NFL/Patriots Deflategate compromise UPDATE: Pats will not appeal

[Yehoodi]

Why do people keep saying this can only happen in home games? Don't both teams bring their own balls?

 

I think the question arises is that the home team has custody of the balls once they leave the locker room.  So there really can not be any hanky panky by an away team as they do not really get their hands on the balls post locker room.  As for submitting balls knowingly not in spec., that can happen home or away.

[Restored]

Yes when they handled out the fine which they did base on how they acted, then yes.   If we can not treat our teams and players equally then what do we have in the end?  Thanks is my point on the matter.

 

Players and teams are not treated equally because the infractions are not equal.

 

/thread

[JPFolks]

Ah, okay, I got you now.  I wasn't understanding.  But that would be pretty interesting to see.  It sure as heck would make Brady look awful, that's for sure.  I don't see the league sitting on those texts and waiting to bring them out in a "gotcha!" moment, because then it would just give more credibility behind the argument that the NFL ran a sting on the Pats during the AFC CG.  Plus, I don't think there's really a need to do so anyway, they've already suspended him.  Perhaps if this were appealed to the Federal Courts, then maybe, because at least then, it would be necessary (if it existed, that is) to justify the Leagues suspension.

They wouldn't do it now.  He has smart lawyers.  There's obviously additional texts on his phone that could make things worse/clearer (or if he were truly clean, they would have jumped at the offer).  But his smart lawyer knew that he couldn't turn it all over, and the sting may well be in if he didn't but SAID he gave it all to them.  So they passed.  Only a guilty person passes under the terms offered by the league.  It was completely the "honor" system, but it didn't matter, they didn't know for sure what the NFL had, or what it might turn up later.  

 

As for the notion it was a "sting" keep this in mind.  You can't STING and HONEST, INNOCENT person.  If they weren't cheating, the balls, at worst, would have measured what the Colt's balls did at halftime. In addition, you wouldn't have so many circumstantial pieces of evidence that matched a PREDICTION/CONCERN given by the Colts.  How could all those unlikely "coincidences" one upon another, occur if they were honest.  If it quacks like a duck....

[ColtRider]

"The start" was when the Patriots started deliberately breaking the rules. I really don't get this line of reasoning. They did something wrong, they got penalized for it. I don't understand the whole "why didn't you warn us before catching us in the act?" defense. It's a deflection.

Superman puts this as "succinctly" (ha ha) as possible. Here's what this whole thing boils down to, IMO. If I'm a judge, juror, advocate, et.al and evaluating evidence from an objective point of view, I cannot get past two incriminating pieces of jargon here ...

1. The "Deflator"

2. The plurality of texts between Brady, McNally, and Jastremski concerning one single game

How exactly does Brady explain this? And, this doesn't include any more evidentiary facts that may come to light down the court-beaten

path.

It's a "preponderance of evidence" to say the least. It's "more likely than not" to attain a verdict of "guilty as charged" ruling/verdict.

[Gramz]

Having an afternoon rain shower at tbe beach and doing a little reading on here.

There's always been a friendly rivalry, and sometimes not so friendly on here between us and the Pats fans.

Wow it's gone to a whole new level here now.

[ColtRider]

Yes when they handled out the fine which they did base on how they acted, then yes.   If we can not treat our teams and players equally then what do we have in the end?  Thanks is my point on the matter.

Gotcha. And, understood. As far as Goodell and his punishment of Brady and the Patriots are concerned, the word "integrity", isn't as elusive as you may seem to think. The ruling itself indicts upon that foundation after Brady was uncooperative with Wells, IMO.

[OffensivelyPC]

They wouldn't do it now.  He has smart lawyers.  There's obviously additional texts on his phone that could make things worse/clearer (or if he were truly clean, they would have jumped at the offer).  But his smart lawyer knew that he couldn't turn it all over, and the sting may well be in if he didn't but SAID he gave it all to them.  So they passed.  Only a guilty person passes under the terms offered by the league.  It was completely the "honor" system, but it didn't matter, they didn't know for sure what the NFL had, or what it might turn up later.  

 

As for the notion it was a "sting" keep this in mind.  You can't STING and HONEST, INNOCENT person.  If they weren't cheating, the balls, at worst, would have measured what the Colt's balls did at halftime. In addition, you wouldn't have so many circumstantial pieces of evidence that matched a PREDICTION/CONCERN given by the Colts.  How could all those unlikely "coincidences" one upon another, occur if they were honest.  If it quacks like a duck....

To the bolded, this is exactly the correct thing that I think so many Pats fans, or at least many of the ones on here, refuse to accept when they say that "had the league handled this and notified the Patriots before the game..."  The bottom line is, if you don't want to get caught cheating, don't cheat.  

[Shane Bond]

Crazy that AM finally gave up and now Dynasty steps in and takes over battling the whole forum with even more faulty logic. 

I am shocked

[Warhorse]

Guilty. Cheaters. I'm out....

[OffensivelyPC]

Superman puts this as "succinctly" (ha ha) as possible. Here's what this whole thing boils down to, IMO. If I'm a judge, juror, advocate, et.al and evaluating evidence from an objective point of view, I cannot get past two incriminating pieces of jargon here ...

1. The "Deflator"

2. The plurality of texts between Brady, McNally, and Jastremski concerning one single game

How exactly does Brady explain this? And, this doesn't include any more evidentiary facts that may come to light down the court-beaten

path.

It's a "preponderance of evidence" to say the least. It's "more likely than not" to attain a verdict of "guilty as charged" ruling/verdict.

Not to mention Brady was involved in the rule change so that home teams could prepare footballs to their liking.  He clearly has an interest in the composition of the football during games as did the 20 some QBs who signed the petition.  So it was odd to hear in his interview that he wasn't aware of Rule 2 or the minimum inflation levels until 8 years later.   That alone is enough to me that the two ball boys wouldn't have done anything to the footballs without Brady's knowledge.  At the very least, it's more believable that Tom knew what was going on than it is that the two ball boys did this of their own accord without anyone knowing about it.  To me, if they got yelled at for overinflating, they would have gotten yelled at for underinflating it below 12.5 unless that's how Tom wanted it.

[Gramz]

Not to mention Brady was involved in the rule change so that home teams could prepare footballs to their liking. He clearly has an interest in the composition of the football during games as did the 20 some QBs who signed the petition. So it was odd to hear in his interview that he wasn't aware of Rule 2 or the minimum inflation levels until 8 years later. That alone is enough to me that the two ball boys wouldn't have done anything to the footballs without Brady's knowledge. At the very least, it's more believable that Tom knew what was going on than it is that the two ball boys did this of their own accord without anyone knowing about it. To me, if they got yelled at for overinflating, they would have gotten yelled at for underinflating it below 12.5 unless that's how Tom wanted it.

Good points. Especially the last sentence.

I havn't read through everything on here, but I've read enough, and to me, right or wrong I still say I formed my opinion after watching Tom's press conference in January.

All that has come out since then only solidifies what I thought.

[crazycolt1]

Crazy that AM finally gave up and now Dynasty steps in and takes over battling the whole forum with even more faulty logic. 

AM just doesn't want to hear "I told you so". She is the one who said the fight was on and Kraft would have the NFL on their knees and Goodell would be run out. She will be back when this cools down.

[Gramz]

AM just doesn't want to hear "I told you so". She is the one who said the fight was on and Kraft would have the NFL on their knees and Goodell would be run out. She will be back when this cools down.

She's over at Patriot Planet right now having quite a conversation with a few others who used to frequent here about how horrible we all are. . Pot kettle anyone?

[dynasty13]

Not to mention Brady was involved in the rule change so that home teams could prepare footballs to their liking.  He clearly has an interest in the composition of the football during games as did the 20 some QBs who signed the petition.  So it was odd to hear in his interview that he wasn't aware of Rule 2 or the minimum inflation levels until 8 years later.   That alone is enough to me that the two ball boys wouldn't have done anything to the footballs without Brady's knowledge.  At the very least, it's more believable that Tom knew what was going on than it is that the two ball boys did this of their own accord without anyone knowing about it.  To me, if they got yelled at for overinflating, they would have gotten yelled at for underinflating it below 12.5 unless that's how Tom wanted it.

 

It's perfectly possible that Tom did not know that the balls were being deflated after the official check. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with Tom telling his equipment guys to under inflate the balls. The issue only arises if he knew they were doing it AFTER the officials had examined the balls....and that assumption is where there is a lack of proof.

 

If he didn't know that McNally was doing this after the official check, then he wasn't lying when he said this was the first he heard about it the day after the AFCCG. 

[18Manning]

I guess all the NE fans are right...everyone is out to get them.

 

[18Manning]

I guess all the NE fans are right...everyone is out to get them.

 

 

Forget that post. Looks like that's from back in January! Can't imagine the opinion has moved the other way though.

[Superman]

Mod note: Removed some posts about other posters and message boards. Please refrain. Thanks.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

As for the notion it was a "sting" keep this in mind.  You can't STING and HONEST, INNOCENT person.  If they weren't cheating, the balls, at worst, would have measured what the Colt's balls did at halftime. In addition, you wouldn't have so many circumstantial pieces of evidence that matched a PREDICTION/CONCERN given by the Colts.  How could all those unlikely "coincidences" one upon another, occur if they were honest.  If it quacks like a duck....

I agree with 99% of your post, except the "You can't STING and HONEST, INNOCENT person" line.  John DeLorean was a friend of mine and he was the victim of a sting based on mob-like threats against his family.  And he was approached first to do the transaction, he wasn't seeking to do it.  You can sting an honest person, but this wasn't a sting in any way shape or form.  

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

The Patriots and Bob Kraft are obviously taking the approach of "We're not guilty if we don't admit it".

At this point, the Patriots remind of those shirtless guys on the TV show COPS who are always yelling "I d'int do nuffin man" while fighting the police.

Good ol Dindu Nuffins

[dgambill]

Regarding your Spygate points.  Not sure when if ever has the league turned over documents or other evidence for the public to review for its consumption.  Can you think of any investigation in the 70 plus years of the league it handed over the file just so folks can look at the file?  This is not the US Government and the Right to Know, please.    The guy makes a finding that we violated a rule and you want to see the tapes.  Have you ever asked to look at the evidence for any other offense committed by any other team or player?  no, so why start now? 

 

Well I am not sure how anyone can impose a fine larger than the greatest fine do date (then) for Spygate.  its not like it was just a 50K fine or something, then I would agree with your point.  Heck as reference look at the Falcons this year, two years of pumping up crowd noise and they only get a 5th rounder.  Most folks would agree that crowd noise can a have an effect on the opponent. just ask any manning fan his/her opinion of the first plan of SB 48.  Right?    So if two years of crowd noise is only worth a 5th rounder, what is 7 years of taping signals worth? Right?.  Both first time offenders and both handled over the evidence.  So for me based on what the Falcons were dolled out this year, I think what happened to the pats in '07 plenty covers things.  And we both know that when manning runs his offense he wants the crowd to be quiet, but he does not ask his coaches to hide behind a curtain to give out signals.   

 

And yes we really do not know until that guy comes forward and speaks out.  Yes based on the numbers recorded by the refs at halftime things look like they went beyond temperature effects, but for me I am not so ready to buy that the pats did not tamper with the balls any more than if they provided underinflated balls to begin with knowing that would get through, both of which I have always felt was a violation of a NFL rule.

 

My issues on the matter, as I mentioned in a long post to Granz earlier, was the fact that regardless of how the pats had the balls underinflated (if not explained by temp and water) pre or post inspection, the balls were in the hands of the refs 50-70 times a game.  Its not like a bat, hockey stick, golf club or ball, to some extent a baseball, all of which are something that does not get in the hands of the ref where someone can say, hey you got away with using a sporting tool that was hidden from the refs.  What is troubling for me is that the refs, and the opponents too, get their hands on the balls the pats play with, so on that level the affected tool was out in the open and handled by the refs.  And we go from 7 years of no one saying anything to the highest fine in NFL history without at least a warning or complaint I find troubling.  And again I harken back to the Minn/Carolina game when the balls were out in the open and they just get a warning, and folks claim that it was out it in the open.  Well so were the pats balls out in the open, but yet no one seems to get this point.     

My only point was that we don't know what the league discussed as possible penalties for spygate. Maybe a 1 year post season ban? We just don't know. It was a serious penalty but it could have been worse considering that advantage gained from such a thing was much greater than say something like what we are seeing with this ball thing.

 

As for a warning...the Patriots should have taken the Spygate thing as a VERY serious warning....and ESPECIALLY after the ball boy several years back was seriously repromanded by the league for "accidentally" sneaking practice balls into a game. If that isn't warning enough not to "f" with the balls then what is? The other ones your talking about were first offenses...and can ALSO be considered a warning to the league that this offense with messing with the balls would result in a penalty. Sure theirs was much much less but they also cooperated with the league and didn't ACCUSE the league of a witch hunt etc. Combine the fact that they had been warned before with bring non-official balls into a game, add just a week earlier they sarcasticly told the other team "to know the rules", combine with the fact they covered it up by lying, then didn't provide witnesses or evidence requested....and finally tried to make the NFL the bad guy when they broke the rules...well I understand the heavy handed penalty. I think its a bit harsh...but it isn't my call to make. I would rather they come down hard on tampering, cheating, and lying and error on the side of detering others than too easy and encourage other teams to look for ways to cheat. I'm sorry it was you guys...I really am because I thought Tom played brilliantly and it was a nice way to top off his career but he and they brought it on themselves. I think people over-react but until there is an apology or explaination that is somewhat even close to believable...I'm not sticking my neck out to call off the dogs.

[Bad Morty]

Superman puts this as "succinctly" (ha ha) as possible. Here's what this whole thing boils down to, IMO. If I'm a judge, juror, advocate, et.al and evaluating evidence from an objective point of view, I cannot get past two incriminating pieces of jargon here ...

1. The "Deflator"

2. The plurality of texts between Brady, McNally, and Jastremski concerning one single game

How exactly does Brady explain this? And, this doesn't include any more evidentiary facts that may come to light down the court-beaten

path.

It's a "preponderance of evidence" to say the least. It's "more likely than not" to attain a verdict of "guilty as charged" ruling/verdict.

Neither one of those things is even close to as suspect as the fact that the science doesn't clearly support that any ball tampering happened at all.

 

1) The Pats claim they didn't tamper with the balls

2) Anderson remembers using the logo gauge to measure the balls

3) The balls measured on that gauge at halftime were within the range that the ideal gas law would predict given the conditions

 

That anybody would claim that a text from May of 2014 when a guy referred to himself as a suspicious sounding name is enough to outweigh this glaring set of facts pretty much tells you that this is all about "screw the evidence - we hate that these guys win so BURN THE WITCH!".

[ColtsBlueFL]

Why do people keep saying this can only happen in home games? Don't both teams bring their own balls?

 

Both teams bring their own game balls, but the home team appoints the ball handler for both teams, and is responsible for taking them to, and from the Ref's locker room.  McNally dropped off Andrew Lucks balls on our sideline too.  The Colts bag of balls went into the bathroom along with the Pats bag of balls into that infamous bathroom together. Fortunately, the are clearly marked which bag belongs to which team.  It is easier to try to do this before they are out in the open on the sideline.  The visiting has almost no chance to pull something like this off.  The home team, as witnessed, sometimes does.

[Yehoodi]

Players and teams are not treated equally because the infractions are not equal.

 

/thread

 

I see you missed the point of my post as did the three persons that liked your post.  The point of my post that one aspect of integrity is to treat folks/entities in the same matter.  If we can not do that than what do we have in the end.  The near entirety of my points in this thread are about treating teams the same.

 

So if team A is treated in a given manner then we treat team B in the same manner

So if folk A is treated in a given manner then we treat folk B in the same manner

 

I would have thought that point was obvious

 

And even across the two between players and teams there are several tenants that require us to treat that cross over the same.

[Yehoodi]

Gotcha. And, understood. As far as Goodell and his punishment of Brady and the Patriots are concerned, the word "integrity", isn't as elusive as you may seem to think. The ruling itself indicts upon that foundation after Brady was uncooperative with Wells, IMO.

 

I hear yah, it will be interesting to see what happens with the appeals and what value one will put on Brady's actions after the investigation stated.  I understand where you are coming from in your post.  Goodall (or whoever handles the appeal) will very likely separate out the punishment for Brady's participation in instant crime and his cooperation with the league during the investigation. 

[OffensivelyPC]

It's perfectly possible that Tom did not know that the balls were being deflated after the official check. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with Tom telling his equipment guys to under inflate the balls. The issue only arises if he knew they were doing it AFTER the officials had examined the balls....and that assumption is where there is a lack of proof.

 

If he didn't know that McNally was doing this after the official check, then he wasn't lying when he said this was the first he heard about it the day after the AFCCG. 

It's possible, but in light of the evidence, it's not likely.  And it's not an assumption when there's indirect evidence and testimony that leads to the conclusion that Brady worked with Jastremski and McNally about ball preparation and inflation levels so that footballs were prepared according to his liking.   It seems fairly clear that the ball boys wouldn't have done it in a manner unapproved by Brady.  If they had, they wouldn't have worked in the Patriots organization for as long as they did.  You may disagree with the implication of that evidence, but it's evidence nonetheless.  

 

What is an assumption is that the ball boys prepared it to his liking and then unilaterally deflated the footballs further without Brady's knowledge.  At no point in the Wells report were Jastremski and McNally discussing preparing the footballs except how Brady wanted it, save for the lone texts that both McNally and Jastremski said were jokes (i.e. the watermelon text).  There's really no reason to believe the Wells report flat out lied about McNally/Jastremski's interviews and texts, which even then, there was nothing in the Patriots rebuttal that suggested these guys went rogue.  That requires an assumption.  If these guys doing this on their own accord, it would at least have been an argument made by the Patriots after they fired them.  But they didn't.  Instead, tehy justified McNally and Jastremski's ball preparation and handling of them on game day.

[OffensivelyPC]

Neither one of those things is even close to as suspect as the fact that the science doesn't clearly support that any ball tampering happened at all.

 

1) The Pats claim they didn't tamper with the balls

2) Anderson remembers using the logo gauge to measure the balls

3) The balls measured on that gauge at halftime were within the range that the ideal gas law would predict given the conditions

 

That anybody would claim that a text from May of 2014 when a guy referred to himself as a suspicious sounding name is enough to outweigh this glaring set of facts pretty much tells you that this is all about "screw the evidence - we hate that these guys win so BURN THE WITCH!".

Again, this is all false and in complete contradiction to what's actually in the report.  

 

Is a flat out incorrect recitation of the report.  The report, and specifically, Exponent, made it abundantly clear that the ideal gas law cannot explain the drop in the Patriots footballs, regardless of what gauge was used.  Exponent, page X, paragraph 2.  It said the only way the ideal gas law could have been in the expected range was dependent on several factors, the combination of which is "unrealistic."  Exponent Page XIII, Paragraph 10.

[Bad Morty]

Again, this is all false and in complete contradiction to what's actually in the report.  

 

Is a flat out incorrect recitation of the report.  The report, and specifically, Exponent, made it abundantly clear that the ideal gas law cannot explain the drop in the Patriots footballs, regardless of what gauge was used.  Exponent, page X, paragraph 2.  It said the only way the ideal gas law could have been in the expected range was dependent on several factors, the combination of which is "unrealistic."  Exponent Page XIII, Paragraph 10.

this is the company that told us second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer. No matter WHAT gauge we are talking about, the amount below "expected" levels is pretty miniscule compared to the "2 pounds below per ball" nonsense that was released. So we're being asked to believe that an organized cheating scheme was put in motion to get balls a few tenths of a pound lower than nature would have dictated? Lol. Ok...sounds plausible. Eyeroll.

[Restored]

I see you missed the point of my post as did the three persons that liked your post.  The point of my post that one aspect of integrity is to treat folks/entities in the same matter.  If we can not do that than what do we have in the end.  The near entirety of my points in this thread are about treating teams the same.

 

So if team A is treated in a given manner then we treat team B in the same manner

So if folk A is treated in a given manner then we treat folk B in the same manner

 

I would have thought that point was obvious

 

And even across the two between players and teams there are several tenants that require us to treat that cross over the same.

 

How are they being treated any different? Because the punishment doesn't fit what YOU believe to be just? You have to understand that the NFL wanted to set a precedence to deter this kind of behavior from occurring again in its ranks. In addition, the NFL also wanted to let teams know that they will expect full cooperation when an investigation is occurring, something of which the Patriots did not do. It sounds like to me that you'd rather the Patriots receive preferential treatment than be treated equal. I'm telling you right now, if it was Packers who had been apart of Spygate and now Deflategate with Aaron Rodgers, the punishment would likely have been the same. Why would the NFL want it's winningest franchise of the 21st century to be caught up in not one, but two cheating scandals? It's nothing but bad PR for them. The NFL didn't target the Patriots nor treat them unfair. The Patriots brought this on themselves.

[dw49]

Mod note: Removed some posts about other posters and message boards. Please refrain. Thanks.

 

 

opps.....

[OffensivelyPC]

this is the company that told us second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer. No matter WHAT gauge we are talking about, the amount below "expected" levels is pretty miniscule compared to the "2 pounds below per ball" nonsense that was released. So we're being asked to believe that an organized cheating scheme was put in motion to get balls a few tenths of a pound lower than nature would have dictated? Lol. Ok...sounds plausible. Eyeroll.

Funny the guy arguing credibility concerns is citing a science company owned by Robert Kraft.  Please, save that for someone who will fall for your crap.  You want to argue the science, fine, we can argue the science.  But yoru eye rolling from behind a computer proves nothing.  

 

As to the bolded, you basically just admitted, despite your previous post, that the ideal gas law doesn't explain the pressure drop in the Patriots footballs.  So I mean, why they got that way is the question, and no one is asking you to believe anything.  But the evidence is pretty easy to conclude that the there was some "funny business" as one of your fellow Patriot fans put it.  If it's so unbelievable that there was an organized cheating scheme, then I'm not sure what to tell you.  The ball boy was caught on camera doing a lot of unbelievable things like taking a bag of footballs into the restroom.  Either he let air out of the footballs or Brady, Jastremski, and McNally are victims of a string of coincidences of just being at the wrong place at the wrong time and saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.  You have more faith than I could ever muster to believe the crap that has come from the Patriots camp.

[Bad Morty]

Funny the guy arguing credibility concerns is citing a science company owned by Robert Kraft.  Please, save that for someone who will fall for your crap.  You want to argue the science, fine, we can argue the science.  But yoru eye rolling from behind a computer proves nothing.  

 

As to the bolded, you basically just admitted, despite your previous post, that the ideal gas law doesn't explain the pressure drop in the Patriots footballs.  So I mean, why they got that way is the question, and no one is asking you to believe anything.  But the evidence is pretty easy to conclude that the there was some "funny business" as one of your fellow Patriot fans put it.  If it's so unbelievable that there was an organized cheating scheme, then I'm not sure what to tell you.  The ball boy was caught on camera doing a lot of unbelievable things like taking a bag of footballs into the restroom.  Either he let air out of the footballs or Brady, Jastremski, and McNally are victims of a string of coincidences of just being at the wrong place at the wrong time and saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.  You have more faith than I could ever muster to believe the crap that has come from the Patriots camp.

 

You are dismissing the science provided by a Nobel Prize winner with the incredibly disingenuous suggestion that Kraft "owns" the company he started. Believe me - the NFL "owns" more of Exponent given the fee they paid to get the result they wanted. The fact here is that the science is FAR FAR FAR from conclusive that any tampering happened whatsoever here. One company with a demonstrated track record for providing scientific results that fit the needs of those paying for it says they think the science is conclusive that there was tampering. That's a pretty weak starting point. We all were led to believe by the NFL that the Patriots footballs were deflated to 20% below the legal limit. Now the best anyone can say is that one science company believes the balls were marginally below what would be expected. That's good enough for the pitchfork and torches crowd.

[Mouthfire]

You are dismissing the science provided by a Nobel Prize winner with the incredibly disingenuous suggestion that Kraft "owns" the company he started. Believe me - the NFL "owns" more of Exponent given the fee they paid to get the result they wanted. The fact here is that the science is FAR FAR FAR from conclusive that any tampering happened whatsoever here. One company with a demonstrated track record for providing scientific results that fit the needs of those paying for it says they think the science is conclusive that there was tampering. That's a pretty weak starting point. We all were led to believe by the NFL that the Patriots footballs were deflated to 20% below the legal limit. Now the best anyone can say is that one science company believes the balls were marginally below what would be expected. That's good enough for the pitchfork and torches crowd.

Hmmmm... How is that disingenous? A scientist with documented ties to Kraft? On most planets, that sounds like a conflict of interest.

Actually, that's the very definition of conflict of interest....

*shrug*

[dw49]

You are dismissing the science provided by a Nobel Prize winner with the incredibly disingenuous suggestion that Kraft "owns" the company he started. Believe me - the NFL "owns" more of Exponent given the fee they paid to get the result they wanted. The fact here is that the science is FAR FAR FAR from conclusive that any tampering happened whatsoever here. One company with a demonstrated track record for providing scientific results that fit the needs of those paying for it says they think the science is conclusive that there was tampering. That's a pretty weak starting point. We all were led to believe by the NFL that the Patriots footballs were deflated to 20% below the legal limit. Now the best anyone can say is that one science company believes the balls were marginally below what would be expected. That's good enough for the pitchfork and torches crowd.

 

 

Tell me again why Goodall , the NFL ... wants to frame the Pats and Brady. How does it benefit their product ?

[OffensivelyPC]

You are dismissing the science provided by a Nobel Prize winner with the incredibly disingenuous suggestion that Kraft "owns" the company he started. Believe me - the NFL "owns" more of Exponent given the fee they paid to get the result they wanted. The fact here is that the science is FAR FAR FAR from conclusive that any tampering happened whatsoever here. One company with a demonstrated track record for providing scientific results that fit the needs of those paying for it says they think the science is conclusive that there was tampering. That's a pretty weak starting point. We all were led to believe by the NFL that the Patriots footballs were deflated to 20% below the legal limit. Now the best anyone can say is that one science company believes the balls were marginally below what would be expected. That's good enough for the pitchfork and torches crowd.

I'm going to invoke the Bad Morty defense. He's bias and can't be trusted.

Wow..that was so easy. Your move...

[dw49]

I'm going to invoke the Bad Morty defense. He's bias and can't be trusted.

Wow..that was so easy. Your move...

 

 

That's what I need to find out and maybe I'll agree with them. Why did the NFL want to frame one of it's star players that is arguably someone kids can look up to ? Why the bias and venom to pay millions to get an independent investigator that Kraft never objected to frame them ?

[dgambill]

I don't see what more can be discussed about this ordeal until Brady's appeal. If something new comes up from that or some new evidence is released maybe I will return to this thread but nothing else can be accomplished here. No one is changing their mind and the same arguements on each side is just being repeated to no avail. I'll check back when something relevent comes out! Peace!!

[Bad Morty]

Tell me again why Goodall , the NFL ... wants to frame the Pats and Brady. How does it benefit their product ?

I think it's simple...the rest of the league has been criticizing Goodell since day 1 for being "Kraft's puppet" and for the unfounded notion that the Patriots are allowed to get away with things other teams get punished for (with no actual proof of this). Goodell has been looking for an opportunity to "prove" that he's not owned by Kraft and the Patriots...hence, an unsubstantiated claim that balls were tampered with to produce a miniscule amount of deflation becomes cause to hand out the harshest penalty in league history to this owner, even though the very report the league paid for made it clear that Kraft and Belichick were completely innocent.

[jvan1973]

I think it's simple...the rest of the league has been criticizing Goodell since day 1 for being "Kraft's puppet" and for the unfounded notion that the Patriots are allowed to get away with things other teams get punished for (with no actual proof of this). Goodell has been looking for an opportunity to "prove" that he's not owned by Kraft and the Patriots...hence, an unsubstantiated claim that balls were tampered with to produce a miniscule amount of deflation becomes cause to hand out the harshest penalty in league history to this owner, even though the very report the league paid for made it clear that Kraft and Belichick were completely innocent.

[AndreRison]

It's perfectly possible that Tom did not know that the balls were being deflated after the official check. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with Tom telling his equipment guys to under inflate the balls. The issue only arises if he knew they were doing it AFTER the officials had examined the balls....and that assumption is where there is a lack of proof.

If he didn't know that McNally was doing this after the official check, then he wasn't lying when he said this was the first he heard about it the day after the AFCCG.

The fact that McNally said, I'm not going to ESPN....yet. contradicts this line of reasoning.

[OffensivelyPC]

That's what I need to find out and maybe I'll agree with them. Why did the NFL want to frame one of it's star players that is arguably someone kids can look up to ? Why the bias and venom to pay millions to get an independent investigator that Kraft never objected to frame them ?

it's an easy deflection that requires more proof to disprove said bias than it does proof to substantiate bias actually exist. What's hilarious is that guys like Morty use bias as a defense and then a sword. It's impossible to take seriously and the fact he thinks people would makes him a clown.