Colts near deal with CB Vontae Davis, or not? (Reports) [Merge]

[Gavin]

Under the old cap maybe. Next year a $10M APY contract is the equivalent to a $7.5M APY contract last year

I wouldn't do it at 10 mill, Just to inconsistent. Unfortunately there is a supply and demand involved now, Go with him and fork over possibly 10 mill (not worth that price) or go with the unkown at #1 Corner. To me 10 mill is unreasonable, That would make him the 2 highest paid Corner on average in the game. I'd look at Verner. I dnt know where people get the idea he cant play press man but its not true

[chelsea_fc]

I wouldn't do it at 10 mill, Just to inconsistent. Unfortunately there is a supply and demand involved now, Go with him and fork over possibly 10 mill (not worth that price) or go with the unkown at #1 Corner. To me 10 mill is unreasonable, That would make him the 2 highest paid Corner on average in the game. I'd look at Verner. I dnt know where people get the idea he cant play press man but its not true

Right now it would make him the 2nd highest paid corner, yes. But the cap is now on the incline and is supposed to be for at least the next couple of years. 2 or 3 years down the road he'll likely be more of a top 10 to 15 corner. Prices go up for players every year. That's what happens when the cap goes up.

Its a higher price now, but as the cap continues to go up and corners get paid more and more, it could be a deal sooner rather than later.

[Iancolts]

No news yet seems pretty hopeless for wanting Davis back

[dw49]

No news yet seems pretty hopeless for wanting Davis bac

 

Hopeless ? Naa... he'll be back at around 10 mill per year.

[Derakynn]

Don't see why people have some idea that Verner or Talib is going to get paid any less than Davis. Thought the same thing about Shields too. You are going to pay one way or another. Don't, and we will be lucky to win 8 games next year. You aren't going to replace what Davis does unless you get Sherman or Revis. No other corners are trusted to consistently blanket his man and have no safety help like Davis is. 

[jvan1973]

I wouldn't do it at 10 mill, Just to inconsistent. Unfortunately there is a supply and demand involved now, Go with him and fork over possibly 10 mill (not worth that price) or go with the unkown at #1 Corner. To me 10 mill is unreasonable, That would make him the 2 highest paid Corner on average in the game. I'd look at Verner. I dnt know where people get the idea he cant play press man but its not true

Verner will get a big payday as well

[Gavin]

Right now it would make him the 2nd highest paid corner, yes. But the cap is now on the incline and is supposed to be for at least the next couple of years. 2 or 3 years down the road he'll likely be more of a top 10 to 15 corner. Prices go up for players every year. That's what happens when the cap goes up.

Its a higher price now, but as the cap continues to go up and corners get paid more and more, it could be a deal sooner rather than later.

Skill set wise I think he is worth 10 mill but what he has done so far to me does not say 10 mill, If Im Grigson I dont think I'd do anymore then 32 mill over 4 years with 16 mill guaranteed or 42 over 5 years with 21 mill guaranteed

[jvan1973]

Skill set wise I think he is worth 10 mill but what he has done so far to me does not say 10 mill, If Im Grigson I dont think I'd do anymore then 32 mill over 4 years with 16 mill guaranteed or 42 over 5 years with 21 mill guaranteed

Then you would watch him walk out of the office and to another team

[Gavin]

Verner will get a big payday as well

right but I question if it will be in the 10 mill range. Grimes average is just a little over 8 mill

[Gavin]

Then you would watch him walk out of the office and to another team

probably not at that price

[jvan1973]

right but I question if it will be in the 10 mill range. Grimes average is just a little over 8 mill

Both guys are much younger than grimes. They will get paid more

[Flash7]

The Market has been set for Davis. He will earn close to, if not more than 9+ Mill a year. The question is, will it be with the Colts?

 

I don't think he'll agree to take less than what he's worth. If Davis is not signed, then guys like Talib, Verner, or any of the other top CBs are also out of the question. They will likely want around the same salary. If we're not going to pay our own CB, Davis, then we're not going to pay a similar price for someone else who may not be as good, as good of a fit.

 

So it would appear that we would have to look for a mid-tier CB with potential upside to play for the Colts. Someone like Toler was last year.

[Gavin]

Both guys are much younger than grimes. They will get paid more

Right but at some point you have to factor in what his production has been to this point despite his skill set, A player can have the skill set but the production dont match it,

[NewEra]

I think everyone agrees on wanting him back. The thing is most of us level headed people want him back for the right price. I think all contracts need to be incentive based contracts personally.

[The Fish]

So, is it safe to say Vontae is going elsewhere? 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but paying 10 million bucks to the CB who gave up 7 or 8 long TD's last year is steep. 

[GoColts8818]

So, is it safe to say Vontae is going elsewhere? 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but paying 10 million bucks to the CB who gave up 7 or 8 long TD's last year is steep.

idont think it's safe to say that at all. Some reports say a deal with the Colts will be done today. So just wait and see.

[Dustin]

I think everyone agrees on wanting him back. The thing is most of us level headed people want him back for the right price. I think all contracts need to be incentive based contracts personally.

 

It's almost impossible to make an incentive laden deal for a defensive back. They don't really have stats that they can directly effect.

[COLTS449]

Wonder when we'll hear something???

[Gavin]

It's almost impossible to make an incentive laden deal for a defensive back. 

According to PFF stats whats the average completion percentage allowed by  Corners

[Dustin]

According to PFF stats whats the average completion percentage allowed by  Corner

 

Like 57% if I had to guess, but I don't think I've ever heard of a incentive in a contract based on a some advanced stat. It's mostly standard stats like passing yards, TDs scored, receiving yards, ect...

[Superman]

Like 57% if I had to guess, but I don't think I've ever heard of a incentive in a contract based on a some advanced stat. It's mostly standard stats like passing yards, TDs scored, receiving yards, ect...

 

 

According to PFF stats whats the average completion percentage allowed by  Corner

 

Incentives are pre-determined by the CBA. Advanced stats can't be used. Specific to defensive players, the incentive categories are interceptions, interception return yards, TDs on interception returns, opponent fumble recoveries, opponent fumble return yards, TDs on opponent fumble returns, and sacks. 

 

I can't see any of those incentives being a big part of a deal for a top tier corner. You can do play time incentives, which I believe is based on snaps played (might be games active, not sure). But that wouldn't be all that beneficial for us right now. Might save us some money in the future if Davis misses time with injury, but there would be no 2014 savings.

 

And then there are team based incentives, but I doubt those would be a big part of Davis' contract either.

[Gavin]

Like 57% if I had to guess, but I don't think I've ever heard of a incentive in a contract based on a some advanced stat. It's mostly standard stats like passing yards, TDs scored, receiving yards, ect...

Maybe a team can lay out for example in an incetive based deal like, 58 mill (6 year deal) with 38 guaranteed, with the incentive of the extra 20 mill an average of 15-18 passes defensed and 3 picks per year

[Dustin]

Maybe a team can lay out for example in an incetive based deal like, 58 mill (6 year deal) with 38 guaranteed, with the incentive of the extra 20 mill an average of 15-18 passes defensed and 3 picks per year

 

Would probably never happen. He can get a better contract than that from another team.

[Jason_]

My guess is if we sign him the forum will complain we over paid for him and scream at Grigson for doing a bad deal or we won't sign him and the forum will complain we let him walk and scream at Grigson for letting him walk. A true no win spot for Grigson at least with the fanbase.

 

that's been pretty much the case with every acquisition Grigson has made so far

[Iancolts]

Well shields is gone Verner doesn't fit out scheme so pay Davis whatever it takes even if it eats up too much salary cap that's what I'm getting from reading through all these post

[Jason_]

I woudn't pay anymore then 8 mill

 

You wouldn't pay him more than Brent Grimes who is 5 years older?  

[Gavin]

Would probably never happen. He can get a better contract than that from another team.

Im not so sure.... thats almost 10 mill a year possible

[Beauregarde]

Im not so sure.... thats almost 10 mill a year possible

It seems to me that Davis should be worth more to the Colts than any other team. The Colts know what he is and how well he plays in their system. If you bring in a CB from another team you never know those things for sure. I think that is why Polian overpaid for his own free agents but rarely for other teams players.

[Jason_]

Im not so sure.... thats almost 10 mill a year possible

 

For a CB to get passes defensed (which wasn't even on the list Superman provided) or INT's, the opposing teams have to throw his way.  If a CB plays lights out, the opposing QB may not even attempt a throw in his direction.  I can't see a CB signing for less with those as the incentives.

[Gavin]

You wouldn't pay him more than Brent Grimes who is 5 years younger?  You wouldn't be a GM for very long. ;)

I wouldn't pay based on age, Age for me would only facor into is if you were on the wrong side of 30

[NewEra]

It's almost impossible to make an incentive laden deal for a defensive back. They don't really have stats that they can directly effect.

Passes defended. Ints, ints ran back. Would be cool. But I know what you're saying.

[jvan1973]

For a CB to get passes defensed (which wasn't even on the list Superman provided) or INT's, the opposing teams have to throw his way. If a CB plays lights out, the opposing QB may not even attempt a throw in his direction. I can't see a CB signing for less with those as the incentives.

they won't

[Jason_]

I wouldn't pay based on age, Age for me would only facor into is if you were on the wrong side of 30

 

That only works in Madden or some fantasy land.  In real life NFL, age is always going to come into play.  Oh, btw, Grimes IS on the wrong side of 30.  

[Jason_]

they won't

 

Yeah I know...I was just trying to word it somewhat nicely ;) lol

[Gavin]

For a CB to get passes defensed (which wasn't even on the list Superman provided) or INT's, the opposing teams have to throw his way.  If a CB plays lights out, the opposing QB may not even attempt a throw in his direction.  I can't see a CB signing for less with those as the incentives.

Davis was targeted plenty last year and would continue to be until he put up a fairly big int year which would (in theory) make teams think twice about throwing at him, But another example I can think of is Sherman who is the opposite of that comes to mind, One of the best Corners in the game....He gets targeted plenty and sveral of those times he makes a QB think a wr is open

[Jason_]

Davis was targeted plenty last year and would continue to be until he put up a fairly big int year which would (in theory) make teams think twice about throwing at him, But another example I can think of is Sherman who is the opposite of that comes to mind, One of the best Corners in the game....He gets targeted plenty and sveral of those times he makes a QB think a wr is open

 

well that's just dandy and those scenarios are entirely possible.  However the scenario I proposed is also possible so again, I don't see a CB signing a contract that requires him to get X number of INT's per year in order to earn his full contract.

[Gavin]

That only works in Madden or some fantasy land.  In real life NFL, age is always going to come into play.  Oh, btw, Grimes IS on the wrong side of 30.  

Right but 16.95 guaranteed of the 32 mill......essentially a 2 year deal

[Gavin]

well that's just dandy and those scenarios are entirely possible.  However the scenario I proposed is also possible so again, I don't see a CB signing a contract that requires him to get X number of INT's per year in order to earn his full contract.

I dont see a team willing to pay a good but inconsistent Corner 10 mill fully guaranteed with the hopes that he lives up to his full potential...He clearly has shown flashes of what he can do...which is the reason for the incentive based deal, ya give him a fully guaranteed deal and ya get a year like you did last year or the year before and your gonna be out a butt load of money

[jvan1973]

I dont see a team willing to pay a good but inconsistent Corner 10 mill fully guaranteed with the hopes that he lives up to his full potential...He clearly has shown flashes of what he can do...which is the reason for the incentive based deal, ya give him a fully guaranteed deal and ya get a year like you did last year or the year before and your gonna be out a butt load of money

Who is suggesting a fully guaranteed contract? 5 years 50 million with about half guaranteed is what i think he will get

[BLUEx40]

I think hes going to free agency he want the colts to out bid other teams