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LETS GET THINGS STRAIGHT ABOUT THE OFFENSIVE LINE

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I'm tired of hearing colts fans say how joe reitz and Anthony castonzo are our 2 best linemen. Castonzo still has a lot to learn, needs to be more consistent and get stronger. Joe reitz is not a good guard whatsoever, he got mollywhopped a lot this season, a move to tackle needs to happen or release him. As for our best performer on the offensive line, that award goes to AQ Shipley, he did good bass blocking and a good job run blocking, in my opinion he can only get better, if he gets to play that is. H*** if we cant find 2 guards in the draft or free agency then I wouldn't mind seeing Shipley as a guard.

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LT Anthony Castonzo Bradley Sowell     LG Joe Reitz Jeff Linkenbach Seth Olsen   C Samson Satele A.Q. Shipley     RG Mike McGlynn Tony Hills     RT Winston Justice  

 

Just to put this thread on a track, we are talking about gentlemen listed above. Sorry, but I didn't find any game stat for them (don't have time for it either).

Shipley was solid as C, but he has to work on his snaps. With that said Satele seems to be expandable, but as far as I know he has 3 years contract.

I've expected more from Justice (Eagles' fans were crying for bringing him back to Philly), the same stands for McGlynn.

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Guys like Justice and Mcglynn were just brought in because they came cheap and we did not have the cap, They aren't starters and Im sure Grigson knows that. Mcglynn will be replaced with a quality starter I have little doubt, Justice on the other hand I can see starting next year, not because he is good but because we have so many other holes that we need to sure up and I just dont think RT will be high on that list because mainly thats not Lucks blindside and if a Lineman gets passed Justice Luck can see that Lineman coming which obviously means he needs to make his move fast, Guard however should be if we have any hope of being able to run the ball consistently

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Thanks for that Hungarian Colts fan, helps me visualise what we're talking about, so IMO:

 

Castonzo: One of our better O line this year but not a finished product, Sounds obvious but I think he would improve immensely if he had some decent Vets around him to mentor him.I also don't know if he's truly a LT. He always seems to do his best work on run blocking out wide.

 

Sowell: Thank you and goodbye!

 

Reitz: Could be a serviceable backup, I never really noticed him either way to be honest.

 

Linkenbach: I thought Link did ok this season to be honest, his utility as well is not to be sniffed at. But I would only want him as cheap backup.

 

Satele: A player I had high hopes for but a disappointed greatly. Was injured all season so it might not be fair to judge his level of play if he wasn't 100%. No way is he going anywhere, but I'd rather see him at G than C. His head bob wants to make me scream.

 

Shipley: One of the few "successes" for the O line this season, our ground game always seem to pick up when he's in. Like his aggression and strength too. Would be my preferred starter over Satele. Needs to work on technique though. Again might be worth trying at G if we draft/FA a decent C.

 

MyGlynn: Just about did enough, I'd like to see some competition for him next year to see if he really is a viable starter.

 

Hills: Thank you and goodbye!

 

Justice: Solid start to the season but tailed off badly, another one who couldn't seem to stay fit and (multiple?) concussions is never a good sign. I'd only want him back as backup for Vet Min. 

 

FAs I'd like to see: Levrite/Clady/Albert/Vollmer but even though we've got cash to splash we need to not go OTT with this. Too many holes to fill. 

 

Drafted I'd like to see: Barret Jones

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FAs I'd like to see: Levrite/Clady/Albert/Vollmer but even though we've got cash to splash we need to not go OTT with this. Too many holes to fill. 

 

Drafted I'd like to see: Barret Jones

 

Clady definitely isn't going anywhere. He's arguably the best LT in the league. I think Long is the only big name LT that will be on the market, and I think he'll be overpaid by someone. If we can find an anchor at LT and one interior linemen, our line is immediately better, IMO.

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with Castanzo. How anybody can judge his play as bad is beyond me. He is the only stable part of the line that does not need to be replaced or at least upgraded. If we got 2 good interior lineman, this line would instantly be very solid. I wouldn't mind an upgrade over Justice too, but I don't think its as necessary as the interior line.

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with Castanzo. How anybody can judge his play as bad is beyond me. He is the only stable part of the line that does not need to be replaced or at least upgraded. If we got 2 good interior lineman, this line would instantly be very solid. I wouldn't mind an upgrade over Justice too, but I don't think its as necessary as the interior line.

I like him also. Did you hear him during the Baltimore game? When Baltimore wouldn't get off Luck! He got *, started grabbing their players. Some of the Baltimore guys came up to him, pushing him back, he screams, GET OFF MY QB! Multiple times. Loved it!

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I sure am sick of running left and only left. Justice and McGlynn need to go bye bye. I thought Justice was good at first, but like stated above, he's trailed off, and been hurt alot.

 

Shipley is waaaay better than Satele. Period. End of story.

 

Sowell needs to be a wrestler, not a O-Lineman.

 

Linkenbach is a rollercoaster. Every other week he is bad, then he's good again. Too inconsistant.

 

If Iljiana gets hurt again, peace out. Who knows if he's any good anyways.

 

Castanzo and Shipley are my only two keepers.

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Drafted I'd like to see: Barret Jones

 

I'm sure he will be long gone before the Colts get a selection.  That kid is a real OL ... national college awards at guard, tackle, and center the last three years.

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I sure am sick of running left and only left. Justice and McGlynn need to go bye bye. I thought Justice was good at first, but like stated above, he's trailed off, and been hurt alot.

 

Shipley is waaaay better than Satele. Period. End of story.

 

Sowell needs to be a wrestler, not a O-Lineman.

 

Linkenbach is a rollercoaster. Every other week he is bad, then he's good again. Too inconsistant.

 

If Iljiana gets hurt again, peace out. Who knows if he's any good anyways.

 

Castanzo and Shipley are my only two keepers.

I once again agree with my buddy Lolly on this.  I said when we picked Shipley up on the PS last year if given the chance he would be a solid starting center in the NFL.  Like former Colt Jeff Saturday, Shipley did not get the chance in Pittsburgh or Philly.  Both teams had solid centers.  Shipley was an absolute BEAST at Penn State.  The only times I saw him clearly beaten this year were when the OL call went awry or Olsen did not get the memo  :funny:

 

Castanzo is FINE.  Has he seen an ounce of continuity on the OL since he has been here?  Two//sometimes 3 rookie TEs to learn the system?  Unless you can get someone in free agency that is a true Pro Bowler, I stick with AC!

 

Justice was actually taken out Sunday due to lack of productivity....not for an injury (According to sideline reporter 97.1 Kevin Lee)  The team is/was high on Sowell.  He was beaten badly a couple of times by Kruger....but then again who wasn't?

 

Reitz has played respectably when not injured....never has gotten the continuity needed....also played better with Shipley at center.  Do we see a trend here Colts fans? :scratch:  :thinking:

Link has stayed because he plays across the line of scrimmage....has played well at LG...the best once again with Shipley.  He looked lost with Satele.  I think the center's line calls are more crisp with Shipley, and he does not give away his snaps like Satele. (Thank you Jay Kirk for pointing that out to me)  Link gets skilled at RT.....

 

McGlynn can go.....unless we can find someone better (I sure hope so :)) and Olsen and fat-boy slim Hills can go with him.  :spit:

 

HMMMM......have I missed anyone?  Olsen.....Oh forget it.... :)  Go  :coltshelmet:  :coltslogo:  :coltshorse:  :coltsfb: !!!!!!

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This pretty much sums up our O-Line play this year.....

 

Shipley.jpg

That' snot Shipley.....believe it or not :)

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I once again agree with my buddy Lolly on this.  I said when we picked Shipley up on the PS last year if given the chance he would be a solid starting center in the NFL.  Like former Colt Jeff Saturday, Shipley did not get the chance in Pittsburgh or Philly.  Both teams had solid centers.  Shipley was an absolute BEAST at Penn State.  The only times I saw him clearly beaten this year were when the OL call went awry or Olsen did not get the memo  :funny:

 

Castanzo is FINE.  Has he seen an ounce of continuity on the OL since he has been here?  Two//sometimes 3 rookie TEs to learn the system?  Unless you can get someone in free agency that is a true Pro Bowler, I stick with AC!

 

Justice was actually taken out Sunday due to lack of productivity....not for an injury (According to sideline reporter 97.1 Kevin Lee)  The team is/was high on Sowell.  He was beaten badly a couple of times by Kruger....but then again who wasn't?

 

Reitz has played respectably when not injured....never has gotten the continuity needed....also played better with Shipley at center.  Do we see a trend here Colts fans? :scratch:  :thinking:

Link has stayed because he plays across the line of scrimmage....has played well at LG...the best once again with Shipley.  He looked lost with Satele.  I think the center's line calls are more crisp with Shipley, and he does not give away his snaps like Satele. (Thank you Jay Kirk for pointing that out to me)  Link gets skilled at RT.....

 

McGlynn can go.....unless we can find someone better (I sure hope so :)) and Olsen and fat-boy slim Hills can go with him.  :spit:

 

HMMMM......have I missed anyone?  Olsen.....Oh forget it.... :)  Go  :coltshelmet:  :coltslogo:  :coltshorse:  :coltsfb: !!!!!!

 

 

I don't know why the team keeps sticking satele back in there unless it's just because they gave him a respectable contract and they think he'll eventually live up to it. Shipley has performed better and looks stronger. I seen people suggest we put Satele at guard and that seems like a terrible idea to me. If he's not strong enough to play center, he'll get absolutely waxed at guard. 

I would go with Castanzo, Free agent, Shipley, Free agent, Justice for next yr.. If we can find a good free agent RT to replace Justice, that would be good too.

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I don't know why the team keeps sticking satele back in there unless it's just because they gave him a respectable contract and they think he'll eventually live up to it. Shipley has performed better and looks stronger. I seen people suggest we put Satele at guard and that seems like a terrible idea to me. If he's not strong enough to play center, he'll get absolutely waxed at guard. 

I would go with Castanzo, Free agent, Shipley, Free agent, Justice for next yr.. If we can find a good free agent RT to replace Justice, that would be good too.

Shipley played guard fairly well....although he was definitely out of his comfort zone.....I think Shipley makes this team regardless.  He is fearless, he plays with pain......the kid is my kind of Offensive lineman.  

 

I can live with your line by the way.....especially if we are at the very least LOOKING for a replacement for Justice.  :)

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This pretty much sums up our O-Line play this year.....

 

Shipley.jpg

 I'll pick Shipley! I believe that is a line call for a "pick play".

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This is my wish list for our 2013 O-line.

 

LT - Castanzo

LG - Andy Levitre

C - Shipley

RG - Louis Vasquez

RT - Jermon Bushrod / Phil Loadholt

 

If we could make this happen, I would be very satisfied and confident in our O-line.

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my wish list for next year.....

LT - Ryan Clady/Vollmer/Bushrod

LG - Levitre

C - Satele /shipley

RG - Vazquez

RT - Castanzo

honestly wouldnt mind giving castanzo a shot at guard and maybe sign both vollmer and bushrod. but i think castanzo will have to put on more weight for the guard position.

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my wish list for next year.....

LT - Ryan Clady/Vollmer/Bushrod

LG - Levitre

C - Satele /shipley

RG - Vazquez

RT - Castanzo

honestly wouldnt mind giving castanzo a shot at guard and maybe sign both vollmer and bushrod. but i think castanzo will have to put on more weight for the guard position.

 

 

Castanzo is no guard. There is absolutely no chance Clady gets away from Denver. He will be franchised. I honestly can not figure out why people think Castanzo has not done a good job at LT. He was one of the best(if not the best) LT to come out in the 2011 draft. He has done a very good job and is considered (outside of the Colts fans world) to be one of the best young LT's in football. Put a serviceable LG beside him and nobody will complain about him.

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I'm sure he will be long gone before the Colts get a selection.  That kid is a real OL ... national college awards at guard, tackle, and center the last three years.

 

Maybe so, but there is a lot of O line talent in this draft and a fair few teams who need to reach for QBs, well ok teams WILL reach for a QB because they feel the pressure to, similar to the 2011 draft with the likes of Gabbert etc. We do seem to have done ok in the way the drafts have fallen. 

 

If we'd finished with our expected (in terms of the media )record of say 6-10 or the like, I would have liked to see us trade down to pick up some more picks as there is some good D talent as well to be had. 

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Castanzo is no guard. There is absolutely no chance Clady gets away from Denver. He will be franchised. I honestly can not figure out why people think Castanzo has not done a good job at LT. He was one of the best(if not the best) LT to come out that yr.. He has done a very good job and is considered (outside of the Colts fans world) to be one of the best young LT's in football. Put a serviceable LG beside him and nobody will complain about him.

 

I don't have any real complaints about AC, I just think he seems to do his best work in the run game so it would interesting to see what he could do at RT if you had a stud LT. Until that pig grows wings though he is more than good enough to start at LT for us. 

 

I agree too that with some proper guards he would look even better. A lot of the problems though seem to come from confusion on blocking assignments on stunts. Is that more down to coaching or talent?

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Castonzo and Shipley are really the only guys I want starting next year. There's a decent amount of quality linemen in FA this year. Grigson will put together a line for next year.

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I don't have any real complaints about AC, I just think he seems to do his best work in the run game so it would interesting to see what he could do at RT if you had a stud LT. Until that pig grows wings though he is more than good enough to start at LT for us. 

 

I agree too that with some proper guards he would look even better. A lot of the problems though seem to come from confusion on blocking assignments on stunts. Is that more down to coaching or talent?

 

 

Can Castanzo improve? Of course he can, afterall he's only been in the league for 2 yrs. now. This is when most O-lineman(especially tackle's) really start getting it. It's absolutely baffling to me that people want to move him to either RT or especially guard(of which he's never played even in college) that would do nothing but set him back in his growth. He has had absolute crap to work with on the line and hasn't had the opportunity to gain any continuity with anybody else. Despite that, he's still performed really well. When we actually get some more talent on this line to go along side of him. He will make people forget about Tarik Glenn pretty fast. He has all the skills and athletic ability to be a top LT in the NFL.

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For months I've been on Anthony's case. Said I'd rather have Dwayne Allen play LT it got that bad. Sorry to everyone who is a AC fan, but right now I'm not one of them. We talking about the "number 1" offensive line prospect. He doesn't need help from a vet or needed to sit and learn. He was suppose to be ready to play from day 1. He hasn't play up to expectations. If the move him to RT then it would be understandable. He doesn't play tuff enough for me. Hopefully next season he does. But for me, this season he just been bad as everyone else.

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I would like to see them land Jake Long and then maybe shift Castonzo to RT. Not that I don't like how Castonzo is playing, it just seems like getting a Pro Bowl LT would help out significantly. He will be expensive but hopefully they dish out some serious $ (within reason of course).

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I have not one bit of the smallest idea what some of you are talking about.

 

Most of our running happened right behind Costanzo. He didn't get beat immediately 100% of the time in passing situations where generally 2 or 3 guys on any given snap did. 

 

He's not the best, but he's not the problem, and he's not going anywhere. Bigger fish to fry on that line,

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Castonzo does everything right, the only thing he struggles with is the elite speed rushers in the league. Who doesn't? With more film study and technique work, he will become a top 5 LT in the league. He's already a top 5 run blocking LT.

 

He compares to Duane Brown. In Brown's first couple years he wasn't an elite pass protector, but his run blocking was very strong. This year he made the jump and he's played at an All Pro level.

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I know it's wish lists and dream scenerios, but everyone does realize what the market is for the best FA OL, right?  Three of them, as some want, would push $20 million or maybe more - a year.  It simply isn't going to happen.  And Costanzo is a UFA in 2015, so that $20 million given away in 2013 needs to consider a starting LT in just two years, which will be another chunk of change if replaced in FA or if Costanzo is resigned.  We all know the OL has to be improved.  But there is no way it is overhauled with three top FAs this season.  I don't think two are signed.  One, yes. 

 

The top 2012 OL FAs:

Carl Nicks, OG, 5 years $47.5 million.

Eric Winston OT - who was cut by the Texans after last season - 4 years, $22 million.

Jared Gaither OT, 4 years $24.6 million.

Chris Myers C, 4 years $25 million.

Ben Grubbs OG, 5 years, $36 million

Scott Wells C, 4 years $24 million

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I sure am sick of running left and only left. Justice and McGlynn need to go bye bye. I thought Justice was good at first, but like stated above, he's trailed off, and been hurt alot.

 

Shipley is waaaay better than Satele. Period. End of story.

 

Sowell needs to be a wrestler, not a O-Lineman.

 

Linkenbach is a rollercoaster. Every other week he is bad, then he's good again. Too inconsistant.

 

If Iljiana gets hurt again, peace out. Who knows if he's any good anyways.

 

Castanzo and Shipley are my only two keepers.

i agree with that, it seemed all our runs were tot he Left...teams knew it and we still were able to run a lot to that side...id say thats an endorsement to both castonzo and reitz...honestly im ok with Castonzo Reitz starting as long as we get a new RG and RT or C and RG

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For months I've been on Anthony's case. Said I'd rather have Dwayne Allen play LT it got that bad. Sorry to everyone who is a AC fan, but right now I'm not one of them. We talking about the "number 1" offensive line prospect. He doesn't need help from a vet or needed to sit and learn. He was suppose to be ready to play from day 1. He hasn't play up to expectations. If the move him to RT then it would be understandable. He doesn't play tuff enough for me. Hopefully next season he does. But for me, this season he just been bad as everyone else.

be patient, how long did it take to our last true LT, tarik glenn?  like 4 years

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Castonzo doesn't finish his blocks. We seen it Sunday when Ray Lewis just pushed him out of the way and tackled Ballard. He has been getting beat all season. Most of our runs have been behind our left guard or center. Anthony wiffs on blocks. I have no clue why some of you are saying he is great in run block. That isn't true at all. Anthony Castonzo is also a false start waiting to happen.

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Can Castanzo improve? Of course he can, afterall he's only been in the league for 2 yrs. now. This is when most O-lineman(especially tackle's) really start getting it. It's absolutely baffling to me that people want to move him to either RT or especially guard(of which he's never played even in college) that would do nothing but set him back in his growth. He has had absolute crap to work with on the line and hasn't had the opportunity to gain any continuity with anybody else. Despite that, he's still performed really well. When we actually get some more talent on this line to go along side of him. He will make people forget about Tarik Glenn pretty fast. He has all the skills and athletic ability to be a top LT in the NFL.

 

Fair point and well made, I guess what I was reaching for that if we were in a position to land a top LT but not RT I'd still like AC on the line at RT. I still think he has a lot of potential certainly and your development isn't going to be helped b injury/carousel on O-line personal/playing alongside bums. 

 

 

For months I've been on Anthony's case. Said I'd rather have Dwayne Allen play LT it got that bad. Sorry to everyone who is a AC fan, but right now I'm not one of them. We talking about the "number 1" offensive line prospect. He doesn't need help from a vet or needed to sit and learn. He was suppose to be ready to play from day 1. He hasn't play up to expectations. If the move him to RT then it would be understandable. He doesn't play tuff enough for me. Hopefully next season he does. But for me, this season he just been bad as everyone else.

 

Really?! You must have been watching some different games if you think he's been as bad as everyone else, because there has been some baaaaaaaaaaaaaad play on that line. If it wasn't for the Jets blooper reel out there on Youtube I'd say some of the pass blocking has been the most comedic attempt at NFL play I've seen :P  

 

No matter how good you are you can't hold up an entire O-line yourself, not saying AC is perfect but I think he's part of the solution not the problem. 

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I know it's wish lists and dream scenerios, but everyone does realize what the market is for the best FA OL, right?  Three of them, as some want, would push $20 million or maybe more - a year.  It simply isn't going to happen.  And Costanzo is a UFA in 2015, so that $20 million given away in 2013 needs to consider a starting LT in just two years, which will be another chunk of change if replaced in FA or if Costanzo is resigned.  We all know the OL has to be improved.  But there is no way it is overhauled with three top FAs this season.  I don't think two are signed.  One, yes. 

 

The top 2012 OL FAs:

Carl Nicks, OG, 5 years $47.5 million.

Eric Winston OT - who was cut by the Texans after last season - 4 years, $22 million.

Jared Gaither OT, 4 years $24.6 million.

Chris Myers C, 4 years $25 million.

Ben Grubbs OG, 5 years, $36 million

Scott Wells C, 4 years $24 million

 

 

You do realize that even the most expensive guy on your list is only 9.5 million per yr. right??? We have 43 million to spend this offseason. 9.5 million is a drop in the bucket and honestly there isn't anybody that will command that kind of money this offseason. Clady might, but he won't be available anyway, he'll get franchised. We could easily sign 3 good free agent O-lineman and still have a ton of cap money left to spend on other areas. Not saying we will sign 3, but the money is there to do it if they choose to.

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You do realize that even the most expensive guy on your list is only 9.5 million per yr. right??? We have 43 million to spend this offseason. 9.5 million is drop in the bucket and honestly there isn't anybody that will command that kind of money this offseason. Clady might, but he won't be available anyway, he'll get franchised. We could easily sign 3 good free agent O-lineman and still have a ton of cap money left to spend on other areas. Not saying we will sign 3, but the money is there to do it if they choose to.

 

What is resigning our own going to cost?  A little for the draft, a few million is needed as well.  The number won't be $43 million.  I don't disagree that it could be done, what I'm saying is if in three seasons the cap hit from the OL alone is over $30 million, which it well could be if we're talking tackles at 9, guards at 5, and a center at 3 or 4 (Satele's number in the last year of his deal), there will be a price to pay in numerous other places.  We've all treated that $43 million like it can handle about six top tier players from this FA class, and it isn't going to stretch that far.  The Colts have 12 UFAs, and another 8 RFAs.  There are 20 roster spots which have to be handled from that $43 million.  Clearly some of those are dirt cheap, but others aren't going to be (three CB's on that list).  I'm with everyone else, I want the best available FA OL, there has to be a RT, and not just any, I want an anchor, which will cost.  But when we are crying about being 30th against the run, or 23rd in sacks again, or watching our CBs get roasted, we all better be really, really happy with the OL if that's where the money goes. 

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What is resigning our own going to cost?  A little for the draft, a few million is needed as well.  The number won't be $43 million.  I don't disagree that it could be done, what I'm saying is if in three seasons the cap hit from the OL alone is over $30 million, which it well could be if we're talking tackles at 9, guards at 5, and a center at 3 or 4 (Satele's number in the last year of his deal), there will be a price to pay in numerous other places.  We've all treated that $43 million like it can handle about six top tier players from this FA class, and it isn't going to stretch that far.  The Colts have 12 UFAs, and another 8 RFAs.  There are 20 roster spots which have to be handled from that $43 million.  Clearly some of those are dirt cheap, but others aren't going to be (three CB's on that list).  I'm with everyone else, I want the best available FA OL, there has to be a RT, and not just any, I want an anchor, which will cost.  But when we are crying about being 30th against the run, or 23rd in sacks again, or watching our CBs get roasted, we all better be really, really happy with the OL if that's where the money goes. 

 

 

 

Honestly, the guys they probably resign will take very little money. We don't really have anybody thats a free agent that will command a big contract. I don't think there is any intention to bring back Freeney so we don't need to worry about him. Contracts can be structured in so many different ways that I don't see any problem at all in signing a few good O-lineman. On top of that, IMO we need a CB, OLBer, and a SS. All other area's can be handled with depth signings. Even with the guys I would like to see brought in for the O-line, I don't see any of them commanding more than 5-6 million per yr. and even that could be structured in a way where the cap hit wasn't quite that much.

 

With the new CBA rules this yr. where teams must spend at least 89% of their cap, the money has to be spent regardless, so they may as well spend the money where it is needed the most. 

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Coach Pagano commended Justice for playing against the Texans and coming back to go against the Ravens.

COACH said Justice reinjured his arm, came off the field with his arm dangling, and told Coach he was a Liability.

Pagano probably Lied for him some of you say?

You don`t have ALL the CAP $$$ to spend THIS off season. get a Clue.

Castonzo is decent right now. He ABSOLUTELY lacks some footspeed. He gets beat a lot. Too much.

Hopefully he comes back near 100% healthy, yes he can improve. If we could get a better LT it would be worth it. IMO.

These people Chose Olson over... And we watched Satelle hurt us Sunday. There is a problem here. Best man up!

Justice just can`t quite get it done. Look to upgrade. Same with our guards.

Lots of new faces coming the next few years. Andrew is very Capable of becoming a 30 pt a game QB. Gonna be fun! ;)

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Cap dollars will easily support 3 top tier FA's this offseason. The cap goes up in the NFL next season I believe so making an oline cap of 30 mil is going to be nothing in terms of total cap %. I say we get 2 lineman top shelf and a defensive guy. Draft the rest.

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