What will New England Get for Jimmy G?

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

The Pats backup QB is under contract for another year. They would be unwise to deal him.

Why would they be unwise to trade him?  Brady isn't going anywhere for a few years.  If they don't trade him this off-season,  He walks next year and they get nothing in return

[oldunclemark]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why would they be unwise to trade him?  Brady isn't going anywhere for a few years.  If they don't trade him this off-season,  He walks next year and they get nothing in return

That's okay. Arent there 2 assumptions here'?

 

1.) that Tom Brady can play well and wont get hurt for the next couple of years. To me, that's unlikely in his 40s.

2.) that the backup, who has played 2 good games, is a better than average player.

 

. I'd keep him as insurance against Tom Brady getting hurt in 2017 and, if Tom doesn't,  then I'd let the backup go. Draft a QB every year until you need one. 

Live for next year and don't worry about your backup QB leaving

Edited February 12, 2017 by oldunclemark
spell

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

That's okay. Arent there 2 assumptions here'?

 

1.) that Tom Brady can play well and wont get hurt for the next couple of years. To me, that's unlikely in his 40s.

2.) that the backup, who has played 2 good games, is a better than average player.

 

. I'd keep him as insurance against Tom Brady getting hurt in 2017 and, if Tom doesn't,  then I'd let the backup go. Draft a QB every year until you need one. 

Live for next year and don't worry about your backup QB leaving

If you can get a first or second round pick for a guy who sits on the bench is the smart move.   If they can't get that much for him,  They will probably keep him.  

[chad72]

20 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Oh I agree, but Cleveland is in dire straits for a QB!  If anybody would meet that price, it should be them.  On the other hand, what did Minnesota give the Eagles for Bradford?  A 1st and next year conditional 4th might be the asking price.   Would that do it?  Is Jimmy G. potentially better or worse than Bradford?  Osweiler got (over)paid... so many things in play here...

 

Bradford had several years of starting experience under his belt. It is totally different.

 

Browns could do a conditional top of 3rd round pick that could become a top of 2nd round pick if Jimmy G gets enough playing time.

[oldunclemark]

45 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If you can get a first or second round pick for a guy who sits on the bench is the smart move.   If they can't get that much for him,  They will probably keep him.  

If you get first or second round pick and then Brady is hurt..you have Jacoby Brissett, right?

Pats are in a 'win now' mode.  If you trade a good backup QB who you have locked up and your starter gets hurt you have outsmarted yourself.

 

Might be best to just try to win next season's title .

 

..and Chad...they're not trading him for a 3rd round pick. I really wonder where this trade talk is coming from

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

If you get first or second round pick and then Brady is hurt..you have Jacoby Brissett, right?

Pats are in a 'win now' mode.  If you trade a good backup QB who you have locked up and your starter gets hurt you have outsmarted yourself.

 

Might be best to just try to win next season's title .

 

..and Chad...they're not trading him for a 3rd round pick. I really wonder where this trade talk is coming from

 

If the Patriots can get a 1st Round pick for him I would jump all over it. Brady isn't getting injured and has at least 3 more years left and they will Repeat IMO. If I was an opposing GM I would not give up a 1st Round pick for him, that is just me. A 2nd Round pick I would but of course someone like the Browns would as they make bad decision after bad decision. Knowing the Browns they would probably give up their 1st pick . If I was the Browns I would choose Watson at #1, he can do everything that Russell Wilson can. He is much bigger and stronger than Wilson and is a proven winner as he just beat Alabama.

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

If you get first or second round pick and then Brady is hurt..you have Jacoby Brissett, right?

Pats are in a 'win now' mode.  If you trade a good backup QB who you have locked up and your starter gets hurt you have outsmarted yourself.

 

Might be best to just try to win next season's title .

 

..and Chad...they're not trading him for a 3rd round pick. I really wonder where this trade talk is coming from

 

Lots of teams in need of a qb.  The bears want him

[oldunclemark]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If the Patriots can get a 1st Round pick for him I would jump all over it. Brady isn't getting injured and has at least 3 more years left and they will Repeat IMO. If I was an opposing GM I would not give up a 1st Round pick for him, that is just me. A 2nd Round pick I would but of course someone like the Browns would as they make bad decision after bad decision. Knowing the Browns they would probably give up their 1st pick . If I was the Browns I would choose Watson at #1, he can do everything that Russell Wilson can. He is much bigger and stronger than Wilson and is a proven winner as he just beat Alabama.

I dont know Brady isn't getting hurt.....

They're paying the backup next to nothing.....

.....Look at it this way..The lack of another high draft choice wont keep NE from winning in 2017

The lack of a backup QB might

 

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Lots of teams in need of a qb.  The bears want him

.and the Bears 2nd round choice is the 35th overall pick, right?

That's pretty good...

 

Chicago radio is all over this because he's from Eastern Illinois University.

It would be a very popular move for the Bears and when you were 3-13....you need to do something

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

.and the Bears 2nd round choice is the 35th overall pick, right?

That's pretty good...

 

Chicago radio is all over this because he's from Eastern Illinois University.

It would be a very popular move for the Bears and when you were 3-13....you need to do something

I can see that, that makes sense for both teams.

[Flying Elvis]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ok you guys have convinced me somewhat, he probably will get traded for a 1st but I am still not convinced playing outside of New England he will pan out. There really isn't any other intriguing QB's coming out with the exception of Watson, having said that if the Draft was coming up I doubt I would take Jimmy G in the 1st Round either. Probably somewhere in Round 2. - He was actually the 62nd pick of his Draft which is very late in Round 2.

There is no guarantee that Garap will be successful outside of New England. With the small sample size there's no guarantee he would be successful in New England either. You could also question his durability.

[Flying Elvis]

19 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

If the Pats do in fact get a first for jimmy g. then their fans should change their tune & start singing praises to goodell...

That's a point I hadn't considered.

 

Nah. Not a chance.

 

Congrats on becoming a mod.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:

That's a point I hadn't considered.

 

Nah. Not a chance.

 

Congrats on becoming a mod.

You guys will probably always hate him. At least you did win the SB again so you got your satisfaction from that. A Pats fan IMO should have nothing to complain about at this point, 5 Championships and most people think Brady is the GOAT. I also think they will be the team to beat next season as well. As a Colts fan I am happy with 1 SB win and having the best 7 year span in NFL history wins wise being 2003-2009 going 89-23. That isn't near like winning 5 SB's though.

[Flying Elvis]

I do miss the rivalry between our teams. Both teams kept the other from winning more super bowls.

 

You're right. We have nothing to complain about. I can die happy after watching the first super bowl victory in 2001.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:

I do miss the rivalry between our teams. Both teams kept the other from winning more super bowls.

 

You're right. We have nothing to complain about. I can die happy after watching the first super bowl victory in 2001.

From 2003-2009 it was the best rivalry in Football IMO that is probably why you miss it. I know you guys hate the Jets but they usually stink anyway. Both teams just dominated. I do think Andrew will eventually be a Great QB, he has been Good at worse putting up solid stats and making a Title game. Colts just don't have the Defense right now to compete against the Patriots or Steelers. That may change now that Ballard is in.

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

.and the Bears 2nd round choice is the 35th overall pick, right?

That's pretty good...

 

Chicago radio is all over this because he's from Eastern Illinois University.

It would be a very popular move for the Bears and when you were 3-13....you need to do something

 

That makes a lot of sense, Mark. That would be a good move, IMO.

 

I also read that the Bears may be interested in the rookie QB that I mentioned earlier, Nathan Peterman, the Pitt QB. He played in the Senior Bowl and John Fox got a chance to coach him.  

 

https://www.google.com/amp/dawindycity.com/2017/01/21/chicago-bears-2017-nfl-draft-nathan-peterman/amp/

[Carlos Danger]

I have no knowledge about this, but I'm curious if anybody has complied a list of compensation that NE has received for the other QBs they've acquired in the Brady era... I remember hearing about how they like to draft QBs for trade fodder.

I'd love to know if that has worked as a strategy to acquire players after the young QBs have shown flashes in BB's system. 

[NFLfan]

22 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

I have no knowledge about this, but I'm curious if anybody has complied a list of compensation that NE has received for the other QBs they've acquired in the Brady era... I remember hearing about how they like to draft QBs for trade fodder.

I'd love to know if that has worked as a strategy to acquire players after the young QBs have shown flashes in BB's system. 

 

Off the top of my head,

 

Drew Bledsoe-- 1st round pick from the Bills 

 

Matt Cassell -- NE received the #34 pick for Matt Cassell and Mike Vrabel. Matt Cassell had been a 7th Rd pick of NE.

 

Ryan Mallett -- NE received either a 6th or a 7th round pick from the Texans

 

The Pats could also receive good compensation for Jimmy G. 

[-JJ-]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You guys will probably always hate him. At least you did win the SB again so you got your satisfaction from that. A Pats fan IMO should have nothing to complain about at this point, 5 Championships and most people think Brady is the GOAT. I also think they will be the team to beat next season as well. As a Colts fan I am happy with 1 SB win and having the best 7 year span in NFL history wins wise being 2003-2009 going 89-23. That isn't near like winning 5 SB's though.

Forget NE vs Brady...Goodell is bad anyway. He sounds like a Politian. I'll take Pete Rozele any day.

[-JJ-]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

From 2003-2009 it was the best rivalry in Football IMO that is probably why you miss it. I know you guys hate the Jets but they usually stink anyway. Both teams just dominated. I do think Andrew will eventually be a Great QB, he has been Good at worse putting up solid stats and making a Title game. Colts just don't have the Defense right now to compete against the Patriots or Steelers. That may change now that Ballard is in.

I'll predict that rivalry will never happen again. Besides being great teams you had Brady and Manning and that alone will be hard to duplicate.

[JimJaime]

5 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

The Pats backup QB is under contract for another year. They would be unwise to deal him.

BB and Bradybtime closer to the end date. So if they can get the #12 pick from Cleveland and get a difference maker on D and say use the 32nd pick on his heir apparent. (Say Kaiser from ND) then you do it. Pats are in a def win now type mode.

[dgambill]

8 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

If you get first or second round pick and then Brady is hurt..you have Jacoby Brissett, right?

Pats are in a 'win now' mode.  If you trade a good backup QB who you have locked up and your starter gets hurt you have outsmarted yourself.

 

Might be best to just try to win next season's title .

 

..and Chad...they're not trading him for a 3rd round pick. I really wonder where this trade talk is coming from

 

Pats have been in win now mode since like 03. Still hasn't stopped them from dealing QBs. Jacoby stepped in and played ok for them but I assume they draft another qb. They will get a first rd pick or a 2 plus other picks for him. They aren't going to pass that up. Brady has played through any bumps and bruises over the years. Only a freak injury would keep him out. He is playing for another 3-4 years. Jimmy won't wait that long. It's plug and play there. They will just draft another qb and groom him as well. If Brady was slipping I'd say they would keep him but he is playing MVP level and is going to keep playing until he has all the records which is minimum 3 years away. They will draft another qb in a year or two. Also win now mode...which would help them win now more....a backup qb that might play in clean up time or a stud corner or lb to take that defense to the next level.

[dgambill]

8 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

.and the Bears 2nd round choice is the 35th overall pick, right?

That's pretty good...

 

Chicago radio is all over this because he's from Eastern Illinois University.

It would be a very popular move for the Bears and when you were 3-13....you need to do something

Plus fox and company need to turn that around quickly or they will be out of a job. They need some help in the secondary but a qb and a few moves that team is on the up turn. That division I think could look like NFC west from a few years ago.

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 1:48 PM, dgambill said:

I think it seems to be a forgone conclusion that his value is as high as it will ever get. Who and what do you think they offer to get him. Seems NE is in for a nice payout for drafting the kid.

 

Is Clevelands #12 too high? Do they trade back into the 20's and then offer for him? Would it take an early 2nd from say SF plus some other picks maybe in 4th and 5th? Sometimes I think NE values multiple picks over just a high one. What does everyone think will happen. Somehow the rich get richer. I mean theres a reason for that but maybe we could ask Goodell to turn the NFL into a socialistic system so they could share the wealth with the rest of us lol.

 

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think a lot of it depends on whether or not teams think he can be franchise QB. Maybe the Browns do?

 

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think a lot of it depends on whether or not teams think he can be franchise QB. Maybe the Browns do?

Well if I was looking to get him I wouldn't give higher than a 2nd or 3rd cause he is still unproven he played a couple of decent games this past season but he has shown me that he is an injury waiting to happen too witch moves any possibility of me giving up a 1st rounder for him or really a 2nd I would give a 3rd and that it since he seems to be a bit injury prone.

[ColtsBlueFL]

10 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Bradford had several years of starting experience under his belt. It is totally different.

 

Browns could do a conditional top of 3rd round pick that could become a top of 2nd round pick if Jimmy G gets enough playing time.

 

He also had a couple years experience on IR  (more than half the 2013 season, and all of 2014, plus missed games in other years).  It took this year, to show that his two left ACL's might have been more fluke than harbinger of pending doom.  He was damaged goods, and an IR risk.  Yet still went for a 1 and 4.  Costs of a potential franchise QB are high.  See- Texans; Brock Osweiler.

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Pats have been in win now mode since like 03. Still hasn't stopped them from dealing QBs. Jacoby stepped in and played ok for them but I assume they draft another qb. They will get a first rd pick or a 2 plus other picks for him. They aren't going to pass that up. Brady has played through any bumps and bruises over the years. Only a freak injury would keep him out. He is playing for another 3-4 years. Jimmy won't wait that long. It's plug and play there. They will just draft another qb and groom him as well. If Brady was slipping I'd say they would keep him but he is playing MVP level and is going to keep playing until he has all the records which is minimum 3 years away. They will draft another qb in a year or two. Also win now mode...which would help them win now more....a backup qb that might play in clean up time or a stud corner or lb to take that defense to the next level.

The only reason to deal the backup is if you dont think he can lead you to the title game

Remember how old Tom Brady is.........when health goes.....its goes very, very quickly.

..and it wont matter who you drafted for some other position....

 

I don't have to read you the list of good teams that didn't have a backup and were eliminated early in the post-season because of it. Oakland was the latest.

The idea of Tom Brady playing until he's 44 or 45....is unrealistic.

If you like Jimmy G.....then keep him around another year

.

No law says you cant resign him....

 

 

 

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Plus fox and company need to turn that around quickly or they will be out of a job. They need some help in the secondary but a qb and a few moves that team is on the up turn. That division I think could look like NFC west from a few years ago.

If NE wants to trade their backup (and we only assume that) and they will take the Bears No.2 pick..

....that deal would be done.

But the Bears cant give up the 3rd overall pick in the draft

[dgambill]

49 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

If NE wants to trade their backup (and we only assume that) and they will take the Bears No.2 pick..

....that deal would be done.

But the Bears cant give up the 3rd overall pick in the draft

Sure they can't....but perhaps NE is making them sweat it out and playing them and SF and Cleveland....pushing up the price trying to get a better deal. Maybe in the late first or maybe a 2 and 4 or something...only time will tell. I think that organization has faith they can groom another qb. Bill maybe just playing for now. I figure he and Brady retire together so he maybe isn't worrrying about a backup. I wouldn't underestimate Brady playing 3 or 4 more years. He has been underestimated his whole career. He takes care of his body like no other qb in history. He still has good arm strenght and even if that goes 80% of his passes are under 10 yds. You could be right they might keep Jimmy...but a first rd pick is probably enough to change their mind.

[Chucklez]

8 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

 

 

Well if I was looking to get him I wouldn't give higher than a 2nd or 3rd cause he is still unproven he played a couple of decent games this past season but he has shown me that he is an injury waiting to happen too witch moves any possibility of me giving up a 1st rounder for him or really a 2nd I would give a 3rd and that it since he seems to be a bit injury prone.

I agree with the bolded....

Can we all just remember that Nick Foles (who had more extensive playing time than Jimmy G) had a decent 2013 season, including a game where he threw a record tying 7TD and perfect passer rating... He even went to the probowl...  in 2014 he led the league in turnovers....

People were high on him.... but where is he now? A flash in the pan means nothing.

[GoPats]

 

You can't point to past trades (Cassel) and/or free agent signings (Osweiler) as an indication of what teams will do in the future at the QB position. Just think about what teams give up regularly, every year it seems, to move up in drafts to pick their preferred signal-caller.

 

If you go to a casino, there will be more tales of woe coming from the roulette table than tales of joy, yet still you see people putting down their bets. In the NFL, it's a lot like that with QBs. You do your homework and your best to project, but ultimately, you may only be 75% sure about a guy and be in a position where you're going to have to take a risk. 

 

The market changes yearly. The draft changes yearly. There are a lot of variables and rebuilding teams are under pressure to make it all happen quickly. Several teams are looking for help at the most important position on the team. 

 

The Patriots won't give up Jimmy G for a second-rounder. Maybe multiple picks, but I think it's going to take a decent first to get him. 

 

 

[jvan1973]

23 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

You can't point to past trades (Cassel) and/or free agent signings (Osweiler) as an indication of what teams will do in the future at the QB position. Just think about what teams give up regularly, every year it seems, to move up in drafts to pick their preferred signal-caller.

 

If you go to a casino, there will be more tales of woe coming from the roulette table than tales of joy, yet still you see people putting down their bets. In the NFL, it's a lot like that with QBs. You do your homework and your best to project, but ultimately, you may only be 75% sure about a guy and be in a position where you're going to have to take a risk. 

 

The market changes yearly. The draft changes yearly. There are a lot of variables and rebuilding teams are under pressure to make it all happen quickly. Several teams are looking for help at the most important position on the team. 

 

The Patriots won't give up Jimmy G for a second-rounder. Maybe multiple picks, but I think it's going to take a decent first to get him. 

 

 

Why? If they don't get anything for him this off-season,  He walks next year and they get nothing.  

[GoPats]

28 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why? If they don't get anything for him this off-season,  He walks next year and they get nothing.  

 

True, but... they could always tag and trade him at the end of next season. It's a high price but it's what they did with Cassel. (KC had no intention of keeping him on the tag, it was just so that his rights could be retained for the trade.) I don't think they'll settle for whatever the highest offer is; I think they know what they want, and won't take less. 

 

Despite Brady's longevity, they still put a really high value on Jimmy, and since they drafted him in the second and developed him, I would think they want to see a return on their investment. If he walks in FA there's a chance they would get a third-round comp pick for him. (I think that formula is based on what the departing player signs for a contract, and Jimmy G will get a good deal somewhere.) They also REALLY like Jacoby Brissett. 

 

If it is a second round pick as the centerpiece, they'll ask for more (package of the second plus multiple lower-round picks) and some team will pony up. Thinking about it, BB may ever prefer it that way. 

 

(Good to see you by the way Jvan, hope you and yours are doing great!) 

 

 

 

[aaron11]

JG is not worth a first round pick, hes worth a second

 

he was originally drafted in the second, what has he done since then to make anyone think hes worth a first now?

 

id rather use a first on kizer or watson

[jameszeigler834]

8 hours ago, Chucklez said:

I agree with the bolded....

Can we all just remember that Nick Foles (who had more extensive playing time than Jimmy G) had a decent 2013 season, including a game where he threw a record tying 7TD and perfect passer rating... He even went to the probowl...  in 2014 he led the league in turnovers....

People were high on him.... but where is he now? A flash in the pan means nothing.

Foles is good in the right offense Jimmy G would probably be too but I just don't know at this point if he went to a good team that just needs a QB maybe.

[DaltonDamaja]

To the right team I think they both could be good average quaterbacks. For a struggling franchise they could be an easy option to win some games here and there, but with the talent coming out of the draft this year forget about it. NE would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for JG especially if he is going somewhere to be a back-up

[gacoop1]

That's why the Patriots are always up there in the winners circle.  They manipulate the system, they are winners.  They know how to strategize, and get quality draft picks.  Now, if Patriots pull this off with Cleveland getting their #12 for Garopolo, the Patriots again can get an impact player to help them stay on top....That's genius....

[wizwor]

On 2/11/2017 at 4:26 PM, braveheartcolt said:

A first, for 94 pass attempts in professional football. Ouch.

 

How many teams have spent a first on a guy with zero pass attempts in professional football?  Seems to me that we have seen more out of Jimmy G. than any of the QBs in the draft.  What we have seen is very good.

 

The only risk in choosing JG over a college QB is that you will have to pay him sooner.

[braveheartcolt]

51 minutes ago, wizwor said:

 

How many teams have spent a first on a guy with zero pass attempts in professional football?  Seems to me that we have seen more out of Jimmy G. than any of the QBs in the draft.  What we have seen is very good.

 

The only risk in choosing JG over a college QB is that you will have to pay him sooner.

I know, this argument has already been made, and it is a good point. I made my comment on the back of the Brock trade, and the $72m deal, but this is not the same. I still don't think he will be the saviour of whatever desperate team goes for him......

[eseae]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 4:50 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Pats are going to get a 1 and something else....

 

Or maybe several 2's,  but I believe it will be a 1 plus more.

 

Why?

 

Because whatever Garrapollo is or isn't,  he's the best QB available.     He's likely better than anyone in the draft and more ready to play immediately.

 

Hard to put a price on that.        Yes, someone will overpay,  but that's what happens when QB is the most important position in the NFL and there are NOT 32 very good QB's who walk the earth.

 

So, you gamble....

 

well said, I think that it what they'll get. JG looked dam good in the 1.5 games he played, there is no sure fire lock QB in the draft this year. Cleveland, SF, and the bears are all interested per many reports. 

 

and I get he hasn't played many nfl snaps, but any college player hasn't played any snaps, many more fail then do well, and is a totally unknown commodity. JG showed two things when he played:

 

1. he has the talent to be a very good QB. His TD pass to bennet (I think) in the Miami game was a thing of beauty. he threw 3 in the first half IIRC.

2. he is mentally tough, he was filling brady's shoes and did not shrink from the pressure at all.  That pressure would make many QBs crumble.

 

Im sure BB will be back to having two 1st rounders again shortly.  

 

and when Brady finally retires in 2026, if they go through QB's like any other team trying to rebuild, the whole "system" talk goes out the window, right? pretty sure Brady would be great anywhere that had competent coaches.

[eseae]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 3:28 PM, DaltonDamaja said:

To the right team I think they both could be good average quaterbacks. For a struggling franchise they could be an easy option to win some games here and there, but with the talent coming out of the draft this year forget about it. NE would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for JG especially if he is going somewhere to be a back-up

what Talent are qbs that can turn around a franchise?  I know of none in this draft. its deep talent wise generally but not at QB.