Now that the dust has settled.....

[Blackhawk4]

Get over it.... Peytonbabba is gone.

It was the SMART, BUSINESS CALL. Hands down.

Unless we have a losing record the next 10-15 years, are the laughing stock of the NFL, have the most black out games during that period, become the franchise worth the least amount of cash and then Irsay sells because of all the money he has ended up losing...The it would not be a smart business call, but hey what's the chance of that?

[Gavin]

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-report-colts-to-part-ways-with-peyton-manning-20120306,0,7842482.column 28 million due on march 8 it was a friday

[Gavin]

Unless we have a losing record the next 10-15 years, are the laughing stock of the NFL, have the most black out games during that period, become the franchise worth the least amount of cash and then Irsay sells because of all the money he has ended up losing...The it would not be a smart business call, but hey what's the chance of that?

very small

[HungarianColtsFan]

Unless we have a losing record the next 10-15 years, are the laughing stock of the NFL, have the most black out games during that period, become the franchise worth the least amount of cash and then Irsay sells because of all the money he has ended up losing...The it would not be a smart business call, but hey what's the chance of that?

,

Yes, and if Manning is retained, then we may have a loosing record too, we had one of the worst Ds in entire NFL last season. Manning alone isn't able to win SB or taking the team into playoffs on his back. Our O-line had problems too. With Manning and almost 0 free cap space we had no chance to build a capable team around him. 2010 season already was a struggle to reach even playoffs. We were not contenders.

Don't know what record we will have with Luck, but old days of glory are gone we have to look into the future.

Go Colts!

[Fx Stryker]

Unless we have a losing record the next 10-15 years, are the laughing stock of the NFL, have the most black out games during that period, become the franchise worth the least amount of cash and then Irsay sells because of all the money he has ended up losing...The it would not be a smart business call, but hey what's the chance of that?

Happened from '78-'97.

[GoColts8818]

Happened from '78-'97.

Till 95 in 95 and 96 we made the playoffs and were a game away from the super bowl in 95. The colts sold out several games during the harbaugh era not as many as Peyton clearly but a lot none the less.

[Fx Stryker]

But the 22 Mill for Luck includes his 4-years of Salary. So you're not doing an apples to apples comparison. Just saying it's comparing guaranteed money to guaranteed money is not the full picture. If someone is investing that much into Manning, they're going to have him around for a while.... and you've got to include those salaries... whether they're fully guaranteed at the start or not...

That's the only way to do a completely fair comparison...

If they signed the deal it would have given Peyton $28M at the time. When they sign the deal for Luck he gets $22M. I'm not discussing roster salaries because the concern at the time he wasn't even going to play. He wouldn't have gotten a roster paycheck if he wasn't capable of playing. So it's still is $28M locked to Peyton, $22M locked to Luck.

Yes if he made it to the regular season, he would be getting paid an extra $7M. He would have had to make it there which the concern was if he even could.

Till 95 in 95 and 96 we made the playoffs and were a game away from the super bowl in 95. The colts sold out several games during the harbaugh era not as many as Peyton clearly but a lot none the less.

Still saying it's possible. In 20 years they made the playoffs three times. They isn't great.

History repeats itself.

,

Yes, and if Manning is retained, then we may have a loosing record too, we had one of the worst Ds in entire NFL last season. Manning alone isn't able to win SB or taking the team into playoffs on his back. Our O-line had problems too. With Manning and almost 0 free cap space we had no chance to build a capable team around him. 2010 season already was a struggle to reach even playoffs. We were not contenders.

Don't know what record we will have with Luck, but old days of glory are gone we have to look into the future.

Go Colts!

Don't forget we already had a FO change before Peyton was released. The biggest problem we had was no defense. That was already being changed if he was still here.

[Jules]

Till 95 in 95 and 96 we made the playoffs and were a game away from the super bowl in 95. The colts sold out several games during the harbaugh era not as many as Peyton clearly but a lot none the less.

I wouldn't mind a season like this in the next few years....

[media=]

[NewColtsFan]

If they signed the deal it would have given Peyton $28M at the time. When they sign the deal for Luck he gets $22M. I'm not discussing roster salaries because the concern at the time he wasn't even going to play. He wouldn't have gotten a roster paycheck if he wasn't capable of playing. So it's still is $28M locked to Peyton, $22M locked to Luck.

Yes if he made it to the regular season, he would be getting paid an extra $7M. He would have had to make it there which the concern was if he even could.

OK....

I've found the math error. You're writing Manning get's a $28 Mill bonus vs. Luck gets a $22 Mill bonus.

That's incorrect.

Manning's was all bonus. The salary was not factored in. Luck's 22 Mill is his bonus PLUS his 4 years of salary. Roughly $15 Mill up front and $7 Mill more in 4 years of salary. If Luck's numbers turn out to be $24 Mill, it will likely be $16Mill of Bonus and another $8 Mill for his 4-years of salary. All of Luck's money will be guaranteed, but not all of it will be a bonus paid up front. Manning's $28 Mill is all up front. Then, his yearly salaries follow. And they'll be guaranteed to some extent as his career unfolds.

There's the math problem. That's why we're not comparing apples to apples. Does this now make more sense?

[HtownColt]

If the team picks up the option bonus on a players contract it's like a signing bonus it's all guaranteed. But you don't get the whole thing at once a option bonus is spread out over the years just like a signing bonus. In manhunts case he wouldn't just get a fat $28million dollar check that day. It just means they picked up your option and you get the rest of your guaranteed money(option bonus are usually called two tiered contracts) here is some links breaking it down.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2002-09-19-bonus_x.htm

And this link breaks down how a front office will spread out your signing bonus/option bonus over the years to stay under the cap. You can start at question 1.7 if you just wanna hear about signing/option bonuses.1.7e shows how they break it down

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/FAQ.aspx

[Gavin]

If they signed the deal it would have given Peyton $28M at the time. When they sign the deal for Luck he gets $22M. I'm not discussing roster salaries because the concern at the time he wasn't even going to play. He wouldn't have gotten a roster paycheck if he wasn't capable of playing. So it's still is $28M locked to Peyton, $22M locked to Luck.

Yes if he made it to the regular season, he would be getting paid an extra $7M. He would have had to make it there which the concern was if he even could.

Still saying it's possible. In 20 years they made the playoffs three times. They isn't great.

History repeats itself.

Don't forget we already had a FO change before Peyton was released. The biggest problem we had was no defense. That was already being changed if he was still here.

if he was still here we wouldnt have been able to afford the changes

[Gavin]

Mannings wasn't an option bonus from the wording I have read it was a roster bonus

[HtownColt]

OK....

I've found the math error. You're writing Manning get's a $28 Mill bonus vs. Luck gets a $22 Mill bonus.

That's incorrect.

Manning's was all bonus. The salary was not factored in. Luck's 22 Mill is his bonus PLUS his 4 years of salary. Roughly $15 Mill up front and $7 Mill more in 4 years of salary. If Luck's numbers turn out to be $24 Mill, it will likely be $16Mill of Bonus and another $8 Mill for his 4-years of salary. All of Luck's money will be guaranteed, but not all of it will be a bonus paid up front. Manning's $28 Mill is all up front. Then, his yearly salaries follow. And they'll be guaranteed to some extent as his career unfolds.

There's the math problem. That's why we're not comparing apples to apples. Does this now make more sense?

I bet Luck has an option bonus in his contract as well(more cap friendly) he gets his $16 million signing bonus then the colts have a $8 million option bonus which is like a signing bonus if picked up that's your $24 million guaranteed. And as I said before you just don't get a fat $16 million dollar check all at once, it's spread out over the years for cap space but it's still all guaranteed

[HtownColt]

Mannings wasn't an option bonus from the wording I have read it was a roster bonus

That's the same thing(tomato,tomato)..if they picked up the option he is still on the roster. It's the same thing just a different wording. If they cut you that means they didn't pick up the option and your not on the roster.

[Jules]

:cloud9: :star: :sun:

Let us all think positive.

[Fx Stryker]

I'm just pointing out this is all because youse aren't willing to accept the fact someone isn't ready to jump onto the bandwagon and call it the right decision at this point. Never said it was wrong. Just we don't know if it was right.

if he was still here we wouldnt have been able to afford the changes

The $60M and some next year says differently. With Manning it's still around $50M.

[Gavin]

That's the same thing(tomato,tomato)..if they picked up the option he is still on the roster. It's the same thing just a different wording. If they cut you that means they didn't pick up the option and your not on the roster.

Nut he still had a year left in which he was do that 28 million that last year from all reports I read and heard,

[HtownColt]

Nut he still had a year left in which he was do that 28 million that last year from all reports I read and heard,

Wasnt that a 5 year contract he signed last year so how was he going into his last year..Not if Irsay didn't pick up the option which Irsay didn't..even if Irsay picked up the option manning wouldn't get $28 million that year..all that means he gets $28 million guaranteed spreaded out over the remaining years of his contract. Roster bonus,option bonus samething

[braveheartcolt]

Manning is gone. Luck is the future. What happens next is all the matters. Petty squabbling won't get Manning back, prove Irsay was a fool or make Luck become a bust.

Some people want Luck to fail so they can hold their precious Manning in even higher esteem. Some hope Manning flops in Denver to prove Irsay was a genius.

All pointless bunkum.

[ruksak]

I see the drama hasn't subsided since last I was here......

[Dan]

I see the drama hasn't subsided since last I was here......

It pretty much has. It's only a select minority who still feel the need to spread negativity and moan about Peyton leaving even though it's over and done now.

[ruksak]

It pretty much has. It's only a select minority who still feel the need to spread negativity and moan about Peyton leaving even though it's over and done now.

i c

Hopefully a few early season wins will put an end to all that.

[mark5362]

1. I'm just glad where not playing cover 2 defense anymore 2, luck will be a great qb.

[TKnight24]

Did you travel to the future? If you did please tell me how.

We have yet to see if it was the right call or not.

Why are you trying to Knock him for his Viewpoint?? All he's doing is telling us how he feels about the whole thing. If you don't agree with it, then that's between you & your Feelings. Don't sit here & try to put him down just for giving his Opinion. And stop throwing salt towards Andrew Luck. He will be Fine. If you think soo Poorly of him & think he'll be a Bust...maybe you should switch Teams. If he's a Bust, then only the LOYAL & TRUE Fans will stick around. You stick with your team through the Ups & Downs, not just the Ups. Be more Optimistic in Life, it'll make you a better Individual

[TKnight24]

1. I'm just glad where not playing cover 2 defense anymore 2, luck will be a great qb.

Yes! I totally agree with you. lol It's time the Secondary got PHYSICAL at the Line. Not 8 yards later when the WR has already caught the Ball -_-

[TKnight24]

i c

Hopefully a few early season wins will put an end to all that.

It's not Drama, it's just Negativity. People are expecting too much from Andrew on his 1st Year. Like sheesh, he just got to Mini-Camp yesterday. Give him a chance to learn the ropes before they make Judgements on him

[Nadine]

While I'm sorry to see that this circular debate has been revived.........I am happy to see that everyone is......mostly being civil

Thanks everyone

[Gramz]

While I'm sorry to see that this circular debate has been revived.........I am happy to see that everyone is......mostly being civil

Thanks everyone

It's kind of like Groundhog day (the movie)... isn't it?

Hopefully, like the movie, all will end well and on a happy note :disco:

[Superman]

Wasnt that a 5 year contract he signed last year so how was he going into his last year..Not if Irsay didn't pick up the option which Irsay didn't..even if Irsay picked up the option manning wouldn't get $28 million that year..all that means he gets $28 million guaranteed spreaded out over the remaining years of his contract. Roster bonus,option bonus samething

I could be mistaken, but I'm 95% certain the option bonus of $28 million was real money to be paid in a lump sum. It would then be amortized over the life of the contract for cap purposes, but would have been paid in full in March.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I could be mistaken, but I'm 95% certain the option bonus of $28 million was real money to be paid in a lump sum. It would then be amortized over the life of the contract for cap purposes, but would have been paid in full in March.

You can bump that to 100%. It actually was included in the 2011 salary cap due to it being scheduled to be paid at the end of the 2011 league year. This is why there was a 5.6 credit applied to the 16 million acceleration of his original signing bonus.

[funktacious2]

If we hadn't gone 2-14 this would have never happened. I know the big issue here is getting rid of an uncertain Manning for a very promising rookie, but am I the only one who is just happy that this sparked a rebuild to make the entire team better. This is why I like Irsay. He knew that fans would be in outrage, but he realized that his beloved franchise was now a joke to people and he sincerely wanted to rebuild the team into a well balanced team overall. He brought in a new GM with a great track record, and a passionate coach like we've not scene in the last decade, we're seeing the kind of roster moves we've never seen and despite everyone's low expectation at the beginning of the offseason (most everyone was saying we'd have 4-wins or less), to building a serviceable team in just their first offseason. That's not even to mention the large cap room we're going to have in free agency with very few priority players to resign. Now most people on here are believing we've got the talent to as much as 5 games all the way to making the playoffs. We may struggle our first year under the new regime, but I truly believe that as early as next year we'll be a team that fans of other teams won't be delighted to see on their schedule. I have never been more excited for this team, and for them to prove that they're not a one man show.

[WSO]

FX Styker, why are you only comparing Mannings 28 Million bonus for one year vs. Lucks 22 Million (bonus + salary) for over 4 years? That is heavily skewed to make Mannings number look less significant. That's where you lost me. This is beating a dead horse anyways. We have what we have and if it doesn't pan out, oh well. % happens.

[Superman]

You can bump that to 100%. It actually was included in the 2011 salary cap due to it being scheduled to be paid at the end of the 2011 league year. This is why there was a 5.6 credit applied to the 16 million acceleration of his original signing bonus.

100%.

[Susie Q]

I see the drama hasn't subsided since last I was here......

It was pretty quite while you were gone until someone again. Will this ever end?

[NewColtsFan]

I bet Luck has an option bonus in his contract as well(more cap friendly) he gets his $16 million signing bonus then the colts have a $8 million option bonus which is like a signing bonus if picked up that's your $24 million guaranteed. And as I said before you just don't get a fat $16 million dollar check all at once, it's spread out over the years for cap space but it's still all guaranteed

I don't think that will be the case. There is the signing bonus and there are the salaries. With the new CBA, they've done away with a lot of the 'extras' and so-called 'escalator clauses' that made the value of contracts soar. And as for the $16 Mill signing bonus, to my knowledge, they're almost always paid upfront. Not spread out over years. The only thing that is spread out is the way they're valued, They're amortized so the 16 Mill basically counts 4 Mill per year over the 4 years of the contract.

There is a 5th year available. If the player pans out the team can exercise a 5th-year option. I think the player gets the value of of a top-10 player at this position. That is a lot of money. But that's at the team option.

Perhaps Superman can chime in on this....

[TKnight24]

If we hadn't gone 2-14 this would have never happened. I know the big issue here is getting rid of an uncertain Manning for a very promising rookie, but am I the only one who is just happy that this sparked a rebuild to make the entire team better. This is why I like Irsay. He knew that fans would be in outrage, but he realized that his beloved franchise was now a joke to people and he sincerely wanted to rebuild the team into a well balanced team overall. He brought in a new GM with a great track record, and a passionate coach like we've not scene in the last decade, we're seeing the kind of roster moves we've never seen and despite everyone's low expectation at the beginning of the offseason (most everyone was saying we'd have 4-wins or less), to building a serviceable team in just their first offseason. That's not even to mention the large cap room we're going to have in free agency with very few priority players to resign. Now most people on here are believing we've got the talent to as much as 5 games all the way to making the playoffs. We may struggle our first year under the new regime, but I truly believe that as early as next year we'll be a team that fans of other teams won't be delighted to see on their schedule. I have never been more excited for this team, and for them to prove that they're not a one man show.

Totally agree with you. Can't wait for the Season. Heck, I'll even look at the Pre-Season Games now that there's a Chance we'll actually "Try" lol

[Superman]

I don't think that will be the case. There is the signing bonus and there are the salaries. With the new CBA, they've done away with a lot of the 'extras' and so-called 'escalator clauses' that made the value of contracts soar. And as for the $16 Mill signing bonus, to my knowledge, they're almost always paid upfront. Not spread out over years. The only thing that is spread out is the way they're valued, They're amortized so the 16 Mill basically counts 4 Mill per year over the 4 years of the contract.

There is a 5th year available. If the player pans out the team can exercise a 5th-year option. I think the player gets the value of of a top-10 player at this position. That is a lot of money. But that's at the team option.

Perhaps Superman can chime in on this....

There are experts on this stuff; I'm not one of them. I have a loose knowledge, but nothing special. However, everything you've mentioned here seems to be look right. In general, when a player receives a signing bonus, that's all paid up front, and then amortized evenly over the life of the contract.

One thing that I'd say is that the signing bonus -- not just for rookies, but for any player, I believe -- can be paid in a couple of installments, if the two sides agree to that kind of plan (Freeney's deal in 2007 paid him an upfront bonus of $15 million, and then another bonus the following season of $15 million, which explains why his base salary was only $750k). And you can also structure contracts in non-conventional ways, like the Colts did with Manning, to monkey with the way the bonuses are amortized over the life of the contract, and to boost the amount of guaranteed money in the first couple years of the contract.

This is something that I think Bill Polian was a master of, but if he and Irsay had to do it again, maybe they would have made Manning's option bonus due April 1, that way it could have been negotiated. Having that bonus due in the 2011 league year instead of the 2012 league year made it impossible (per the prevailing interpretation of the CBA) to negotiate it after the last regular season game was played.

[FireJimCaldwell]

There are experts on this stuff; I'm not one of them. I have a loose knowledge, but nothing special. However, everything you've mentioned here seems to be look right. In general, when a player receives a signing bonus, that's all paid up front, and then amortized evenly over the life of the contract.

One thing that I'd say is that the signing bonus -- not just for rookies, but for any player, I believe -- can be paid in a couple of installments, if the two sides agree to that kind of plan (Freeney's deal in 2007 paid him an upfront bonus of $15 million, and then another bonus the following season of $15 million, which explains why his base salary was only $750k). And you can also structure contracts in non-conventional ways, like the Colts did with Manning, to monkey with the way the bonuses are amortized over the life of the contract, and to boost the amount of guaranteed money in the first couple years of the contract.

This is something that I think Bill Polian was a master of, but if he and Irsay had to do it again, maybe they would have made Manning's option bonus due April 1, that way it could have been negotiated. Having that bonus due in the 2011 league year instead of the 2012 league year made it impossible (per the prevailing interpretation of the CBA) to negotiate it after the last regular season game was played.

The signing bonuses can be split. I've never heard of that being done on a rookie contract, but I know that Manning's 2nd contract had a split bonus, due to Irsay having to come up with the funds to pay it. It was still all due in the same year, but it was split into 2 actual payments.

From everything I read, Irsay was happy to give Manning a 5 year 100 million fully guaranteed deal last off season and if he would have, then he would obviously still been here, because the cap penalties of cutting him and or trading him would have been unbearable and that it was Manning himself that insisted on the out clause of having a signing bonus and then having an option bonus, due to the uncertainty.

Of course at that point, Manning would still be here, they would have likely been forced to move the # 1 pick, even with the same moves that were made outside of Manning, imagine adding Blackmon and Decastro to the equation along with the rest of the draft and additional picks. The near future would've stocked, but that didn't happen. So basically Manning's insistence on the option bonus basically gave the Colts the opportunity to cut him with a smaller cap penalty.

A later date of say April 1st, might have been a better date in hindsight. The Colts would have had a small window into trading Manning, though the contract would have been slightly different with the Option Bonus not being due in 2011, so the cap penalty would have been the full 16 million, which would have limited a couple of the moves that have been made this offseason.

[Superman]

The signing bonuses can be split. I've never heard of that being done on a rookie contract, but I know that Manning's 2nd contract had a split bonus, due to Irsay having to come up with the funds to pay it. It was still all due in the same year, but it was split into 2 actual payments.

From everything I read, Irsay was happy to give Manning a 5 year 100 million fully guaranteed deal last off season and if he would have, then he would obviously still been here, because the cap penalties of cutting him and or trading him would have been unbearable and that it was Manning himself that insisted on the out clause of having a signing bonus and then having an option bonus, due to the uncertainty.

Of course at that point, Manning would still be here, they would have likely been forced to move the # 1 pick, even with the same moves that were made outside of Manning, imagine adding Blackmon and Decastro to the equation along with the rest of the draft and additional picks. The near future would've stocked, but that didn't happen. So basically Manning's insistence on the option bonus basically gave the Colts the opportunity to cut him with a smaller cap penalty.

A later date of say April 1st, might have been a better date in hindsight. The Colts would have had a small window into trading Manning, though the contract would have been slightly different with the Option Bonus not being due in 2011, so the cap penalty would have been the full 16 million, which would have limited a couple of the moves that have been made this offseason.

What would the cap penalty have been to release him?

[NewColtsFan]

I know signing bonuses can be split.... but I think that's much more for veterans than rookies...

Now, one rookie who may get a split bonus this year is Blackmon. They may put some provisions there to really earn it.

Staying out of trouble for 'x' of years and so on.... as an incentive.... that wouldn't surprise me at all...

But I think the vast majority of rookie bonuses are paid in one lump sum. Especially in light of the fact that all rookie contracts have been dramatically cut, especially the bonuses.....