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Peytons legacy


jvan1973

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Alot of talk about Mr irsays list of top players all time.   I really don't have an issue with his list.   However there is a stat no one talks about.   An incredible start actually.    Peyton is the only Qb to go to 4 superbowls with 4 different head coaches.  

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6 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Alot of talk about Mr irsays list of top players all time.   I really don't have an issue with his list.   However there is a stat no one talks about.   An incredible start actually.    Peyton is the only Qb to go to 4 superbowls with 4 different head coaches.  

I have an issue with him having Elway over Peyton.  

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Peyton has more wins by any QB with a bottom 16 scoring defense than any other QB. He has 102 while Marino and Eli have 74. Brady has 20 something wins. This was through 2016. Elway has 36. 

Edited by Behle
Elway sorry
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the unfortunate truth is peyton will never get the full respect he deserves because of his playoff record .   that is how people judge QBs its not fair but that is what it is .    most people say peyton was the greatest regular season QB   but his lack of success in the postseason will haunt his legacy .   to the casual fan they just see peyton had pro bowl wrs and a pro bowl tight end  two hall of fame pass rushers and say he under achieved or choked in the playoffs .   

 

to the hard core colts fans who watched every game we saw a undersized soft cover 2 defense who got bullied in the playoffs .   as great as marvin and reggie were they struggled against tough physical defenses in press man .    there were playoff games where the colts offensive line got dominated non stop and reggie and marvin got beat up and struggled .    those early patriots playoff games were brutal to watch what those corners got away with .  

 

peyton will be looked at the same way aaron rogers is now a great mvp regular season QB who had so many one and dones in the playoffs .

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1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

the unfortunate truth is peyton will never get the full respect he deserves because of his playoff record .   that is how people judge QBs its not fair but that is what it is .    most people say peyton was the greatest regular season QB   but his lack of success in the postseason will haunt his legacy .   to the casual fan they just see peyton had pro bowl wrs and a pro bowl tight end  two hall of fame pass rushers and say he under achieved or choked in the playoffs .   

 

to the hard core colts fans who watched every game we saw a undersized soft cover 2 defense who got bullied in the playoffs .   as great as marvin and reggie were they struggled against tough physical defenses in press man .    there were playoff games where the colts offensive line got dominated non stop and reggie and marvin got beat up and struggled .    those early patriots playoff games were brutal to watch what those corners got away with .  

 

peyton will be looked at the same way aaron rogers is now a great mvp regular season QB who had so many one and dones in the playoffs .

I think many people over exaggerate Peyton's playoff failures. His loss to Pittsburgh in the 2005 Divisional Round and his INT at the end of SB 44 really stand out but other than that Peyton has been better than most think in the playoffs.

 

Peyton is 14-13 overall in the playoffs which has him tied for 3rd most playoff wins of any QB in NFL history (Bradshaw and Elway both have 14) only behind Brady and Montana. He is also 3-1 vs Tom Brady in AFC Title Games which gets overlooked by almost everyone that aren't Colts fans. He also got that all important 2nd SB win as a starter and retired on top. He has been to 4 SB's, Rodgers only 1. Peyton had more success in the playoffs than failures just based on what I posted. 

 

I can get super picky and say the same thing about LeBron James playoff failures that people do with Peyton but yet many think including the media that he is the GOAT. If LeBron is the GOAT then why isn't Peyton? LeBron is 4-6 in NBA Finals and just got swept by the Nuggets the West Finals. Jordan and Magic both had more playoff success than LeBron. Jordan won 6 Championships, Magic 5. Magic won 5 in just a 12 yr career, LeBron has played 20 years.

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18 hours ago, Behle said:

Peyton has more wins by any QB with a bottom 16 scoring defense than any other QB. He has 102 while Marino and Eli have 74. Brady has 20 something wins. This was through 2016. Elway has 36. 

 

You also left out field position disadvantages. Peyton and the Colts consistently had bad field positions due to their "special" teams in the playoffs, not to mention the regular season countless times. All the return TDs given up to so many teams over the years, plus sub-par punt coverage or schemes (remember Scifres game, with Sproles toying with us too), and a not so clutch Vanderjagt kicker in the playoffs. Things changed when AV came along, no doubt. Not to mention the Colts were the only team to give up an opening kickoff return TD and also have a failed onside kick recovery as well in a SB during Polian's tenure. We were bottom 5 consistently in so many categories across the Peyton era in special teams and it showed up against complete elite teams in the playoffs in close games. It was befitting that Peyton's last game as a Colt in a playoff loss to the Jets, we gave up a 53 yard kick return to Cromartie to help them finish with a game winning FG (not to mention a Caldwell timeout). There is only so much a D with few playmakers can do when an opponent is starting in your territory consistently or if your O is pinned back more often.

 

Russ Purnell, he was a case of "it is not what you do, it is who you know" that he stuck around on Dungy's staff much like Ron Meeks did. The D struggled against balanced offenses (Patriots, Chargers, Steelers) and did well against one dimensional offenses like the Jets, Ravens etc.

 

We could have definitely done better as a staff on the coaching front, IMO.

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1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Facts? Lol 

It's pretty documented that Jim wanted a new stadium.   Without more success the city wasn't going to build one.   While it's possible they may have found success without Peyton,  it's unlikely.   They call LOS "The house that Peyton built" for a reason

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33 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It's pretty documented that Jim wanted a new stadium.   Without more success the city wasn't going to build one.   While it's possible they may have found success without Peyton,  it's unlikely.   They call LOS "The house that Peyton built" for a reason

There may be a little truth about the success and Mannings contribution to LOS but not buying the assumptions and rumors that was stated. Irsay never threatened to leave. The media started that nonsense.  

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19 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There may be a little truth about the success and Mannings contribution to LOS but not buying the assumptions and rumors that was stated. Irsay never threatened to leave. The media started that nonsense.  

Bart Peterson and Fred Glass are on record saying they didn't think a deal would get done to keep the team in Indy.  Nobody knows more about the negotiations than those 2 and Jim Irsay

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On 5/25/2023 at 3:27 AM, Behle said:

Peyton has more wins by any QB with a bottom 16 scoring defense than any other QB. He has 102 while Marino and Eli have 74. Brady has 20 something wins. This was through 2016. Elway has 36. 


Question:   Those are fascinating stats that I’ve never seen before.    Where did you find that info?   Which website?   Can you point me in the right direction?   Thanks in advance….    :hat:

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1 hour ago, Behle said:

Nice to see a stat that shows what most Colts fans already know. Not sure how accurate this is, but seems to back up what I saw with my eyes for many years.

 

Peyton Manning did more with less than anyone else. 

 

No, I'm not talking about offensive weapons, talking about being on complete well rounded teams, where he didn't have to carry them. Offense can be the best in the league, but if your defense is in bottom half, you better have the ball last.

 

Not surprised to see Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw, Young and Brady at the bottom of this list, as it verifies more of what I have seen over the years.

 

Some of the biggest dynasties in history.

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16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

His loss to Pittsburgh in the 2005 Divisional Round

Thats a tough one to look back on.  We had the best team in the league with talent everywhere but it seems like everyone had an off day.  There were several weird story lines and questionable coaching decisions  leading up to it too

 

We even got some help from the refs and everyone still choked 

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17 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Bart Peterson and Fred Glass are on record saying they didn't think a deal would get done to keep the team in Indy.  Nobody knows more about the negotiations than those 2 and Jim Irsay

It was Indy who put the LOS project in play. Irsay never said build me a new stadium or I'm moving the team Report: Colts were "seriously contemplating" moving to Los ... https://www.stampedeblue.com/platform/amp/2016/1/31/10881232/report-colts-were-seriously-contemplating-moving-to-los-angeles-in-early-2000s

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5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

It was Indy who put the LOS project in play. Irsay never said build me a new stadium or I'm moving the team Report: Colts were "seriously contemplating" moving to Los ... https://www.stampedeblue.com/platform/amp/2016/1/31/10881232/report-colts-were-seriously-contemplating-moving-to-los-angeles-in-early-2000s

I didn't say he said that.   However,  the lease was coming due.  Without a new stadium he would have moved.   The Dome was out dated and they needed a new venue.  

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17 hours ago, ShuteAt168 said:

For years, I woke up every Sunday during NFL season knowing that the Colts would probably win and be exciting to watch. Add in the Super Bowl win and that’s enough legacy for me. 

Been such a long time since those days. I think I took those days for granted. It's like we had a cheat code, and we indeed bad a cheat code; it was Manning. Never felt like that with any other player. 

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18 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:


Jim Irsay stood up in an owners meeting and asked what it would take for him to move the Colts to LA. He was ready to move the team. Indianapolis surprised him by actually funding Luke. All of this is as factual as the sky is blue. 
 

Anyone can choose to ignore it and act as though these things never happened. The fact is that Colts fans lived in fear for around a decade the Colts would move to another city. It was even possible the Colts could have moved to Cleveland at one point. 
 

Were you not paying attention to any of this? Every Indianapolis Colts fan lived the horror of it. It was in our face all the time. 
 

Wake up, man!

I agree with everything you just said. Jim knew/knows that LA was/is a much larger market which would have also attracted top Free Agents = easier to build a team. Had we drafted Leaf, we would have been LA bound a few years later. Peyton's play alone made us relevant and contenders every year. LA also just lost the Rams a few years prior so they wanted another team. 

 

I remember my father telling me all the time that we were LA bound if we didn't start winning, that was in the late 90's.

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20 hours ago, Behle said:

That is a phenomenal stat. I am pretty sure Peyton could have won 4 or 5 SB's with better defenses. The 2 that he did win, was in 2006 with Indy and 2015 in MileHigh, both had great defenses. We just stepped up in 2006 and 2015 Denver's D is arguably a top 10 Defense of all-time.

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3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree with everything you just said. Jim knew/knows that LA was/is a much larger market which would have also attracted top Free Agents = easier to build a team. Had we drafted Leaf, we would have been LA bound a few years later. Peyton's play alone made us relevant and contenders every year. LA also just lost the Rams a few years prior so they wanted another team. 

 

I remember my father telling me all the time that we were LA bound if we didn't start winning, that was in the late 90's.

100 percent.  Honestly if I was not a Colts fan I wouldn't have blamed him.   But since I was I was on pins and needles until that agreement was reached.    Peyton and company saved us from the team moving.   That is pretty universally accepted fact amongst those in the know

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On 5/24/2023 at 9:43 PM, jvan1973 said:

Alot of talk about Mr irsays list of top players all time.   I really don't have an issue with his list.   However there is a stat no one talks about.   An incredible start actually.    Peyton is the only Qb to go to 4 superbowls with 4 different head coaches.  

 

On 5/25/2023 at 6:27 AM, Behle said:

Peyton has more wins by any QB with a bottom 16 scoring defense than any other QB. He has 102 while Marino and Eli have 74. Brady has 20 something wins. This was through 2016. Elway has 36. 

 

I hate that it took a weird tweet from Irsay for us to get to this point, but this is yet another brick in the foundation for why one day we will all recognize that Peyton Manning is the greatest to ever play the position of Quarterback in NFL history. 

 

Not the best athlete to ever play QB, not the smartest person to ever play QB, not the most successful as far as team accomplishments to ever play QB, not even the luck of being halfway handsome... and YET... what Peyton Manning willed into existence here in Indy is nothing short of miraculous.  We used to sing "Lord help our Colts" along with the radio, and by golly he did.  He helped us by giving us Peyton freakin Manning.  Despite the ownership, despite the coaching, despite the surrounding cast, and despite everything else that made Indy an underdog compared to all the other bigger markets... Peyton literally willed into existence the dream of every Colts fan in 2006.

 

And Manning put it ALL on his shoulders from day 1.  This was expected of him.  Not only did he not disappoint, but he exceeded expectations, and did it in a way that would make all our moms proud.  No other QB in NFL history could have, much less would have done what Peyton did for the Indianapolis Colts.  Ask Elway.  He opted for the "better situation".  Peyton didn't just create a "better situation" here in Indy, he created an ideal situation for the community to support.  How many other NFL QBs, much less people on this earth, have both a statue and a children's hospital named after them in the same city?!?

 

He was the perfect role model and humble superstar that somehow adopted us as his home.  He was like a dream of a football-version of a Larry Bird/Reggie Miller hybrid that was going to actually take us to the promised land... and he DID IT!!  Peyton is GOAT.  I personally cannot be convinced otherwise.  :hat:

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23 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

 

On 5/27/2023 at 10:21 PM, crazycolt1 said:

 


NOTE:   Long post ahead…

 

 

 As someone who lived in Los Angeles for over 60 years, I thought I’d share a different perspective.  
 

While it looks like Irsay may have been privately telling the local Indy politicians that he’d move the team to LA if he didn’t get what he wanted I don’t think it was ever going to happen.   
 

Remember,  the City and County of Los Angeles allowed both the Rams and the Raiders to leave Southern California.  Because both teams wanted millions of tax dollars for stadium improvements and facility improvements.   And Los Angeles said no to both.   The Rams first moved to Orange County and eventually to St. Louis.   The Raiders moved back to Oakland where they originally came from. 
 

Decades later, the Rams moved back but got no local money.   They’ve built a spectacular stadium with the money from their owner, Stan Kronke, one of the richest owners in the NFL and other private investors plus the NFL who added billions to build the new facility for the NFL Network.   All private money.   No tax dollars. 
 

Both of you need to understand that the NFL owners used the threat of moving a franchise to Los Angeles for roughly 25 years as leverage for them to get upgrades in their cities.   It worked beautifully.  
 

But if Los Angeles allowed the Rams and Raiders to leave the city, it certainly wasn’t going to entice the Indianapolis Colts — even with Peyton Manning — to bring them to LA.   Politically speaking,  citizens supporting billionaire sports owners is a political loser in Southern California.  
 

In short, Irsay was bluffing, as many other teams did back in the day.   It was the threat that the owners wanted.   And, it worked to perfection.   Several other franchises used LA as a threat.   But it was never going to happen. 

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I have been on this forum for almost 20 years now. And I have always referred to Peyton as the greatest quarterback of all time, which he definitely is and there are plenty of numbers and stats that back that up. Thank you Peyton for the most enjoyable and entertaining era of Colt football of my life time. And here's to Anthony Richardson to adding to it! Go Colts!

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9 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

I have been on this forum for almost 20 years now. And I have always referred to Peyton as the greatest quarterback of all time, which he definitely is and there are plenty of numbers and stats that back that up. Thank you Peyton for the most enjoyable and entertaining era of Colt football of my life time. And here's to Anthony Richardson to adding to it! Go Colts!

Yep it is all subjective, like any list. The names I always hear that are even mentioned in the GOAT category regarding QB's are Brady, Montana, Peyton, and Unitas - pick your poison basically. There are a few that throw Elway in there. I will say this, Patrick Mahomes is on his way to dominating this league if he keeps doing what he is doing.

 

1 QB I always liked was Steve Young simply because he was incredibly accurate from the pocket but also could run really well. He was a great dual QB for playing in the late 80's/90's.

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Peyton is the best QB ever IMO. I don't care what anyone says about Brady, nothing will change my mind.

 

It still hurts that he didn't play his whole career with the Colts, and I especially hate how associated he is with the Broncos now. With the amount of times you see him involved with the Broncos you'd think he played his entire career in Denver.

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9 minutes ago, pkbrux said:

Peyton is the best QB ever IMO. I don't care what anyone says about Brady, nothing will change my mind.

 

It still hurts that he didn't play his whole career with the Colts, and I especially hate how associated he is with the Broncos now. With the amount of times you see him involved with the Broncos you'd think he played his entire career in Denver.

He lives in Colorado is why. He loves it there.

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10 hours ago, DattMavis said:

Peyton is the “Best” QB to ever play. 
I feel forced to say Brady is the “Greatest,” but greatness doesn’t equal ability. Peyton was better than Brady, but just didn’t seem to close it out when it mattered most.

 

50 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

I have been on this forum for almost 20 years now. And I have always referred to Peyton as the greatest quarterback of all time, which he definitely is and there are plenty of numbers and stats that back that up. Thank you Peyton for the most enjoyable and entertaining era of Colt football of my life time. And here's to Anthony Richardson to adding to it! Go Colts!


I agree.  Peyton is the greatest qb of all time in my eyes.  
 

my main argument is that teams win championships not players.  
 

pm is the only player to win 5 mvps.  That is not a team driven award.  
 

Brady is great too.   
 

 

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4 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

 


I agree.  Peyton is the greatest qb of all time in my eyes.  
 

my main argument is that teams win championships not players.  
 

pm is the only player to win 5 mvps.  That is not a team driven award.  
 

Brady is great too.   
 

 

That is where Peyton has a strong argument to being the GOAT. Those 5 MVP's, nobody will ever beat that record, not even Mahomes IMO.

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7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is where Peyton has a strong argument to being the GOAT. Those 5 MVP's, nobody will ever beat that record, not even Mahomes IMO.

If anyone will, it would be Mahomes.

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10 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

He better do so before his HC retires.

I don't think Andy Reid is retiring anytime soon. All that media talk at the end of last year was nonsense. Reid essentially said so when repeatably being asked about it.

 

It's kinda like Popovich, he isn't going anywhere for few years now that Wemby is coming to town.

 

Reid will stick around for a little while. It's hard to walk away from Mahomes.

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22 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 


 

@NewColtsFan Of course teams used LA to bluff other cities. With the Colts, it’s not that simple. Jim Irsay was not convinced the Indianapolis market could support an NFL team.  The Colts had a hard time selling out the (small) RCA Dome for over a decade, and even early into the Peyton years. Remember this was once a basketball state. I was literally the only Colts fan in my high school, and my high school is in the state of Indiana. Northern Indiana were mostly Bears fans and southern Indiana was a mixture of Bears and Dolphins fans. Bob Griese is from Evansville and the void of not having a pro football team in Indiana led to these facts. 
 

Peyton Manning changed all of that. 
 

@crazycolt1 You might not ever see the truth about this. It’s bizarre that any Colts fan could live through what happened and not know any of this. Are you not from Indiana? That’s the only way you not knowing what happened would make any sense to me. Even then, these boards have been around since the Jim Harbaugh days. We lived this horror and you’re acting like it never happened. This was discussed more than games were Monday Morning Quarterbacked. I’m not sure how a long-time Colts fan could miss any of this. Something about you is not adding up. 

 

Once again, I can't disagree with any of this. This state was all about basketball in the 80's and 90's. IU with Bobby Knight was bigger than any pro team we had here during the 80's, then in the 90's it was MILLER TIME. Peyton turned this into a football state during the mid 2000's. 2006 clinched it. 

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