Our special teams coordinator (Tom McMahon) deserves some praise

[YOUR GM]

Over the past few seasons, we have quietly turned into one of the better special teams units in the league. In particular, the onside kicks have been huge this season. Who really knows what kind of games we would've been in, had we not shifted the momentum with those timely play calls.

 

I like to see that this staff is looking at every angle to win games, and those plays wouldn't have been made possible without lots of film study and a whole lot of courage on the part of McMahon, and ultimately Pagano. I've been critical of Pagano in the past because I've felt his over-conservatism has cost us a few games last year, but Kudos to him as well for finally bucking some of those negative tendencies he's had

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

We don't get the fancy returns but our coverage, onside kicks and tackling are top notch. Blame it on the BoomStick

[Nobody]

He has been very good, but also the mess up on that FG that became a TD..

[Maniq]

A lot of it is also due to Pat McAfee. He's definitely a keeper.

[jskinnz]

He has been very good, but also the mess up on that FG that became a TD..

Pagano was convinced that they were lined up correctly.

[lollygagger8]

Blame it on the BoomStick

This is awesome.

Patty Mac freakin rules.

[Dark Superman]

This has to be one of the better special teams units we've had in a while..

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

This is awesome.

Patty Mac freakin rules.

He certainly does. 

[21isSuperman]

He has been very good, but also the mess up on that FG that became a TD..

That was very iffy.  I think Kerr was lined up in the gap

[Superman]

That was very iffy.  I think Kerr was lined up in the gap

 

Yeah, I think he was, too. 

 

The special teams have been very good. Kicking and coverage have been perfect, really. Only complaint is that we don't have a really good returner, and Griff made some big mistakes against the Ravens. But that's not on the coach, that's on Griff. McMahon has a really good unit, for the most part. 

 

Maybe we should let Moncrief or Purifoy return some kickoffs.

[Superfly Jay]

Special teams have been on point. On the return side we need to change it up. Nothing against Whalen, but the dude is just too slow. We need a playmaker out there to help Andrew and the gang some.

[ColtsBlueFL]

That was very iffy.  I think Kerr was lined up in the gap

 

You can be in the gap, but you can't break another rule doing so-  to wit-

 

"When Team A presents a punt, field-goal, or Try Kick formation, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads at the snap."

 

Article 3, section a

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/12_2013_Scrimmage_Kick.pdf

 

If an official thinks they're overlapped even a little, it'll get flagged.  I'd like to see it again (pic or vid.)  Not that he was in the gap, but if there was any overlap.

[21isSuperman]

You can be in the gap, but you can't break another rule doing so-  to wit-

 

"When Team A presents a punt, field-goal, or Try Kick formation, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads at the snap."

 

Article 3, section a

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/12_2013_Scrimmage_Kick.pdf

 

If an official thinks they're overlapped even a little, it'll get flagged.  I'd like to see it again (pic or vid.  Not that he was in the gap, but if there was any overlap.

That's interesting.  I thought the rule was that you can't line up head up on the snapper.  I too would like to see a picture or video of it again

[Coffeedrinker]

I thought the call on Kerr was correct.  He was on the wrong side.  If he had gone to the defensive left side he would have been ok.  And, even though it lead to a TD, I don't mind the alignment.  IMO, if there is a grey area in a rule you do something until it's called and then you try it again in case that was a fluke call.  If it's called again then you adjust.

[chad72]

Polian, neglecting special teams for so long makes me realize how much we won DESPITE our special teams. Now, I feel more confident that outside the top 25, down to the top 46 on game day, we will have quality role players that will boost our special teams and D, if necessary, and continue to make key plays in the game.

 

Oh, the ignominy of a first SB kickoff return TD and a first post half SB onside kick recovery against us, that underscores the point.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I thought the call on Kerr was correct.  He was on the wrong side.  If he had gone to the defensive left side he would have been ok.  And, even though it lead to a TD, I don't mind the alignment.  IMO, if there is a grey area in a rule you do something until it's called and then you try it again in case that was a fluke call.  If it's called again then you adjust.

 

Well, that depends on which illegal formation was attempted and called.  Did we have more than 6 guys on one side of the ball?  IE:

 

 

 

(b)  When Team A presents a field - goal or Try Kick formation:

 (1) No more than six Team B players may be on the line of scrimmage on either side of the snapper at the snap)

Wh

Or was it Kerr's pads were just overlapped with the snapper?  Both will get you the penalty,  Even if we had 7 on one side, and Kerr goes to the other, he must leave the snapper totally uncovered (no overlap of defenders pads and the snapper.)  A picture will let us know which one we were at fault with, or maybe it could have even been both. 

[Coffeedrinker]

 

Well, that depends on which illegal formation was attempted and called.  Did we have more than 6 guys on one side of the ball?  IE:

 

 

 

(b)  When Team A presents a field - goal or Try Kick formation:

 (1) No more than six Team B players may be on the line of scrimmage on either side of the snapper at the snap)

Wh

Or was it Kerr's pads were just overlapped with the snapper?  Both will get you the penalty,  Even if we had 7 on one side, and Kerr goes to the other, he must leave the snapper totally uncovered (no overlap of defenders pads and the snapper.)  A picture will let us know which one we were at fault with, or maybe it could have even been both. 

 

I didn't know there was a number / side of ball penalty.  I just remember on the replay on the defensive left side it looked like the RG was uncovered and that Kerr tried to squeeze in on the defensive right side and if he slid over then he would have been over the RG.  But I didn't not count players on each side.

[Coltswarriors]

This has to be one of the better special teams units we've had in a while..

 

I think this IS the best special teams unit we've ever had.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I didn't know there was a number / side of ball penalty.  I just remember on the replay on the defensive left side it looked like the RG was uncovered and that Kerr tried to squeeze in on the defensive right side and if he slid over then he would have been over the RG.  But I didn't not count players on each side.

 

 

OK, I gotcha!  So you think if Kerr slid over more, he would not have overlapped the snapper at all and would have satisfied that part.  And we aren't sure that if he did or didn't cover the snappers pads by any amount, and we are also not sure how many we had lined up on that side after Kerr squeezed in.  (7 would be a penalty as well).  I wish someone had DVR'd it and could get a good still frame of alignment and numbers on each side at the line of scrimmage.  The rules are clarcut.  So if neither of these happened, then Pagano is 100% correct.  But I can see it is hard to see alignment from his perspective.  No real matter, it's over and past now.

[Superman]

OK, I gotcha!  So you think if Kerr slid over more, he would not have overlapped the snapper at all and would have satisfied that part.  And we aren't sure that if he did or didn't cover the snappers pads by any amount, and we are also not sure how many we had lined up on that side after Kerr squeezed in.  (7 would be a penalty as well).  I wish someone had DVR'd it and could get a good still frame of alignment and numbers on each side at the line of scrimmage.  The rules are clarcut.  So if neither of these happened, then Pagano is 100% correct.  But I can see it is hard to see alignment from his perspective.  No real matter, it's over and past now.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/2393-fg-penalty/

 

Want a different view?

[SteelCityColt]

So the discussion above prompted me to look up the rule book on the NFL site (though they only have the 2013 version for download?)... it's lengthy! Honestly quite suprised when you compare it to the laws (never rules ) of football (soccer if we must) and cricket. 

 

Seriously I do wonder if the NFL refs actually know all this....

[RockThatBlue]

This has to be one of the better special teams units we've had in a while..

Best unit we have had in years. During the peyton years our special teams were pretty brutal. Grigs has done a good job with it.

[NewColtsFan]

Two thoughts.....

 

First,  apparently we have McMahon to thank for all the successful onside kicks this year.   In an ESPN story I'm linking, McMahon challenged McAfee this off-season to work on his on-side kicks.    Which Pat did over and over and over again.    And now, you're seeing the result.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/8252/pat-mcafee-was-challenged-to-improve-onside-kicks-in-the-offseason

 

McMahon is in his 2nd year.   He was brought in after our ST coach was first after the 2012 season.

 

So,  that brings us to point #2.    If Grigson and Pagano think a coach needs to be replaced,  they'll do it.    They fired one coach and brought in McMahon.     This goes to the point of those who don't like Manusky and wonder why he isn't fired.

 

The answer:    Because he doesn't need to be fired.    He's good at his job.   

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

 

 

Want a different view?

 

 

No, That will do!  Thanks! Zach Kerr is in violation of Article 3, section a on Defensive Formation-

 

"When Team A presents a punt, field-goal, or Try Kick formation, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads at the snap."

 

He lined up on Red arrow, (his pads overlapped the snappers pads, a no no), dude in Blue is right on top of it and is going to be ready with yellow laundry (looks like he is already reaching for it), and Kerr needed to be lined up on the Yellow arrow.  Sorry Mr. Pagano. Unfortunately, you are wrong on this one.  Refs got it right. {click on image to zoom}

 

{EDIT: Coffeedrinker was right on in his assessment from memory above in a post, and called Kerr needed to slide over to the RG.  Nice recall there}

 

[Smonroe]

Want a different view?

From that view, by the letter of the law, it was a correct call.

Normally I don't pay attention, but I wonder how many times it's NOT called? Those guys are so huge it's hard not to overlap the gap.

[Superman]

No, That will do!  Thanks! Zach Kerr is in violation of Article 3, section a on Defensive Formation-

 

"When Team A presents a punt, field-goal, or Try Kick formation, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads at the snap."

 

He lined up on Red arrow, (his pads overlapped the snappers pads, a no no), dude in Blue is right on top of it and is going to be ready with yellow laundry (looks like he is already reaching for it), and Kerr needed to be lined up on the Yellow arrow.  Sorry Mr. Pagano. Unfortunately, you are wrong on this one.  Refs got it right. {click on image to zoom}

 

 

Good breakdown. I don't remember the ref's explanation at the time, but it didn't make it clear that the player has to be completely off the line of the snapper. Oh well, I'm sure they'll clean that up.

[Superman]

Two thoughts.....

 

First,  apparently we have McMahon to thank for all the successful onside kicks this year.   In an ESPN story I'm linking, McMahon challenged McAfee this off-season to work on his on-side kicks.    Which Pat did over and over and over again.    And now, you're seeing the result.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/8252/pat-mcafee-was-challenged-to-improve-onside-kicks-in-the-offseason

 

McMahon is in his 2nd year.   He was brought in after our ST coach was first after the 2012 season.

 

So,  that brings us to point #2.    If Grigson and Pagano think a coach needs to be replaced,  they'll do it.    They fired one coach and brought in McMahon.     This goes to the point of those who don't like Manusky and wonder why he isn't fired.

 

The answer:    Because he doesn't need to be fired.    He's good at his job.   

 

You make very good points, and I like the approach by the staff regarding onside kicks.

 

However, that article makes me cringe a little. Dustin mentioned after the Titans game that the surprise onside kick would change the way teams line up against us, especially later in the season. I kind of dismissed that concern at the time. The Texans didn't get the memo, but I expect everyone on our schedule is on notice after that game. And if they weren't, Pat just gave them the blueprint. I wish we had just kept it to generic comments -- the coachspeak and teamspeak that everyone hates because it's all platitudes and no specifics -- and let teams figure out for themselves what our approach is going to be. At this point, I'd bet money that we don't convert the next time we try an onside kick, if we even try one again. I'm positive that NO ONE will line up the way the Texans did.

[crazycolt1]

Very nice thread.

[Dark Superman]

I think this IS the best special teams unit we've ever had.

You may be right..

[Dark Superman]

Best unit we have had in years. During the peyton years our special teams were pretty brutal. Grigs has done a good job with it.

Grigs doesn't get enough credit

[ColtsBlueFL]

So the discussion above prompted me to look up the rule book on the NFL site (though they only have the 2013 version for download?)... it's lengthy! Honestly quite suprised when you compare it to the laws (never rules ) of football (soccer if we must) and cricket. 

 

Seriously I do wonder if the NFL refs actually know all this....

LOL,    ...well... they are supposed to!!  All of it. 

 

I do think most of the refs know most all of it.  The problem lies in interpretation.  Blandinos central review experiment is to 'coach up' the refs on the fly, and get consistency for all refs/games.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Pagano was convinced that they were lined up correctly.

he clearly was in the a gap the thing is. .... He is so huge that he was still kinda in front of the snapper lol

[John Dee]

Yeah, I think he was, too. 

 

The special teams have been very good. Kicking and coverage have been perfect, really. Only complaint is that we don't have a really good returner, and Griff made some big mistakes against the Ravens. But that's not on the coach, that's on Griff. McMahon has a really good unit, for the most part. 

 

Maybe we should let Moncrief or Purifoy return some kickoffs.

Yes................       

[wesd2890]

This forum should be give patty mac some credit.. that onside kick to himself was absolutely perfect