Offensive line problems (Merge)

[Smonroe]

Since we always get off to such terrible starts, I wanted to see what happened on the Colts first offensive play against Dallas, when Boom Heron was tackled 7 yards in the backfield. 

CBS did not show a replay of this play because they cut away to show a graphic the of Colts starting lineup.

 

Here's how the play unfolds...

The team lines up with Heron at HB and Allen at FB. The run is designed to go to the right.

Khaled Holmes is at center, Lewis at RG, Nixon at RT and TE Fleener is on the end on of the right side of the line.

Allen motions to the right, and the ball is snapped...

 

At first glance It looks as though Holmes whiffs, misses his block, allowing the Dallas DT to split the gap, stuffing Heron for a big loss.

However, after playing the tape back several times, it seems as though it is more a case of blown blocking assignments, than poor play.

 

What actually happens is...

When the ball is snapped,  Fleener, Nixon and Lewis all pull to the right and block the same guy, (so we have three of our linemen all blocking one Dallas player).

 

Now, with three Colts OLmen all blocking the same Dallas DE, Khaled Holmes tries to get over to block the defensive tackle, but because the Dallas defender has a better angle than Holmes, he is able to get by Holmes' block and bust the whole play up.

 

Dallas went with just a basic defensive formation. The Colts scheme on this play is flawed. Just a poorly designed running play,

Perhaps the blocking schemes are as much to blame as the players are?

 

I don't think there's any "perhaps" needed in that sentence.

 

Nice description, I was wondering how that play went wrong so fast.

 

This is a question to you and anyone who knows anything about O Lines:  Do you think the talent on the Colts line is any worse than the talent on Seattle's O line?  Or Green Bay's for that matter?  Personally, I don't.  I think those two teams are much better coached.

[Cynjin]

Since we always get off to such terrible starts, I wanted to see what happened on the Colts first offensive play against Dallas, when Boom Heron was tackled 7 yards in the backfield. 

CBS did not show a replay of this play because they cut away to show a graphic the of Colts starting lineup.

 

Here's how the play unfolds...

The team lines up with Heron at HB and Allen at FB. The run is designed to go to the right.

Khaled Holmes is at center, Lewis at RG, Nixon at RT and TE Fleener is on the end on of the right side of the line.

Allen motions to the right, and the ball is snapped...

 

At first glance It looks as though Holmes whiffs, misses his block, allowing the Dallas DT to split the gap, stuffing Heron for a big loss.

However, after playing the tape back several times, it seems as though it is more a case of blown blocking assignments, than poor play.

 

What actually happens is...

When the ball is snapped,  Fleener, Nixon and Lewis all pull to the right and block the same guy, (so we have three of our linemen all blocking one Dallas player).

 

Now, with three Colts OLmen all blocking the same Dallas DE, Khaled Holmes tries to get over to block the defensive tackle, but because the Dallas defender has a better angle than Holmes, he is able to get by Holmes' block and bust the whole play up.

 

Dallas went with just a basic defensive formation. The Colts scheme on this play is flawed. Just a poorly designed running play,

Perhaps the blocking schemes are as much to blame as the players are?

 

 

Glad you went back and looked at that play.  That is basically what I thought, Holmes was not going to be able to get over to block the Dallas Dlineman.

[krunk]

Since we always get off to such terrible starts, I wanted to see what happened on the Colts first offensive play against Dallas, when Boom Heron was tackled 7 yards in the backfield. 

CBS did not show a replay of this play because they cut away to show a graphic the of Colts starting lineup.

 

Here's how the play unfolds...

The team lines up with Heron at HB and Allen at FB. The run is designed to go to the right.

Khaled Holmes is at center, Lewis at RG, Nixon at RT and TE Fleener is on the end on of the right side of the line.

Allen motions to the right, and the ball is snapped...

 

At first glance It looks as though Holmes whiffs, misses his block, allowing the Dallas DT to split the gap, stuffing Heron for a big loss.

However, after playing the tape back several times, it seems as though it is more a case of blown blocking assignments, than poor play.

 

What actually happens is...

When the ball is snapped,  Fleener, Nixon and Lewis all pull to the right and block the same guy, (so we have three of our linemen all blocking one Dallas player).

 

Now, with three Colts OLmen all blocking the same Dallas DE, Khaled Holmes tries to get over to block the defensive tackle, but because the Dallas defender has a better angle than Holmes, he is able to get by Holmes' block and bust the whole play up.

 

Dallas went with just a basic defensive formation. The Colts scheme on this play is flawed. Just a poorly designed running play,

Perhaps the blocking schemes are as much to blame as the players are?

 

 

 

Good post, but I would assume that Pep did not design the play to have 3 people blocking one man.  The blown blocking assignments make it appear as if the blocking scheme is bad.  I'm sure it would look different if executed properly.  Herron has run that same play before with good gains.

[ColtStronger]

Why does the moronic coaching staff refuse to put Holmes in until people get hurt? Is Shipley still hurt? Why isn't he playing out there? Why do the coaches hate Holmes and Shipley? They play great, and our coaches are NOT putting the best players on the field. This is madness. 

 

 

And Xavier Nixon at Tackle........LOL 

 

 

 

And when asked, I don't want to hear "because he's our starter" from Pagano when asked why this guy or this guy is starting. This is becoming a trend, and it's not a good one. 

This method will keep ANY defender away...  As long as they're not aggressive lol

[RockThatBlue]

Maybe the O-line will be better when we are over the rebuild mode. It takes time to find the right players. End of year three on a five year plan. Sad part is the Colts have over achieved these past three seasons so it gave too many the mindset that we were that good.

I agree that it can take time to find the right players. But you can't disagree that a good coach ( our o line coach) could have made it work by now. Three years should be long enough to create a good o line. I feel like our o line coach has simply failed. That's just my opinion though

[ColtStronger]

You guys can continue to keep pointing fingers at the offensive line all you want.  I will keep blaming Trent lol... So this week it IS the lines fault?  Most other weeks it's Trent?  Can we all just agree that Trent isn't going to be that good if our line is bad?  Big Bad Boom didn't do too much either.  Awe man he sucks too lol... Let's not dig too deep from the underlying problem here!  Who am I kidding?  A lot of fans on here would lose their head if it wasn't attached, so I highly doubt they can comprehend a rather easy concept like terrible blocking= no run lanes

[lollygagger8]

Another thing I don't understand, is how our O-Line so bad and Grigson was an O-Lineman himself. You would think he would know what makes a good O-line and make sure it's tip top.  

[peytonmanning18]

Our o-line is bad, someone lock this thread

[OLD FAN MAN]

after a full season of developing and getting worse I hope we don't go with the same poor talent level next year. time to say the o-line has below average talent and upgrade however we can

[crazycolt1]

Another thing I don't understand, is how our O-Line so bad and Grigson was an O-Lineman himself. You would think he would know what makes a good O-line and make sure it's tip top.  

It's not from lack of trying. Good linemen are very hard to find. It takes most rookie a couple of years just to get use to the speed and strength of pro players. Example- Dallas I think has 3 first round picks on the o-line. Hopefully this next draft will be successful.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Lucks been hit 70 times this year, Andy freaking Dalton.. only 20. Peyton 21, big Ben 24. That is just crazy.

[Smonroe]

Lucks been hit 70 times this year, Andy freaking Dalton.. only 20. Peyton 21, big Ben 24. That is just crazy.

I'm not sure what defines a "Hit".

Luck has been sacked 26 times. Ben 33. Russell Wison 39.

A lot of times sack and hit numbers reflect as much on the QB as the O line. Not saying ours is good, but Luck does hold on to the ball a lot longer than Peyton. That will improve with experience.

[BOTT]

I don't think there's any "perhaps" needed in that sentence.

 

Nice description, I was wondering how that play went wrong so fast.

 

This is a question to you and anyone who knows anything about O Lines:  Do you think the talent on the Colts line is any worse than the talent on Seattle's O line?  Or Green Bay's for that matter?  Personally, I don't.  I think those two teams are much better coached.

Seattle has 3 above average linemen in Okung, Unger, and Carpenter....their problem is staying healthy.

[BOTT]

Since we always get off to such terrible starts, I wanted to see what happened on the Colts first offensive play against Dallas, when Boom Heron was tackled 7 yards in the backfield. 

CBS did not show a replay of this play because they cut away to show a graphic the of Colts starting lineup.

 

Here's how the play unfolds...

The team lines up with Heron at HB and Allen at FB. The run is designed to go to the right.

Khaled Holmes is at center, Lewis at RG, Nixon at RT and TE Fleener is on the end on of the right side of the line.

Allen motions to the right, and the ball is snapped...

 

At first glance It looks as though Holmes whiffs, misses his block, allowing the Dallas DT to split the gap, stuffing Heron for a big loss.

However, after playing the tape back several times, it seems as though it is more a case of blown blocking assignments, than poor play.

 

What actually happens is...

When the ball is snapped,  Fleener, Nixon and Lewis all pull to the right and block the same guy, (so we have three of our linemen all blocking one Dallas player).

 

Now, with three Colts OLmen all blocking the same Dallas DE, Khaled Holmes tries to get over to block the defensive tackle, but because the Dallas defender has a better angle than Holmes, he is able to get by Holmes' block and bust the whole play up.

 

Dallas went with just a basic defensive formation. The Colts scheme on this play is flawed. Just a poorly designed running play,

Perhaps the blocking schemes are as much to blame as the players are?

Joe Staysniak actually talked about that played Monday after the game on 1070 the fan. He said it was simply inexperience on the interior of the line.....a experienced center, or guard even, would have taken control and shifted the line. With the way Dallas lined up there was no way Holmes could have made that block.

[Smonroe]

Seattle has 3 above average linemen in Okung, Unger, and Carpenter....their problem is staying healthy.

That could explain why Russell is sacked and on the move so much. More than Luck.

Can you imagine non mobile QBs behind either lines?

[Dark Superman]

Joe Gilbert needs to be terminated.

[1959Colts]

Joe Staysniak actually talked about that played Monday after the game on 1070 the fan. He said it was simply inexperience on the interior of the line.....a experienced center, or guard even, would have taken control and shifted the line. With the way Dallas lined up there was no way Holmes could have made that block.

 

I don't think they even needed to shift.

It looked to me like Lewis should have just blocked the guy.

[Track Guy]

From this article: ftp://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/12/25/colts-offensive-struggles-start-with-luck/20894131/

 

"Luck's been hit 70 times this year. A scroll through a few AFC playoff contenders reveals just how stark the discrepancy is: Cincinnati's Andy Dalton has been hit just 20 times, Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger 21 and Denver's Peyton Manning 24."

 

Seeing stats like this really makes me feel bad about this team. Luck was the most hit QB in the NFL his first 2 seasons and even this year he's been hit more times than Dalton, Roethlisberger, and Manning combined. Our O-line really needs to be better, it's bad enough we're leading the NFL in dropped passes by 12. 

[maxgamestate]

Joe Gilbert needs to be terminated.

 

Bingo...!!!

[YOUR GM]

They need to ditch the man blocking scheme until they get linemen who can consistently win one-on-one's. It's a dated approach to the run game that puts your linemen at an automatic disadvantage due to the gap in athletic ability between D linemen and O linemen. Defenses keep getting more and more athletic as well as sophisticated. Unless you have 2-3 elite level offensive linemen, it's foolish to expect to win head-to-heads against athletically superior competition consistently.

Most of the successful running teams use some form of zone blocking. I think that it is the smarter brand of blocking technique, personally. It has built-in help, and allows for more cutback lanes/opportunities to break for long gains regardless of whether or not everyone executes their assignments correctly

[James]

What does our o-line going to look like in the playoffs?

[Smonroe]

Was Mewhort out fot a lot of snaps today? I know he came in late after Ship and Thornton were hurt.

We better draft inside. As in inside Olinemen and inside LBs. Our core is weak on both sides of the ball.

[dw49]

Was Mewhort out fot a lot of snaps today? I know he came in late after Ship and Thornton were hurt.

We better draft inside. As in inside Olinemen and inside LBs. Our core is weak on both sides of the ball.

 

 

Didn't Mewhort play RT ?

[Cynjin]

Was Mewhort out fot a lot of snaps today? I know he came in late after Ship and Thornton were hurt.

We better draft inside. As in inside Olinemen and inside LBs. Our core is weak on both sides of the ball.

I believe he started at RT.

[DougDew]

Mewhort started and played the entire game at RT.  He missed a blitzing safety, and got overpowered on another play causing a Luck sack and fumble, but that was early in the game.  After that, I thought he played well for the remaining three quarters.

[Smonroe]

Mewhort started and played the entire game at RT.  He missed a blitzing safety, and got overpowered on another play causing a Luck sack and fumble, but that was early in the game.  After that, I thought he played well for the remaining three quarters.

 

Yeah, I finally figured that out.  Thanks!

[GwinnettColt]

It certainly doesn't help with the coaching staff playing musical chairs with the linemen we do have as well as benching Shipley who was playing well at the start of the year for a completely unproven rookie. Impossible for any type of chemistry to develop.

Very well put.  The line gets no chance to gel.  Shipley should have been the center at least for this year.  Thornton, Holmes, and Reitz had to be rotated in due to injury.

 

Another frustrating factor is Donald Thomas.  I remember how excited I was when Trent was moving the ball behind Holmes, Thornton, and Thomas only to have HOlmes injured on the second (or maybe later in the first) drive and later came Thomas' injury.