It’s time to move on from Shaq!

[GoColts8818]

This isn’t going to be popular but I am going to continue to say be patient.  This is a hard injury to comeback and yes it’s possible he might never comeback but this is something that might take up to a year to comeback from.  He wouldn’t be the first player to take a long time to get back to who he used to be after a major injury.  
 

There is no point to calling for his release now because the salary cap isn’t going to allow for it right now.  If he’s still struggling at the end of the year then yeah Ballard will have a decision to make, until then just be patient as not fun and hard as that maybe.  

 

It’s going to take playing to get back to his old self, at least that’s how it normally works for guys coming back from major injuries.  Also, it’s not like the Colts have someone better than him on the bench (Speed is already playing so Speed is getting his playing time right now.). 

[bestQBever]

I mean he wasn't even RUNNING until June. 3ish months back. Let the guy have half a season at least

[Nickster]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

How do we know it injury related?

 

Maybe he just sucks playing anything other than WILL in Flus' defense.

He really wasn’t great 2 years ago except for the * with the ball punching.  I think you might be right about him playing MLB in a 3.  Not his strong suit in any event.

 

EDit I tried to type tOs in the censored part .  I wander what autocorrect put int there lol.  Can’t figure it out.  Maybe Santa laughs.

[Hawkeyecolt]

Maybe he will regain the burst that allowed him to run around the field and cause fumbles but right now he’s an absolute liability on defense. His tackling has been horrible.  His drops in coverage are not good enough.  He’s never been particularly good at shedding blocks at 218 lbs.  Now he lacks any burst to be a difference maker. I would be just fine with him being an average LB this year as long as he made tackles when the opportunity presented itself.  

[r a y s k i]

It's incredible and sad to see how little faith fans have in the players they supposed to root for. 

It's week 4 *, why are we so afraid of setting realistic expectations for players.

This forum has been sad to read through the past few months.

[Dark Superman]

Shaq is whack. I want that Darius guy back.

[csmopar]

10 hours ago, IinD said:

C'mon now 4 games is all you need to see? 

 

I mean I get it but we aren't winning anything this year so I'm fine with him working his way back from a big injury.

 

I'm not saying I know he's great and he's back, simply how about half a year, maybe three quarters to see if he gets back to himself.

 

I totally get moving on after the season I just hate the talk about he's toast already.

No one is saying to cut him this minute. In fact, most are saying we need to move on after the season IF he still isn’t playing back to his old ways. 
 

the fact is, there’s been zero flashes of his old self in these four games is alarming

[coltsfan_canada]

and dont forget at the end of season Zaire n Speed are FA and specially Zaire will demand contract so question who will be kept we all know Ballard is good with picking LB.

[csmopar]

20 minutes ago, coltsfan_canada said:

and dont forget at the end of season Zaire n Speed are FA and specially Zaire will demand contract so question who will be kept we all know Ballard is good with picking LB.

Right now, Zaire and Speed I would extend. I would cut Leonard based on current play. 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I think the biggest concern would be scheme fit more so than his injury. However you’d like to see flashes. I think he’s been out so long it will take some time to shake the rust off, however I think that it’s more likely than not that he doesn’t fit in Gus’ scheme. He seems a bit lost out there as to what to do. It looks like he is hesitant out there also. Haven’t even seen him try and punch the ball loose, but he’s rarely by the ball carrier. 

[Mitch Connors]

4 hours ago, r a y s k i said:

It's incredible and sad to see how little faith fans have in the players they supposed to root for. 

It's week 4 *, why are we so afraid of setting realistic expectations for players.

This forum has been sad to read through the past few months.

 

Do you think right now, based on your realistic expectations for Leonard, that he should be taking snaps away from another healthy LB?

 

I mean based on his play; if Leonard isn't 100% then why is he out there? And also, if he is 100% then why is he out there?

[hoosierhawk]

16 hours ago, IinD said:

C'mon now 4 games is all you need to see? 

 

I mean I get it but we aren't winning anything this year so I'm fine with him working his way back from a big injury.

 

I'm not saying I know he's great and he's back, simply how about half a year, maybe three quarters to see if he gets back to himself.

 

I totally get moving on after the season I just hate the talk about he's toast already.

No doubt the Colts will give him a whole year as they have no choice. But as we saw yesterday they did take him off the field for most of the 2nd half as he is not the best choice we have at his particular position at the present time. He can get better on the practice field but he is a liability now. You say 4 weeks but I hope he was getting in shape and was working in preseason camp. I would think he is in at least his 4th  month of rehab/training camp/games.

[Nickster]

10 hours ago, csmopar said:

No one is saying to cut him this minute. In fact, most are saying we need to move on after the season IF he still isn’t playing back to his old ways. 
 

the fact is, there’s been zero flashes of his old self in these four games is alarming

0 flashes is a great way to put it

[Nickster]

9 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Do you think right now, based on your realistic expectations for Leonard, that he should be taking snaps away from another healthy LB?

 

I mean based on his play; if Leonard isn't 100% then why is he out there? And also, if he is 100% then why is he out there?

That last sentence is great man.

[Douzer]

I feel for Leonard. He watches the film with his teammates, every play, multiple angles. The silent reflection must be uncomfortable.

 

So, while I definitely believe Leonard has earned extended recovery time, playing time must be earned through productivity. 

[1959Colts]

Time for them to give Grant Stuard a few of Leonard's snaps just to get a comparison

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, 1959Colts said:

Time for them to give Grant Stuard a few of Leonard's snaps just to get a comparison

First, the Colts probably already have an idea of what this would look like.  They see these guys everyday in practice and eat and breathe football and film for a living.  They know their players.  
 

Second, if the Colts think that will help them they will do it.  One thing people have praised Shane for is willingness to bench guys to hold them accountable.  So if they don’t make that change it tells me they don’t think it’s the best thing for the team.

 

Third, if Shaq’s injury is like most big injuries the final part of the rehab he needs is probably playing time.  So as much as some don’t like it they are probably going to let him keep working through the injury to comeback.  It’s part of the rehab process.

[Kemisk]

12 hours ago, csmopar said:

Right now, Zaire and Speed I would extend. I would cut Leonard based on current play. 

Both will be FA’s in 2025

[1959Colts]

16 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

First, the Colts probably already have an idea of what this would look like.  They see these guys everyday in practice and eat and breathe football and film for a living.  They know their players.  
 

Second, if the Colts think that will help them they will do it.  One thing people have praised Shane for is willingness to bench guys to hold them accountable.  So if they don’t make that change it tells me they don’t think it’s the best thing for the team.

 

Third, if Shaq’s injury is like most big injuries the final part of the rehab he needs is probably playing time.  So as much as some don’t like it they are probably going to let him keep working through the injury to comeback.  It’s part of the rehab process.

We will see. Regardless of how people have praised Steichen for benching players, I have a feeling we wont see Stuard, unless Shaq gets some kind of injury (...which I could see happening) It's one thing for Steichen to bench a guy like Baker, but Leonard is another. Some big egos there. Both Shaq and Ballard. If Leonard continues on this path of mediocrity, then they really should do what is best for the team. Practice does not always show what a player could, or might do in a real game. And all it would take, is for Stuard to come in, occasionally, and show what he's got? ...and as for Shaq's rehab process, that should not come at the expense of winning or losing a game.

 

 

[Nickster]

 

Shaq doesn’t seem like he wants to or if able to lay the lumber anymore.  Just one hit on anyone even the ball boy at full game intensity would be encouraging. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

It’s sad to watch him play at this point. He’s playing timid and is avoiding any and all head contact which is understandable. He’s running around vs. taking a b-line to the offensive player. He looks small and slow. Let’s give him this week and next to see what happens. I have a feeling Shaq Leonard is smart enough to walk away with the help of his family, before someone in the organization makes the decision for him. It sucks to watch him at this point, knowing the All Pro player he was. 

 

[Defjamz26]

 

[John Hammonds]

On 10/1/2023 at 9:21 PM, 1959Colts said:

He just doesn't make any plays. When you do see Leonard he is never at the bottom of the pile, but rather, he comes jogging into the camera view, standing there after the whistle blows. I was watching him a few times and noticed how he can't shed a block to save his life. Yeah he picks up a few tackles every week, but never a big hit, or tackle for loss, etc.

It would be great if they would give Stuard a few reps. In the preseason he really impressed me. Quite a few times, I remember, he would come flying like a rocket in to make a nice solo open field tackle. No doubt in my mind GS would be an upgrade over Shaq at this point

I think we can't underestimate the effect the scheme change had on him, outside of his comeback from injury.  In the Tampa-2 Hybrid, he was the designated playmaker of the defense:  the weakside outside linebacker.  The scheme is set up for the 1-tech DT to make the blocks in front of him, allowing him the freedom to make all of the plays.  In the Cover-3, the middle linebacker is the primary playmaker, which is why Franklin is cranking out the tackle stats.  The OLB doesn't get the DT protection, meaning Leonard has to take on blocks and shed them.  And he's also got primary responsibility for the Flat, which was the CB's responsibility in the old defense.  It's now his.  Bottom line:  he's not free to roam, and he has to take on blocks.  Thus, his stats aren't going to be as good.

[RollerColt]

Leonard wasn't drafted for this type of defense. I absolutely love him, and everything he's done for the Colts. But unless things change, I think he might be gone next season to a team that fits his style better. 

[1959Colts]

2 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I think we can't underestimate the effect the scheme change had on him, outside of his comeback from injury.  In the Tampa-2 Hybrid, he was the designated playmaker of the defense:  the weakside outside linebacker.  The scheme is set up for the 1-tech DT to make the blocks in front of him, allowing him the freedom to make all of the plays.  In the Cover-3, the middle linebacker is the primary playmaker, which is why Franklin is cranking out the tackle stats.  The OLB doesn't get the DT protection, meaning Leonard has to take on blocks and shed them.  And he's also got primary responsibility for the Flat, which was the CB's responsibility in the old defense.  It's now his.  Bottom line:  he's not free to roam, and he has to take on blocks.  Thus, his stats aren't going to be as good.

Perhaps. That's why I why I would like to see Stuard get some reps, at the exact same position as Leonard. I believe strongly Stuard would instantly be an upgrade, not only in stats, but in overall production and playmaking.

[MikeCurtis]

I hate to give up on anyone, and am still patient, but he seems invisible in our 4 games.....  

 

His backup was in the mix when he got the chance

 

I wouldnt wait too much longer to make a change

 

Its very sad, how injuries can rob a promising career

[Patrick Miller]

Was Leonard benched in that second half in favor of Olubi?

 

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

I think Olubi is ahead of Stuard right now. He actually did well in limited snaps this sunday. 
 

It’ll be interesting to see if Leonard starts or is benched against the Titans. 

[Defjamz26]

34 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Was Leonard benched in that second half in favor of Olubi?

I believe so. When they asked Steichen about it, he kind of alluded to that.

[cjwhiskers]

I don't disagree with most of the posts here but I think we are being just a little too impatient. He needs and deserves at least half a season to see if he can regain some of the trust/speed/strength. Regardless of scheme. 

 

Let's give him more time and put some faith into the coaches to properly evaluate if he's improving or not. 

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

I think we can't underestimate the effect the scheme change had on him, outside of his comeback from injury.  In the Tampa-2 Hybrid, he was the designated playmaker of the defense:  the weakside outside linebacker.  The scheme is set up for the 1-tech DT to make the blocks in front of him, allowing him the freedom to make all of the plays.  In the Cover-3, the middle linebacker is the primary playmaker, which is why Franklin is cranking out the tackle stats.  The OLB doesn't get the DT protection, meaning Leonard has to take on blocks and shed them.  And he's also got primary responsibility for the Flat, which was the CB's responsibility in the old defense.  It's now his.  Bottom line:  he's not free to roam, and he has to take on blocks.  Thus, his stats aren't going to be as good.

I agree with you there. I’ve said for awhile that scheme is a big factor. Once Bradley came in, he stopped producing. This is also why I personally believe you shouldn’t draft LB’s in the first round and shouldn’t pay them unless they’re Wagner, Keuchly, etc… because it’s such a scheme specific position. An $18 million dollar WILL LB doesn’t have the same impact in a Gus Bradley defense.

[indyagent17]

It is sad it seem like when he changed his name, his play started falling off

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[1959Colts]

1 hour ago, Patrick Miller said:

Was Leonard benched in that second half in favor of Olubi?

 

 

No. Olubi went in for Franklin (after Zaire hurt his back) not Leonard.

I think Olubi only played a few snaps, then Franklin returned.

 

Sometime in the second half, the announcer did mention, that Leonard had left the game... I assumed Leonard got hurt? but at one point, during the final minutes, the camera showed Leonard standing on the sidelines, as if he was ready to return?

 

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

I think Olubi is ahead of Stuard right now. He actually did well in limited snaps this sunday. 
 

It’ll be interesting to see if Leonard starts or is benched against the Titans. 

The Colts depth chart lists:

Olubi as backup to Franklin at MLB and

Stuard backing up Leonard at WLB

[sb41champs]

On 10/1/2023 at 4:25 PM, Indyfan4life said:

Still. Coming. Back. From. Back. Surgery. 

The sad sad part of social media is that it is primarily used to bash or trash someone.

 

Aren't we glad that that isn't the norm in "real life"!!

 

Shaq will be baq - give him time.

[1959Colts]

10 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Yeah, as I expected, they will just keep dragging this out. Always some excuse for Leonard's drop-off.

Last year, Leonard did play some, and he looked exactly like he does now. Back then, Saturday got credit, for making a great coaching decision, when he told Leonard he needed to "shut it down". 

Then Leonard sits out the year, and has more surgery and rehab... Now here we are today, and nothing has changed with his performance. Seems like they are hoping, by giving him still even more time, he will magically return to the way he used to play several years ago. But I think, even come November... what they see, is what they will get.

[2006Coltsbestever]

22 minutes ago, sb41champs said:

The sad sad part of social media is that it is primarily used to bash or trash someone.

 

Aren't we glad that that isn't the norm in "real life"!!

 

Shaq will be baq - give him time.

Problem is most people don't have patience. I even thought that it would take Leonard 8 or 9 games before he started to become at least good again. I posted that back in August. In today's world, the younger generation want players to get cut or not be back the next year if they have 2 or 3 bad games. Never seen anything like it. 

 

It would have been so priceless had this forum been around when Peyton threw 28 INT's as a rookie and we went 3-13. Then 10 years later go back and look at the comments and see how many people say he was a bust, sucked, etc.. 

[hoosierhawk]

20 hours ago, 1959Colts said:

Time for them to give Grant Stuard a few of Leonard's snaps just to get a comparison

I believe it was Olubi that replaced him Sunday in the 2nd half.

Edit: Didn't replace him much as Olubi only got 7 snaps and some were for Franklin. Be did have the same # of tackles in 7 snaps as Shaq did in 37, Both had 3.

[Yoshinator]

At this point I would bench Leonard. He's not 100% at all, and he's almost useless on the field. If you think he'll get better, use him in a limited capacity each week to test him out, and if he's struggling, take him out quickly. He's doing nothing but hurting the team as of now and he's a liability both from a contractional standpoint and as a player on the field.