Culture Change

[ColtStrong2013]

https://www.google.com/amp/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/08/chester-rogers-on-colts-changes-is-this-what-a-real-organization-feels-like/amp/

 

It's a dig at Pagano to come public with these kind of comments, but shows what difference there already is in the organization... months before training camp which will really set the stage for this team under Ballard/Reich.

 

I always sensed there was a tense relationship between coaching staff and management, and that trickled down to the relationship between coaching and players, which led to a more relaxed locker room. That's not how a football locker room should ever feel. High energy. High competitiveness. It's been a long time coming. I hope you all are ready. 

[John Waylon]

Interesting. 

 

Very interesting. 

 

The players loved Pagano. They came in during the bye week after a win to keep practicing to get better. That’s not the behavior of a team who hates it’s coach or culture. 

 

I know we won’t get it, but I’d definitely like some elaboration on this quote. 

[MB-ColtsFan]

It's waaay too early to be talking about culture change, in my opinion.  Let's at least wait until camp is halfway done before evaluations are done.  Talk is only that.  Let's see the change on the field.

Remember "Let's Build The Monster"...

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Interesting. 

 

Very interesting. 

 

The players loved Pagano. They came in during the bye week after a win to keep practicing to get better. That’s not the behavior of a team who hates it’s coach or culture. 

 

I know we won’t get it, but I’d definitely like some elaboration on this quote. 

 

Yeah, and no offense to Chester Rodgers (who I do like as a player), but who is he to be bashing the last regime? After all, they are the ones that gave him a chance as a UDFA, and if he plans on being around when the Colts "turn the corner" & get back to being a contender with this new staff, he better get to work, because we just drafted 2 WRs who could both take his spot on the roster.

[IinD]

27 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Yeah, and no offense to Chester Rodgers (who I do like as a player), but who is he to be bashing the last regime? After all, they are the ones that gave him a chance as a UDFA, and if he plans on being around when the Colts "turn the corner" & get back to being a contender with this new staff, he better get to work, because we just drafted 2 WRs who could both take his spot on the roster.

Yeah, he should just shut up. It's not like he's Megatron or whatnot.

 

How would he know what an organization feels like? He came from a nobody school and wasn't even drafted.

[Four2itus]

Stay classy, Chester....

[Steamboat_Shaun]

41 minutes ago, IinD said:

Yeah, he should just shut up. It's not like he's Megatron or whatnot.

 

How would he know what an organization feels like? He came from a nobody school and wasn't even drafted.

 

I'd like to think that Coach Reggie Wayne will have a little chat with Chester once he catches wind of this.

[Aluckiswolverine]

I’m not a fan of Pagano think he was a really bad coach. With that said it was clearly a dig at him and the prior staff. 

 

We as as fans have no idea what it was like to play for the last regime. Maybe the team showed up during the bye weak for Irsay and not Pags. 

 

I’m not crazy about the comment but does not bother me if he uses it as moviation to ball out this year. 

[tvturner]

90% of this board shouldn't be offended by this quote when most of you called for Grigson and Pagano's heads

[a06cc]

This was for sure a dig. However your thinking should be as a collective shot. From top to bottom the rumors about Ryan and Chuck were out there. Chester is point out the fact of instability. He now feels the GM and coach have a better relationship and direction this time around. 

[WoolMagnet]

Pagano always had a stressful energy about him.  On the sidelines, he often had a confused, deer in headlights look on his face.

that confidence (or lack thereof) is infectious.  

A team needs a confident, secure leader in the face of adversity.  It gives those around them confidence and frees them to work more  naturally.

 I think, more than anything, there is just a feeling of a shared goal, and a very clear , concise plan on how we plan to get there. Players need this to fully buy-in to the program.

i think the players are finally getting a more directed plan and obviously they have more confidence in it.

 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Pagano always had a stressful energy about him.  On the sidelines, he often had a confused, deer in headlights look on his face.

that confidence (or lack thereof) is infectious.  

A team needs a confident, secure leader in the face of adversity.  It gives those around them confidence and frees them to work more  naturally.

 I think, more than anything, there is just a feeling of a shared goal, and a very clear , concise plan on how we plan to get there. Players need this to fully buy-in to the program.

i think the players are finally getting a more directed plan and obviously they have more confidence in it.

 

I don't buy into the deer in the headlights look.

Chuck has said more than once that coaching was nothing compared to what he went through in real life. He wasn't scared of anything that related to football and also said that too.

[ColtStrong2013]

3 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Interesting. 

 

Very interesting. 

 

The players loved Pagano. They came in during the bye week after a win to keep practicing to get better. That’s not the behavior of a team who hates it’s coach or culture. 

 

I know we won’t get it, but I’d definitely like some elaboration on this quote. 

"The players." There were a lot of players that were frustrated throughout their time under Pagano. Did Quincy Wilson love Pagano last season? Just curious... I don't agree at all, and all you can point to is those public quotes of people that defended Pagano. I think a lot of people respected him for what he went through and his drive to keep powering through... but to insinuate that all players loved playing under him is laughable. There were a lot more stressful and frustrating times for a whole lot of these guys the last 6 years than good. And if I remember correctly, I remember Pagano publicly ridiculing the roster a time or two taking shots at Grigson that didn't sit well with some players. 

[ColtStrong2013]

"I think it is one of those situations where it really reveals character," Fleener said. "The guys that kept fighting through it, knowing that we may not have our star quarterback on the field, but we still have a chance to win this game -- those are the guys that you want in your corner.

"The other guys, it becomes pretty apparent that they are along for the ride."

 

If I can remind anyone of this quote... And Pagano's comments to follow defending the team and environment. And Freeman's comments talking about what a "b... move" it was on Fleener's part to talk to the media about it. 

 

There were issues in that locker room. It started at the top with Grigson and Pagano and as hard as Chuck tried to keep it in check, it trickled down. Good management in ANY business makes the difference in the culture. Grigson was God-awful in that regard (and in putting together a roster).

 

The Culture is changed for the better, I am 100% confident. Frank understands and bought into his role as the HC here. He understands that Ballard has a good vision and high football IQ, and has brought in several key people to bring in talent and develop that talent. Frank knows he is tasked with leading a locker room that is now one of the youngest in the NFL and that will need guidance and firmness as a leader.

[ColtStrong2013]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I'd like to think that Coach Reggie Wayne will have a little chat with Chester once he catches wind of this.

And I'd like to think that if Reggie sticks his nose into players feelings about the prior coaching staff that Ballard might not keep him around very long either... Reggie's an assistant because he was a damn good football player. We don't know what his coaching ability is yet, and it could be very short lived. 

[ColtStrong2013]

35 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't buy into the deer in the headlights look.

Chuck has said more than once that coaching was nothing compared to what he went through in real life. He wasn't scared of anything that related to football and also said that too.

I'm not sure his comment had anything to do with being scared of anything... I think it had more to do with being lost on the sidelines at times, and I'm not sure how anyone could disagree with that? He absolutely struggled in games with adjustments and decision-making. It isn't easy adjusting on the fly and making quick decisions. There is a lot of preparedness that goes into it and then the ability to be able to think ahead and take risks. Chuck didn't take risks. He was ultra conservative and relied on a horrible defense a great of the time instead of keeping the ball in Andrew's hands when it was reasonable to do so. 

 

"Chuck Pagano, faced a scenario like this – fourth down with his team leading by 10 or fewer points in the first three quarters — 50 times in six seasons and went for it three times.

Reich watched the Eagles go for it in that scenario three times in a single game last season." -Stephen Holder 4/5/18

 

That's the deer in headlights... 3 times in 50 tries? How many times could we have possibly scored and altered losses in those 50 tries? How many times did we punt and watch the opposing offense batter our defense for a quick score? I would hate to know, actually. 

[WoolMagnet]

45 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't buy into the deer in the headlights look.

Chuck has said more than once that coaching was nothing compared to what he went through in real life. He wasn't scared of anything that related to football and also said that too.

One has nothing to do with the other.

actually, i don't buy the "hes been thru cancer so he can handle...".

going thru that doesnt suddenly make you a better coach, or more "stable under fire."

it puts things in perspective,yes, but diesnt suddenly give you the ability to handle anything.  

Hey, chuck looked nervous and confused at key coaching moments.  Sometimes he made embarrasing decisions even.  That doesnt make him a bad guy, just not a trait i want in a HEAD coach.

[ColtStrong2013]

6 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

One has nothing to do with the other.

actually, i don't buy the "hes been thru cancer so he can handle...".

going thru that doesnt suddenly make you a better coach, or more "stable under fire."

it puts things in perspective,yes, but diesnt suddenly give you the ability to handle anything.  

Hey, chuck looked nervous and confused at key coaching moments.  Sometimes he made embarrasing decisions even.  That doesnt make him a bad guy, just not a trait i want in a HEAD coach.

Exactly. I respect the hell out of anyone who goes through what Chuck went through. He's as tough as anybody. But I also have close family that went through chemo that often refer to their "chemo brain"  when they are forgetful and make silly mistakes. It's not uncommon. Chemotherapy puts people's bodies and minds through hell and back. That makes them tough but also breaks them down a lot. 

 

Chuck was a great guy that was paired with a bad GM. He had a qb in Andrew Luck that covered a lot of flaws for both of them. He wasn't a bad coach... he just wasn't a good one, and there is a whole lot to back that claim up. 

[WoolMagnet]

48 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Exactly. I respect the hell out of anyone who goes through what Chuck went through. He's as tough as anybody. But I also have close family that went through chemo that often refer to their "chemo brain"  when they are forgetful and make silly mistakes. It's not uncommon. Chemotherapy puts people's bodies and minds through hell and back. That makes them tough but also breaks them down a lot. 

 

Chuck was a great guy that was paired with a bad GM. He had a qb in Andrew Luck that covered a lot of flaws for both of them. He wasn't a bad coach... he just wasn't a good one, and there is a whole lot to back that claim up. 

I didnt mean to say i thought his decisions and "nervousness" was a result of chemo or anything.

i just think , under pressure, (coaching i'm referring to), he kinda locks up in the head a lil. alot of people do.  I think he was always that way.

not everyone can slow things down in their heads when the crap hits the fan.  Staying calm, cool, collected and focused is not easy.

its not necessarily a dig on Pagano to say things are better now, imo.

[waka waka]

i think most players want to be showcased. this new system (not sure what it will be) but it looks like it will highlight mismatches and focus on what the players do well. i like chester he just needs to work on skill number one (availability) if he can stay healthy he can be a great addition to the offense. good hands runs routes very well can play in the slot and outside (in a pinch) and hes still very young. With any management change, you get behind the movement or get moved or rolled over. i don't find anything said in an interview about whats new too alarming at this point.

[ColtStrong2013]

13 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I didnt mean to say i thought his decisions and "nervousness" was a result of chemo or anything.

i just think , under pressure, (coaching i'm referring to), he kinda locks up in the head a lil. alot of people do.  I think he was always that way.

not everyone can slow things down in their heads when the crap hits the fan.  Staying calm, cool, collected and focused is not easy.

its not necessarily a dig on Pagano to say things are better now, imo.

We wouldn't know if there was a pre-chemo difference in Chuck because we saw so little of him as a HC before he was diagnosed, but I cannot (and I can't be alone) think that it didn't have an effect on his health over the remainder of his time here. Combine that with the stress of having to work for Ryan Grigson, and I think he had his work cut out for him from a mental and emotional perspective. God bless him for that. 

 

We won't know if things are truly better until we see what kind of product we put on the field this season (roster wise and gameplanning/coaching wise), but as I originally posted, the culture has changed... we will see if it's a good thing.

[crazycolt1]

The thing is this changing culture is nonsense.

All of a sudden this has turned into a bash Chuck thread and that is horse dung.

Just what culture did Chuck have?  He after having to coach a team that was void of talent still didn't have a losing record. He was expected to do what with this team? He had to use how many QBs?  He didn't even have a running game. He had a bottom of the league defense.

But don't let that stop you from bashing the one person that maybe was the only positive thing this team had going for it.

[strt182]

 

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

We wouldn't know if there was a pre-chemo difference in Chuck because we saw so little of him as a HC before he was diagnosed, but I cannot (and I can't be alone) think that it didn't have an effect on his health over the remainder of his time here. Combine that with the stress of having to work for Ryan Grigson, and I think he had his work cut out for him from a mental and emotional perspective. God bless him for that. 

 

Not to mention this last year he probably knew he was a lame duck. Then you add in all the normal coaching stress I'm sure its different in there.

 

I'll kinda compare it to a divorce where you know things arent going great for whatever reason and you keep pushing foward to try and make things work and then once the divorce is final its like an elephant just fell off your shoulders. 

[crazycolt1]

The name of the thread is misleading in the first place.

So some player who was not even drafted and sure wasn't a starter runs his mouth and all of a sudden it's becomes a culture change? He never knew what any culture was.

  One big pile of horse dung.

[Shepman]

Perhaps the comment is more about organizational unity from the front office, GM and Coaching Staff.  That isn't really a shot at anyone but more positive reinforcement from All the changes made.  Still we have to see it on the field for it to really mean anything.

[strt182]

7 minutes ago, Shepman said:

Perhaps the comment is more about organizational unity from the front office, GM and Coaching Staff.  That isn't really a shot at anyone but more positive reinforcement from All the changes made.  Still we have to see it on the field for it to really mean anything.

But... you know everybody has to put their spin on things. 

[southwest1]

5 hours ago, tvturner said:

90% of this board shouldn't be offended by this quote when most of you called for Grigson and Pagano's heads

Offended isn't the right word. We gave Chuck time learn the ropes as a new, first time HC & it didn't pan out. He was here long enough to implement his vision & was eventually let go just like Jim Caldwell was before Pagano arrived. 

 

The quote is misleading because Chester doesn't have the cache to say that let alone make that claim. Not even close & why throw mud on Chuck now? Just say you're pleased with the current direction INDY is headed & let it go. No need to slam Chuck in his first HC gig. Bill Belichick was fired in Cleveland & Pete Carrol won no ring until 2013 with the Legion Of Boom. 

 

Rogers does deserve some credit for attaching his name to his comments vs going the anonymous route. That  takes balls. Refusing to hide or issue a retraction later on. 

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Offended isn't the right word. We gave Chuck time learn the ropes as a new, first time HC & it didn't pan out. He was here long enough to implement his vision & was eventually let go just like Jim Caldwell was before Pagano arrived. 

 

The quote is misleading because Chester doesn't have the cache to say that let alone make that claim. Not even close & why throw mud on Chuck now? Just say you're pleased with the current direction INDY is headed & let it go. No need to slam Chuck in his first HC gig. Bill Belichick was fired in Cleveland & Pete Carrol won no ring until 2013 with the Legion Of Boom. 

 

Rogers does deserve some credit for attaching his name to his comments vs going the anonymous route. That  takes balls. Refusing to hide or issue a retraction later on. 

Exactly SW1.  It didn't help when the OP brought up 'culture change' in the title being there has yet to be a culture made at this point.

Every word that has been said about Ballard and the new coaching staff is word for word what was said about Grigson/Pagano their first two years.

I will not rehash the Pagano issues because it's all water under the bridge but all of a sudden this turned into a bash Pagano thread when it wasn't necessary at all. 

It's funny that even after Ballards two drafts there is still a lot that think this team is no better than 8-8 even with Luck. But yet it was Pagano's fault?  Yeah, right.  

[southwest1]

Toward the end of Pagano's tenure everyone knew Chuck's days were numbered & INDY fans do have a right to be miffed that it took longer than it needed to clear the coaching & GM decks. Hades, I was getting upset myself at that point as well.

 

It's like that line Clint Eastwood says in "The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly:" 'When you have to shoot; Shoot. Don't Talk." Just substitute the word shoot for fire in this case. 

 

Jimmy should have realized sooner that this partnership wasn't working out & disassembled it faster because even in the Deflate Game INDY was humiliated. That's the benchmark for any Colts coach: Can you beat Pittsburgh & New England? Frank makes me feel we can & we will  in short order within 3 yrs working side by side Ballard. 

 

I hold no grudges against Chuck at all. Grigson is a totally different story in my book. Easy to criticize Pagano from a distance. Remember, when you get elevated to a HC spot, you rarely excel at your first stop. Mike Tomlin is a rare exception because the Rooney Family remained steadfast & didn't panic in the  growing pain yrs as the Steelers leader. They did the same with Bill Cowher too. 

 

 

[southwest1]

49 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The name of the thread is misleading in the first place.

So some player who was not even drafted and sure wasn't a starter runs his mouth and all of a sudden it's becomes a culture change? He never knew what any culture was.

  One big pile of horse dung.

I sort of stole your thunder there CC1 without realizing it. I had the same POV as you & jotted down my thoughts before seeing your post. 

 

You & I went a few rounds about whether or not to retain Pagano, but as you so eloquently stated "water under the bridge now." Like you, I dislike revisionist history that isn't accurate at all. 

 

People can still be angry at Chuck's sideline management. That I get. Just try not to throw dirt on his NFL coaching grave out of spite which serves no purpose now. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

I sort of stole your thunder there CC1 without realizing it. I had the same POV as you & jotted down my thoughts before seeing your post. 

 

You & I went a few rounds about whether or not to retain Pagano, but as you so eloquently stated "water under the bridge now." Like you, I dislike revisionist history that isn't accurate at all. 

 

People can still be angry at Chuck's sideline management. That I get. Just try not to throw dirt on his NFL coaching grave out of spite which serves no purpose now. 

All true my friend but as you know I came to the conclusion it was time for a change but never lost the knowledge that Chuck was in a no win situation the minute last season started.

To read these insults aimed at Chuck being brought up now over some player who has yet to crack a starting lineup over is nonsense.

I can understand a new head coach and all new excitement brought from that but maybe Rogers should have shown a little more maturity in talking about it.

 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

If Chester feels this way then I am sure he will make the most of it.....

[ColtStrong2013]

6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

The name of the thread is misleading in the first place.

So some player who was not even drafted and sure wasn't a starter runs his mouth and all of a sudden it's becomes a culture change? He never knew what any culture was.

  One big pile of horse dung.

When the players start talking about the difference, it's a culture change. 

 

Adam vinatieri said they'd be the best shaped team in the league because of the change of pace... is that horse dung? Just curious. 

 

“Changes in the weight room –  the way we lift and run to get us back in better condition than in the past, so hopefully we don’t have those fourth-quarter mishaps that we had (in) years past,” said kicker Adam Vinatieri. “Hopefully we’ll be – not hopefully – we will be the best conditioned team in the fourth quarter, and that will make a huge difference.”

 

SHOTS FIRED BY THE GOAT... 

[ColtStrong2013]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

All true my friend but as you know I came to the conclusion it was time for a change but never lost the knowledge that Chuck was in a no win situation the minute last season started.

To read these insults aimed at Chuck being brought up now over some player who has yet to crack a starting lineup over is nonsense.

I can understand a new head coach and all new excitement brought from that but maybe Rogers should have shown a little more maturity in talking about it.

 

Nonsense? This is a forum to talk about Colts football and all some of you knuckleheads do is come out and attack people and belittle. Get outta here. 

 

I think this will be the part where I bow out. Go blue. 

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Nonsense? This is a forum to talk about Colts football and all some of you knuckleheads do is come out and attack people and belittle. Get outta here. 

 

I think this will be the part where I bow out. Go blue. 

So us knucklheads come out and attack and belittle?

So what did you just do?  Welcome to the club.

[crazycolt1]

9 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

One has nothing to do with the other.

actually, i don't buy the "hes been thru cancer so he can handle...".

going thru that doesnt suddenly make you a better coach, or more "stable under fire."

it puts things in perspective,yes, but diesnt suddenly give you the ability to handle anything.  

Hey, chuck looked nervous and confused at key coaching moments.  Sometimes he made embarrasing decisions even.  That doesnt make him a bad guy, just not a trait i want in a HEAD coach.

 You don't even know the man but you can judge someone by the look on their face?

My, what a trait to possess.

[John Waylon]

10 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

"The players." There were a lot of players that were frustrated throughout their time under Pagano. Did Quincy Wilson love Pagano last season? Just curious... I don't agree at all, and all you can point to is those public quotes of people that defended Pagano. I think a lot of people respected him for what he went through and his drive to keep powering through... but to insinuate that all players loved playing under him is laughable. There were a lot more stressful and frustrating times for a whole lot of these guys the last 6 years than good. And if I remember correctly, I remember Pagano publicly ridiculing the roster a time or two taking shots at Grigson that didn't sit well with some players. 

 

Quincy Wilson?

 

You mean Quincy Wilson who just last week admitted that he was out of shape last season, coasted at times, and was not mentally strong enough? That Quincy Wilson?

 

Show me any documented case of players being unhappy under Pagano. When his contract was up players were publicly stating their support for him to remain. They never stopped showing that support for him. 

 

All I can point to is the public support of Pagano for evidence, whereas all you can do is make assumptions and theories and somehow I’m wrong and you’re right?

 

Did I wake up in some kind of backwards alternate universe or something?

[Mitch Connors]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

The thing is this changing culture is nonsense.

All of a sudden this has turned into a bash Chuck thread and that is horse dung.

Just what culture did Chuck have?  He after having to coach a team that was void of talent still didn't have a losing record. He was expected to do what with this team? He had to use how many QBs?  He didn't even have a running game. He had a bottom of the league defense.

But don't let that stop you from bashing the one person that maybe was the only positive thing this team had going for it.

....and got this team to an AFC Championship game after 3 years of demonstrated improvement.

Worst coach ever.

[John Waylon]

10 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

"The players." There were a lot of players that were frustrated throughout their time under Pagano. Did Quincy Wilson love Pagano last season? Just curious... I don't agree at all, and all you can point to is those public quotes of people that defended Pagano. I think a lot of people respected him for what he went through and his drive to keep powering through... but to insinuate that all players loved playing under him is laughable. There were a lot more stressful and frustrating times for a whole lot of these guys the last 6 years than good. And if I remember correctly, I remember Pagano publicly ridiculing the roster a time or two taking shots at Grigson that didn't sit well with some players. 

 

It’s also funny that you claim Pagano took shots at Grigson (where? And do not bring up the 2015 “it’s been that way since he got here” comment because whether that was even an intentional dig is entirely debatable. It was an accurate, truthful assessment of the situation, and people tried to make more out of it than it really was) and that it “didn’t sit well with some players” when McAfee has come clean and painted the picture that he has of Grigson and that almost no one liked him. 

 

A sentiment that was pretty much affirmed by Grigson himself. 

[onebad150]

The Culture Change I am looking for IS when we quit talking/mentioning Pagano and Grigson's names. That era is over, gone and in our past. We have several positive things to look forward to in our future. I am sure it will be fun to start enjoying watching the Colt's play again.