Dwight Freeney cut after today?

[coltsfanmilyman]

WOW. . . .the whole idea of cutting him makes no sense,. We have 0 depth for 1. Secondly we are going to cut Freeney a proven veteran of over 11 years. For Jerry Hughes. A player who has proven what exactly? He plays great in pre-season but that is so far it. Don't get me wrong I have high hopes for him as I do all Colts players but that doesn't make sense from a coaching standpoint. Lastly if we cut him we have an absurd cap hit of 15-19mil.

Again logical thinking should be applied to the situation.

As well its the bleacher report. They couldn't hit a broad side of a barn if they were standing IN the barn.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Not happening, the only way Freeney isn't on the team would be if he is traded!!

[Balzer40]

WOW. . . .the whole idea of cutting him makes no sense,. We have 0 depth for 1. Secondly we are going to cut Freeney a proven veteran of over 11 years. For Jerry Hughes. A player who has proven what exactly? He plays great in pre-season but that is so far it. Don't get me wrong I have high hopes for him as I do all Colts players but that doesn't make sense from a coaching standpoint. Lastly if we cut him we have an absurd cap hit of 15-19mil.

Again logical thinking should be applied to the situation.

As well its the bleacher report. They couldn't hit a broad side of a barn if they were standing IN the barn.

To say the Colts have zero depth behind Freeney is not at all true. It may not be who you, I, or anybody else wants, but the depth is there. I also don't think his cap hit would be that high. I think if they cut him they are only on the hook for 5 million of his salary.

[Joey McCoy]

wow....I haven't heard this yet...... what's the scoop?

[Hoosier]

I can totally see the logic behind a trade, if the coaching staff thinks at this point that he is just not going to work out in the 3-4 system.

If that was the case, it would make more sense to trade an (albeit aging) icon now, rather than letting him go at the end of the season and getting nothing in return.

I don't know what other teams' rosters and cap situations are like, but I would not be opposed to them trading Freeney to someone in exchange for a monster NT. Again, I don't know who. Just making an example. There have been plenty of NFL transactions more foolish than taking on Freeney's contract.

But, the concept that they would cut him now and get nothing in return and, I assume, add even more dead cap space is absurd.

[lollygagger8]

I hear $14m and the $19m......either way....that's a pretty steep bet to see if he can thrive or not in this defense.

[bahhummbug]

and trading him is going to be difficult given his contract. that's why he is going to get a one year try out in the new defense

even if we did trade him, we'd have scramble to spend the money from his contract. not sure the exact numbers, but there is a minimum each team must spend

dont have to trade him can just cut him and use 14 million to get o line and nt?

[Balzer40]

I can totally see the logic behind a trade, if the coaching staff thinks at this point that he is just not going to work out in the 3-4 system.

If that was the case, it would make more sense to trade an (albeit aging) icon now, rather than letting him go at the end of the season and getting nothing in return.

I don't know what other teams' rosters and cap situations are like, but I would not be opposed to them trading Freeney to someone in exchange for a monster NT. Again, I don't know who. Just making an example. There have been plenty of NFL transactions more foolish than taking on Freeney's contract.

But, the concept that they would cut him now and get nothing in return and, I assume, add even more dead cap space is absurd.

You do realize that would be absolutely impossible......right! With freeney's contract, we would almost have to throw in a late future pick just to get at best a 4th rd. pick in return. And even that would require a desperate team that felt they had no other options.

[fvantagio]

dont have to trade him can just cut him and use 14 million to get o line and nt?

Is there 14 mill worth of talent at NT and oline in the FA? I dont see any quality players left in FA at this stage. Might as well see what he can do in the new system. Worst case scenario is he struggles and is not resigned next year. Not a big deal considering the expectations heading into this year are low.

[krunk]

That article was nothing but an opinion post. It really had no facts that show how the organization itself is thinking

in terms of D Free. Nothing there suggests the colts themselves are thinking of cutting him. I have my doubts about him in the new defensive scheme, but if anybody is worth a look it's good ole number 93 I suppose!

My gut says we can get pressure on the qb without him, but we'll see.

[fbfanatic]

So, does it boil down to this? Is Freeney worth between 9-14 million this year...whatever the real number turns out to be? He is a fan favorite... including this fan, but if I were doing the paying....hmmmm.

It is a business, sort of... with maybe too much emotion in many decisions. What would you do?

[The Fish]

I wouldn't say there is no way this will happen, but the chances are very slim. many thought it was impossible we would let Manning go too, but I think we all know how that ended up.

That was different, and I was 100% sure we were going this direction after last seasons week 17 loss. If I had any second guesses it was the week before the release when Irsay was losing it, video of Peyton throwing surfaced from Duke, and this place was a mess. Good times.

They aren't going to down grade the D, especially since his contract is covered. It's totally possible that he goes next year though.

[jskinnz]

WOW. . . .the whole idea of cutting him makes no sense,. We have 0 depth for 1. Secondly we are going to cut Freeney a proven veteran of over 11 years. For Jerry Hughes. A player who has proven what exactly? He plays great in pre-season but that is so far it. Don't get me wrong I have high hopes for him as I do all Colts players but that doesn't make sense from a coaching standpoint. Lastly if we cut him we have an absurd cap hit of 15-19mil.

Again logical thinking should be applied to the situation.

As well its the bleacher report. They couldn't hit a broad side of a barn if they were standing IN the barn.

Personally I think Freeney is going nowhere. But the thought of cutting him is not nearly as irrational as you make it out to be. First off, on some level he is a fish out of water at OLB. Secondly, he is not only the highest paid Colt but he is the highest paid player in the league. If salary is not in line with performance, a reasonable conclusion is to release. There will be cap savings realized plus the actual dollars that Irsay does not have to pay.

[StewieG]

i disagree people can have impacts without making tackles/sacks.. I think he's been making a nice effort to support the run game and jesus you guys its pre-season... ya'll act like making the transition should be soooooo easy, like you yourself if you were a player (and im sure you probably havent played a down in your life) would come in and have an immediate impact...

get real. love my colts fans but stop trolling.. you're sitting on a computer, he's in the league... lets see what happens before you start thinking your mike mayock and know everything on here...

Man, and all this time I thought message boards was a place to state opinions. Thanks for setting us all straight.

[coltsfanmilyman]

To say the Colts have zero depth behind Freeney is not at all true. It may not be who you, I, or anybody else wants, but the depth is there. I also don't think his cap hit would be that high. I think if they cut him they are only on the hook for 5 million of his salary.

Okay then, do the colts have a player roster that would be a better replacement than Freeney is right now?

[StewieG]

Okay then is there a player on the colts roster that would be a better replacement than Freeney is right now?

It is just too early to even know this. Freeney has never really done anything during preseason.

We won't know if Freeney will work in this system til week 7 or 8. About halfway thru the year.

[The Fish]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120828/SPORTS03/120828061/Forbes-Dwight-Freeney-NFL-s-highest-paid-player-season

Far out, he is the higest paid player this year. It's odd to see guys get to the end of their contracts when the crazy money happens

[coltsfanmilyman]

Personally I think Freeney is going nowhere. But the thought of cutting him is not nearly as irrational as you make it out to be. First off, on some level he is a fish out of water at OLB. Secondly, he is not only the highest paid Colt but he is the highest paid player in the league. If salary is not in line with performance, a reasonable conclusion is to release. There will be cap savings realized plus the actual dollars that Irsay does not have to pay.

Agreed that he may be a "fish out of water" but isn't it a bit drastic to cut him with only 3 pre-season games under his belt and 1 off-season to acclimate to a completely new defensive scheme. Technically then with the line of reasoning that you are portraying; Manning should have been cut last year because he had no performance. Can you please provide me these numbers that would be saved if he were cut? Does the amount of money we can save really make you feel comfortable losing Freeney?

[coltsfanmilyman]

It is just too early to even know this. Freeney has never really done anything during preseason.

We won't know if Freeney will work in this system til week 7 or 8. About halfway thru the year.

Exactly so all this talk about cutting him IMO is ignorant to say the least. At least wait through half-way through the season to make an informed decision

[Mameluc]

I still think the idea the whole time in Grigs/Pagano was to make this kind like a try out year for freeney. IF he suceeds this year they try to resign him otherwise bye bye

[Superman]

Nate could do better than this. He lists four options, and none of them is an extension.

[FireJimCaldwell]

First of all let me again say how I detest bleacher report.

Secondly this is a complicated matter.

Facts:

Dwight Freeney is on the Colts books currently at 19,035,000 which includes a base salary of 14,035,000 and 5,000,000 from previous unamortized bonuses.

If he's on the Colts roster for week 1 that base salary is fully guaranteed.

Options

Releasing him:

Pros:

• Frees up 14,035,000 for the 2012 salary cap which any unused portion can be rolled over into 2013.
  

Cons:

• Lose another leader of the team.
  
• Lose a talented player.
  
• Could end up facing him twice a year if he chose to go to Tennessee/Jacksonville or a less likely destination Houston.
  

Result:

• This would free up Freeney to sign a free agent contract with ANY team.
  
• It would add 5 million more dollars to the dead cap space that is already approaching 40 million(which might be over 40 by the time the next round of cuts happens).
  
• It would also create 14 million in cap space.
  

Trading him now:

A straight up trade would be complicated due to the timing and not many teams being able to easily fit his 14,0350,000 base salary under the current 2012 salary cap. He could be afforded the right to seek a trade and could discuss an extension with a new team which should lower his 2012 cap #. Of course, Grigson and staff would have to receive compensation that they were comfortable with.

Pros:

• Frees up 14,035,000 for the 2012 salary cap which any unused portion can be rolled over into 2013.
  
• The team would receive some form of compensation which would likely be a draft pick in the 2013 draft. I wouldn't expect anything jaw-dropping.
  
• The Colts would have some form of say on where he ended up.
  

Cons:

• Lose another leader of the team.
  
• Lose a talented player.
  
• Could still end up seeing 93 bear down on Luck.
  

Result:

• The team would receive some form of compensation, and gain quite a bit of cap space assuming another player wasn't part of the trade. Again, I would not expect any huge ransom.
  
• It would add 5 million more dollars to the dead cap space that is already approaching 40million(which might be over 40 by the time the next round of cuts happens).
  
• It would also create 14 million in cap space.
  

Trading him during the season:

Again this is a more complicated scenario due to a team either having to likely extend him to fit him under the 2012 cap.

Each week that he is on the Colts roster will result in less cap savings that the Colts would receive. Here is a breakdown based on him being traded after week 1 through week 8. The Tuesday following Week 8 is the new trade deadline.

If he is proving not to be that much of a fit with Pagano's hybrid 3-4, then this becomes a viable option, even with the complications listed above.

The same pros and cons are involved , with the dead cap hit/savings being adjusted each week.

Extending him now:

Again, a complicated situation based on not fully knowing how he will perform in the Pagano hybrid 3-4.

Here are three hypothetical contracts and how it would affect the 2012 salary cap and what his cap #'s would look like in the future. Keep in mind that he and his agent would have to agree to them. Some might argue they are too low, some might argue they are too high.

An extension now is risky because it could create an even larger cap burden if he isn't a fit in the new system.

Extending him during the season:

The possible scenarios are too unpredictable to address with hypothetical examples. It would depend on when it occurred and how much, but there likely would be some cap savings/carry over in to 2013. That would be one of the main points of doing it along with locking 93 up for a few more years.

Status quo:

In my opinion this is the worst case scenario. If things remain as they are, then Freeney plays out his contract at the 19& change #. He becomes a free agent, and the 25 million dollars he's been paid over the past two years and that is actual cash, not inflated cap #'s. That 25 million dollars would not be utilized in an extension. One can argue that Chris Polian should have extended him last year so that the 25 million that will have been spent during 2011 & 2012 would have had a higher return on investment. Bill Polian set up Freeney's contract in that manner so that it could easily be extended to create cap space in 2011 and 2012. Maybe Bill or Irsay should have forced Chris' hand, but to me Freeney and the Colts should not be in this situation.

I believe that he has to be moved, or extended. Letting things play out would be a mistake.

Franchise Tag?

This is not really an option since it would mean paying him 120% of the $19,035,000 he is currently earning. He's simply not worth that and considering he would have just received 25 million cash for 2 years makes the thought of $22,840 cap hit completely absurd.

[Superman]

First of all let me again say how I detest bleacher report.

Just pointing out that this is a Dunlevy article. I hate BR also, but Dunlevy is more credible than your typical BR crap.

[coltsfanmilyman]

not gonna copy your post but great breakdown FJC! Thanks for the knowledge

[FireJimCaldwell]

Just pointing out that this is a Dunlevy article. I hate BR also, but Dunlevy is more credible than your typical BR crap.

Just a different shade of BigBlueshoe in my opinion.

With that said, I didn't read the article before posting my response, and not sure that I will, after the fact.

[HtownColt]

how are the Colts a better team without Freeney on the field? Freeney dictates pass protections that leaves one on one matchups for everybody else rushing the passer. if you cut him you add $5million more in dead money this year. money saved this year?its pointless when you have nobody to spend it on. this is a pointless topic at this point in time. now it was a serious topic right before the free agency period but not now. I just dont see how the Colts field a better team this year without Freeney on it

[TKnight24]

Never said we should Trade him. But I wish he would've done something this Pre-Season to see how he's adjusted to this. Everyone's saying he's a Veteran so he doesn't do anything. Mathis, Wayne, Bethea (Sort of) have ALL done something this Pre-Season to have an Impact.

I don't want to see Freeney to leave, but as long as he shows Production come Week 1.... He'll be fine. Then for the next 15 games after that, just play like he's been playing for the what past 10 years & I'm sure Grigson would love to re-sign him to a lesser contract since his career is winding down too

[GoColts8818]

I know OP said it was bleacher report off the start and said it in away we should take this with a grain of salt but I think bares repeating...

Bleacher Report = One of us making a post on here based on our opinion and calling it a blog and publishing it on a webpage trying to get it across like its news.

I really doubt we cut Dwight. With that said with the trade deadline pushed back if we don't get off to a great start (I am talking like 6-2 or 7-1 which i think is unlikely) it would not shock me if listen to trade offers especially if Dwight struggles to take to the 3-4 like looks to be doing in the pre-season and Hughes keeps playing like he has played in the pre-season.

[OJl]

Cutting Freeney at this point is foolish!

1. His cap hit already fits within the budget for this year. $14 million is a big savings but how does that help the team if that money's not being spent? Also, can you even give that saved cash to someone else who can help the team more than Dwight? No.

2. Cutting Freeney contradicts the message sent by the Vontae Davis trade. Giving up a potentially high 2nd round draft pick for a risky CB sent a clear message: We will make aggressive moves to win NOW! Cutting your best pass rusher undercuts your ability to win football games.

3. Who's going to replace him? I'm sure Grigson and Pagano have had the conversation. But they are smart guys and they will have asked that same simple question. Yes, Jerry Hughes has looked good in pre-season, but he's done NOTHING prior to this pre-season. And if Hughes is the starter and Freeney is gone, who do you have behind Hughes? Exactly.

4. Cutting Freeney now would be highly disrespectful. I know that Jim Irsay understands how important Dwight has been to the Colts since his arrival. Only Peyton has meant more. I know it's a business, but I don't think Irsay would allow Freeney to be cut at this point. Freeney's huge cap number was not a secret. If that cap number is the reason for releasing him, the professional thing to do would have been to let him go months ago so he can find a new team. The right thing to do is to let Freeney play out this year. If he's great, open the door for his return with a fair contract. If he's not great and Hughes shows he can play, allow Freeny to gracefully leave with his head held high for all of the great things he's accomplished as a Colt.

[Creekside]

Freeney is 32 (not old) and healthy. If it came down to adjusting the scheme or cutting him, I would hope Pagano would choose the former.

[Balzer40]

Okay then, do the colts have a player roster that would be a better replacement than Freeney is right now?

I don't know. Hughes has looked pretty good in preseason play, but that is just preseason. The fact is, the coaches have seen Freeney in practice every day and if they feel that Freeney is going to perform poorly this yr.(and if preseason is any indication, they very well might feel that way) then there is a chance they cut bait with him now. I doubt that they will, but there is a chance, however small that chance may be.

[Superman]

I know OP said it was bleacher report off the start and said it in away we should take this with a grain of salt but I think bares repeating...

Bleacher Report = One of us making a post on here based on our opinion and calling it a blog and publishing it on a webpage trying to get it across like its news.

I really doubt we cut Dwight. With that said with the trade deadline pushed back if we don't get off to a great start (I am talking like 6-2 or 7-1 which i think is unlikely) it would not shock me if listen to trade offers especially if Dwight struggles to take to the 3-4 like looks to be doing in the pre-season and Hughes keeps playing like he has played in the pre-season.

Ordinarily I agree on BR, but this is Nate Dunlevy. That doesn't make it any more likely to happen, just that it's not a complete hack with no knowledge of the way these things work.

[Balzer40]

Freeney is 32 (not old) and healthy. If it came down to adjusting the scheme or cutting him, I would hope Pagano would choose the former.

You do not adjust your entire scheme to accommodate one player, that is the epitome of foolishness.

[Gavin]

I'd simply trade him for a 5th round pick for a pass rusher 4-3 needy team. insert Jerry Hughes, we have plenty of depth at OLB (as it stands now) and even if Jerry doesnt work out then we are likely going to draft DE/OLB regardless early probably within the first 3 rounds. But we are keeping Freeney anyway so moot point, I hope he does great this season

[funktacious2]

I'd be shocked to see him gone.

[GoColts8818]

Ordinarily I agree on BR, but this is Nate Dunlevy. That doesn't make it any more likely to happen, just that it's not a complete hack with no knowledge of the way these things work.

Okay then I change it to a knowledgeable poster on here. I am sorry I've never been a big fan of Nate Dunlevy but I would agree he is better than most on bleacher report but again that's like saying Curtis Painter was better than Kerry Collins last year it's not saying a lot.

[ztboiler]

Status quo:

In my opinion this is the worst case scenario. If things remain as they are, then Freeney plays out his contract at the 19& change #. He becomes a free agent, and the 25 million dollars he's been paid over the past two years and that is actual cash, not inflated cap #'s. That 25 million dollars would not be utilized in an extension. One can argue that Chris Polian should have extended him last year so that the 25 million that will have been spent during 2011 & 2012 would have had a higher return on investment. Bill Polian set up Freeney's contract in that manner so that it could easily be extended to create cap space in 2011 and 2012. Maybe Bill or Irsay should have forced Chris' hand, but to me Freeney and the Colts should not be in this situation.

I believe that he has to be moved, or extended. Letting things play out would be a mistake.

Very clear cut stuff - you make it very easy to see why extending him now is the best option, if we are going to keep him in the fold for future years. The fact that we are still setting here on the status quo must therefore be powerful evidence that Grigson/Pagano are not convinced of how well he fits and are not willing to risk the investment for sake of it's benefits.

[Creekside]

You do not adjust your entire scheme to accommodate one player, that is the epitome of foolishness.

.....Pagano said from the beginning (in regards to Freeney and Mathis) that he would not try to force a square peg int o a round hole, and that it would be foolish not to put them in position to take advantage of what they do best. I agree with that. From what I understand about the scheme, there is great flexability. When I said adjust, I don't mean scrap the whole thing....

[HtownColt]

Never said we should Trade him. But I wish he would've done something this Pre-Season to see how he's adjusted to this. Everyone's saying he's a Veteran so he doesn't do anything. Mathis, Wayne, Bethea (Sort of) have ALL done something this Pre-Season to have an Impact.

I don't want to see Freeney to leave, but as long as he shows Production come Week 1.... He'll be fine. Then for the next 15 games after that, just play like he's been playing for the what past 10 years & I'm sure Grigson would love to re-sign him to a lesser contract since his career is winding down too

mathis has 1 tackle just like freeney

[TKnight24]

mathis has 1 tackle just like freeney

I'm saying you'll see Mathis hustling to the Ball. Freeney looks like he's just going through the Motions. I could be wrong, but this is just what I'm seeing