Now that the dust has settled.....

[FireJimCaldwell]

What would the cap penalty have been to release him?

Considering it was going to be 20 million a year.

4 x 20 would have been 80..

The only option at that point would have been treating him as a post 6/1 cut which would have given the 2012 cap hit a 20 million dead space charge, and then 60 million pushed into 2013, so that would absorbed all of the dead space that currently is in place coming off the books. Even at trying to do that it might be more financially responsible just to do it @ 20 a year until it's off the books.

Now the only thing I don't have a firm answer on is what would have happened if he had been forced to retire. If it was fully guaranteed against skill/injury then they might have been forced to carry the 20 million cap hit each year until they could get to year 3, and then do a 20 that year and 40 the next, but it would have been a really bad situation. I don't think there is any form of cap insurance to protect a team against a fully guaranteed contract, like these rookies are getting. Fortunately from a black & white monetary situation if the worst case scenario happened to one of them the team would only be on the hook for 22-24 million over the 4 years, so it could be dealt with.

If it was guaranteed against anything but the injury, then they would have likely been able to escape the final 4 years, but that would depend on the language of what it was and wasn't guaranteed against. Like Manning's current contract, for 2014, once his option for 2013 is picked up 2014 is guaranteed against everything except another neck/arm issue. ACL, he's still getting paid, so it would all depend on the language in the individual contract.

If the contract would have been staggered, yet still guaranteed, say 7, 18, 25, 25, 25, then it would have been even worse..

[ztboiler]

Wait what? The right decision doesn't always work out? Then it would be the wrong decision. Please tell you realize the contradiction in your statement. The best outcome for a franchise is to win. So if his decision ends up with us back in the cellar again, it wasn't the best now was it?

I do see your view of things now in regards to prior teams.

IF Luck doesn't pan out everyone will regret letting Peyton go. It's just a truth.

You can get a great result from making a terrible decision or a terrible result from a great decision. I'll take the GM and Owner who make a great decision every time.

[dw49]

What would the cap penalty have been to release him?

The cap hit would have been another 28 million. I haven't read through this whole thread as it's painfull to keep reading how most here have no idea of what Luck's cost will be and just post total crap when they could take a couple minutes and read what is really the cost. Really isn't rocket science. So I'm assuming youre asking what would have been the cap hit for Manning if the "escape clause" was not added to his contract ? If that's the case it would have been the 28 million that went from guaranteed to not guranteed if Manning was released in the specified time frame.

[dw49]

Considering it was going to be 20 million a year.

4 x 20 would have been 80..

The only option at that point would have been treating him as a post 6/1 cut which would have given the 2012 cap hit a 20 million dead space charge, and then 60 million pushed into 2013, so that would absorbed all of the dead space that currently is in place coming off the books. Even at trying to do that it might be more financially responsible just to do it @ 20 a year until it's off the books.

Now the only thing I don't have a firm answer on is what would have happened if he had been forced to retire. If it was fully guaranteed against skill/injury then they might have been forced to carry the 20 million cap hit each year until they could get to year 3, and then do a 20 that year and 40 the next, but it would have been a really bad situation. I don't think there is any form of cap insurance to protect a team against a fully guaranteed contract, like these rookies are getting. Fortunately from a black & white monetary situation if the worst case scenario happened to one of them the team would only be on the hook for 22-24 million over the 4 years, so it could be dealt with.

If it was guaranteed against anything but the injury, then they would have likely been able to escape the final 4 years, but that would depend on the language of what it was and wasn't guaranteed against. Like Manning's current contract, for 2014, once his option for 2013 is picked up 2014 is guaranteed against everything except another neck/arm issue. ACL, he's still getting paid, so it would all depend on the language in the individual contract.

If the contract would have been staggered, yet still guaranteed, say 7, 18, 25, 25, 25, then it would have been even worse..

If you are saying that it was a 100 mill. contract and he had 4 years left on it and the cap hit would have been the 80 million eft on the contract... that is just not even close to how the cap and contracts worfk. maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sure appearfs to be what you are saying....

[FireJimCaldwell]

If you are saying that it was a 100 mill. contract and he had 4 years left on it and the cap hit would have been the 80 million eft on the contract... that is just not even close to how the cap and contracts worfk. maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sure appearfs to be what you are saying....

As you said in your previous post, you didn't read through the whole thread, so maybe you missed parts that explain the post that you just quoted.

Irsay was wanting to give him a 5 year deal worth 100 million with 100% of it guaranteed. If he were cut, that money would not vanish.

[dw49]

As you said in your previous post, you didn't read through the whole thread, so maybe you missed parts that explain the post that you just quoted.

Irsay was wanting to give him a 5 year deal worth 100 million with 100% of it guaranteed. If he were cut, that money would not vanish.

I never read that Irsay wanted to give him 100 mill guaranteed. If true than you are correct.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I never read that Irsay wanted to give him 100 mill guaranteed. If true than you are correct.

That was the basis of breaking it down like that.

[dw49]

That was the basis of breaking it down like that.

Agree. Like I said , I just got sick of reading about how Luck was costing as much as Manning and was too painfull to keep going. If all the money was guaranteed , the simple math would be everything not paid that was guaranteed is the future cap hit.

[Superman]

Considering it was going to be 20 million a year.

4 x 20 would have been 80..

The only option at that point would have been treating him as a post 6/1 cut which would have given the 2012 cap hit a 20 million dead space charge, and then 60 million pushed into 2013, so that would absorbed all of the dead space that currently is in place coming off the books. Even at trying to do that it might be more financially responsible just to do it @ 20 a year until it's off the books.

Now the only thing I don't have a firm answer on is what would have happened if he had been forced to retire. If it was fully guaranteed against skill/injury then they might have been forced to carry the 20 million cap hit each year until they could get to year 3, and then do a 20 that year and 40 the next, but it would have been a really bad situation. I don't think there is any form of cap insurance to protect a team against a fully guaranteed contract, like these rookies are getting. Fortunately from a black & white monetary situation if the worst case scenario happened to one of them the team would only be on the hook for 22-24 million over the 4 years, so it could be dealt with.

If it was guaranteed against anything but the injury, then they would have likely been able to escape the final 4 years, but that would depend on the language of what it was and wasn't guaranteed against. Like Manning's current contract, for 2014, once his option for 2013 is picked up 2014 is guaranteed against everything except another neck/arm issue. ACL, he's still getting paid, so it would all depend on the language in the individual contract.

If the contract would have been staggered, yet still guaranteed, say 7, 18, 25, 25, 25, then it would have been even worse..

That's what I thought. That's crazy.

As you said earlier, at Manning's insistence, the clause that allowed him to be released was added to the contract. It worked out okay for him, and I think it will work out okay for the Colts in the long run. But that's still a very ironic set of circumstances.

[FireJimCaldwell]

That's what I thought. That's crazy.

As you said earlier, at Manning's insistence, the clause that allowed him to be released was added to the contract. It worked out okay for him, and I think it will work out okay for the Colts in the long run. But that's still a very ironic set of circumstances.

Yeah, it will be one that he himself might second guess at some point, and fans will wonder what if for eternity as well.

[jjcolts]

Does it even matter at this point, wrong or not?

[Superman]

Yeah, it will be one that he himself might second guess at some point, and fans will wonder what if for eternity as well.

Fans will, of course. This thread (and the myriad others we'll see over the next year) is evidence to that.

As for Manning, I think he's content with his present circumstances. As much as I hate what happened -- and I understand all the reasons for it, football-wise and money-wise -- I'm glad that Manning is where he is, and I'm happy with the way he got there. If he really is ready to play at a high level come September, the Broncos will be a very good team, probably better than the Colts would have been under the circumstances. I also wonder if Irsay would have cleaned house the way he did if he intended to keep Manning, which could mean that your username would still be relevant.

[southwest1]

It's kind of like Groundhog day (the movie)... isn't it?

Hopefully, like the movie, all will end well and on a happy note :disco:

I've said it before & I'll say it again. Even if Andrew Luck struggles initially, please be civil & do not shout profanity or sling death threats his direction. I saw this firsthand with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay & I don't want a duplicate encore to transpire in Indianapolis either.

Fans in INDY are world class citizens with great demeanor & integrity & I don't foresee any problems, but sometimes high expectations in light of Peyton Manning's winning percentage can lead to unrealistic expectations on a rookie who will inevitably hit a wall during the season. Please be patient with Andrew Luck. There is always a period of adjustment from college to the NFL.

Regarding the film "Groundhog Day" starring Bill Murray, re-release it in theatres, call it a sequel, and see if people get the joke. Hey, it works for film maker George Lucas right?

[Gramz]

I've said it before & I'll say it again. Even if Andrew Luck struggles initially, please be civil & do not shout profanity or sling death threats his direction. I saw this firsthand with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay & I don't want a duplicate encore to transpire in Indianapolis either.

Fans in INDY are world class citizens with great demeanor & integrity & I don't foresee any problems, but sometimes high expectations in light of Peyton Manning's winning percentage can lead to unrealistic expectations on a rookie who will inevitably hit a wall during the season. Please be patient with Andrew Luck. There is always a period of adjustment from college to the NFL.

Regarding the film "Groundhog Day" starring Bill Murray, re-release it in theatres, call it a sequel, and see if people get the joke. Hey, it works for film maker George Lucas right?

Hey SW1, I'm always civil, and never any name-callling.. a little here and there, but always in good fun, and I agree with your sentiments. Patience people.

[southwest1]

Hey SW1, I'm always civil, and never any name-callling.. a little here and there, but always in good fun, and I agree with your sentiments. Patience people.

Yes, you are Gramz and we all admire and respect you for that myself included. Your sense of humor is top notch too I might add.

Gramz, the trusted and esteemed matriarch of Colts Forum who keeps us all on our best behavior myself included. When she speaks, people listen as they should. It's called wisdom plain and simple.

[Gramz]

Yes, you are Gramz and we all admire and respect you for that myself included. Your sense of humor is top notch too I might add.

Gramz, the trusted and esteemed matriarch of Colts Forum who keeps us all on our best behavior myself included. When she speaks, people listen as they should. It's called wisdom plain and simple.

thanks SW1, this is a surefire way for the hatemail to come my way

[southwest1]

thanks SW1, this is a surefire way for the hatemail to come my way

Just forward all your hate mail my way, I will deal with any "boat rockers" that attempt to capsize your Kayak.

I guess that makes me the Head of the Gramz Fan Club. All your other friends on here have your back as well too Gramz.

[COLT in J-ville]

Wait what? The right decision doesn't always work out? Then it would be the wrong decision. Please tell you realize the contradiction in your statement. The best outcome for a franchise is to win. So if his decision ends up with us back in the cellar again, it wasn't the best now was it?

I do see your view of things now in regards to prior teams.

IF Luck doesn't pan out everyone will regret letting Peyton go. It's just a truth.

If you can't know if you made the right decision or not until later down the road, then how can anyone ever really make decisions? Under those assertions, we would all just be taking a guess. The reality is, Irsay made the safest and most logical decision for his franchise based on the circumstances. Let's just leave it at that and realize that hindsight never comes first.

[John Dee]

If anyone truly believes they think they will still back the decision if he is a bust you are all in denial. It's just realistic. No one will say "Oh well that didn't work out, but glad we did it."

Hindsight is always 20/20 .....

[FireJimCaldwell]

Hindsight is always 20/20 .....

Truth be told, it is far better vision than that.

[John Dee]

Truth be told, it is far better vision than that.

You got that right.... Tom Brady anyone? Passed on 6 times.................. By every team in the league, but one.

The draft is no exact science. One can only go on the info available at the time. And hope for the best.