Werner "Needs To Get Stronger" - Ryan Grigson

[Modern]

That statement is really conspicuous. It makes me shake my head. I don't know what it is about Ryan Grigson that would make someone feel that way.

I think the Richardson trade has me questioning him more then I would have otherwise.

I think he does need to have a good draft this year.

[Superman]

I think the Richardson trade has me questioning him more then I would have otherwise.

I think he does need to have a good draft this year.

 

I like last year's draft.

 

Not crazy about the Werner pick, but I think it can work out, and I'm willing to give the young man more than 12 games as a rookie before I determine what kind of pro he's going to be. I watched him very closely all year, and he improved significantly at the technical aspects. And that's after he wound up playing a position that we didn't originally intend for him to play (he was expected to be Mathis' backup at Rush, not a swing backup between Rush and Sam; that kind of triples his duties, to be honest, because of how much more involved the Sam job is). My guy was Xavier Rhodes, but he wasn't a standout as a rookie. Travis Frederick probably would have been the best pick for us, but many felt he was overdrafted at the time.

 

Thornton started a bunch of games, with mixed results, but he showed promise. And if things go well in the offseason workout and training program, he'll be a starter next season at RG, which is the position he played best at.

 

Holmes is an unknown. Didn't play center at all, but played some 6th blocker later in the season, and did a good job. He essentially redshirted the season, which again isn't the worst thing in the world. It sucks because we could have used some extra competition at C/G this season, and he apparently wasn't ready. He also nursed injuries at the beginning of the season. Again, give him the offseason program, and he should compete next year as well.

 

Hughes played well for us, once he got on the field. Some don't think so; I don't know what they watched. He was strong, quick, good hands, got push, held his spot on run plays, played with balance and leverage, was disciplined, etc. I think he'll be a significant factor for us next season.

 

Boyett wasn't a bad pick, he was a futures pick. He cost himself a roster spot by being an immature loser. But that pick was reminiscent of the Chapman pick in 2012. Shelve him for a year, and see what he does once he's healthy. Too bad he messed that up.

 

Williams didn't do anything, but as a 7th rounder, that's not exactly surprising. Same thing for Cunningham, who I think got poached from us, or he'd still be on our practice squad.

 

The draft didn't have the same immediate impact as the 2012 draft did, but I think it added four solid trench players who will be around for a while. Not sexy and flashy, not going to get people excited like last year's rookies did, but that doesn't mean it was a bad draft. In some ways, it can be just as important, especially if Thornton and Holmes help shore up the interior line play.

 

I think people should go look at the Seahawks draft for 2013. Everyone seems to think they are such a great franchise with a great front office. They deserve a ton of credit, to be sure, but we got more out of our draft than they got out of theirs, with half as many picks.

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

Keenan Allen doesn't need to get stronger. Neither do a few other players Grigs passed on

[BOTT]

I would really like to know what the teams feelings are about Khalid Holmes. I bring it up because I was listening to 1070 earlier today and Mike Wells was on there talking about who he thinks the team will let walk in free agency. Holmes name got brought up and Wells said that the team obviously thinks he's garbage. Pretty strong statement.

Staysniak said he expected Holmes to start next season....for what that's worth.

[Superman]

I dont know if he will be good or not, I just think he was a reach with the position change and all. If it works then Grigson is a genius, if not then its all on him.

What worries me with GM's is if you get one who thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and wants to prove it by taking players nobody expected them to take. I hope Grigson isnt one of those guys.

 

Just coming back to this: http://archive.indystar.com/article/20140116/SPORTS03/301160021/1058/SPORTS03

 

We’ve already had one meeting, kind of end of year meeting. I thought it was fantastic with the entire staff. Really got some great input. That’s the one thing, I feel nobody is afraid to voice their opinion here. We get in a big round table and it’s not some stuffy session where I’m sitting there with my notepad. We interact with each other. Everything is out on the table because that way we know what the guys is at their core, what they feel they need, who they are passionate about and then you make your decisions. 

 

[John Dee]

I like last year's draft.

 

Not crazy about the Werner pick, but I think it can work out, and I'm willing to give the young man more than 12 games as a rookie before I determine what kind of pro he's going to be. I watched him very closely all year, and he improved significantly at the technical aspects. And that's after he wound up playing a position that we didn't originally intend for him to play (he was expected to be Mathis' backup at Rush, not a swing backup between Rush and Sam; that kind of triples his duties, to be honest, because of how much more involved the Sam job is). My guy was Xavier Rhodes, but he wasn't a standout as a rookie. Travis Frederick probably would have been the best pick for us, but many felt he was overdrafted at the time.

 

Thornton started a bunch of games, with mixed results, but he showed promise. And if things go well in the offseason workout and training program, he'll be a starter next season at RG, which is the position he played best at.

 

Holmes is an unknown. Didn't play center at all, but played some 6th blocker later in the season, and did a good job. He essentially redshirted the season, which again isn't the worst thing in the world. It sucks because we could have used some extra competition at C/G this season, and he apparently wasn't ready. He also nursed injuries at the beginning of the season. Again, give him the offseason program, and he should compete next year as well.

 

Hughes played well for us, once he got on the field. Some don't think so; I don't know what they watched. He was strong, quick, good hands, got push, held his spot on run plays, played with balance and leverage, was disciplined, etc. I think he'll be a significant factor for us next season.

 

Boyett wasn't a bad pick, he was a futures pick. He cost himself a roster spot by being an immature loser. But that pick was reminiscent of the Chapman pick in 2012. Shelve him for a year, and see what he does once he's healthy. Too bad he messed that up.

 

Williams didn't do anything, but as a 7th rounder, that's not exactly surprising. Same thing for Cunningham, who I think got poached from us, or he'd still be on our practice squad.

 

The draft didn't have the same immediate impact as the 2012 draft did, but I think it added four solid trench players who will be around for a while. Not sexy and flashy, not going to get people excited like last year's rookies did, but that doesn't mean it was a bad draft. In some ways, it can be just as important, especially if Thornton and Holmes help shore up the interior line play.

 

I think people should go look at the Seahawks draft for 2013. Everyone seems to think they are such a great franchise with a great front office. They deserve a ton of credit, to be sure, but we got more out of our draft than they got out of theirs, with half as many picks.

Yes... 

 

The draft is a total crapshoot...      If a team can get 3 players to just contribute for several years then that draft is a success.

 

This is the very reason I am not so bummed by the T Rich trade.    Nobody knows.    And as I stated earlier, if Hughes and Holmes are the reason this draft is looked poorly upon.   But that can change really fast.  

[Smonroe]

Staysniak said he expected Holmes to start next season....for what that's worth.

I'm hoping we sign a vet like Mack. That was a strong statement to say Holmes is garbage though. He may have been shooting his mouth off.

Holmes looked decent in garbage time. I don't know if his problem is strength or speed. You can correct the former.

[NewEra]

Obviously, he was a rookie playing against nfl veterans. Much more stranger and wiser players

[BOTT]

I'm hoping we sign a vet like Mack. That was a strong statement to say Holmes is garbage though. He may have been shooting his mouth off.

Holmes looked decent in garbage time. I don't know if his problem is strength or speed. You can correct the former.

I have already dismissed the idea of getting Mack. The Browns have plenty of cap space and can't see them letting him go....unless he simply doesn't like the direction of the team.

[Modern]

I have already dismissed the idea of getting Mack. The Browns have plenty of cap space and can't see them letting him go....unless he simply doesn't like the direction of the team.

Maybe we could guilt them into it over the Richardson trade.

Then again we might leave the table with Weeden and no 1st rounder next year.

[Modern]

I have already dismissed the idea of getting Mack. The Browns have plenty of cap space and can't see them letting him go....unless he simply doesn't like the direction of the team.

Maybe we could guilt them into it over the Richardson trade.

Then again we might leave the table with Weeden and no 1st rounder next year.

[Modern]

I have already dismissed the idea of getting Mack. The Browns have plenty of cap space and can't see them letting him go....unless he simply doesn't like the direction of the team.

Maybe we could guilt them into it over the Richardson trade.

Then again we might leave the table with Weeden and no 1st rounder next year.

[Modern]

I have already dismissed the idea of getting Mack. The Browns have plenty of cap space and can't see them letting him go....unless he simply doesn't like the direction of the team.

Maybe we could guilt them into it over the Richardson trade.

Then again we might leave the table with Weeden and no 1st rounder next year.

[Modern]

Oh man sorry about that. Tapatalk locked up amd it won't let me in to edit any of the posts.

[braveheartcolt]

Btw,'turmoil' is actually a hawaiian word meaning 'big slow crappy bearded guy'.

True, look it up.

[NewColtsFan]

My only concern about "Werner needs to get stronger" comment is this.......

 

A player can get stronger without having to gain weight.   You can lift more weight and higher amounts of weight without gaining weight.

 

Werner is listed at 260.   He doesn't need to gain more weight.

 

I'm a bit fanatical about this because I think we have players on our roster right now who need to lose weight.

 

-- Thornton gained 15 pounds from college and is 334.   I'd like to see him drop 10.

-- Chapman has gained 25 pounds from college is and 340.   I'd like to see him dropo 10-15.

-- Richardson is 225 and looks a step slow to me.   I'd like to see him down to 215,  his weight as a sophomore which I thought was his best year.

 

So, I'm weight sensitive....

 

Werner needs to get stronger?    Fine.

 

Werner needs to get bigger?       No.

 

We'll see......

[lollygagger8]

Time for Werner to start eating 15 pancakes, 20 eggs, and a pound of bacon for breakfast and start benching buses.

Seriously though, he needs to get stronger. I agree.

Everyone keeps talking about 3 years to judge a draft, but everyone judged Grig's first draft the same year. Cmon now.

[ztboiler]

I dont know if he will be good or not, I just think he was a reach with the position change and all. If it works then Grigson is a genius, if not then its all on him.

What worries me with GM's is if you get one who thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and wants to prove it by taking players nobody expected them to take. I hope Grigson isnt one of those guys.

Me thinks you might be making too much of this....but hey, it's hard for me to keep up with all this Modern, new-fangled thinkin'

[LockeDown]

It may take 3 years to judge a draft, but Dungy always said the 2nd year is where you see the biggest change. So, if Werner is going to pan out, we should see the signs next season. Btw, Grigsons takes are always interesting. Pagano is a talented motivator and can blow smoke if he wanted to, but Grigson isn't like that.

[ztboiler]

Time for Werner to start eating 15 pancakes, 20 eggs, and a pound of bacon for breakfast and start benching buses.

Seriously though, he needs to get stronger. I agree.

Everyone keeps talking about 3 years to judge a draft, but everyone judged Grig's first draft the same year. Cmon now.

 

Many forget that we signed 6 planned FA starters in 2013 (D. Thomas, Cherilus, RJF, Walden, Landry, Toler) and 2 more vets that did start (DHB, Franklin) along with a playmaking RB (Bradshaw).  We were never a team in 2013 that was set up to need much from our rookie draft class.  

 

In 2012, we drafted rookies who we counted on to play because that was what our roster required.  Most teams that are trying to win something don't do that!  You can't get early returns on a draft without opportunity.  

[jvan1973]

Time for Werner to start eating 15 pancakes, 20 eggs, and a pound of bacon for breakfast and start benching buses.

Seriously though, he needs to get stronger. I agree.

Everyone keeps talking about 3 years to judge a draft, but everyone judged Grig's first draft the same year. Cmon now.

not really. The jury is still out on chapmam. But Luck, Fleener allen and hilton have all contributed thus far. Most drafts aren't that productive so quickly. It takes two or three years to honestly grade a draft

[rock8591]

Chapman maybe needs to get down to 330 at the very most. It IS possible, if not probable to be short and have a big frame - he probably has the biggest frame I've ever seen.

 

Him at 315-325 would probably look anorexic.

[SteelCityColt]

Probably easier to teach a new dog a new trick as opposed to an older, scabbed-up, more expensive dog.  Particularly if said older, scabbed-up, more expensive dog doesn't show signs of picking up the new trick after a year.

 

For whatever reason this made think of this and then I got sad : 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrCC9lJDfeA

[SteelCityColt]

I like last year's draft.

 

 

 

Great post, and I mostly agree, especially the part about Werner having to take on both OLB duties from scratch.

[love the shoe]

Freeney couldnt make that transition very well so he drafts a rookie and asks him to do the same.

Doesnt make sense.

My idea would be to draft guys that already play the position in a similar scheme.

Grigson needs to work some magic in this draft because he dropped the ball last year.

Freeeny could not stop the run. They ran at him because he would rush upfield and take himself out of the play trying to get the qb. This guy is young he will be ok

[Jason_]

Freeeny could not stop the run. They ran at him because he would rush upfield and take himself out of the play trying to get the qb. This guy is young he will be ok

 

I don't think it's completely fair or accurate to say that Freeney could not stop the run.  He was not asked to.  He and Mathis both were pretty much all out pass rush every single down.  Now whether that's because they were told to or it was poor play recognition on their part it's really difficult to say.

[Old Colt]

Grigson needs to work some magic in this draft because he dropped the ball last year.

Since Grigson dropped the ball, maybe you should replace him....  call Irsay and give him your vast expetise;  easy to be a January QB, plus I didn't realize a rookie makes or breaks their career in year one.....  guess rookie means something different than I thought.  Sure glad we didn't call Peyton a bust or Polian dropped the ball by taking him (Maybe he should have taken Ryan Leaf) after his rookie year.....  it was not great.  But, I think he did pretty well as he had time and developed. 

[Jason_]

How many awards did he get as an OLB ?

He was given a new position the same time as the game speed and the talent of the players around him increased greatly. Many players can't make the transition to the NFL at a position they have been playing for years. Drafting a guy in the 1st and expecting him to adjust his game to the NFL and to play a new position is rough and I would say many players couldnt handle doing it.

So Werner wasnt a hidden gem at DE, but if he succeeds at what is being asked of him then I would say he was as a linebacker.

Freeney couldnt do it, Mathis could, we will have to wait and see if Werner has success.

 

He did play standing up some at FSU.  Not a lot, but some.  And you didn't answer my question.  What experienced 3-4 OLB's could we have taken?  The only pass rusher that went in the first round that was primarily an OLB in college was Jarvis Jones.  

 

It's also not really correct to say that Freeney couldn't do it.  He was injured most of his last year here and he was playing well in San Diego before going on IR.

[Jason_]

I disagree. The verdict isnt pending on the 2012 draft so why would it need 2 more years in 2013 ? With early round picks you generally know what you have pretty early on, later rounds are where you pick up your project players who need to develop.

 

It's been said many, many times on here but apparently needs to be repeated again...the 2012 draft was by far an aberration and NOT the norm.  For one thing, that was as loaded a draft as there probably has ever been.  Two, we had pretty much zero skill position players before that draft.  We had Reggie, the recently signed Donnie Avery, Donald Brown and....?  Brody Eldridge may have still been under contract and if so he was the only TE on the roster.  Whoever they drafted on offense that year was going to see significant playing time and therefore forced to make an early impact because there was no one else to play.  

 

Bottom line, it is NOT the norm to come out of a draft and have 6 players (Allen, Fleener, Hilton, Brazill, Ballard, Luck) that make a huge, immediate impact.  

[Old Colt]

Keenan Allen doesn't need to get stronger. Neither do a few other players Grigs passed on

???  Allen plays a different position, different strength needed.  Plus Allen does need to get stronger and recoup from injury so it hopefully doesn't happen again.  Again, maybe you should call Irsay and offer your vast expertise..... Another January, hindsight GM.

[BrentMc11]

Completely untrue. It takes many first round picks a couple of years to adjust to the nfl

Werner was limited greatly by the plantar fascia tear.  Nothing is any more painful in the foot except a Achilles tear.

 

I wanted to respond to your post jvan since I agreed with YOURS and not Modern's.  

 

When healthy, Werner got to the QB quite a bit, and at the end of the season he even set the edge well.  This kid has the motor and desire.  Hit the weight room running Bjoern....but don't get hurt  Werner will help the pass rush next year...I guarantee it!!          !!!!!

[Gavin]

Mhhm I figured as much. It showed

[bertjones#1]

Think Werner is gonna surprise people next year once he gets more reps at that position.

If he gets a little stronger he`ll b hard to handle, he`s got good technique .

Like the way he uses his hands to fight off blockers, reminds me of Shaun Phillips

[Jason_]

Think Werner is gonna surprise people next year once he gets more reps at that position.

If he gets a little stronger he`ll b hard to handle, he`s got good technique .

Like the way he uses his hands to fight off blockers, reminds me of Shaun Phillips

 

I agree.  Ultimately I think Werner will prove to be a great all-around OLB...good against the run and pass.  Having OLB's like that will help A LOT with flexibility and disguising of the defense.  

[Warhorse]

Just coming back to this: http://archive.indystar.com/article/20140116/SPORTS03/301160021/1058/SPORTS03

This.........

 

"But it just takes one that’s thinking like you and they go and take the guy in (round) one. It just takes one to snatch one of your guys and overpay for them because that’s the way I’ve gotten guys before in free agency. You have to overpay to pull them out, because they’ve got houses there, their kids are in school, there’s things that ‘Joe fan’ and people don’t understand. Guys don’t always don’t want to leave where they are at because they are comfortable. They have houses, all those types of things. Now unless there’s someone where they are getting their barn doors blown off every week, everyone wants to get out of that situation. There’s a lot in play when you make those decisions"

[throwing BBZ]

This board talked about Holmes not getting any burn a lot. I don't think they thought he was ready, but that doesn't mean they think he's "garbage."

 

Mike Wells doesn't know anything, by the way.

 

Thanks Ryan for the inside about a 1st year NFL player that needs to get stronger. Duh! His feet? Ya, he definitely showed he is not currently athletic enough as a pass rusher.

Wells point is ridiculous.

Shipley improved our play and was traded.

McGlynn improved our play and was the backup.

There was ZERO opportunity for Holmes to play ahead of McGlynn at Center.

Pagano LOVES his 4 (NO) Position man LINK. #2 on the depth chart to McGlynn.

 Any week Reitz was healthy he was a better guard than McGlynn.

I will not be surprised if Satele is back. I mean McGlynn who can`t play guard was brought back and STARTED. WOW!!

Our GM has screwed up Plenty.

[Superman]

Thanks Ryan for the inside about a 1st year NFL player that needs to get stronger. Duh! His feet? Ya, he definitely showed he is not currently athletic enough as a pass rusher.

Wells point is ridiculous.

Shipley improved our play and was traded.

McGlynn improved our play and was the backup.

There was ZERO opportunity for Holmes to play ahead of McGlynn at Center.

Pagano LOVES his 4 (NO) Position man LINK. #2 on the depth chart to McGlynn.

 Any week Reitz was healthy he was a better guard than McGlynn.

I will not be surprised if Satele is back. I mean McGlynn who can`t play guard was brought back and STARTED. WOW!!

Our GM has screwed up Plenty.

 

Are you going to stop foaming at the mouth long enough to put Grigson's moves into perspective? 

[cbear]

Not sure why everyone is getting so up in arms because Werner didn't have Freeney's first year.  Shall we give him....oh I don't know.....maybe TWO years before we start saying Grigs made a mistake?

[throwing BBZ]

Are you going to stop foaming at the mouth long enough to put Grigson's moves into perspective? 

 

I know he STUCK himself with Satele for this season. And he positioned himself where he can cut Satele if Holmes works or not. Get a Clue.

How many here think PAGANO Started the best player available at C or guard last year or this? Hmmm!  

With all the $$$ he had available, if YOU think McGlynn had to be brought back, SHOULD have been on the roster this year and STARTED, then you are 100% Hopeless.

 If you think McGlynn should have Started ahead of Reitz, .

If you think McGlynn should have started ahead of Nixon, lol

 This is not stuff that FB fans struggle to get. No, it`s just difficult to the young, or true blue Colts Homers.

 Grigson is a ... guy, he has been given an opportunity to see if he (and his staff) can do the job. PERIOD!

  I think he has more important BAD Decisions on his record than good so far. JMO

[Superman]

I know he STUCK himself with Satele for this season. And he positioned himself where he can cut Satele if Holmes works or not. Get a Clue.

How many here think PAGANO Started the best player available at C or guard last year or this? Hmmm!

With all the $$$ he had available, if YOU think McGlynn had to be brought back, SHOULD have been on the roster this year and STARTED, then you are 100% Hopeless.

If you think McGlynn should have Started ahead of Reitz, .

If you think McGlynn should have started ahead of Nixon, lol

This is not stuff that FB fans struggle to get. No, it`s just difficult to the young, or true blue Colts Homers.

Grigson is a ... guy, he has been given an opportunity to see if he (and his staff) can do the job. PERIOD!

I think he has more important BAD Decisions on his record than good so far. JMO

So no, you're not going to take a step back and really think about things rationally? Fair deal, carry on.