Coach Steichen

[Colt.45]

Thoughts on the man, and the job he's done so far. Buying him?

[csmopar]

27 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Thoughts on the man, and the job he's done so far. Buying him?

Far too early. But he’s definitely an upgrade. 

[RollerColt]

Super early but I think he’s doing a good job considering the circumstances. The offense is much more efficient this year. 

[kymd82222]

I voted good, and that's an accomplishment considering it's his rookie year.  I think he has the potential to be very good.  

[Scott Pennock]

Accountable

 

Energetic

 

Leader

 

Progressive play designer and caller

 

Uses the assets he has versus forcing his assets to fit in

 

Still learning the when to be Uber aggressive vs take the points or punt

 

Players ‘seem’ to believe in him

 

Should be the type of coach that ‘could’ draw free agents 

[compuls1v3]

I said good because he's still new and is making some mistakes.   That said,  scoring over 20+ in every game and putting 38 on Cleveland was impressive.   Also,  we've been in every game.   I hope him and AR can lead us to SB, but we gotta make the playoffs first.  If we do that without AR, I'd say he is a wizard.  Also gotta cleanup the penalties. 

[jvan1973]

Too soon to tell.   He is figuring it out.   I love the aggressive approach though

[shakedownstreet]

How good is Steichen? That depends on Minshew & Richardson

 

Just look at all the HOF'ers surrounding Manning, Brady, etc

[Solid84]

Depends on our QB situation going forward.

 

Look at Belichick without Brady.

Look at Payton without Brees.

 

If AR turns out to be the real deal we will be contenders.

[Pelt]

I loved the way Steichen tore into the refs regarding those late flags. Contrast that to how Reich would have reacted.

[MarylandTerrapin]

Shane is much better than Reich - I gave him a "Good" only because I question his strategy a few times this season (see my other posts).  Just take the points when they are readily available and don't be afraid to punt the ball when the situation calls for it.  The good news is that Shane does have a high ceiling and he holds players, and himself, accountable.

[#12.]

He shows signs of being good, but he's a rookie.  Situationally speaking, he has to get better.  Being boring in spots can win you games.  Manning/Dungy were boring and machine like in similar spots, but walked away with the W more often than not.  

[Colt.45]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

He shows signs of being good, but he's a rookie.  Situationally speaking, he has to get better.  Being boring in spots can win you games.  Manning/Dungy were boring and machine like in similar spots, but walked away with the W more often than not.  

 

This is true.

Must be said though that back then, there were many who wished Dungy would be a bit more spicy/dynamic esp. in the playoffs. Ditto 18. 

[FanFromtheWasteland]

2 hours ago, Pelt said:

I loved the way Steichen tore into the refs regarding those late flags. Contrast that to how Reich would have reacted.

Or Caldwell

[stitches]

10 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Too soon to tell.   He is figuring it out.   I love the aggressive approach though

Same. If I had to choose one right now, it would be on the upper end of expectations, but I thought the same early with Reich too, so... At least Reich had Luck early which might have masked a lot of issues, while Steichen is doing wonders with Gardner Minshew and not particularly amazing/established weapons. 

[jemack]

Good: But he needs to lobby Irsay for a larger payout to the refs. This should come with more experience. 😆

[Nickster]

The revisionist history/Reich villification on here is striking.  

 

When Frank Reich had someone other than Jacoby Brisett, Matt Ryan, and Sam Ehlinger at QB, his teams put up 27.1 ppg in 2018, 28.2 in 2020, and 26.5 in 2021.

 

Shane Steichan's team has put up 25.4 ppg so far this season.

 

Can someone please explain to me how putting up 25.4 ppg is so much better than putting up more points in the other seasons like Reich did?  

 

I don't understand that equation.  I'm not a math major though. 

[Solid84]

30 minutes ago, Nickster said:

The revisionist history/Reich villification on here is striking.  

 

When Frank Reich had someone other than Jacoby Brisett, Matt Ryan, and Sam Ehlinger at QB, his teams put up 27.1 ppg in 2018, 28.2 in 2020, and 26.5 in 2021.

 

Shane Steichan's team has put up 25.4 ppg so far this season.

 

Can someone please explain to me how putting up 25.4 ppg is so much better than putting up more points in the other seasons like Reich did?  

 

I don't understand that equation.  I'm not a math major though. 

It's likely got something to do with more than just points.

 

Frank's teams were never prepared at the beginning of the season.

Frank has a history of very questionable decisions from playcalling to game management.

Frank was one of the people (if not THE one) who pounded the table for Wentz.

Frank's team crapped the bed in two win-and-in games in a row - goes back to poor preparation.

Frank's teams have never won in Jacksonville.

 

I'm not saying Steichen is perfect and some people are already calling him out. I'd like for a rookie coach on a team having an evaluation year to have a longer leash than Reich...

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

It's likely got something to do with more than just points.

 

Frank's teams were never prepared at the beginning of the season.

Frank has a history of very questionable decisions from playcalling to game management.

Frank was one of the people (if not THE one) who pounded the table for Wentz.

Frank's team crapped the bed in two win-and-in games in a row - goes back to poor preparation.

Frank's teams have never won in Jacksonville.

 

I'm not saying Steichen is perfect and some people are already calling him out. I'd like for a rookie coach on a team having an evaluation year to have a longer leash than Reich...

 

 

Frank's teams were 40-33-1 while he was here including a year with Jacoby Brisett and Matt Ehlinger Sam Ryan.  That's pretty impressive.

 

Someone was talking about the offense's output, but Reich's offenses were better.

 

I am not against Shane at all.  I wasn't a Reich fan, thought he was too soft, espicially after watching Hard Knocks, but I think a lot of the specific criticsim is unfounded.  He did pretty well here on offense.   He also made the playoffs 2 out of the 3 times he didn't have Ryan or Brissett at QB and was one overthrown wide open receiver away from making it in the other season.

 

He did OK here without stability at the most important position and bad/mediocre defenses. 

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

It's likely got something to do with more than just points.

 

Frank's teams were never prepared at the beginning of the season.

Frank has a history of very questionable decisions from playcalling to game management.

Frank was one of the people (if not THE one) who pounded the table for Wentz.

Frank's team crapped the bed in two win-and-in games in a row - goes back to poor preparation.

Frank's teams have never won in Jacksonville.

 

I'm not saying Steichen is perfect and some people are already calling him out. I'd like for a rookie coach on a team having an evaluation year to have a longer leash than Reich...

 

And Frankly (lol get it?), this team seems alot like that one that just missed the post season under Frank.  Just good enough to make it interesting, not good enough to get it done.

 

I like some of what I'm seeing, but like others maybe including you, it depends on #5 or if he doesn't pan out, his replacement.

 

I really hope that we select a 2nd QB if we get a good enough pick.  You could trade AR for a mint if you wanted to try that right now.  Or you could trade the other guy in a year or two like Belechik did a couple of times. 

I'm not convinced about AR either from a play or health standpoint.   I don't see a good reason not to buy another lottery ticket here.  There is nothing that AR did in his limited time on the field that made me think he's going to be good enough.  I like some of what I saw, but others looked like the inaccuracy he showed at FL.

[Nickster]

I will say this about Steichan though, we start putting up 30-40 pts. every week, I'll become a quick believer.

This game was strange from beginning to end.  Many of the plays we made seemed to be blown assignments.  This D was so impressive and was just embarrased Sunday with an all time type of perfomance by Garret.  

 

I remember Downs being wide open in the zone defense a few times, including the first TD which was a blown coverage for sure.  Like not he got separation wide open, like there wasn't anyone to separate from wide open.  The Pittman TD was just really bad physical D.  Good play for Pitt, but he shook off his traling DB and the middle of the field looked crowded but somehow he got out of there and got the long TD.  The Browns have to make a tackle there and Pittman did well but it was more bad tackling than what he did.

 

But we ran well and Minshew picked people out and ran well too.  Very impressive offense outside the turnovers.  We were pretty unlucky going 0-3 on those fumble recoverie too. 

[John Waylon]

Overall I like what I see. A definite improvement over frank. I’m still in the good camp. Sometimes I feel like we’re a little too cute, and some of the 4th down decisions and the play calls have bothered me. We’re not a team ready for 4th down, especially if these are the plays we’re going to call in those situations. I have been incredibly underwhelmed by the playcalling on 4th down this season. Just a few weeks ago we were top 5 in attempts and bottom 3 in conversions.

 

It seems they’re approaching 4th down a little less aggressively in the last couple weeks, however, and that’s made it less of an issue. 
 

I’m satisfied. I wish we had gotten a better look at how he fostered Richardson’s growth this season but oh well. 
 

I fully expect to make a run for a division title next year already. Fully expect it. 

[chad72]

Bottom line - when Frank Reich came in here in 2018, he was a breath of fresh air over Pagano and he had Luck. Everyone was excited, we went to the playoffs. But then, the true testament only comes with time and his offenses got stale and predictable, so we wanted change.

 

Steichen's calling card is developing young ones. Let us all give Steichen 3 years before we make the comparison. Having vets or experienced ones like Luck, Rivers, and even Wentz to an extent can bring a higher floor to an offense than having a rookie like AR and his backup Minshew. Game management will catch up and be improvised upon with experience.

 

For folks railing on Reich's game management, everyone can clearly see the workload of being an OC and HC is not the same as just being an OC like Steichen has been before this year, so similar mistakes are happening.

 

Very very small sample space and any type of conclusions are premature. If Steichen has a .500 record after 3 years, he won't be an upgrade, would he? Right now, he seems to be pushing the right buttons and we are viewing it from the lens of "yes, the play calls are good, the energy is good" but ultimately, we all understand it is a bottom line business with the W-Ls meaning more.

 

 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

And Frankly (lol get it?), this team seems alot like that one that just missed the post season under Frank.  Just good enough to make it interesting, not good enough to get it done.

 

I like some of what I'm seeing, but like others maybe including you, it depends on #5 or if he doesn't pan out, his replacement.

 

I really hope that we select a 2nd QB if we get a good enough pick.  You could trade AR for a mint if you wanted to try that right now.  Or you could trade the other guy in a year or two like Belechik did a couple of times. 

I'm not convinced about AR either from a play or health standpoint.   I don't see a good reason not to buy another lottery ticket here.  There is nothing that AR did in his limited time on the field that made me think he's going to be good enough.  I like some of what I saw, but others looked like the inaccuracy he showed at FL.

I think we're close to the '21 team, but the Oline is worse at Run blocking at least, our CBs are inexperienced and of course AR is missing.

 

I'm not ready to give up on AR and short of us somehow getting the #1 overall I wouldn't even entertain the idea of drafting another QB in the first round. Even then I'd still rather trade the pick for a king's ransom than draft Williams if I had to make the decision right now.

[hoosierhawk]

I gave him a very good up to this point. Granted a small sample size at this point but a breath of fresh air compared to Frank. Watching our offense is quit exciting compared to the predictability we saw in the past. Long way to go for a Super Bowl but very good up to this point considering a very weak secondary and OL being banged up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[smittywerb]

Currently, he’s a good HC.  He gets extra points for being a rookie.  Like his play designs, playcalling is usually good despite having some bad ones sometimes.  Seems to have gotten our offense rolling without one of our dynamic players at the most important position.  Team has a lot of penalties and turnovers lately so hopefully he fixes that.  But other than that, he’s definitely been better than Reich.  Even when Reich had good qbs, I think Shane would’ve done better with them.

 

In the future, I think he’ll be very good.  Once he gets all the pieces he wants and build the team his way, I think we will see his full potential.  

[twfish]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

The revisionist history/Reich villification on here is striking.  

 

When Frank Reich had someone other than Jacoby Brisett, Matt Ryan, and Sam Ehlinger at QB, his teams put up 27.1 ppg in 2018, 28.2 in 2020, and 26.5 in 2021.

 

Shane Steichan's team has put up 25.4 ppg so far this season.

 

Can someone please explain to me how putting up 25.4 ppg is so much better than putting up more points in the other seasons like Reich did?  

 

I don't understand that equation.  I'm not a math major though. 

Reich is sitting at a very pretty 18.6 ppg this year, Colts are ranked 6th in scoring so far and the Panthers are 23rd. You're not accounting for how the league has had less scoring this year then they have in years. The prior years offensive ranking (scoring) are as the following 

22 #30

21 #9

20 #9

19 #16

18 #5 *with Luck

 

So looking at it yes Steichen so far has been better. Our defense has been letting us down.

 

[Nickster]

50 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I think we're close to the '21 team, but the Oline is worse at Run blocking at least, our CBs are inexperienced and of course AR is missing.

 

I'm not ready to give up on AR and short of us somehow getting the #1 overall I wouldn't even entertain the idea of drafting another QB in the first round. Even then I'd still rather trade the pick for a king's ransom than draft Williams if I had to make the decision right now.

 

Just to clarify,  I’m not out on AR.  It didn’t read they way I meant it.  What I mean is I haven’t seen anything that makes me believe he’s like our for sure thing guy.  There are plenty of things that make it look like he could develop, but plenty of others that don’t IMO.

 

I don’t judge college talent but Williams is pretty highly regarded.  If we were in a position to draft him I think I would go with him and trade AR who would bring I think multiple picks.  He is just a very in accurate thrower of the FB.  Williams has a lot of polish and looks like a great prospect.  
 

But you could keep both.  I’m not convinced that the rushing of QBs getting right in is always the best method.  You could keep both, see what you thought in practice and wait a year before deciding what to do.  I think we’d make out like bandits in that scenario.

 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Reich is sitting at a very pretty 18.6 ppg this year, Colts are ranked 6th in scoring so far and the Panthers are 23rd. You're not accounting for how the league has had less scoring this year then they have in years. The prior years offensive ranking (scoring) are as the following 

22 #30

21 #9

20 #9

19 #16

18 #5 *with Luck

 

So looking at it yes Steichen so far has been better. Our defense has been letting us down.

 

I think using Reichs ppg this year is not a good comparison because it’s totally different and the QB looks like he’s in over his head right now.

 

reich had a good record here and his offenses were good.  I don’t understand the SS is better thing. 
 

He’s got a worse record.  This team may develop or it might fall flat.  AR might develop or he might hamstring the club for a while.  Reich had the same record last year BTW before he was forced to start Slinging Sammy as Steichen has this year.  Before yesterday’s game we were averaging 21 ppg, correction 23 ppg.

 

Now if we start throwing 35 a game around for the next few weeks, I’d change my mind too.

 

I don’t dislike SS but I don’t think there is any clear evidence that he’s better than FR yet.

 

And our D was really good in the  3 wins holding teams to 18 ppg.  The o wasn’t great in any of those contests.

[John Waylon]

How good a time are Panthers fans having with frank?

 

Rhetorical question. 
 

They’re not. Already. 
 

And that should end our portion of the thread on frank and his nonsense. 

[Nickster]

27 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

How good a time are Panthers fans having with frank?

 

Rhetorical question. 
 

They’re not. Already. 
 

And that should end our portion of the thread on frank and his nonsense. 

They are having about the same time that had last year at 1-5 and 3-8.  After that they went 4-2, then traded their stud WR and a treasure trove of picks to get Young who doesn’t look good at all.  Like At all.

 

Maybe it’s Frank not developing him, but it might be Young nit being good too.

 

But what he’s doing this year is irrelevant to the topic IMO.  
 

If Young is a bust that org is in a similar boat as Denver and the Bears are going to get a lot of very high picks the next 3 years.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Little to early to tell but Steichen might be the new Shanahan. Whatever QB he has makes them look good. Minshew has looked good minus the turnovers. 

[John Waylon]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

They are having about the same time that had last year at 1-5 and 3-8.  After that they went 4-2, then traded their stud WR and a treasure trove of picks to get Young who doesn’t look good at all.  Like At all.

 

Maybe it’s Frank not developing him, but it might be Young nit being good too.

 

But what he’s doing this year is irrelevant to the topic IMO.  
 

If Young is a bust that org is in a similar boat as Denver and the Bears are going to get a lot of very high picks the next 3 years.

 

I didn’t start the frank discourse. I said Steichen is better than he is because why would I not acknowledge the obvious? But there’s been some talk of him in this thread and the point of my question was to point out no matter who wants to defend him, how they want to do it, and why, the stink of being a cruddy coach has followed him. 
 

The Panthers fans I warned that this was coming are not having a good time with him at all. 

[Nickster]

18 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

 

I didn’t start the frank discourse. I said Steichen is better than he is because why would I not acknowledge the obvious? But there’s been some talk of him in this thread and the point of my question was to point out no matter who wants to defend him, how they want to do it, and why, the stink of being a cruddy coach has followed him. 
 

The Panthers fans I warned that this was coming are not having a good time with him at all. 

I’m just comparing SS so far to FR with the Colts.  There isn’t much there statistically that supports SS being better as far as I can see.  
 

Before they emasculated Frank and forced him to play Slinging Sammy he was 3-4 just like SS. Correction.  fR was  actually slightly better at 3-3-1.  FR also had 3 Offenses score more than 26 ppg his 5 years here and averaged 23 with JB and Hoyerable.

 

He might be a great HC in the making, I just don’t see that what he’s shown so far is overly impressive.

 

Like I’ve said man.  This team starts throwing up 30+ ppg, I’ll change my mind quickly.

 

I thought Frank was too soft was my main issue with him.

[MarylandTerrapin]

3 hours ago, twfish said:

Reich is sitting at a very pretty 18.6 ppg this year, Colts are ranked 6th in scoring so far and the Panthers are 23rd. You're not accounting for how the league has had less scoring this year then they have in years. The prior years offensive ranking (scoring) are as the following 

22 #30

21 #9

20 #9

19 #16

18 #5 *with Luck

 

So looking at it yes Steichen so far has been better. Our defense has been letting us down.

 

 

I argue that our defensive woes can be attributed to the offense turning the ball over.  The Jags scored 37 points, but had under 300 yards of total offense.  The Browns scored 39 points with 316 yards of total offense.  The common thread was points off of turnovers.  Our D did hold both the Titans and Ravens under 20 points.  Our D has forced 10 turnovers, but our O has turned it over 12 times.   We need to get back on the plus side of the turnover ratio and the wins will follow.  

[twfish]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

I think using Reichs ppg this year is not a good comparison because it’s totally different and the QB looks like he’s in over his head right now.

 

reich had a good record here and his offenses were good.  I don’t understand the SS is better thing. 
 

He’s got a worse record.  This team may develop or it might fall flat.  AR might develop or he might hamstring the club for a while.  Reich had the same record last year BTW before he was forced to start Slinging Sammy as Steichen has this year.  Before yesterday’s game we were averaging 21 ppg, correction 23 ppg.

 

Now if we start throwing 35 a game around for the next few weeks, I’d change my mind too.

 

I don’t dislike SS but I don’t think there is any clear evidence that he’s better than FR yet.

 

And our D was really good in the  3 wins holding teams to 18 ppg.  The o wasn’t great in any of those contests.

Dude how’s it not a good comparison when that’s exactly what you did? We lost our starting QB but that’s not a worthy excuse? Reich’s play design wasn’t bad, his timing of the play calling was god awful and constantly got in his own way.

He was so predictable which is why in games we were supposed to win we couldn’t. He should have been fired immediately after the Jacksonville game with Wentz. He let the team get lazy, allowed players to miss practices. The team wasn’t disciplined and lacked any accountability. If you weren’t able to see any of that then were you actually watching the games or just looking at box scores?

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Dude how’s it not a good comparison when that’s exactly what you did? We lost our starting QB but that’s not a worthy excuse? Reich’s play design wasn’t bad, his timing of the play calling was god awful and constantly got in his own way.

He was so predictable which is why in games we were supposed to win we couldn’t. He should have been fired immediately after the Jacksonville game with Wentz. He let the team get lazy, allowed players to miss practices. The team wasn’t disciplined and lacked any accountability. If you weren’t able to see any of that then were you actually watching the games or just looking at box scores?

I don’t think comparing the Panthers this year to the Colts this year is as good as a comparison as the Colts this year to the Colts last year or even the year before that’s why fish.

 

You do?  Well if you do I disagree with you and I don’t understand your logic.  
 

We lost AR but he didn’t win a single game and I believe that loss doesn’t make us worse but actually a little better offensively .

 

I watched just about every play from ever game since 1996 some games multiple times.

 

With one of the worst QB years ever from Matt Ryan, Frank Reich was 500 at 3-3-1 last year with mostly the same personnel but a line that was unhealthy and playing way way worse.

 

If you want to get personal go somewhere else.  It’s boring. 
 

I think your logic is simplistic and sounds like a talking point.  
 

Reich’s teams were competitive with revolving QBs, scored more points, and made the post season twice with bad defenses and what I think is mediocre talent.

 

I don’t love the guy but he was scapegoated here.  What happened when he left?  Oh yeah we were the laughing stock of the league .

 

I don’t think anything is clear with SS here.  I think he is dealing with the same mediocre team that Frank was.  The results are similar.  

[Nickster]

is

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Dude how’s it not a good comparison when that’s exactly what you did? We lost our starting QB but that’s not a worthy excuse? Reich’s play design wasn’t bad, his timing of the play calling was god awful and constantly got in his own way.

He was so predictable which is why in games we were supposed to win we couldn’t. He should have been fired immediately after the Jacksonville game with Wentz. He let the team get lazy, allowed players to miss practices. The team wasn’t disciplined and lacked any accountability. If you weren’t able to see any of that then were you actually watching the games or just looking at box scores?

Now I’ve said he was soft and didn’t love him as a coach.  But his offenses did well and his teams were competitive.  Not sad he’s gone. 
 

SS might be good here or he might not.

 

But overall dude, it ain’t the Xs and the Os, it’s the Jimmys and the Joes.

 

But I don’t know if I’ve said it to you but let’s see if SS starts throwing up 30-35 per. Then I’d change my mind quickly.  Until this week we averages 23 ppg.  Same as Jacoby.  We torch the next couple of opponents then I’ll start evolving .

 

Right now, SS has done nothing special with this club IMo. And I’m not at all anti SS.

[Nickster]

Carolina averaged 20.4 last year then traded their beat player and starting an apparently unready or busty rookie.  The one game the rookie didn’t play they scored the most they have all year.

 

and btw, that was all from the box score.  Don’t remember watching a down of Pants FB lol.

 

you think the evidence is clear that SS is doing better or is it just a feeling you’re having?

 

I hope he ends up better but what I really hope we get better players.  That’s what I think will make a real difference.

[cbear]

I'm glad no one is calling for Steichen to be fired. That will come later. 

 

I'm not surprised the Frank Reich hate is still so strong. Once a whipping boy, always a whipping boy.