Pagano's future?

[azcolt]

I hope we don't waste the career of the next great NFL quarterback on a mediocre coach.If we played in a tougher division, I think Pagano would have been fired by now.

[GoColts8818]

Say what you will about his first sesson but his second year they took a very clear step forward by winning thecdivisn and a playoff game. They also best some good teams to do it including the 49ers on the road, both Super Bowl teams, and KC twice. This year they secure their third straight playoff trip and again best two possible playoff teams along the way in the Ravens and Bengals. He has won two third of his games as coach and this team turned around long before they were supposed to be. His job is not in jeapordy.

As for is he a great coach. I don't think so but if you look around the NFL how many gret coaches are there. Look at the other division leaders, Fox in Denver is kinda enh. People here wonder why the Bengsls haven't fired Lewis yet. BB I will grant you but I think he's the exception to the rule. In the NFC you have Caldwell who the Colts fired and the fans here hated. Mike Smith who people think should lose his job at the end of the year. Kelly who needs more time to see if he's truly great and Arains who was so good he was out of the NFL until Pagano brought him back.

There are some good coaches but truly elite coaches are hard to find. You can easily tear down the whole thing if you make the wrong move at coach. Remember when the Chargers were 14-2 and poised to be the next dynasty and they fired Marty because he had taken them as far as he could take them and the best they could do after him was Norv Turner? If you have a coach who is winning sometimes it's best to let him coach because there is no promise the next guy will be as good or even better than what you have now.

[jskinnz]

I hope we don't waste the career of the next great NFL quarterback on a mediocre coach.If we played in a tougher division, I think Pagano would have been fired by now.

Another post completely void of deep thought.

[Moopsiepuffs]

Pagano is a middle-of-the-pack coach, but I don't think you can say he would have been fired if the Colts played in a tougher division. Indy have beaten some very good teams during his time with the organisation. 

[Moopsiepuffs]

Another post completely void of deep thought.

 

 

Oh the irony...

[tfunky14]

Leave Chucky alone....

[Cynjin]

I hope we don't waste the career of the next great NFL quarterback on a mediocre coach.If we played in a tougher division, I think Pagano would have been fired by now.

 

I hope we don't waste the internet bandwidth with a mediocre post.  Actually that is too generous, the above is actually much worse than a mediocre post.

[crazycolt1]

So how many other mediocre coaches have made the playoffs in their first three years? Just out of curiosity how many head coaches have started their careers out 32-9 with a totally rebuilt team? Get real.

[CR91]

if its not trent its landry, if its not landry its werner, if its not werner its chuck. such spoiled brats for fans. go be raider bills or brown fans who havent made the playoffs in over a decade

[JColts72]

^{One of the years record was when Bruce was covering.}

[Gavin]

Except...we play in a crap division and Pagano has gotten better. Do I agree with everything he says or does? Absolutely not but as long as the Colts keep pumping out 11-5 or 10-6 seasons and divisional titles then he will be here until he don't want to any more...Until such time I will just enjoy the division titles continue to rack up (until a team in our division gets a starting QB to compete with us)

[Yoshinator]

So how many other mediocre coaches have made the playoffs in their first three years? Just out of curiosity how many head coaches have started their careers out 32-9 with a totally rebuilt team? Get real.

I'm sorry, but Pagano coached 4 games in his first year (not his fault but Arians won those games). Also, Luck is a once in a generation talent. He was the difference between winning and losing just like Manning was. Next, Grigson's draft had a lot to with it in 2012 with his great draft. Finally, Pagano has made things worse more than better with his "loyalty" to certain players. First, guys like Satele that got Luck killed. He also hates to start rookies for some reason thinking they need to "pay their dues" for some reason even if they are better or equal to the current starters. On Pagano's best day he is middle of the pack. He makes things much more difficult for Luck than they should be and handicaps the team on game day.

[BlueCollarColts]

32-14

[CanuckColt]

I still wish we would have kept Arians but I suppose it was not possible considering the circumstances....sigh!

[Yoshinator]

32-14

Yep, and Pagano makes it look very difficult. 

[Yoshinator]

I still wish we would have kept Arians but I suppose it was not possible considering the circumstances....sigh!

Yep, Bruce Arians is an excellent coach. Just imagine what he could of done for this team this year. If he can do what he did with Arizona and no qb, we'd be Super Bowl Contenders this year with Arians under the helm.

[Superman]

Good heavens...

I suggest you guys make your peace with Chuck Pagano. He isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.

[GoColts8818]

Yep, and Pagano makes it look very difficult.

i hate to tell you this but winning in the NFL is difficult.

[GoColts8818]

Yep, and Pagano makes it look very difficult.

i quoted the wrong post here. Mods you can delete this one.

[Yoshinator]

i hate to tell you this but winning in the NFL is difficult.

Completely agree, but when Pagano uses backup quality players for the mere fact that the majority of them are veterans and he's loyal to them, it makes things even harder for the rest of the team and Luck.

 

EDIT: Ah, nevermind.

[GoColts8818]

I still wish we would have kept Arians but I suppose it was not possible considering the circumstances....sigh!

no it want, had we fired Pagano for Arians I doubt Arians takes the job and he want going to turn down a head coaching job to stay as the OC.

[GoColts8818]

Completely agree, but when Pagano uses backup quality players for the mere fact that the majority of them are veterans and he's loyal to them, it makes things even harder for the rest of the team and Luck.

 

EDIT: Ah, nevermind.

lucks turnovers make it pretty hard on Luck and that has nothing to do with Pagano.

Just because fans don't like a starter doesnt automatically make his backup better.

[HtownColt]

Pagano definitely improved more this year with his aggressive decisions this year and not his normal conservative calls.

Giving Mcafee the green light to kick onside kicks, going for it on fourth down in the first quarter. Letting that run the ball stop the run strategy go out the window and let the offense loose early in games and not just when they get down

[Yoshinator]

lucks turnovers make it pretty hard on Luck and that has nothing to do with Pagano.

Just because fans don't like a starter doesnt automatically make his backup better.

I suggest you rewatch the tape with Shipley and Holmes in, instant improvement on the O-Line. There's a reason Luck has turnovers and it's because of the useless bodies on the right side of the O-Line. Part of it may be Luck, but Harrison and Thornton/Louis wouldn't start on most teams. I like Reitz, but he's hurt right now unfortunately. Also remember, just because a coach likes a starter doesn't mean his backup isn't better. We all know Pagano's "loyalty" issues. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you. I have a hard time trusting Pagano on any decision anymore when he starts players that obviously should be sitting.

[Yoshinator]

Pagano definitely improved more this year with his aggressive decisions this year and not his normal conservative calls.

Giving Mcafee the green light to kick onside kicks, going for it on fourth down in the first quarter. Letting that run the ball stop the run strategy go out the window and let the offense loose early in games and not just when they get down

I'll agree with this, but another way of saying this is that Pagano caught up with the rest of the league finally. He needs some help in the coaching department on deciding who to start every week. He needs to reward good performances from the younger players with extended playing time. It seems that happened a bit this game, but I don't know if that was by concidence or on purpose. He needs to figure out a game plan as a coach, and use it consistently. The players have his back, now he needs to reward their loyalty by being a professional coach instead of their best friend. Start who has the best chance of winning us the game. If that turns out to be the older veterans and our rookies struggle, I will understand. That doesn't seem to be the case though.

[crazycolt1]

I'm sorry, but Pagano coached 4 games in his first year (not his fault but Arians won those games). Also, Luck is a once in a generation talent. He was the difference between winning and losing just like Manning was. Next, Grigson's draft had a lot to with it in 2012 with his great draft. Finally, Pagano has made things worse more than better with his "loyalty" to certain players. First, guys like Satele that got Luck killed. He also hates to start rookies for some reason thinking they need to "pay their dues" for some reason even if they are better or equal to the current starters. On Pagano's best day he is middle of the pack. He makes things much more difficult for Luck than they should be and handicaps the team on game day.

You still didn't really answer my question. Because you don't care for him don't make him a bad coach. Football is a team sport. That's from the top to the bottom. The Colts are in the middle of a total rebuild so I guess Pagano has done a good job under less than stellar circumstances. You are entitled to your opinion but it is not shared by those who count. Pagano is far not the only coach who don't like starting rookies as far as that is concerned. Tell me another middle of the pack head coach that has accumulated the record of Pagano? There are 52 other players on the active roster, not just Luck.

[Gavin]

I'll agree with this, but another way of saying this is that Pagano caught up with the rest of the league finally. He needs some help in the coaching department on deciding who to start every week. He needs to reward good performances from the younger players with extended playing time. It seems that happened a bit this game, but I don't know if that was by concidence or on purpose. He needs to figure out a game plan as a coach, and use it consistently. The players have his back, now he needs to reward their loyalty by being a professional coach instead of their best friend. Start who has the best chance of winning us the game. If that turns out to be the older veterans and our rookies struggle, I will understand. That doesn't seem to be the case though.

"He needs some help in the coaching department on deciding who to start every week."

 

What do you think position coaches are for? 

 

"He needs to figure out a game plan as a coach, and use it consistently."

 

Game plans change weekly, That goes for all coaches, you try to exploit a teams weakness, they try to exploit yours.

 

 

"Start who has the best chance of winning us the game."

 

Maybe Pagano is getting his advice from the position coaches on who to start and following that?

[crazycolt1]

^{One of the years record was when Bruce was covering.}

So you honestly think Arians didn't talk to and take advice from Pagano during that time? Your nit picking.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Pagano does some very questionable things particularly with personnel but I have to step back and tell my self he's only in his 2nd yr on the job...

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I hope we don't waste the career of the next great NFL quarterback on a mediocre coach.If we played in a tougher division, I think Pagano would have been fired by now.

 

He took over a team that was in complete shambles (2-14).  In 3 years, the only players that are still around from prior to him starting are Wayne, Vinatieri, McAffee and Reitz (and Mathis).  Our schemes on offense, defense and special teams have completely changed since before he got here.  We have the top ranked offense in the NFL, our defense is finally (after watching it stink for all but 1 year of Manning's tenure) respectable again and we have one of the best special teams units in the league.  You have got to be kidding me -- going from 2-14 and the laughing stock of the league to three straight division championships, a playoff win and an upcoming playoff trip is incredible -- especially considering that our entire team has basically changed and we are still in the building process.  We've had to fill in some spots with mediocre/average/slightly above average players and Pagano is making it work.  We beat everyone of the top 3 teams in the league in the regular season last year, and this year we should have beaten Philly, had a legit shot vs. Denver and just played poorly against Pitt and NE.  The most dominant performance of any team all season may have been when we beat the division leading Bengals, we also beat the playoff caliber Ravens.

 

I really appreciate what Redding, RJF, Toler, and some of the other veterans that we've brought on to play significant roles for us -- but not for nothing, none of those guys are elite players -- they were brought in because we had to change our entire defensive scheme and we simply didn't have the personnel in place to operate when Pagano/Grigs came to town.

 

I'm sorry, but Pagano coached 4 games in his first year (not his fault but Arians won those games). Also, Luck is a once in a generation talent. He was the difference between winning and losing just like Manning was. Next, Grigson's draft had a lot to with it in 2012 with his great draft. Finally, Pagano has made things worse more than better with his "loyalty" to certain players. First, guys like Satele that got Luck killed. He also hates to start rookies for some reason thinking they need to "pay their dues" for some reason even if they are better or equal to the current starters. On Pagano's best day he is middle of the pack. He makes things much more difficult for Luck than they should be and handicaps the team on game day.

 

 

Completely agree, but when Pagano uses backup quality players for the mere fact that the majority of them are veterans and he's loyal to them, it makes things even harder for the rest of the team and Luck.

 

EDIT: Ah, nevermind.

 

In the first year, Luck, TY, Allen, Fleener, Ballard and some I am probably forgetting all started as rookies.  This year both Harrison and Mewhort are starting as rookies (Harrison is an undrafted rookie).  Moncrief is starting to get plenty of playing time and Kerr and Newsome have seen plenty of snaps on defense.  Your points are invalid -- Pagano has started and continued to start plenty of young guys.

[Yoshinator]

You still didn't really answer my question. Because you don't care for him don't make him a bad coach. Football is a team sport. That's from the top to the bottom. The Colts are in the middle of a total rebuild so I guess Pagano has done a good job under less than stellar circumstances. You are entitled to your opinion but it is not shared by those who count. Pagano is far not the only coach who don't like starting rookies as far as that is concerned. Tell me another middle of the pack head coach that has accumulated the record of Pagano? There are 52 other players on the active roster, not just Luck.

I don't think you understand how much Pagano is hurting this team. He puts in the worst possible players because he sees potential that isn't there, he is loyal to them, or he doesn't want to be wrong about them and he is stubborn. I love that classic quote btw, how my opinion isn't shared by those who count. Doesn't mean I'm not right and they aren't wrong. You said yourself we are in the middle of a total rebuild, so why wouldn't we start our rookies (especially high round ones and especially when they show promise) when we need to put together a team for our future? Makes no sense. Also, most coaches in the NFL could have Pagano's record in those 46 games. Luck does the work and Pagano is the beneficiary. If he had Tannehill or someone mediocre, he'd have a losing record. No coach has had Andrew Luck within 3 years, but guys like Marvin Lewis, John Fox, Bill Belicheck, Pete Carroll, Jim Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy all have solid records as well. Notice the theme? They all have good qbs. That's the ticket these days.  These coaches (except Lewis) can get their team far in the playoffs.

[Yoshinator]

He took over a team that was in complete shambles (2-14).  In 3 years, the only players that are still around from prior to him starting are Wayne, Vinatieri, McAffee and Reitz (and Mathis).  Our schemes on offense, defense and special teams have completely changed since before he got here.  We have the top ranked offense in the NFL, our defense is finally (after watching it stink for all but 1 year of Manning's tenure) respectable again and we have one of the best special teams units in the league.  You have got to be kidding me -- going from 2-14 and the laughing stock of the league to three straight division championships, a playoff win and an upcoming playoff trip is incredible -- especially considering that our entire team has basically changed and we are still in the building process.  We've had to fill in some spots with mediocre/average/slightly above average players and Pagano is making it work.  We beat everyone of the top 3 teams in the league in the regular season last year, and this year we should have beaten Philly, had a legit shot vs. Denver and just played poorly against Pitt and NE.  The most dominant performance of any team all season may have been when we beat the division leading Bengals, we also beat the playoff caliber Ravens.

 

I really appreciate what Redding, RJF, Toler, and some of the other veterans that we've brought on to play significant roles for us -- but not for nothing, none of those guys are elite players -- they were brought in because we had to change our entire defensive scheme and we simply didn't have the personnel in place to operate when Pagano/Grigs came to town.

 

 

 

 

In the first year, Luck, TY, Allen, Fleener, Ballard and some I am probably forgetting all started as rookies.  This year both Harrison and Mewhort are starting as rookies (Harrison is an undrafted rookie).  Moncrief is starting to get plenty of playing time and Kerr and Newsome have seen plenty of snaps on defense.  Your points are invalid -- Pagano has started and continued to start plenty of young guys.

TY didn't start until about halfway through his rookie year, Ballard was behind Donald Brown i believe. Mewhort was supposed to be a backup to Donald Thomas until he got injured for the year. I'll give you Harrison. Moncrief took 3 months before the coaching staff got their head out of their rear and decided to start him. Kerr and Newsome are still getting limited playing time, which is crap. All of these guys except Harrison have been victims of Pagano's favoritism game toward the Veterans.

[Yoshinator]

"He needs some help in the coaching department on deciding who to start every week."

 

What do you think position coaches are for? 

 

"He needs to figure out a game plan as a coach, and use it consistently."

 

Game plans change weekly, That goes for all coaches, you try to exploit a teams weakness, they try to exploit yours.

 

 

"Start who has the best chance of winning us the game."

 

Maybe Pagano is getting his advice from the position coaches on who to start and following that?

What I meant by the bolded is that you need to start players consistently. I apologize for the mix up. He starts guys like Newsome and Moncrief one game and gives them a large majority of the snaps, then the next game they are nonexistent. He always has doubts on who he likes and goes back to his stubbornness and old way of thinking.

[throwing BBZ]

Say what you will about his first sesson but his second year they took a very clear step forward by winning thecdivisn and a playoff game. They also best some good teams to do it including the 49ers on the road, both Super Bowl teams, and KC twice. This year they secure their third straight playoff trip and again best two possible playoff teams along the way in the Ravens and Bengals. He has won two third of his games as coach and this team turned around long before they were supposed to be. His job is not in jeapordy.

As for is he a great coach. I don't think so but if you look around the NFL how many gret coaches are there. Look at the other division leaders, Fox in Denver is kinda enh. People here wonder why the Bengsls haven't fired Lewis yet. BB I will grant you but I think he's the exception to the rule. In the NFC you have Caldwell who the Colts fired and the fans here hated. Mike Smith who people think should lose his job at the end of the year. Kelly who needs more time to see if he's truly great and Arains who was so good he was out of the NFL until Pagano brought him back.

There are some good coaches but truly elite coaches are hard to find. You can easily tear down the whole thing if you make the wrong move at coach. Remember when the Chargers were 14-2 and poised to be the next dynasty and they fired Marty because he had taken them as far as he could take them and the best they could do after him was Norv Turner? If you have a coach who is winning sometimes it's best to let him coach because there is no promise the next guy will be as good or even better than what you have now.

 

 SF wasn`t a GOOD or Healthy team the week we beat them and they played very poorly for several weeks after we beat them. BAD!

 KC had us crushed then had 2 terrible losses on D during the game. The ONLY reason we came within 2 touchdowns.

  Chuck is coming along as a Coach. Leadership is 1st for a head coach.

[CoachLite]

To be fair to Coach Pagano, it isn't whether we like him or not - he seems like a likeable guy. It's whether or not he is a good coach. First, that is very hard to determine because there are all the other coaches and all the other players that affect that decision. In order to make that decision, there needs to be objective criteria, and often these are not directly observable.

For example, if you believe that Pep Hamilton isn't effective as an OC, what role does that play in evaluating Chuck Pagano?

There is a way of evaluating the performance of coaching and coaching positions, but it is not cut-and-dried. It is a lot like evaluating a team's draft board - using conditional probability. That requires a big honkin' computer. Many teams don't use that method, choosing to use heuristics or gut-feeling.

If you're very talented at using heuristics and gut-feelings, that works. Most teams , in fact most individuals (including fans), aren't very good at using gut feelings for evaluations - and I think the Colt's are one such team.

[Superman]

For example, if you believe that Pep Hamilton isn't effective as an OC, what role does that play in evaluating Chuck Pagano?

Seems moot, except for those who are still unwilling to admit that Pep is an effective OC.

[1959Colts]

I don't like what I have seen from Pagano this season.

We seem unprepared each week. Poor gameplans, failing to make adjustments, putting the wrong players in the game at the wrong time.

Also I think the assistant coaches have been bad, but since Pagano is the Head Coach, he oversees all assistants, and ultimately is responsible, and in the end, he should be held accountable.

But I will give Pagano credit for getting us this far. To me, the true test for Pagano will come during the playoffs.

With the amount of talent this years team has, the Colts should be able to compete with anyone.

If we can squeeze out a few wins great! Give the credit to Chuck where it is due.

But I feel an embarrassing defeat should be not be well tolerated either.

I like Pagano, and hope he does well. I really do.

But Coach Pagano has had all the excuses this year for his team and players underachieving...

And a large number of posters on this board have all the excuses for Coach Pagano

[Yoshinator]

To be fair to Coach Pagano, it isn't whether we like him or not - he seems like a likeable guy. It's whether or not he is a good coach. First, that is very hard to determine because there are all the other coaches and all the other players that affect that decision. In order to make that decision, there needs to be objective criteria, and often these are not directly observable.

For example, if you believe that Pep Hamilton isn't effective as an OC, what role does that play in evaluating Chuck Pagano?

There is a way of evaluating the performance of coaching and coaching positions, but it is not cut-and-dried. It is a lot like evaluating a team's draft board - using conditional probability. That requires a big honkin' computer. Many teams don't use that method, choosing to use heuristics or gut-feeling.

If you're very talented at using heuristics and gut-feelings, that works. Most teams , in fact most individuals (including fans), aren't very good at using gut feelings for evaluations - and I think the Colt's are one such team.

This is a good post, let me just ask you one question? Do you honestly think we have a chance of winning a super bowl with chuck pagano as coach? Think about that for a minute and give me an honest answer.

[Yoshinator]

I don't like what I have seen from Pagano this season.

We seem unprepared each week. Poor gameplans, failing to make adjustments, putting the wrong players in the game at the wrong time.

Also I think the assistant coaches have been bad, but since Pagano is the Head Coach, he oversees all assistants, and ultimately is responsible, and in the end, he should be held accountable.

But I will give Pagano credit for getting us this far. To me, the true test for Pagano will come during the playoffs.

With the amount of talent this years team has, the Colts should be able to compete with anyone.

If we can squeeze out a few wins great! Give the credit to Chuck where it is due.

But I feel an embarrassing defeat should be not be well tolerated either.

I like Pagano, and hope he does well. I really do.

But Coach Pagano has had all the excuses this year for his team and players underachieving...

And a large number of posters on this board have all the excuses for Coach Pagano

BINGO! Best post of the day so far.

[Dark Superman]

I hope we don't waste the career of the next great NFL quarterback on a mediocre coach.If we played in a tougher division, I think Pagano would have been fired by now.

And who would you have replace him?