PFW: On Arians/Luck/Offensive System....

[NewColtsFan]

Nice story from Pro Football Weekly....

 

Glowing comments from Arians on Luck....

 

Of most interest to me is the last paragraph....

 

Where PFW say the Colts will do everything they can to keep Arians (no surprise)...   but then add, that should Arians leave they will try to replace him with someone who will run the same system.

 

The story is an easy read.....

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2013/01/12/arians-luck-made-plays-manning-roethlisberger-didn

[JoKeR]

Who runs the same system? Seems kinda one of a kind to me.

[vinatierifan4]

Mid season no one wanted Airans, now that he's getting attention everyone wants to keep him, make up your mind people

[BOTT]

Read that the other day. To be fair it said similar offensive philosophy....lots of wiggle room in that statement

[GoColts8818]

Who were Arians poistion coaches in Pittsburgh?  It might be one of his assistants from there. 

[21isSuperman]

It would be nice to have a similar system, but it's not required, in my opinion.  I've really come to like Arians' system.  But Luck is incredibly intelligent, so I have full confidence that he would adapt and find success in another system.

[unitaswestand]

I hope, if Arians leaves, they don't run the same system.  Luck will get killed and it will always be hit and miss offensively.

[TKnight24]

I have no problem with Luck learning a NEW Offense now that I thought it over. It's the rest of the team that bothers me. Remember Luck was the 1st one to fully learn Arians offense. Idk, we'll see what happens

[dw49]

I have no problem with Luck learning a NEW Offense now that I thought it over. It's the rest of the team that bothers me. Remember Luck was the 1st one to fully learn Arians offense. Idk, we'll see what happens

 

 

He was the one that missed all the mini camps and the 1st one to learn the offense. Crazy...

[TKnight24]

He was the one that missed all the mini camps and the 1st one to learn the offense. Crazy...

Exactly. It's unheard of

[SteelCityColt]

If BA does stay, and we find some semblance of an O line it would be interesting to see how our take on the system changes. I've been one of its critics with it's unnecessary exposure of Luck to hits, though I do accept that's somewhat Andrew's own doing in refusing at times to take a check down/throw it away. 

 

However with the skill positions having had a year to get the playbook down, build some rapport and chemistry, it could be deadly if Luck is given time to throw.

 

If BA does go though, I don't doubt Luck is capable of learning a new system at the same rate and who knows long term it could work out, but it will take time for others to adjust.  

[lollygagger8]

As a coach I think Arians is indeed awesome.

 

I'm still conflicted about his play calling though

[Tark The Shark]

I would like to get a offensive line first and see what Luck can do with the offensive system.

 

Big Ben had some very good statistical years when Arians had a good offensive line and a decent back in Mendenhall.

[Indyfan4life]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tark the shark" data-cid="391192"><p>I would like to get a offensive line first and see what Luck can do with the offensive system.<br /> <br />Big Ben had some very good statistical years when Arians had a good offensive line and a decent back in Mendenhall.</p></blockquote><br />I agree. We really started running the ball well at the end of the season with that makeshift oline, so I really want to see what Luck/Ballard/*insert 2ndRB into mix can do.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

I hope, if Arians leaves, they don't run the same system.  Luck will get killed and it will always be hit and miss offensively.

I'm with you. I'm fine with him staying for continuity, but if he leaves I would like to see a WCO or something that relies on quick, timing routes. I don't mind the long passes, but we just don't have the O line right now.

[Flash7]

 

I'm with you. I'm fine with him staying for continuity, but if he leaves I would like to see a WCO or something that relies on quick, timing routes. I don't mind the long passes, but we just don't have the O line right now.

Not to be snarky, but shouldn't we just fix the O-line and go with what's working so far?--Given that BA stays?

[GrizzColt]

I believe it was our wide open offense that got us into the playoffs.  Luck's ability to throw a pass with a guy hanging around his neck  was the key.  Think about this.  If Arians told him to check down whenever he gets pressure, heck, he'd be checking down every play and defenses would start pressing the line.  Defenses knew that Luck would air it out and that's why they couldn't cheat up on him.  It goes back to what some of us are saying.  Get him a good line and this offense will be incredible.

[Flash7]

I think that we have to agree that as a fan, we want to see perfection from our football team, and there is no such thing as perfection in football, especially on offense and at the QB position which is so diverse. A good completion percentage is somewhere in the mid-to-upper 60's, meaning that 30-35% of the time, the pass is incomplete. I wouldn't mind seeing Luck completing 65% of his passes (vast improvement from 54% completion) while playing in BA's high-flying and exciting offense. This of course, means that our O-line issues have to be resolved.

Luck has shown that he can be deadly in this type of offense and I'd rather have a deadly and feared offense than just an efficient offense. The Niners with Alex Smith were efficient, but boring.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

Not to be snarky, but shouldn't we just fix the O-line and go with what's working so far?--Given that BA stays?

I'm saying IF he leaves, then change the offense.

[GoodLuck]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9d9nk9sWw1r1nnogo1_400.jpg

Luck can improve accuracy if he changed his grip. Trust me

[BOTT]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9d9nk9sWw1r1nnogo1_400.jpg'>http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9d9nk9sWw1r1nnogo1_400.jpg

Luck can improve accuracy if he changed his grip. Trust me

Ok Obi Wan

[NewColtsFan]

I would like to get a offensive line first and see what Luck can do with the offensive system.

 

Big Ben had some very good statistical years when Arians had a good offensive line and a decent back in Mendenhall.

 

For my money, Tark the Shark comes closest to my view of things....

 

I love Arians the Head Coach.   I have not been wild about Arians the OC.   

 

That said, I've taken a look at Roethlisburger's numbers, and he's typically thrown for 60 to 66% completions in the Arians system.    So, I think it's only fair to see what Luck can do with this system when he's got a good OL to work with.   I saw what he did with a very good college O-line and it was a thing of beauty.

 

I think Arians has earned the patience to see what his offense will look like when he's got all the pieces he needs....   I'm trusting Grigson to sign/draft the OL Arians needs.    He sure didn't have it this year.    Hopefully next year looks much, much better.

 

After that,  perhaps then we'll have a better read on the system and Arians' style...

[Superman]

For my money, Tark the Shark comes closest to my view of things....

 

I love Arians the Head Coach.   I have not been wild about Arians the OC.   

 

That said, I've taken a look at Roethlisburger's numbers, and he's typically thrown for 60 to 66% completions in the Arians system.    So, I think it's only fair to see what Luck can do with this system when he's got a good OL to work with.   I saw what he did with a very good college O-line and it was a thing of beauty.

 

I think Arians has earned the patience to see what his offense will look like when he's got all the pieces he needs....   I'm trusting Grigson to sign/draft the OL Arians needs.    He sure didn't have it this year.    Hopefully next year looks much, much better.

 

After that,  perhaps then we'll have a better read on the system and Arians' style...

 

He also takes 40-50 sacks a year, on only about 450 attempts.

 

I agree with everyone else that we need to improve the offensive line, and no matter what your system is, better protection leads to improved efficiency from the quarterback. But I don't think that's a reason to ignore the shortcomings of the system itself.

 

The prevailing philosophy of Arians' offense is to stress a defense vertically, which is why the yards/attempt are always so impressive. And there are obviously short options on most passing plays, although some people like to state that all the receivers are 10-15 yards downfield every play. But the thing about the short options is that they are often the 3rd or 4th read. So the real criticism is that the routes and options take longer to develop, which puts more stress on your protections. And that's for routine plays with four and five players out in patterns. If we go max protect, the routes can take even longer to develop.

 

If the defense makes a mistake in coverage, or if you get good protection, there's a ton of big play potential. But you don't always get good protection (watching football around the league the past couple of years has impressed upon me how little time the typical quarterback has to make decisions). And you can't rely on the defense to blow a coverage.

 

It would be awesome if Arians' system would be tweaked to add more quick hitting options, high percentage pass plays that take pressure off of the offensive line. We could still place a premium on stressing the defense vertically, but we could also play to the strengths of the team and mask some of the deficiencies when necessary.

 

Like you, I appreciate Arians as a head coach much more than I appreciate his offense or his play calling. I'm not interested in forcing him out, but I think it would be a good thing if we got a new set of eyes on this offense and made some adjustments. On the other hand, if keeping Arians forces the front office to give more attention to the line play, then it's a good thing.

 

I can't wait until free agency.

[GoodLuck]

I would rather see Luck in an offense with more short passes, bootlegs and maybe a lil read option. Who does Seattle have on their staff to help?

[BOTT]

I would rather see Luck in an offense with more short passes, bootlegs and maybe a lil read option. Who does Seattle have on their staff to help?

Yeah. I will pass on the read option

[GoColts00]

A lot of Steelers fans were ticked at Arians for using a zone-blocking O-Line while simultaneously trying to throw deep passes often. That's why Big Ben was getting hit so much. Our O-Line this season was Not good, but if Arians does stay and tries to use zone-blocking while throwing deep routes then Luck is gonna continue to get hit often as well. If the O-Line is changed to man-blocking, using bigger personnel, then Pass protection becomes better (usually). man-blocking schemes also help the Run game.

[BOTT]

A lot of Steelers fans were ticked at Arians for using a zone-blocking O-Line while simultaneously trying to throw deep passes often. That's why Big Ben was getting hit so much. Our O-Line this season was Not good, but if Arians does stay and tries to use zone-blocking while throwing deep routes then Luck is gonna continue to get hit often as well. If the O-Line is changed to man-blocking, using bigger personnel, then Pass protection becomes better (usually). man-blocking schemes also help the Run game.

The steelers use a man blocking scheme...and so do the colts

[NewColtsFan]

He also takes 40-50 sacks a year, on only about 450 attempts.

 

I agree with everyone else that we need to improve the offensive line, and no matter what your system is, better protection leads to improved efficiency from the quarterback. But I don't think that's a reason to ignore the shortcomings of the system itself.

 

The prevailing philosophy of Arians' offense is to stress a defense vertically, which is why the yards/attempt are always so impressive. And there are obviously short options on most passing plays, although some people like to state that all the receivers are 10-15 yards downfield every play. But the thing about the short options is that they are often the 3rd or 4th read. So the real criticism is that the routes and options take longer to develop, which puts more stress on your protections. And that's for routine plays with four and five players out in patterns. If we go max protect, the routes can take even longer to develop.

 

If the defense makes a mistake in coverage, or if you get good protection, there's a ton of big play potential. But you don't always get good protection (watching football around the league the past couple of years has impressed upon me how little time the typical quarterback has to make decisions). And you can't rely on the defense to blow a coverage.

 

It would be awesome if Arians' system would be tweaked to add more quick hitting options, high percentage pass plays that take pressure off of the offensive line. We could still place a premium on stressing the defense vertically, but we could also play to the strengths of the team and mask some of the deficiencies when necessary.

 

Like you, I appreciate Arians as a head coach much more than I appreciate his offense or his play calling. I'm not interested in forcing him out, but I think it would be a good thing if we got a new set of eyes on this offense and made some adjustments. On the other hand, if keeping Arians forces the front office to give more attention to the line play, then it's a good thing.

 

I can't wait until free agency.

 

 

Boy....    that was very, very nicely said, Super....    very nice.

 

I'm not sure how much of the Arians' system leads to 40-50 sacks and how much of that is Roethlisburger always trying to make a play.  Of course, Andrew does seem to have some of that same DNA. 

 

I disagree with nothing that you said.   And I've recently stated that I hope Pagano, having watched games live from above will encourage Arians to do just that -- incorporate more short routes into the system -- Luck will LOVE those.

 

But, the other day I linked  Pro Football Weekly story saying their sources say that should Arians leave that Grigson will look for someone to continue with his system instead of bringing in the WCO, which I clearly prefer.    So, if it's not going to happen as I hope,  then I've got to give the system the benefit of the doubt by assuming/hoping that a much better OL will lead to much better results.

 

I've got no choice.    The baby has been born.  I may not find him beautiful, but he's my baby so I've got to make the best of it, if you follow my tortured metaphor.....      

[throwing BBZ]

Luck needs to learn to read a defense, find the single coverage, and hit the guy.

That is hard to do when you are ALWAYS throwing behind the guy.

Can you believe how badly he missed Reggie near the goal line against the Ravens? A terrible throw.

Andrew may have learned the playbook fast, but it doesn`t mean he was able to execute the plays at such a high level.

He had over 80 incompletions throwing to Reggie, who may have the best hands in the game.

[Superman]

Boy.... that was very, very nicely said, Super.... very nice.

I'm not sure how much of the Arians' system leads to 40-50 sacks and how much of that is Roethlisburger always trying to make a play. Of course, Andrew does seem to have some of that same DNA.

I disagree with nothing that you said. And I've recently stated that I hope Pagano, having watched games live from above will encourage Arians to do just that -- incorporate more short routes into the system -- Luck will LOVE those.

But, the other day I linked Pro Football Weekly story saying their sources say that should Arians leave that Grigson will look for someone to continue with his system instead of bringing in the WCO, which I clearly prefer. So, if it's not going to happen as I hope, then I've got to give the system the benefit of the doubt by assuming/hoping that a much better OL will lead to much better results.

I've got no choice. The baby has been born. I may not find him beautiful, but he's my baby so I've got to make the best of it, if you follow my tortured metaphor.....

Good point about Ben's holding on to the ball, but I think that ability to break free and make plays is something that Arians has come to rely on. He's often praised Luck's common traits to Ben.

I personally think there's more than one good NFL offense. There are plenty of positives to the WCO, but it's not the only way to improve efficiency. I'd be okay with a similar system to Arians', so long as we made the tweaks I talked about earlier, along with incorporating the backs in the passing game more.

[BOTT]

Boy....    that was very, very nicely said, Super....    very nice.

 

I'm not sure how much of the Arians' system leads to 40-50 sacks and how much of that is Roethlisburger always trying to make a play.  Of course, Andrew does seem to have some of that same DNA. 

 

I disagree with nothing that you said.   And I've recently stated that I hope Pagano, having watched games live from above will encourage Arians to do just that -- incorporate more short routes into the system -- Luck will LOVE those.

 

But, the other day I linked  Pro Football Weekly story saying their sources say that should Arians leave that Grigson will look for someone to continue with his system instead of bringing in the WCO, which I clearly prefer.    So, if it's not going to happen as I hope,  then I've got to give the system the benefit of the doubt by assuming/hoping that a much better OL will lead to much better results.

 

I've got no choice.    The baby has been born.  I may not find him beautiful, but he's my baby so I've got to make the best of it, if you follow my tortured metaphor.....      

Grigson said he would find someone with a similar philosophy.....that could be someone quite different. For example, Tom Moore and Arians have a similar philosophy, but are very different coordinators.