Bill Polian on Red Flags on Draft Prospects [Merge]

[Playoffs2013]

Bill Polian is stingy about red flags on ESPN, on the sportscenter special

[chad72]

I know the Polian era is over. For a franchise that is rebuilding, it is important to trust your future in the best possible young men you can find in the draft.

Bill Polian was asked on ESPN about Mike Adams, who tested positive for marijuana at the combine, and is sliding down. He said "if the allegations are true, some teams would either totally take him off the board or state that if he is there in later rounds, I am willing to offset the risk based on how far he has slid and take the chance later". But when asked again if it was too harsh to totally take him off the board, Polian said "no, absolutely no."

If I am a GM and I look at the possibility of talent like Janoris Jenkins, Coby Fleener or Kevin Zeitler available to me at No.34, for a rebuilding franchise, I might stay away from Janoris Jenkins on second thought.

Your thoughts on what Polian said???

[vinatierifan4]

who is he talking about. jenkins?

[21isSuperman]

Say what you want about Polian, but the man knew how to scout/draft.

[Gavin]

he makes a good point at the same time Mike Adams was high AT the combine and I understand the worries on Jenkins although his bust for smokin weed is actualy up for debate as far as him being accused of it at Northern Alabama at least in the eyes of his former defensive coordinator their so let the debate go on I guess

[Smonroe]

I agree with Polian, it's a huge risk with these guys. I'm a Buckeye and I was never crazy about Adams, he's been in trouble before with weed at OSU. Plus, he had to be incredibly stupid to get high before the combine knowing that it stays in your system for a long time.

I'm not saying he or Jenkins won't be good players. There are some player (and I'm not defending or arguing for it) like Ricky Williams who are good guys, and good teammates.

But if they're going to be suspended, they're not really helping the team.

[ColtJ82]

who is he talking about. jenkins?

"But why male models?" LOL. He said Mike Adams in the first sentence.

[vinatierifan4]

"But why male models?" LOL. He said Mike Adams in the first sentence.

i completely missed that part

[Nobody]

Say what you want about Polian, but the man knew how to scout/draft.

In the late rounds maybe.

[The Peytonator]

Alshon Jeffery raises a pretty big red flag in my book. Not too high on fat, slow WRs, and the drafting of them with the 34th overall pick.

[Gavin]

Going to have to take a red flag player sometimes to be good

[21isSuperman]

In the late rounds maybe.

Peyton Manning, Wayne, Edge, Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders were all solid early round picks. Gonzo had potential but was injury prone (can't blame Polian for injuries). Addai was a good pick, too. Pollak was always forced to play out of position but continually improved his play year after year. Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden were both good players too; Marlin was injury prone and Kelvin was just overpaid, but both were solid corners

[open window]

I was listening to Polian talking about Kalil, he said he would trade down if he were in the Vikes shoes. He doesn't think Kalil is strong enough to be like a Jon Ogden type LT. Off topic but i found it interesting.

[John Dee]

I know the Polian era is over. For a franchise that is rebuilding, it is important to trust your future in the best possible young men you can find in the draft.

Bill Polian was asked on ESPN about Mike Adams, who tested positive for marijuana at the combine, and is sliding down. He said "if the allegations are true, some teams would either totally take him off the board or state that if he is there in later rounds, I am willing to offset the risk based on how far he has slid and take the chance later". But when asked again if it was too harsh to totally take him off the board, Polian said "no, absolutely no."

If I am a GM and I look at the possibility of talent like Janoris Jenkins, Coby Fleener or Kevin Zeitler available to me at No.34, for a rebuilding franchise, I might stay away from Janoris Jenkins on second thought.

Your thoughts on what Polian said???

Stay Clean the first couple of drafts... or vanilla...

Just get starters in the fold.

[subvet]

Even with his issues, I think Janoris Jenkins is worth the risk. He looks like a real game breaker if he can keep his ego inside his helmet.

[spoonfish]

Stay Clean the first couple of drafts... or vanilla...

Just get starters in the fold.

Depends on the situation, but agree in theory. I'd like to win games, but would like to do it without having a team of thugs. After the Pacer-Piston brawl, the Pacers seemed to really value higher character guys in the draft and free agency. They've really turned their image around and they are winning too.

[Gavin]

Polian does make sense but also if we go searching for guys that come in squeaky clean then were not gonna have a great draft. also if we draft all clean guys in early rounds would miss out on some talent and likely have to settle for project players in other words players that are likely gone in a few years (released), now one could say the same could be said for players that come in the league with issues and in some cases you would be right but thats more rare then for some project player who more often then not travels the league as depth players long story short talent trumps off field issues (not saying it always should, but some guys to get their act together when they come into the league)

[Gavin]

Seems to be an usually larger number of people on this time of night, since I been on it seems not many have been on this time of night, until tonight anyway

[ColtsUrUs]

Peyton Manning, Wayne, Edge, Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders were all solid early round picks. Gonzo had potential but was injury prone (can't blame Polian for injuries). Addai was a good pick, too. Pollak was always forced to play out of position but continually improved his play year after year. Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden were both good players too; Marlin was injury prone and Kelvin was just overpaid, but both were solid corners

Guess he's meaning in recent drafts. Well the past 4 years.:hmm:

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Say what you want about Polian, but the man knew how to scout/draft.

Not for about the last half-dozen years he hasn't.

[spoonfish]

Not for about the last half-dozen years he hasn't.

Yeah I have to admit I was surprised when I looked back at the recent drafts. This site did a pretty good job grading our drafts (2008-2010). But Polian's draft reputation remains high. Colts did a really nice job finding undrafted guys.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/04/03/draft-grader-indianapolis-colts/

[lollygagger8]

I think Polian did find some late round gems and did a great job in Buffalo and Carolina, but the last 5 or so years he completely lost his touch. Besides his penchant for paying these massive contracts (Freeney, Clark, we could go on and on) him wanting to turn the reigns over to Chrissy was his final mistake. I'm just glad Irsay was smart enough to not let it happen!

[MIColtsFan]

I have always respected that the Colts have fielded a team of higher caliber morals and class than most. I would hate to see them begin to take those with less than respectable character. Plenty of options with both talent and good character, no need to go there.

[Quantum88]

Several comments:

1. Taking players who have behavioral red flags (drugs, legal problems, abuse, etc.) places your team at significant additional risk of losing their services for extended periods of time through suspensions that can disrupt the function of the team during the season. I don't believe their potential is worth the risk. See impact of Pacman Jones for example.

2. Bill Polian did not lose his ability to identify talent - he turned the job over to his son Chris who never had the ability to begin with. Chris was responsibile for the Ugoh trade as one of his first significant actions.

[FightLikeSin]

Alshon Jeffery raises a pretty big red flag in my book. Not too high on fat, slow WRs, and the drafting of them with the 34th overall pick.

I dunno about that. He's pretty good. Playing overweight one year and still putting up good numbers is less risk to me. He weighed in at 216lbs at his pro day and ran a 4.49.

[Coltman51]

Even with his issues, I think Janoris Jenkins is worth the risk. He looks like a real game breaker if he can keep his ego inside his helmet.

Yeah , keep ego in his helmut and get helmut out of his ******. just being sarcastic, but don't think at this stage I would want to gamble on him

[dgambill]

Several comments:

1. Taking players who have behavioral red flags (drugs, legal problems, abuse, etc.) places your team at significant additional risk of losing their services for extended periods of time through suspensions that can disrupt the function of the team during the season. I don't believe their potential is worth the risk. See impact of Pacman Jones for example.

2. Bill Polian did not lose his ability to identify talent - he turned the job over to his son Chris who never had the ability to begin with. Chris was responsibile for the Ugoh trade as one of his first significant actions.

I agree with both parts of your post. I am sure he helped Chris a lot in grading players. I think he had a couple below avg drafts...especially 2008/2009 but if you look at last years I think we rebounded with a decent draft. We just didn't have time for them to grow. Overall he was a great evaluator of talent I think. Just look what he did in Buffalo and Carolina before he did it here. He has probably one of the longest, most productive amount of drafts of anyone. I will say on the side of signing and trades I was never very happy with those. He did over value over pay our players because they fit the system and it kept Peyton happy. We also traded for a couple players like Corey Simon and Mcfarland that didn't really help us a whole lot. Overall he was good but it was time for a change and I was ok with that.

As for red flags. Like he said you can still take chances later in the draft but for a team that is trying to rebuild or on the cusp of a championship it doesn't make sense to do it. If your stuck in the middle and need to take that next step I can see it. You miss and you take a step back and reload drafting early or you hit and it puts you into the playoffs kinda thing. Probably why you see so many teams languish in mediocrity because they get maybe one to pan out but never hit enough to pay off.

[JoKeR]

Polian does make sense but also if we go searching for guys that come in squeaky clean then were not gonna have a great draft. also if we draft all clean guys in early rounds would miss out on some talent and likely have to settle for project players in other words players that are likely gone in a few years (released), now one could say the same could be said for players that come in the league with issues and in some cases you would be right but thats more rare then for some project player who more often then not travels the league as depth players long story short talent trumps off field issues (not saying it always should, but some guys to get their act together when they come into the league)

You say this like its an absolute. This draft class is supposed to be loaded at CB. I don't have a problem with pot but I don't want someone who could get suspended for it. Getting squeaky clean players was not or ever will be a problem. Like that's the one trait Polian sought. Most players are high character but what your really complaining about is the bargain basement players Polian used because of cap restrictions, that he created.

[21isSuperman]

Guess he's meaning in recent drafts. Well the past 4 years. :hmm:

Not for about the last half-dozen years he hasn't.

I don't know how accurate this is, but I read that Chris Polian had taken over the draft a few years ago, but this past season, Bill took over again because Chris' picks weren't too great. Again, don't know how accurate that is, but it would make sense to me

[Gavin]

Very simple alot of us are saying best player available, if Jenkins is their get him he is the best Corner by far that will be available in this draft and I will continue to say every Corner after that your looking at a project Corner

[ColtsPRIDE11]

Everyone is entitled to do whatever in their recreational time I guess, but I personally would rather we stay away from drafting guys that have a habit of doing these things for a couple of reasons: I like a classy, top notch team (on and off the field), and these recreational activities could (and mostly likely would) cause that player playing time = hurting us.

Plenty of good fish in the sea, let's go after someone else.

[21isSuperman]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8287648d/article/mike-mayock-pot-use-by-draft-prospects-not-as-bad-as-violence?module=HP11_headline_stack

In the wake of news that Ohio State offensive tackle Mike Adams tested positive for marijuana at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock said Thursday that occasional marijuana use by draft prospects is not "as big a deal as it was 10 years ago."

In a conference call with reporters, Mayock added that habitual use of any drug remains a worry among teams executives.

"If it was a one-time thing and not that big a deal, then it’s not like you’re beating women or you’re a convicted felon or murdering people," Mayock said, according to the Detroit Free Press. "There’s hot-button issues now, but I don’t think one time with pot is a hot-button issue

--

There's Mayock's take on the issue

[Quantum88]

http://www.nfl.com/d..._headline_stack

In the wake of news that Ohio State offensive tackle Mike Adams tested positive for marijuana at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock said Thursday that occasional marijuana use by draft prospects is not "as big a deal as it was 10 years ago."

In a conference call with reporters, Mayock added that habitual use of any drug remains a worry among teams executives.

"If it was a one-time thing and not that big a deal, then it’s not like you’re beating women or you’re a convicted felon or murdering people," Mayock said, according to the Detroit Free Press. "There’s hot-button issues now, but I don’t think one time with pot is a hot-button issue

--

There's Mayock's take on the issue

There is a problem with how this gets interpreted. To me, if a guy shows up at the biggest event leading up to his being drafted, knowing he will be drug tested and is still using, the guy is an habitual user and off of my board until the 5th or 6th round.

[Gavin]

I have to admit showing up to one of the biggest events in your life high as a kite is absolutely dumb and actually the most irresponsible move I have hard so far

[21isSuperman]

There is a problem with how this gets interpreted. To me, if a guy shows up at the biggest event leading up to his being drafted, knowing he will be drug tested and is still using, the guy is an habitual user and off of my board until the 5th or 6th round.

Yeah, that's the thing. Even if it's a "one time thing" as Mayock puts it, who in their right mind would say "I have one shot at this and it's the biggest interview of my life, but I'm going to get high"? It might be a one time thing, but they did the one time right before the Combine. Clearly, they aren't thinking right

[Creekside]

Several comments:

1. Taking players who have behavioral red flags (drugs, legal problems, abuse, etc.) places your team at significant additional risk of losing their services for extended periods of time through suspensions that can disrupt the function of the team during the season. I don't believe their potential is worth the risk. See impact of Pacman Jones for example.

2. Bill Polian did not lose his ability to identify talent - he turned the job over to his son Chris who never had the ability to begin with. Chris was responsibile for the Ugoh trade as one of his first significant actions.

.....thanks for saying it for me.........and not everyone smokes pot, or whatever....those who do illegal things while pursuing a promising NFL career lack self discipline.......and yes, Bill Polian (unfortunately) grew old....

[FireJimCaldwell]

If it came out that Luck or RGIII tested positive for marijuana, I'm not sure it would prevent them from going # 1 & 2. If say QB 5 & 6 on the list tested positive for it, then I think it would drop their draft status some.

A lot of it depends on the players ability and the teams interested in them. Warren Sapp and Randy Moss took pretty good falls on draft day and both had the talent to be drafted much higher than they were. Neither were up for the #1 pick overall, and neither played QB, so it is hard to compare.

[subvet]

Seems to be an usually larger number of people on this time of night, since I been on it seems not many have been on this time of night, until tonight anyway

I get off work at 11 CST and usually spend an hour or three online unwinding so I can sleep so you'll always see me here late.

[KarlKuffs]

I cared about Bill Polian's thoughts on player evaluation back in 2005.

I don't care about Bill Polian's thoughts on player evaluation in 2012.

[Gavin]

Im really hoping for this draft

1.Luck

2.Janoris Jenkins

3.Sanu, AJ Jenkins, Criner one of those-Wide Receiver

4.Ladarius Green-Tight End

5.Hicks-Defensive End/Defensive Tackle

5.Streeter-Wide Receiver

6.Ryan Miller-Guard-can add competition

7-Whalen

7-Blatnick-can split time with Conner or make Dwight Freeny expendable

7-Tight End