at one point in the season Werner was a top 5 prospect

[Dustin]

You know what I don't have an issue with this statement, because he hasn't been good. It may well be true that he's not been healthy, but NFL guys play dinged up all the time so while I won't berate him for it, I'm also not going to use it as an excuse to justify his poor performance. 

 

What I do have an issue with is people using hindsight to criticise the pick with some just plain absurd comments, that and descending to calling the guy a bum. Sure he's not played very well but he's never had any character issues as fair as I'm aware. Not like say a certain RB who plainly wasn't fully committed during his time here. 

 

It's getting a little old that people seem to latch onto a player/coach and bash them blindly without any form of reasoning or analysis behind it, still that's the beauty of a forum for people to voice their opinion...

 

 

"I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking. It cannot be so easily discovered if you allow him to remain silent and look wise, but if you let him speak, the secret is out and the world knows that he is a fool."

 

 

BTW just to be clear, not aimed at you Dustin despite quoting you!

 

I know you said this isn't aimed at me, but I just want to make it clear that I said he was too slow and stiff to succeed when we first drafted him. 

[Dustin]

Technically if anyone forgot at one point in the season Werner was a top 5 prospect

 

He was rated that high because people didn't realize how bad of an athlete he was. He was a top 5 guy the same way Jarvis Jones was, in that he never was, it just took a while for fans and national scouts to catch up to the NFL GMs.

[NagelHausForge]

The level of butthurt in this topic is amazing....

 

Werner's performance certainly has been a bit underwhelming in terms of production.  He had a couple good games early in the season last year but overall he hasn't shown to be worth the 1st round pick we used on him.  I hope that changes this year and he finally produces to the level that many fans hoped he would.  He was one of the players I was pulling for when he was drafted and I liked his style.  Still do. 

 

I think it is still too early to call him a bust.  let's see what he does this season before we drop that label on him.  Maybe he was injured or maybe he was worn down by the season.  Who knows.

[pgt_rob]

“I don’t want to sound cocky, but personally, I feel like when I’m out there and healthy, I can be a baller,” Werner said, via the Indianapolis Star. “I can do it all. You always have to get that mojo going of course. But I’m telling you, I’m confident I can be an NFL player and a starter in this league.”

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/28/bjoern-werner-if-im-healthy-i-can-be-a-baller/

[lollygagger8]

I am not defending him. What I am doing is pointing out how you, Colts449 and Deathiltis cannot help but say something ridiculous that is either off topic or just doesn't make sense. I can't even have a legitimate debate nor do I even want one at this point about this with any of you three because you cannot help but say something so mindblowingly bad that it makes trying to have an even semi intelligent debate with you the most pointless thing I could do right now.

[ColtsLegacy]

He was rated that high because people didn't realize how bad of an athlete he was. He was a top 5 guy the same way Jarvis Jones was, in that he never was, it just took a while for fans and national scouts to catch up to the NFL GMs.

Bjoern Werner's combine numbers are almost identical to Paul Kruger's, if not slightly better, and his production in college is undeniable. Nobody thought Werner was an athletic freak, but he was and still is athletic enough where he could succeed in this league if he could get his % together.

He needs to get functionally stronger and he needs to learn how to use his hands, how to successfully use swim and rip moves.

[SteelCityColt]

I know you said this isn't aimed at me, but I just want to make it clear that I said he was too slow and stiff to succeed when we first drafted him. 

 

I think you've earned the credibility on here with your breakdowns to be able to say that and I have no doubt that you said something at the time to that effect. I was more grinding my gears about people who make statements in hindsight passing them off as "I told you so"... quite often with no football substance at all. 

[Chucklez]

I'm not saying that this isn't a valid or true statement re: Werner's play. But it does seem awfully convenient... 

[Dustin]

Bjoern Werner's combine numbers are almost identical to Paul Kruger's, if not slightly better, and his production in college is undeniable. Nobody thought Werner was an athletic freak, but he was and still is athletic enough where he could succeed in this league if he could get his % together.

He needs to get functionally stronger and he needs to learn how to use his hands, how to successfully use swim and rip moves.

 

Werner is one of the least athletic edge rushers to go in the first round in recent history

 

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4288/position/19/

 

The only edge who was/is a worse athlete to go in the first that I can recall is Jarvis Jones.

[TKnight24]

I'm not saying that this isn't a valid or true statement re: Werner's play. But it does seem awfully convenient...

Either he's lying or the are rule breakers. I'm almost certain you can't healthy scratch someone who's not healthy. Gotta be a rule for that

[Jason_]

Bjoern Werner's combine numbers are almost identical to Paul Kruger's, if not slightly better, and his production in college is undeniable. Nobody thought Werner was an athletic freak, but he was and still is athletic enough where he could succeed in this league if he could get his % together.

He needs to get functionally stronger and he needs to learn how to use his hands, how to successfully use swim and rip moves.

 

Thank you!.  I've been trying to make that point since the guy was drafted, yet still the comments continue about how unathletic he is etc etc.  If Kruger can turn into a 10+ sack per year player then there is no reason Werner can't either...however he's going to have to put in the work and have a little bit of luck in regards to health, but he can be a much better player than he has been so far.

[Dustin]

Thank you!. I've been trying to make that point since the guy was drafted, yet still the comments continue about how unathletic he is etc etc. If Kruger can turn into a 10+ sack per year player then there is no reason Werner can't either...however he's going to have to put in the work and have a little bit of luck in regards to health, but he can be a much better player than he has been so far.

Kruger has had 10+ sacks once in his career.

[ColtsLegacy]

Werner is one of the least athletic edge rushers to go in the first round in recent history

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4288/position/19/

The only edge who was/is a worse athlete to go in the first that I can recall is Jarvis Jones.

So what? Ryan Kerrigan was 16th overall with similar numbers. Jared Allen had similar numbers, Pernell Mcphee worse numbers, Jonathan Newsome had very similar numbers, the list goes on. He's not a great athlete, as I said, but there's plenty of evidence of similar athletes who have great careers.

[TKnight24]

So what? Ryan Kerrigan was 16th overall with similar numbers. Jared Allen had similar numbers, Pernell Mcphee worse numbers, Jonathan Newsome had very similar numbers, the list goes on. He's not a great athlete, as I said, but there's plenty of evidence of similar athletes who have great careers.

So disrespectful you'd put Werner in the same class as the others

Newsome equaled Werner's sack numbers in one season

Throw combine numbers & all that other irrelevant stuff out the window. Field production is what matters and it's clear Werner will be nothing but a backup even when Cole & Mathis leave the Shoe

[ColtsLegacy]

So disrespectful you'd put Werner in the same class as the others

Newsome equaled Werner's sack numbers in one season

Throw combine numbers & all that other irrelevant stuff out the window. Field production is what matters and it's clear Werner will be nothing but a backup even when Cole & Mathis leave the Shoe

. I'm really not sure if you didn't understand the point I was making or if you just chose to ignore it and have your own argument.

[Dustin]

So what? Ryan Kerrigan was 16th overall with similar numbers. 

 

No he didn't.

 

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/458/

 

Jared Allen had similar numbers

 

 

No he didn't.

 

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/2294/

 

 Pernell Mcphee worse numbers

 

 

This one is actually true. But McPhee is a hybrid DT/LB and won in a different way (speed to power).

 

 Jonathan Newsome had very similar numbers

 

 

Ehh this one is a not really. Newsome was better across the board, and he really isn't even that good to begin with.

 

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4563/position/19/

 

He's not a great athlete, as I said, but there's plenty of evidence of similar athletes who have great careers. 

 

 

Outliers or players who win in different areas (speed to power, strength, bend, ect.....).

 

There's only 3 types of edge rusher who succeed in the NFL: those who win with speed to power, those who win with bend/flexibility around the edge, and those who win with length and hands. None of these describe Werner. 

 

Werner has failed because he's not a good enough athlete to succeed. He's a pure speed rusher with no speed. 

[Chucklez]

Either he's lying or the are rule breakers. I'm almost certain you can't healthy scratch someone who's not healthy. Gotta be a rule for that

He very well might have been injured for the AFCCG, im not disputing that at all. I just mean the story behind him being constantly injured since joining the Colts and playing through it being a huge cause for why he hasnt played to what we all hoped his potential would be yet. That is what seems like a convenient excuse. 

Again im not saying it isnt true, just that is is in fact convenient...

[ColtsLegacy]

No he didn't.

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/458/

No he didn't.

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/2294/

This one is actually true. But McPhee is a hybrid DT/LB and won in a different way (speed to power).

Ehh this one is a not really. Newsome was better across the board, and he really isn't even that good to begin with.

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4563/position/19/

Outliers or players who win in different areas (speed to power, strength, bend, ect.....).

There's only 3 types of edge rusher who succeed in the NFL: those who win with speed to power, those who win with bend/flexibility around the edge, and those who win with length and hands. None of these describe Werner.

Werner has failed because he's not a good enough athlete to succeed. He's a pure speed rusher with no speed.

I'm on my phone and reading that site is confusing on mobile but according to Wikipedia the combine numbers for Allen and Kerrigan were largely similar to Werner's.

Why can't Werner be a Paul Kruger type? He has great get off speed and he's fairly strong. I agree he can't succeed as a pure speed rusher, however, he doesn't have the bend or speed for that. That's why I said he needs to improve his functional strength and his hand usage. If he wants to be successful in this league as a pass rusher it will be more in the vein of a Paul Kruger type. In college he showed that he could beat guys with more than just his get off and speed, we need him to show that in the pros.

[ProblChld32]

I wouldnt say that he is a bust, i think he is better suited against the run than rushing the passer. Im not giving up on Werner yet, I like the kid and he is making the effort to improve himself. Hopefully Cole can help him add some more pass rush moves to increase his ability to get to the QB. 

[Jay Kirk]

This forum is full of hindsight geniuses.

  good one.

[Jason_]

Kruger has had 10+ sacks once in his career.

 

That was also his first year as a full time starter.  All things considered, I don't see much reason to think he won't be able to have similar production for the next few years.

[Dustin]

That was also his first year as a full time starter. 

 

Not true at all. He played 919 snaps this season compared to 887 in 2013 and 1068 in 2012. 

[throwing BBZ]

It's always this excuse when players don't play well. "I'm injured" no, you just stink

Trent Richardson blamed injuries and his weight for his poor play. But we all know the truth

 

 Yet he actually played pretty well. So your point is just SAD.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

"In his rookie season, Werner battled foot and knee injuries that slowed his development. Last season it was a sore shoulder that derailed his season, causing coach Chuck Pagano to make a difficult decision in the season's biggest contest, the AFC Championship Game. Until then, Werner had been trying to gut it out in spite of the obvious toll the shoulder injury took."

 

Sounds like his injuries have been pretty well-documented, and he's been playing through them. 1st rounder or not, it's pretty clear he's had some health issues that have held him back.

[Superman]

Who gives a %?

 

:: raises hand ::

 

Xavier Rhodes would have been an excellent pick, and much better than Werner. I don't see why that's out of bounds to bring up.

[Dustin]

 Yet he actually played pretty well. So your point is just SAD.

 

Only in your world can Anthony Castonzo be bad and Werner is good. 

[Dustin]

:: raises hand ::

 

Xavier Rhodes would have been an excellent pick, and much better than Werner. I don't see why that's out of bounds to bring up.

 

So would have DeAndre Hopkins. 

[Superman]

I'll just say -- again -- Werner isn't a good pass rusher, but he's a pretty good Sam. That's not what you want from a first rounder, so he's not a good pick. But this whole "he's a project, he's not a scheme fit" business is just totally wrong. As has been pointed out many times in this very thread, the majority of NFL 3-4 OLBs played 4-3 DE in college. The difference is that they're better pass rushers, fundamentally, than Werner is. Newsome is an excellent example of this; also a 4-3 DE in college, he's just a better pure pass rusher. 

 

It reminds me of how people spent three years talking about how Jerry Hughes was an OLB in college. Sometimes people just say things without regard for whether they're true, just because they sound good. Werner is actually a really good scheme fit, just at Sam, not Rush. The things that 4-3 DEs struggle with as 3-4 OLBs -- playing in space, setting the edge, etc. -- Werner is pretty good at. It's actually the traditional 4-3 DE stuff -- like edge rush -- that he hasn't done well.