There ARE Great Teams, But No Great Coaches

[King Colt]

Name one team with lousy players that were champions because they had a great coach. You can't. Yesterday ESPN ahd the five best current coaches and I got to thinking whay are they good. Because the players execute!!!. Was the historic turnaround by last years Colts more the word of coaches or Luck and company? I do't care if you put Lombardie, Shula, Belichek and Chuck Knox together on the side line, if they don't have coachable, talented players they will lose every game.

[Dustin]

Early 2000's 49ers before Harbaugh: 46-82

Harbaugh Era: 24-7-1, 2 NFCCG Appearances, 1 Super Bowl Appearance.

Coaches make an impact.

[chad72]

You need both. It is not often that you see a 17th round draft pick become a HOF player with a ton of intangibles and his talent improving as the years went by. I am talking about Bart Starr and Vince Lombardi.

 

Look at the recent Eagles "dream" team and all the good teams on paper that were assembled, the coaches do matter in maximizing the talent they have on the roster. Jeff Fisher constantly overachieved with his less talented Titans teams and might be on his way to do so with the Rams team too.

 

Most of the same talent did nothing with Mike Singletary as coach while they realized their potential with Jim Harbaugh as coach. Yep, coaching does matter.

 

You do need a base of talented Johnnys and Joes but you also need the right coach who understands the team chemistry and gets the most out of his team.

[toadofsteel]

1990 giants. Backup QB, 34 year old oj anderson, aging everyone else. Beat joe montana, preventing three-peat, win sb against jim kelly's nigh unbeatable k-gun offense due to best game plan ever (and part of why belicheck is considered a defensive genius even today).

[bayone]

think colts run to SB 44 were the players not all the coaches that got fired after 1 more year

[amfootball]

Name one team with lousy players that were champions because they had a great coach. You can't. Yesterday ESPN ahd the five best current coaches and I got to thinking whay are they good. Because the players execute!!!. Was the historic turnaround by last years Colts more the word of coaches or Luck and company? I do't care if you put Lombardie, Shula, Belichek and Chuck Knox together on the side line, if they don't have coachable, talented players they will lose every game.

I mean no disrespect but you know little about athletics. I would imagine you have never played. Coaching, especially in football, is critical. What you see on the field, players executing are all a result of the hours and hours the coaching staff put all week to prepare the players not to mention the individual coaching the players receive to improve their game. You will never find one player - HoF or scrub - that will ever say his coaches did not help him get to where he is.

 

In fact, I need look no further than my eight year old daughter who has been playing soccer for three years. Just last year, my town hired an org to train the kids specifically on ball skills. The improvement in my daughters play is like night and day. Sure she has talent but the coaching is what brought it to the next level and hopefully if I am fortunate enough, she will continue to get good/great coaching to take her game even further.

[NewColtsFan]

Where is JSkinnz when we need him?

 

So, I'll say it.....

 

Oh, for the love of God!!      

[BOTT]

1990 giants. Backup QB, 34 year old oj anderson, aging everyone else. Beat joe montana, preventing three-peat, win sb against jim kelly's nigh unbeatable k-gun offense due to best game plan ever (and part of why belicheck is considered a defensive genius even today).

Poor Roger Craig

[LockeDown]

Poor Roger Craig

Roger Craig is one of my all time favorite players. Was a beast running marathons last time I read. If I am correct, it was his famous workout that Jerry rice adopted.

[SilentHill]

Name one team with lousy players that were champions because they had a great coach. You can't. Yesterday ESPN ahd the five best current coaches and I got to thinking whay are they good. Because the players execute!!!. Was the historic turnaround by last years Colts more the word of coaches or Luck and company? I do't care if you put Lombardie, Shula, Belichek and Chuck Knox together on the side line, if they don't have coachable, talented players they will lose every game.

 

You can't. Because you cant win with lousy players.

 

But, I can give you an example of the best team in football Losing because the coaching was horrible. See 2009 Colts.

Coaching is what MOTIVATES the players to be great, They don't just go out and do it on their own.

[King Colt]

I mean no disrespect but you know little about athletics. I would imagine you have never played. Coaching, especially in football, is critical. What you see on the field, players executing are all a result of the hours and hours the coaching staff put all week to prepare the players not to mention the individual coaching the players receive to improve their game. You will never find one player - HoF or scrub - that will ever say his coaches did not help him get to where he is.

 

In fact, I need look no further than my eight year old daughter who has been playing soccer for three years. Just last year, my town hired an org to train the kids specifically on ball skills. The improvement in my daughters play is like night and day. Sure she has talent but the coaching is what brought it to the next level and hopefully if I am fortunate enough, she will continue to get good/great coaching to take her game even further.

 

I know very little about athletics......never played? You are as smart as you are psychic. Read my post. Nowhere do I say one or the other is not critical but you failed to name any team that made it to the top with lousy players. Players eat the meat, coaches serve it. To those that posted one game where scrubs won c'mon, is that what I was pointing to? Ever hear the word "upset"?

[Superman]

Name one team with lousy players that were champions because they had a great coach. You can't. Yesterday ESPN ahd the five best current coaches and I got to thinking whay are they good. Because the players execute!!!. Was the historic turnaround by last years Colts more the word of coaches or Luck and company? I do't care if you put Lombardie, Shula, Belichek and Chuck Knox together on the side line, if they don't have coachable, talented players they will lose every game.

 

Since when is the definition of a great coach "someone who wins a championship with lousy players"?

 

This is a false premise. Does not compute.

[-JJ-]

Since when is the definition of a great coach "someone who wins a championship with lousy players"?

 

This is a false premise. Does not compute.

cannot compute <smoke> cannot compute <smoke> <fiz>

I will say coaches make a big diff in football. Baseball they make a diff in about 7-8 games a year with a call here and there.(bunt sacrifice etc)

[Superman]

cannot compute <smoke> cannot compute <smoke> <fiz>

I will say coaches make a big diff in football. Baseball they make a diff in about 7-8 games a year with a call here and there.(bunt sacrifice etc)

 

Especially when you consider how many teams with good talent don't win, playoffs or otherwise. Someone already mentioned the immediate difference Jim Harbaugh had on the Niners. 

[jvan1973]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5hfYJsQAhl0

Name one team with lousy players that were champions because they had a great coach. You can't. Yesterday ESPN ahd the five best current coaches and I got to thinking whay are they good. Because the players execute!!!. Was the historic turnaround by last years Colts more the word of coaches or Luck and company? I do't care if you put Lombardie, Shula, Belichek and Chuck Knox together on the side line, if they don't have coachable, talented players they will lose every game.

[amfootball]

 

I mean no disrespect but you know little about athletics. I would imagine you have never played. Coaching, especially in football, is critical. What you see on the field, players executing are all a result of the hours and hours the coaching staff put all week to prepare the players not to mention the individual coaching the players receive to improve their game. You will never find one player - HoF or scrub - that will ever say his coaches did not help him get to where he is.

 

In fact, I need look no further than my eight year old daughter who has been playing soccer for three years. Just last year, my town hired an org to train the kids specifically on ball skills. The improvement in my daughters play is like night and day. Sure she has talent but the coaching is what brought it to the next level and hopefully if I am fortunate enough, she will continue to get good/great coaching to take her game even further.

 

I know very little about athletics......never played? You are as smart as you are psychic. Read my post. Nowhere do I say one or the other is not critical but you failed to name any team that made it to the top with lousy players. Players eat the meat, coaches serve it. To those that posted one game where scrubs won c'mon, is that what I was pointing to? Ever hear the word "upset"?

 

The Pats dynasty of the '00s is largely attributed to Belichick and his coaching. If you look at those Pats rosters compared to the dynastic teams of the Steelers (70s), Niners (80's) and Cowboys (90s), you will see a huge drop off in talent. Even Brady for as great as he has become was a sixth round pick back then ...

[21isSuperman]

Dungy's Tampa teams never went very far in the playoffs, but Gruden took them to the Super Bowl in his first year with Brad Johnson at QB

[dynasty13]

Coaches win games, players lose games, and officials ruin games

[21isSuperman]

And don't forget that when you have a guy like Belichick as your coach and he has as much power as Belichick does, he will build that team.  So the great coach builds the great team

[JoKeR]

Where is JSkinnz when we need him?

 

So, I'll say it.....

 

Oh, for the love of God!!      

Vintage jskinnz^ or just " good god"

[HtownColt]

Takes a great coach to teach the players, turn lousy players into good players and good players into great players. Coaches teach their technique, scheme, philosophies, and put these players in favorable positions to make plays. And constantly grinding to find ways to attack offenses and defenses in new ways. Talent only gets you so far. Coaches just don't throw out their best starting lineups and say Go win me this game off your talent alone, great coaches continuously have great preparation and make great adjustments week in and week out and during games.

And OP says "Because they excute", what do you think the players are executing? They are excuting the coaches gameplan, scheme and preparations the coach installed that whole week of practice.

[Andy]

Um... ok.

 

There are countless examples of coaches being great with subpar teams. 

 

This thread deserves a thumbs down

[John Dee]

Actually IMO today's NFL with FA and cap issues coaching is at an all time high.    IF a coach cannot adapt on the run and coach up young players that are here one year and gone the next teams do not sustain. 

 

I think there are a lot of really great coaches in the NFL.

Name one team with lousy players that were champions because they had a great coach. You can't. Yesterday ESPN ahd the five best current coaches and I got to thinking whay are they good. Because the players execute!!!. Was the historic turnaround by last years Colts more the word of coaches or Luck and company? I do't care if you put Lombardie, Shula, Belichek and Chuck Knox together on the side line, if they don't have coachable, talented players they will lose every game.

[Buck Showalter]

Actually IMO today's NFL with FA and cap issues coaching is at an all time high.    IF a coach cannot adapt on the run and coach up young players that are here one year and gone the next teams do not sustain. 

 

I think there are a lot of really great coaches in the NFL.

I think that philosophy of adapting on the fly, goes for GM's too...

Ahem... Polian... Ahem...

[The Old Crow]

Name one team with lousy players that were champions because they had a great coach. You can't. Yesterday ESPN ahd the five best current coaches and I got to thinking whay are they good. Because the players execute!!!. Was the historic turnaround by last years Colts more the word of coaches or Luck and company? I do't care if you put Lombardie, Shula, Belichek and Chuck Knox together on the side line, if they don't have coachable, talented players they will lose every game.

[The Old Crow]

How about the 1969 jets. Mediocre team with great coach weeb Eubank.

[Hans Moleman]

Ever wonder why it's easier than ever for teams to turn around?

 

It's because the talent gap really isn't that large between bad teams and playoff teams. Coaching is the difference. The talent level is not 100% equal of course, but the margin of victory usually comes down to 3 things: coaching, injuries, and the random breaks going your way. Of those 3, coaching is the only direct, controllable way to impact a game. The rest is just hoping the chips fall your way. 

 

Because of how much of football is just based on chance, in the short run, there will be aberrations where bad coaches will win or good coaches will lose. Theoretically, they would balance out in the long run, but patience isn't something that exists in the NFL anymore. 

 

Still, even if a coach can't always overcome losing based on chance or being at a talent disadvantage, I'd argue that coaches are more important now than ever in an era of talent parity (more or less) and roster turnover that's still sky-high. Finding a great one is still the best way to build a winner. 

[TAPLOOK]

Without good coaching a team will never win consistently.

[Valpo2004]

Early 2000's 49ers before Harbaugh: 46-82

Harbaugh Era: 24-7-1, 2 NFCCG Appearances, 1 Super Bowl Appearance.

Coaches make an impact.

 

Exactly, it doesn't matter who is coach, he can't make lousy players into World Champs.  

 

But there are a lot of examples of teams with plenty of talent who arn't living up to their potential because they have bad coaches.    

 

2010 49ers are 6 - 10 with Mike Singletary and everyone wants to get rid of Alex Smith.

 

One year later in 2011 they are 13 - 3 WITH Alex Smith at QB.  

 

Jim Harbaugh turned Alex Smith from a below average QB into average to above average QB.    

[SilentHill]

Jim Harbaugh turned Alex Smith from a below average QB into average to above average QB.    

 

Not true, he didn't do anything to Alex Smith except give him the tools he needed to succeed.

[Dustin]

Not true, he didn't do anything to Alex Smith except give him the tools he needed to succeed.

 

What tools? Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, and that O-line were there before Harbaugh was.

[SilentHill]

What tools? Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, and that O-line were there before Harbaugh was.

 

The tools that didn't require him to run an offense he wasn't capable of.

[Dustin]

The tools that didn't require him to run an offense he wasn't capable of.

 

So basically an offense that didn't make him throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. That's all on Harbaugh/Roman and their system.

[John Dee]

Exactly, it doesn't matter who is coach, he can't make lousy players into World Champs.  

 

But there are a lot of examples of teams with plenty of talent who arn't living up to their potential because they have bad coaches.    

 

2010 49ers are 6 - 10 with Mike Singletary and everyone wants to get rid of Alex Smith.

 

One year later in 2011 they are 13 - 3 WITH Alex Smith at QB.  

 

Jim Harbaugh turned Alex Smith from a below average QB into average to above average QB.    

ummm   what side of teh argument are U arguing for?   Because yiou just made a case for "good coaching" getting things DONE.

[John Dee]

Alex Smith had the second best passer rating in the NFL when he got hurt.    

 

Harbaugh thought he could get some upside with Kap...     Who knows what would have happened.    Alex S did have SF in the NFCCG LAST SEASON.... 

 

Singletary's Forty Nivers "underachieved" ...    a GREAT coach came in and is getting it out of them.

 

Coaching matters more in the NFL than any other sport.

What tools? Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, and that O-line were there before Harbaugh was.

[-JJ-]

I'd say Bill Parcells can turn a team around....though coaching.

As Vince and a dozen other great ones. Makes all the difference in the world with football-night and day. Even ol' Marty... even if he did get too stubborn with Martyball. Perennial winner

[Fx Stryker]

How about the 1969 jets. Mediocre team with great coach weeb Eubank.

I wonder what it was like going against your old championship team. You never hear about Weeb when it comes to the best coaches for some reason. Only guy to get it done in a three championships; NFL, AFL, Super bowl.

[SilentHill]

So basically an offense that didn't make him throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. That's all on Harbaugh/Roman and their system.

 

Yup,

[John Dee]

Right On..  I am a Tuna and Marty supporter.   They just WIN.    No matter where they are asked to do it.

 

 

I'd say Bill Parcells can turn a team around....though coaching.
As Vince and a dozen other great ones. Makes all the difference in the world with football-night and day. Even ol' Marty... even if he did get too stubborn with Martyball. Perennial winner

[jvan1973]

Right On.. I am a Tuna and Marty supporter. They just WIN. No matter where they are asked to do it.

except in the playoffs in Martys case