Pagano ranked as best HC in AFCS

[life long]

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816560/bill-belichick-tops-2017-nfl-head-coach-power-rankings

 

NFL website HC power rankings. Obviously BB is #1.

 

Pagano is ahead of every HC in AFCS.

 

Any thoughts? Personally I would put Bill O'Brian #1. Debate can be made for pags as 2-3. I believe he has held this team back with his approach late in games in prior seasons. I expect him to play to win more this season. Instead of playing not to lose. Which IMO cost us several games late last season. 

 

Feel free to chime in on the whole list. Our position on the list was shocking to me frankly, but I am not a huge Pagano supporter... Still I think we will be better than many here think. Barring major unforseen injuries.

 

Agree or disagree with Pagano's place on the list? Other HC's? Nfl pundits? Discuss.... 

[21isSuperman]

Nothing to get too worked up about.  I disagree with him.  If you're going to criticize O'Brien for having a bad offense/QB play when he's an offensive-minded coach, you should criticize Pagano for having an awful defense when he comes from a defensive background.

[pgt_rob]

Pagano is the #15 ranked best coach in the league. Hmm. I think he could be anywhere around 15-20 range in my opinon of course. John Fox and Jason Garrett that low are kinda off I think. John Fox has a headache of a team right now. Jason Garrett looks good due to Dallas's progress in the draft. They got lucky with Dak too. Let's see how he does in his 2nd year.

[life long]

3 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Nothing to get too worked up about.  I disagree with him.  If you're going to criticize O'Brien for having a bad offense/QB play when he's an offensive-minded coach, you should criticize Pagano for having an awful defense when he comes from a defensive background.

Who would you have as the  #1 HC in afcs? 

[Smonroe]

Fair assessment.  I always like to compare him to Payton, who's gone 7-9 the last three years.  Yes he won a SB.  So did Brian Billick.  That shine wears off eventually.  But people will give him every excuse in the book.

 

One of the things that Harrison, the author of the article, said was one of the greatest attributes of a head coach is how much his players love playing for him.  IMO, Pagano is top 10 in that category.

 

 

[21isSuperman]

7 minutes ago, life long said:

Who would you have as the  #1 HC in afcs? 

I'd say O'Brien.  He's been given absolute garbage at the most important position and has still managed to lead his team to the playoffs and his staff has developed a really strong defense.  Then I think it's a toss up between Pagano and Mularkey.  I was very hard on Mularkey, but he proved me wrong.  Mariota is developing well and they went 9-7 last year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I bet this will get a lot of the Pagano haters blood pressure up . Cant wait to read these Posts up coming.

[aaron11]

not really saying much, i dont have a problem with ranking chuck at 15 either

 

i think there are not a lot of great coaches anymore, but there are plenty of bad/mediocre ones

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

not really saying much, i dont have a problem with ranking chuck at 15 either

 

i think there are not a lot of great coaches anymore, but there are plenty of bad/mediocre ones

I agree, I have Pagano around 15-18, not a huge fan of his and still pee'd we got swept by Houston last season but we could do a lot worse. I would say he and O'Brien are pretty even and he is definitely better than the Titans and Jacks Coach.

[BR-549]

27 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Pagano is the #15 ranked best coach in the league. Hmm. I think he could be anywhere around 15-20 range in my opinon of course. John Fox and Jason Garrett that low are kinda off I think. John Fox has a headache of a team right now. Jason Garrett looks good due to Dallas's progress in the draft. They got lucky with Dak too. Let's see how he does in his 2nd year.

And again in a few years when they start losing players to FA or have to revamp the OL.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

This is a prove-it year for Pagano.  He is going up against the following top-10 coaches this year:

 

Seahawks - Carroll is #2

Steelers - Tomlin is #4

Ravens - Harbaugh is #6

Cardinals - Arians is #7

 

If you throw in coaches from the Pagano bracket (10-20), you add three more games:

 

Bengals - Lewis is #17

Texans - O'Brien is #18 - twice

 

He has to beat the big-dogs this year if he wants to be one next year.

[Flash7]

People might think Bill O'Brien is the best coach in the AFCS because he had no QB, however, When Luck went down and missed 9 games, Pagano still found a way to win with Hasselback, and the rest of the QB army needed in 2015, and did it without a defense ranked as high as Houston's.

 

Pagano gets a bad rap here, but he is not as bad as some would believe. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

The only thing I gathered from that list is that Bruce Arians might honestly be the most overrated coach in the NFL. Not saying he shouldn't be rated higher than Pagano, but I'd definitely take Sean Payton, Mike Zimmer, or Dan Quinn over Arians in a heartbeat.

[BR-549]

16 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

People might think Bill O'Brien is the best coach in the AFCS because he had no QB, however, When Luck went down and missed 9 games, Pagano still found a way to win with Hasselback, and the rest of the QB army needed in 2015, and did it without a defense ranked as high as Houston's.

 

Pagano gets a bad rap here, but he is not as bad as some would believe. 

Good point and I agree with you.  Let the man prove himself now that RG is not here to pester him- allegedly.

 

13 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

The only thing I gathered from that list is that Bruce Arians might honestly be the most overrated coach in the NFL. Not saying he shouldn't be rated higher than Pagano, but I'd definitely take Sean Payton, Mike Zimmer, or Dan Quinn over Arians in a heartbeat.

I would have to agree with this too.  I have always thought he was overrated also.  

 

Besides, he reminds me of the actor (Ned Beatty) that abuses his air mattress in the movie Deliverance, and then is later forced to squeal like a pig, lol.   

[colt18]

22 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

People might think Bill O'Brien is the best coach in the AFCS because he had no QB, however, When Luck went down and missed 9 games, Pagano still found a way to win with Hasselback, and the rest of the QB army needed in 2015, and did it without a defense ranked as high as Houston's.

 

Pagano gets a bad rap here, but he is not as bad as some would believe. 

When Luck went down they changed the offense to fit around Hass, which is strange because they never changed the offense to protect Luck. I find that to be more of a negative than a positive, and plus Hass still got injured the same way Luck did.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

21 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

The only thing I gathered from that list is that Bruce Arians might honestly be the most overrated coach in the NFL. Not saying he shouldn't be rated higher than Pagano, but I'd definitely take Sean Payton, Mike Zimmer, or Dan Quinn over Arians in a heartbeat.

 

I don't know.  I might prefer Arians if I had a QB like Luck or Rodgers.

 

I'd prefer Payton if I had a team with a lot of elite skill players.

 

I'd prefer Zimmer or Quinn if I wanted to be a defensive team, and had the defensive playmakers.

 

Can I get Quinn as the HC, Zimmer as the DC, Payton as the OC, and Arians as the QB-coach?  

[jameszeigler834]

2 hours ago, life long said:

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816560/bill-belichick-tops-2017-nfl-head-coach-power-rankings

 

NFL website HC power rankings. Obviously BB is #1.

 

Pagano is ahead of every HC in AFCS.

 

Any thoughts? Personally I would put Bill O'Brian #1. Debate can be made for pags as 2-3. I believe he has held this team back with his approach late in games in prior seasons. I expect him to play to win more this season. Instead of playing not to lose. Which IMO cost us several games late last season. 

 

Feel free to chime in on the whole list. Our position on the list was shocking to me frankly, but I am not a huge Pagano supporter... Still I think we will be better than many here think. Barring major unforseen injuries.

 

Agree or disagree with Pagano's place on the list? Other HC's? Nfl pundits? Discuss.... 

I don't think he is the best coach in the AFC South.

[coltsfeva]

Carroll is # 2 after what might be the WORST Coaching Decision in SB history. Not saying he doesn't belong there but I wonder what Colts fans would be saying about Pagano, if he had done the same?

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, colt18 said:

When Luck went down they changed the offense to fit around Hass, which is strange because they never changed the offense to protect Luck. I find that to be more of a negative than a positive, and plus Hass still got injured the same way Luck did.

I look at it different. He coached this team to an 8-8 record with 5 different QBs with two of them not even being in the league. It was not Pagano's fault he had no offensive line, defense or running game.

IMO that might have been his best coaching since he has been here. The Colts still only were one game out of a division crown.

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

Carroll is # 2 after what might be the WORST Coaching Decision in SB history. Not saying he doesn't belong there but I wonder what Colts fans would be saying about Pagano, if he had done the same?

It wouldn't matter. Heck the Colts could win a super bowl but in a few minds it would be in spite of him.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, colt18 said:

When Luck went down they changed the offense to fit around Hass, which is strange because they never changed the offense to protect Luck. I find that to be more of a negative than a positive, and plus Hass still got injured the same way Luck did.

 

Did they really change the offense that much for Hass?  or is it more a matter of him being a long term experienced veteran that knows his own weaknesses and how to overcome them?  such as knowing he doesn't have Luck's mobility, but he does have far more experience reading defenses so he's better equipped to get the ball out of his hands early and make adjustments pre-snap.  He also knows the importance of sticking with the running game...multiple team officials and Luck himself said that he's had problems with that as far as checking out of run plays and into pass plays more often than he should.

 

Even if they did change up the offense for Hass...that's still a sign of a quality coaching staff.  The problem with your thinking is they don't NEED to change up the offense for Luck.  Don't get me wrong, I would prefer more of a bootleg/playaction heavy west coast style offense, but Luck is far more than capable of running Chud's vertical offense.  He simply needs to be better at reading defenses presnap (which will come with experience) and find ways to get the ball out of his hands quicker.

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Nothing to get too worked up about.  I disagree with him.  If you're going to criticize O'Brien for having a bad offense/QB play when he's an offensive-minded coach, you should criticize Pagano for having an awful defense when he comes from a defensive background.

 

3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I'd say O'Brien.  He's been given absolute garbage at the most important position and has still managed to lead his team to the playoffs and his staff has developed a really strong defense.  Then I think it's a toss up between Pagano and Mularkey.  I was very hard on Mularkey, but he proved me wrong.  Mariota is developing well and they went 9-7 last year.

 

because Pagano has had such a high level of defensive talent to work with 

 

[bleevit]

I believe Chuck Pagano has overall done a fine job coaching the Colts thus far. When they had to play the last game of the season with quaterbacks they picked up from the street, they played hard and showed some pride even though winning would likely not help. A good coaches number 1 quality is developing a team mentality.  The won lost record could have been helped a lot if Grigson had just got a couple of defensive studs instead of Trent Richardson, et al. The players play for him and that's a good thing.

[Luck is Good]

I agree on Bill O'Brien at #1 in the AFC South. He's had Brian Hoyer and Brock Osweiler at QB for Christ's sake

[21isSuperman]

59 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

 

because Pagano has had such a high level of defensive talent to work with 

 

He hasn't been given much talent to work with, but he had a historically bad defense last year, with his own hand-picked DC.  Plus, if it were just one bad year, that's something.  But Indy hasn't had a good defense in any of Pagano's years.  The only time the defense was even semi-decent was 2014, and even that wasn't a spectacular year.  A good defensive coach would see how bad the middle of the defense has been and at least make some schematic changes, or come up with some good blitzes to compensate for a lack of a premier pass rusher.

[chad72]

More than HC, our OC and DC play calling adjustments has been the biggest problem, IMO.

 

OK, now that we seem to have more horses for D, continuity on OL, and a second year of Chud with Luck plus second year for Monachino, let us see what happens. Peyton and Tom Moore being a constant was a BIG part of our Peyton era success. 

 

Continuity and stability does matter long term.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

5 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I'd say O'Brien.  He's been given absolute garbage at the most important position and has still managed to lead his team to the playoffs and his staff has developed a really strong defense.  Then I think it's a toss up between Pagano and Mularkey.  I was very hard on Mularkey, but he proved me wrong.  Mariota is developing well and they went 9-7 last year.

Pagano has a cruddy defense, O'Brien has arguably the defense in the league! Houston had a good defense before he got there. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

50 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

He hasn't been given much talent to work with, but he had a historically bad defense last year, with his own hand-picked DC.  Plus, if it were just one bad year, that's something.  But Indy hasn't had a good defense in any of Pagano's years.  The only time the defense was even semi-decent was 2014, and even that wasn't a spectacular year.  A good defensive coach would see how bad the middle of the defense has been and at least make some schematic changes, or come up with some good blitzes to compensate for a lack of a premier pass rusher.

And Grigson's picks and players

[azcolt]

This thread should be deleted. 

[colt18]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I look at it different. He coached this team to an 8-8 record with 5 different QBs with two of them not even being in the league. It was not Pagano's fault he had no offensive line, defense or running game.

IMO that might have been his best coaching since he has been here. The Colts still only were one game out of a division crown.

 

Facts. Pagano did coach the team to an 8-8 record. But he got outcoached several times that season as well.

 

Pags couldn't figure out how to stop the pressure from the Bills or Jets. He made that terrible 4th down call against the Pats, which is pretty much an indictment against him because Luck performed well and we had a great chance to win. We started out slow against the Saints and Panthers. Beat Denver. Got blown out by the Steelers and Jaguars.

 

 

Allow me to remind you that yes, Pagano has been really bad at times:

 

 

 

I'll give him the Broncos (even though we only won because Luck risked it all) and Falcons game. 4 wins came from dismal AFC South teams and the Bucs. Winning less than 6 games in that division, nevertheless losing it, was unacceptable. And if you think that season was his best coaching since he's been here.....yikes is all I have to say.

 

 

5 hours ago, J@son said:

 

Did they really change the offense that much for Hass?  or is it more a matter of him being a long term experienced veteran that knows his own weaknesses and how to overcome them?  such as knowing he doesn't have Luck's mobility, but he does have far more experience reading defenses so he's better equipped to get the ball out of his hands early and make adjustments pre-snap.  He also knows the importance of sticking with the running game...multiple team officials and Luck himself said that he's had problems with that as far as checking out of run plays and into pass plays more often than he should.

 

Even if they did change up the offense for Hass...that's still a sign of a quality coaching staff.  The problem with your thinking is they don't NEED to change up the offense for Luck.  Don't get me wrong, I would prefer more of a bootleg/playaction heavy west coast style offense, but Luck is far more than capable of running Chud's vertical offense.  He simply needs to be better at reading defenses presnap (which will come with experience) and find ways to get the ball out of his hands quicker.

 

 

 

 Yes they really changed the offense for a 40 year old backup QB. Do you know the difference between most of the plays called between Luck and Hass? One was literally running a vertical offense and the other was running a horizontal offense. 

 

Luck threw for 40 TDs the season before that. Luck has plenty of experience reading defenses, that isn't the problem. The problem was that they wanted Luck to make these amazing throws with little time to execute....like Peyton Manning. Instead of realizing we didn't have the line to play like that, they kept calling plays that had Luck dropping back seven steps and running for his lfe the entire game. They did need to change the offense in order to protect Luck. It wont be an necessary now if the o line has improved like I've heard it has. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

7 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I don't know.  I might prefer Arians if I had a QB like Luck or Rodgers.

 

I'd prefer Payton if I had a team with a lot of elite skill players.

 

I'd prefer Zimmer or Quinn if I wanted to be a defensive team, and had the defensive playmakers.

 

Can I get Quinn as the HC, Zimmer as the DC, Payton as the OC, and Arians as the QB-coach?  

 

I don't disagree, I'm mostly basing it off this list, & a little bit by the forum's infatuation with him. Overall, I think he's in the 10-12 range.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, colt18 said:

 

Facts. Pagano did coach the team to an 8-8 record. But he got outcoached several times that season as well.

 

Pags couldn't figure out how to stop the pressure from the Bills or Jets. He made that terrible 4th down call against the Pats, which is pretty much an indictment against him because Luck performed well and we had a great chance to win. We started out slow against the Saints and Panthers. Beat Denver. Got blown out by the Steelers and Jaguars.

 

 

Allow me to remind you that yes, Pagano has been really bad at times:

 

 

 

I'll give him the Broncos (even though we only won because Luck risked it all) and Falcons game. 4 wins came from dismal AFC South teams and the Bucs. Winning less than 6 games in that division, nevertheless losing it, was unacceptable. And if you think that season was his best coaching since he's been here.....yikes is all I have to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 Yes they really changed the offense for a 40 year old backup QB. Do you know the difference between most of the plays called between Luck and Hass? One was literally running a vertical offense and the other was running a horizontal offense. 

 

Luck threw for 40 TDs the season before that. Luck has plenty of experience reading defenses, that isn't the problem. The problem was that they wanted Luck to make these amazing throws with little time to execute....like Peyton Manning. Instead of realizing we didn't have the line to play like that, they kept calling plays that had Luck dropping back seven steps and running for his lfe the entire game. They did need to change the offense in order to protect Luck. It wont be an necessary now if the o line has improved like I've heard it has. 

Having the players to do what you think should have been done is not realistic. You want to hand pick the negative to make your case that Pagano did a bad job. That's fine but over looking the reasons there were a lot of negative issues and pointing the finger directly at Pagano is being narrow minded about the whole picture.

[crazycolt1]

7 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

Carroll is # 2 after what might be the WORST Coaching Decision in SB history. Not saying he doesn't belong there but I wonder what Colts fans would be saying about Pagano, if he had done the same?

Nothing anymore than what they already say.

[life long]

1 hour ago, azcolt said:

This thread should be deleted. 

Why? It seemed relevant to me... 

 

Topics for debate is what sports fan forums are about, right?

[NewColtsFan]

 

I don't think Pagano is a top-10  ooach,  and I don't think he's a bottom-10 coach.

 

Which puts him somewhere in the middle....   11-22.

 

On his best day,  he's no better than 11.      On his worst day,   I don't think he's worse than 22.    Typically he's somewhere between those two marks.      And for now,  I'm OK with that.

 

We'll revist things in January.....

 

[GoColts8818]

Honestly other than Doug Marrone, who is new to the job with the Jags, I think all the AFC South Coaches are about the same.  They are average.  Not great but not bad either.  

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, azcolt said:

This thread should be deleted. 

Why??  You can either contribute or ignore.

[colt18]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Having the players to do what you think should have been done is not realistic. You want to hand pick the negative to make your case that Pagano did a bad job. That's fine but over looking the reasons there were a lot of negative issues and pointing the finger directly at Pagano is being narrow minded about the whole picture.

LOL why even respond to me when you're not going to actually contribute to this discussion?

 

Coaching isn't about what you could do with better players, it's what you do with the players you have. 

 

 

Handpick negatives? I actually gave him credit and docked him for serious mistakes, it's not my fault you choose to ignore the negatives and just say "it wasn't entirely his fault". His worst mistake was entirely his fault lol. 

 

I also never pointed the finger directly at Pagano about everything. You're just lying to yourself if you think 2015 was good coaching from him.

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, colt18 said:

LOL why even respond to me when you're not going to actually contribute to this discussion?

 

Coaching isn't about what you could do with better players, it's what you do with the players you have. 

 

 

Handpick negatives? I actually gave him credit and docked him for serious mistakes, it's not my fault you choose to ignore the negatives and just say "it wasn't entirely his fault". His worst mistake was entirely his fault lol. 

 

I also never pointed the finger directly at Pagano about everything. You're just lying to yourself if you think 2015 was good coaching from him.

Lol, I am sorry you fail to see any point of view but your own.

It was someone outside this forum who made these ranking so feel free to disagree.

Coaching don't have anything to do with the players? I take it you know very little about what talent it takes for a coach needs to be successful.

The Colts had a lot of injuries and the drop off of talent between the starters and the second tier players was astronomical. There has been no depth on this team for quite some time. Sorry if you can't see it or ignore it all together.

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, colt18 said:

 

Facts. Pagano did coach the team to an 8-8 record. But he got outcoached several times that season as well.

 

Pags couldn't figure out how to stop the pressure from the Bills or Jets. He made that terrible 4th down call against the Pats, which is pretty much an indictment against him because Luck performed well and we had a great chance to win. We started out slow against the Saints and Panthers. Beat Denver. Got blown out by the Steelers and Jaguars.

 

 

Allow me to remind you that yes, Pagano has been really bad at times:

 

 

 

I'll give him the Broncos (even though we only won because Luck risked it all) and Falcons game. 4 wins came from dismal AFC South teams and the Bucs. Winning less than 6 games in that division, nevertheless losing it, was unacceptable. And if you think that season was his best coaching since he's been here.....yikes is all I have to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 Yes they really changed the offense for a 40 year old backup QB. Do you know the difference between most of the plays called between Luck and Hass? One was literally running a vertical offense and the other was running a horizontal offense. 

 

 

My point was that they ran similar route concepts with both luck and hass.  Luck tried to hold on to the ball ad long as hr can to make a play downfield, but he almost always also has checkdowns and ahorter routes he could throw to...but be chooses not to. When hass was playing, they still had receivers running long routes but hass knew he didnt have the arm strength he used to so he used his experience instead being able to get the ball out quickly to those shorter routes. 

 

You could call the exact same plays with either guy playing QB but have it look like a completely different offense because of the QBs differing strengths and tendencies.