Pagano not ready to give Holmes a shot yet

[Smonroe]

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/2036/pagano-not-ready-to-give-holmes-a-shot-yet

 

At this point in the season, I just couldn't disagree with Pagano more.  Admittedly, Pagano knows more about the game, and I trust in what he's doing.  But given the gap between what he knows and what I know, I just can't see the reasoning for not giving Khaled a chance.  I mean, there are several reasons (i.e. not ready yet), but Pagano shot all that down and instead said that "there just hasn't been an opporunity."  That just isn't good enough.  If that's the only reason he keeps Satele in, then I'm disappointed in Chuck.  If it's because he's worse than Satele, fine.  But at this point, I don't see how you get any worse than Satele, so why not put him in.

I think you answered your own question. You have to admit that gap is like the Grand Canyon.

[TKnight24]

Really not looking forward to our offensive line tomorrow night

[Boilermaker]

Really not looking forward to our offensive line tomorrow night

Are you ever looking forward to it?

[Colts_Fan12]

Are you ever looking forward to it?

Ik I don't it scares me any of satele or McGlynns screw ups can hurt Andrew and they screw up A LOT

[TKnight24]

Are you ever looking forward to it?

I looked forward to it when Donald Thomas was healthy. It was better then. All we needed to do was get rid of Satele. We did that, but then lost Thomas

I was proud of the offensive line in the 49ers game

[csmopar]

If Andrew get hurt playing behind this thing we call a line all hell is gonna break loose

If Andrew gets hurt behind this line I can assure you there'll be a certain Twitter happy owner going nuts and the entire staff gone again as well as the players on that line. I just hope it never comes to that

[tenbears1971]

fixing the O line THIS season is basically impossible. However, there are ways we can make it look less bad, such as:

 

1: draws, counters, and sweeps ( sweeps only to donald brown). 

2: quick slants, and more HB screens.

3:stop trying to run the ball up the middle... especially middle right.

 

4. Punt

[Gavin]

4. Punt

5.Luck using his built in checkdown and underneath routes more (I watch the All 22 Film...He is terrible at that)

[unitaswestand]

Holmes didn't look that good to me in preseason, which was a bummer.  He often was too high and got knocked backwards.  Now, one could say that happens to Satele on every play   I don't believe, though, they they won't make a change.  Luck is getting killed and Irsay, Grigson, and Pagano have all said keeping him upright and running the ball are a priority.  So if Holmes is better than Satele at some point, he will play I believe.   I don't wish bad things on players, but I hope Holmes at least gets a chance this year.  Can't be any worse!

[unitaswestand]

On another note, I am surprised the Grigson didn't do a bit more with the line in the off season. I know he signed Thomas and Cherius and drafted Holmes and Thornton.  But since Grigson is not a believer in rookie offensive lineman starting, that mean by default we would be stuck with McGlynn at RG.   I don't think Satele was going to get dumped because of his contract.  I don't mind Walden, but for the money he got, we could added one good olineman or two mid level lineman to help out.  I do hope in this off season that we can add another 3-4 solid players and weed out the weak sisters (Satele and McGlynn)

[Superman]

On another note, I am surprised the Grigson didn't do a bit more with the line in the off season. I know he signed Thomas and Cherius and drafted Holmes and Thornton.  But since Grigson is not a believer in rookie offensive lineman starting, that mean by default we would be stuck with McGlynn at RG.   I don't think Satele was going to get dumped because of his contract.  I don't mind Walden, but for the money he got, we could added one good olineman or two mid level lineman to help out.  I do hope in this off season that we can add another 3-4 solid players and weed out the weak sisters (Satele and McGlynn)

 

If we wanted another lineman, we had the cap space to add one. I think we were fine with the additions we made. I don't like Satele, and I don't like McGlynn at RG (he's better at C), but I think the team was mostly set on starting them. 

[esmort]

On another note, I am surprised the Grigson didn't do a bit more with the line in the off season. I know he signed Thomas and Cherius and drafted Holmes and Thornton.  But since Grigson is not a believer in rookie offensive lineman starting, that mean by default we would be stuck with McGlynn at RG.   I don't think Satele was going to get dumped because of his contract.  I don't mind Walden, but for the money he got, we could added one good olineman or two mid level lineman to help out.  I do hope in this off season that we can add another 3-4 solid players and weed out the weak sisters (Satele and McGlynn)

 

I could not believe it either I thought for sure we would at the very least get another guard.  Walden's contract was not even an issue, there were several guards better than McGlynn who signed 1 year contracts for the same or less than McGlynn; including Slauson who is one of the top ranked guards in the league this year.

[bestQBever]

4. Punt

we've already been doing this. A LOT.

[luckycharm]

U know I'm having mix feelings in here. Because for some reason I feel everyone in here is not all actual Colts fans, but haters instead. Colts fans should not question the general manager choices after the Colts beat not 1, not 2, but 3 really good teams that happen to be arguably they best teams in football. It's one game that the Colts look completely terrible adding a few bad calls the refs been making in Colts games. Give them a break! The Colts have not lost not 1 meaningful game.Yet all were games lost to teams that may not even make the playoffs. Dolphins, Chargers, and Rams. The Colts are 2-0 in the division and 2gms. Ahead of the closest opponent which they will beat this Thurs. Because it's a big gm. Colts are undefeated in meaningful games this yr. And they still have a chance for homefield having won tie breaker with Denver and also have a game against the Chiefs later. So be patient and see how this thing unfolds it's still a early season even tho it's week 10.

[luckycharm]

Have some confidence!! As a fan believe in your favorite team. They have already proven more than once that they can bang heads with the absolute best teams and beat them. I'm sick of hearing about what they need to do next year what about now like this year. U know this could by the year!! Of all the teams in the playoffs last yr. I felt the Colts gave the Ravens who eventually won the Superbowl there toughest game for 4qrts. Also included that the interim/coach Bruce Arians had got mysteriously sick and could not even travel, talk, or even watch the game for that matter to help his team. We will never know if he was there would it have been different.The Colts defense played well in that gm. What I'm trying to say is I do not think the Colts are not that far from winning a Superbowl by there performance and adversity they had to go threw in that gm. Against the Ravens. Like I said this could be the year with or without Reggie I like the Colts chances.

[jameszeigler834]

Why not he couldn't be much worst than Samson.

[lollygagger8]

I trust McGylnn in a cast @ Center more than a healthy Satele. <- he's that bad

 

Forget about the money you paid Satele. it's easy to see the O-Line is better w/o him in it........

 

 

The Colts had their two best rushing games of the season when Mike McGlynn slid over to center in place of the injured Samson Satele and Jeff Linkenbach started at guard. They rushed for 184 yards at San Francisco and 157 yards the following week at Jacksonville. That seems like a long shot at the moment because McGlynn is wearing a cast on his fractured right thumb. 

[Valpo2004]

I have issue if #2 is what the coaches really think.  Game film has to be taken as a higher rating than what

happens in practice.  You can be a practice guru, but if you're a deer in the headlights (on a consistent

basis - say 3 games) come opening whistle then you'll be riding the pine until someone gets injured.

I, obviously, don't coach a pro team, but to think that practice rates higher than a game is just insane.  I really hope

this is not what Chuck and Pep think.

 

True but if you are getting spanked in practice a lot, it's not very likely that you are gonna show up and do well come game time.  

[GoColts8818]

Why not he couldn't be much worst than Samson.

he could be. Granted I don't think Satele is playing well at all but just because he isn't and fans don't like him doesn't mean the guy on the bench must be better or at least not be worse. He could very well be worse which is why he's not out there in the first place.

[Hoosier]

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[YOUR GM]

I've been saying our staff is stubborn from the very beginning of the year when they were set on keeping McGlynn in as a starting guard and trading Shipley away despite him outplaying Satele last year. Something isn't right, and I don't know what these 2 guys are selling our coaching staff and GM but they continue to buy it every week. I think Satele starting is more of a pride thing with Grigson, wanting to get his money's worth out of that signing. McGlynn might just be the benefactor of extreme favoritism. He was scouted by Grigson and might actually be friends with him off the field. Who knows?

 

This is all just me speculating, and is in no way me stating it as fact. Whatever the reason, these 2 players are immuned to being held accountable for their play on the field. More tenured and more accomplished players have been benched for less, on other teams. There is a flaw in this regimes pecking order and the way they evaluate talent. We've given up valuable picks and overpaid for subpar players this year, all while ignoring the main flaws with the team, at least on offense. That's not good at all, and it tells me that we might see this trend continue with other bad players that we've acquired and paid significant contracts to or used high draft picks on 

[Smonroe]

If we wanted another lineman, we had the cap space to add one. I think we were fine with the additions we made. I don't like Satele, and I don't like McGlynn at RG (he's better at C), but I think the team was mostly set on starting them. 

 

The Titans are realizing they way overpaid for Andy Livitre.  A lot of people here wanted him.  I'd say I'm happy with Thomas, but let's face it.  We overpaid for him considering his body of work.  It may be a good deal in the future.  Same with Bradshaw.

 

IMO, it's best to build the line up through the draft.  We have to hope Holmes works out soon and we find a decent G next year.

[Smonroe]

I've been saying our staff is stubborn from the very beginning of the year when they were set on keeping McGlynn in as a starting guard and trading Shipley away despite him outplaying Satele last year. Something isn't right, and I don't know what these 2 guys are selling our coaching staff and GM but they continue to buy it every week. I think Satele starting is more of a pride thing with Grigson, wanting to get his money's worth out of that signing. McGlynn might just be the benefactor of extreme favoritism. He was scouted by Grigson and might actually be friends with him off the field. Who knows?

 

This is all just me speculating, and is in no way me stating it as fact. Whatever the reason, these 2 players are immuned to being held accountable for their play on the field. More tenured and more accomplished players have been benched for less, on other teams. There is a flaw in this regimes pecking order and the way they evaluate talent. We've given up valuable picks and overpaid for subpar players this year, all while ignoring the main flaws with the team, at least on offense. That's not good at all, and it tells me that we might see this trend continue with other bad players that we've acquired and paid significant contracts to or used high draft picks on 

 

Who do you suggest should replace them?

[YOUR GM]

Who do you suggest should replace them?

 

 

Reitz at LG, Thornton slid over to RG, McGlynn starting at C for now. Shipley should've been retained over Satele, and starting. 

[Dustin]

Reitz at LG, Thornton slid over to RG, McGlynn starting at C for now. Shipley should've been retained over Satele, and starting. 

 

Shipley is playing worse than Satele is over in Baltimore.

[Tark The Shark]

As much as we want to change it, they paid Satele some big money to start, so I guess they think he will be ok for the long run.

 

But, in reality, he has been bad from day one and it has shown. It shows especially when he is out how good we do when McGlynn is moved to center and Link is moved to guard.

 

And i remember when we bashed Link incessantly when he was RT.

[Imped]

Looking back @ the 49ers game, it seems almost impossible we ran the ball that well. Everything clicked and the 9ers were destroyed.

 

Comparing that game to last week's is astonishing. 

[OffensivelyPC]

Looking back @ the 49ers game, it seems almost impossible we ran the ball that well. Everything clicked and the 9ers were destroyed.

 

Comparing that game to last week's is astonishing. 

Well we had a different set up that game.  Remember our "makeshift" line against the 49ers that everyone was talking about?  We had to rearrange our lineup because Satele was injured so it looked like this:

 

Castonzo, Thorton, McGlynn, Linkenback, Cherilus

 

When Satele has been in (since Donald Thomas' injury), it has looked like this:

 

Castonzo, Thorton, Satele, McGlynn, Cherilus

 

This latter lineup is the one that has been getting crushed, and I'm not sure why we keep going back to it.  But our coaching staff insists upon it for whatever reason.

[chrisfarley]

I think we have all tried to break down the film of our starting offensive line's transgressions, therefore, who do you all think is the worst player on the offensive line?  If we could rate them 1 being the worst on down in descending order, that would be good.  We can include the reserves as well.

[Superman]

The Titans are realizing they way overpaid for Andy Livitre.  A lot of people here wanted him.  I'd say I'm happy with Thomas, but let's face it.  We overpaid for him considering his body of work.  It may be a good deal in the future.  Same with Bradshaw.

 

IMO, it's best to build the line up through the draft.  We have to hope Holmes works out soon and we find a decent G next year.

 

Yeah, we would have never paid him that money if we knew he was going to get hurt... ???

 

I don't think that's how you grade a signing or acquisition. By no means do I think Thomas' contract is too high, but I don't fault our front office for him getting hurt. I don't agree that we overpaid for him.

 

Bradshaw, I think we took a calculated risk. Small contract (even smaller because he's not going to hit most of his incentives) for a veteran with injury concerns. He got hurt, now we don't have him, but again, his contract made sense. I'm more prone to point a finger at the front office for Bradshaw because there were red flags, but again, his contract isn't an issue.

 

To me, saying we overpaid means we might have been able to get a similar player for less money, or a better player for the same money. I might say that about Greg Toler, because we could have had Brent Grimes. But I'm not worried about Toler's contract.

[SkyBane]

I think we have all tried to break down the film of our starting offensive line's transgressions, therefore, who do you all think is the worst player on the offensive line? If we could rate them 1 being the worst on down in descending order, that would be good. We can include the reserves as well.

No need to rate them, the problem is blatantly obvious. Samson Satele ( C), Mike McGlynn (RG).

[jameszeigler834]

he could be. Granted I don't think Satele is playing well at all but just because he isn't and fans don't like him doesn't mean the guy on the bench must be better or at least not be worse. He could very well be worse which is why he's not out there in the first place.

Ya but you are never going to know unless he is given a chance.

[dudeski]

5.Luck using his built in checkdown and underneath routes more (I watch the All 22 Film...He is terrible at that)

dont need all 22 to see that

[NewColtsFan]

I understand the OP's position about being disappointed.     But I'd like to offer a different way to look at it....

 

Pagano is a players coach.   He's going to back his people as best as he can in public.    

 

So, there has to be a good reason why he's not putting Holmes in.   Has to be.    We can all see there's clearly a need to give the kid a shot.    But for whatever reason,  Pagano won't.

 

So,  I'm assuming there's a good reason.    And I'm further assuming he's got an an even better reason to keep it inside the locker-room.    That's what a players coach and one who is sensitive and respectful of things getting out of control quickly will do.

 

So, Pagano gets the benefit of the doubt from me......

[Dustin]

I think we have all tried to break down the film of our starting offensive line's transgressions, therefore, who do you all think is the worst player on the offensive line?  If we could rate them 1 being the worst on down in descending order, that would be good.  We can include the reserves as well.

 

Best to worst:

 

Cherilus

Castanzo

Satele

Thornton 

McGlynn

[Jay Kirk]

Best to worst:

 

Cherilus

Castanzo

Satele

Thornton 

McGlynn

Would agree except insert McGlynn at # 3 playing center and Satele is a zero totally incompetent IMO reason being he doesn't make adjustment and proper calls on the line.Think Mc does it 10 times better

[dgambill]

I think you answered your own question. You have to admit that gap is like the Grand Canyon.

Exactly....so perfect. One has to wonder where people get this supposed information about our backups (especially those that haven't even played) that makes them better than the starters the coach has watched all year play. We may have plenty of holes on this team that need filled but I trust the coaches to make the right choices....we've seen Trent get sat many times in favor of giving Donald more time so this isn't about just sticking with a starter for the sake of it. We will make changes if its the right thing for the offense. I would fully expect Holmes to play if he was better. We aren't letting Luck get creamed just to see how many licks it takes to get to the center of him.

[Smonroe]

Yeah, we would have never paid him that money if we knew he was going to get hurt... ???

 

I don't think that's how you grade a signing or acquisition. By no means do I think Thomas' contract is too high, but I don't fault our front office for him getting hurt. I don't agree that we overpaid for him.

 

Bradshaw, I think we took a calculated risk. Small contract (even smaller because he's not going to hit most of his incentives) for a veteran with injury concerns. He got hurt, now we don't have him, but again, his contract made sense. I'm more prone to point a finger at the front office for Bradshaw because there were red flags, but again, his contract isn't an issue.

 

To me, saying we overpaid means we might have been able to get a similar player for less money, or a better player for the same money. I might say that about Greg Toler, because we could have had Brent Grimes. But I'm not worried about Toler's contract.

I didn't make that statement as a judgement, I like the acquisition. I stated it as a fact. Of course injuries happen, they're part of the risk for every player. I'm simply saying that on a pure financial evaluation we overpaid for both of them.

I'm not saying they were bad moves. But they were both very expensive on a per game basis.

We have that pin for player salaries. If you divide players salary by games played it gives you their real cost to the team. No judgement, just the facts, ma'am.

[Smonroe]

Reitz at LG, Thornton slid over to RG, McGlynn starting at C for now. Shipley should've been retained over Satele, and starting.

Your opinion, and you're welcome to it. Please see post #77, I agree with him.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I don't know all the answers either, of course, but the head coach has to be a politician to a certain extent. Let's say Holmes wasn't catching on just yet, should he say that? I don't think so.

 

As for throwing Holmes in, I'm not sure that's the best bet. If I had my way, I'd bench Satele and play McGlynn at center, putting either Reitz or Linkenbach at guard, opposite of Thornton. Holmes isn't even on the radar just yet.

This is correct, They are going with experience & to me all the Holmes is ready stuff just tells me that he probably isn't! I just wonder will he ever be?