Ballard made a blunder

[coming on strong]

Without autry setting the edge teams are rolling out their QBs and gashing the colts 

[DeepseaColt]

I think it's been proven countless times that it's better to let a guy go a year early than to overpay him. 

[coming on strong]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Vrabel?    We didn’t like?    Did we even interview him?    
 

I think Ballard wanted an offensive minded head coach.   He already had Eberflus in mind.  

I remember seeing a article where the colts interviewed him could be wrong though . That  was in 2018 Ballard chose McDaniels .

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

Im still mad we didn't keep Jerry Hughes! 

 

He would have still flat out busted here. For whatever reason he had some serious beef with us an organisation and that doesn't normally result in people performing at their best. The fresh start seemed to be what he needed to kick start his career. He also didn't really seem to fit a 3-4 so made sense to go to a 4-3 team.

 

Always came across as have a big chip on his shoulder of being a 1st rounder and being behind Freeney/Mathis in the depth chart. 

 

 

[coming on strong]

3 minutes ago, DeepseaColt said:

I think it's been proven countless times that it's better to let a guy go a year early than to overpay him. 

7 million a year is hardly over paying though . That is what Hines makes 

[coming on strong]

10 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Did you see the complains last year of Autry and Houston not being a factor and Buckner needing help?

I agree with your point but people wanted a big name guy to replace autry if he was leaving not starting Lewis and a rookie . Lewis had one year healthy at that point and that was as a backup to Buckner mostly . 

[TimetobringDfence!]

2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

He would have still flat out busted here. For whatever reason he had some serious beef with us an organisation and that doesn't normally result in people performing at their best. The fresh start seemed to be what he needed to kick start his career. He also didn't really seem to fit a 3-4 so made sense to go to a 4-3 team.

 

Always came across as have a big chip on his shoulder of being a 1st rounder and being behind Freeney/Mathis in the depth chart. 

 

 

I think he felt slightly threatened by two young DEs being drafted and wanted to strike a long term deal with Indy to ease his mind.  When we said no to a long term offer he said adios...

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

7 million a year is hardly over paying though . That is what Hines makes 

Hines is much younger with with definitely more upside.

[NannyMcafee]

20 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

He would have still flat out busted here. For whatever reason he had some serious beef with us an organisation and that doesn't normally result in people performing at their best. The fresh start seemed to be what he needed to kick start his career. He also didn't really seem to fit a 3-4 so made sense to go to a 4-3 team.

 

Always came across as have a big chip on his shoulder of being a 1st rounder and being behind Freeney/Mathis in the depth chart. 

 

 

 

I blame Ballard. 

[coming on strong]

14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Hines is much younger with with definitely more upside.

Not saying Hines is bad I’m saying 7 million is not bad for a good starting defensive end . Might be a couple years before paye and dayo are ten sack a year guys . We were 11 and 5 last year why rebuild a key spot so quick when paye could of been a back up and rotated in until he beats out autry . The defense is the same from last year except at edge and walker and it’s not working out . When your suppose to be a playoff team it’s not a great time to play unproven guys at premium positions until they are ready . 

[CR91]

22 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

I agree with your point but people wanted a big name guy to replace autry if he was leaving not starting Lewis and a rookie . Lewis had one year healthy at that point and that was as a backup to Buckner mostly . 

 

You can't expect two rookies to be productive right away. We need to see how well their playing by the end of the year.

[coming on strong]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

You can't expect two rookies to be productive right away. We need to see how well their playing by the end of the year.

That is my point when the team has playoff hopes play the veterans and rotate in the rookies until they are ready . Look at Pierre garçon colts drafted him and let him play as a back up for a year before letting him start .  Now I get you can’t do that at every position but doing it at premium spots is worth it . 

[TimetobringDfence!]

9 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

That is my point when the team has playoff hopes play the veterans and rotate in the rookies until they are ready . Look at Pierre garçon colts drafted him and let him play as a back up for a year before letting him start .  Now I get you can’t do that at every position but doing it at premium spots is worth it . 

We could have used Autry more than TY but I say Ballard tried to land Autry first but no agreement could be reached.. he didn't want a one year deal with two 1st round talents nipping at his heels...he felt slighted...

[coming on strong]

4 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

We could have used Autry more than TY but I say Ballard tried to land Autry first but no agreement could be reached.. he didn't want a one year deal with two 1st round talents nipping at his heels...he felt slighted...

Ballard offered him the same deal just less guaranteed. When you have a guy produce and work hard for three years guaranteeing is not a massive risk . I don’t think autry even knew we were gonna draft 2 high round edge rushers since free Agency is before the draft .

[CR91]

26 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

That is my point when the team has playoff hopes play the veterans and rotate in the rookies until they are ready . Look at Pierre garçon colts drafted him and let him play as a back up for a year before letting him start .  Now I get you can’t do that at every position but doing it at premium spots is worth it . 

 

But if the vets we had were getting older and not as productive, then why hold back the rookies? Honestly, I think the biggest problem was not spending money on getting one of the pass rushers, but let's just see how Paye and Dayo develop.

[coming on strong]

10 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

But if the vets we had were getting older and not as productive, then why hold back the rookies? Honestly, I think the biggest problem was not spending money on getting one of the pass rushers, but let's just see how Paye and Dayo develop.

It seems like pass rushers usually take time except once in a generation guys . With the way flus rotates guys paye could of still got tons of snaps just put in autry on big moments .   I have no doubt both dayo and paye will be good but not this year probably next year . Autry could of been great depth piece even if beaten out by paye next year . 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If what a lot of people are saying that this was a evaluation year for the young pass rushers and for this team as a whole will Ballard go fix it. That is the big question.

[DeepseaColt]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

Not saying Hines is bad I’m saying 7 million is not bad for a good starting defensive end . Might be a couple years before paye and dayo are ten sack a year guys . We were 11 and 5 last year why rebuild a key spot so quick when paye could of been a back up and rotated in until he beats out autry . The defense is the same from last year except at edge and walker and it’s not working out . When your suppose to be a playoff team it’s not a great time to play unproven guys at premium positions until they are ready . 

I would say this was likely due to number crunching. We have a lot of people to pay and it really just doesn't make sense to tie ourselves down to an aging player whose production won't match the contract. When it comes down to Autry's recent success, I think that's more scheme related than anything. TN is more aggressive and they actually cover the middle of the field to give their pass rushers an opportunity to get home. This team has a lot of holes but this exact same team with an upgrade at defensive coordinator would likely have us at the top of the AFC. 

[NewColtsFan]

13 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

They could of gave him more guarantees that second year and been able to get out that third year. Ballard made a mistake over peanuts.

Yes, we could’ve matched.   We chose not to.
 

And the second part of my post sailed right over your head.
 

You’re judging a 3-year deal after a half season of year one.    You quickly jump to conclusions.   You’re not alone.   Plenty of other posters do this too.   But it’s rarely helpful or right. 

[Zoltan]

Some of y'all talk about Autry like he is Myles Garrett. If we had Autry he would probably be a rotational piece who ends with 7 sacks and ya'll would be complaining that he is getting overpaid/taking snaps away from our young players.

Let's not forget he is playing third fiddle to Simmons and Landry

[throwing BBZ]

14 hours ago, bleed blue 4 life said:

Letting Autry go was a huge mistake. smh

 

 Not at all. We had plenty of tape on what we would get from him in EBS D.
 It is nice seeing him all Amped up in THEIR D.
 Our young guys needed his playing time in this LEARNING season, so he was really of little use to us. A Caveman could figure it out!

[throwing BBZ]

23 minutes ago, DeepseaColt said:

I would say this was likely due to number crunching. We have a lot of people to pay and it really just doesn't make sense to tie ourselves down to an aging player whose production won't match the contract. When it comes down to Autry's recent success, I think that's more scheme related than anything. TN is more aggressive and they actually cover the middle of the field to give their pass rushers an opportunity to get home. This team has a lot of holes but this exact same team with an upgrade at defensive coordinator would likely have us at the top of the AFC. 

 

 On point there Deep!
 And that Byard guy playing safety for THEM would sure help our D.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

2 hours ago, DeepseaColt said:

I think it's been proven countless times that it's better to let a guy go a year early than to overpay him. 

yes like we did peyton

[coming on strong]

42 minutes ago, DeepseaColt said:

I would say this was likely due to number crunching. We have a lot of people to pay and it really just doesn't make sense to tie ourselves down to an aging player whose production won't match the contract. When it comes down to Autry's recent success, I think that's more scheme related than anything. TN is more aggressive and they actually cover the middle of the field to give their pass rushers an opportunity to get home. This team has a lot of holes but this exact same team with an upgrade at defensive coordinator would likely have us at the top of the AFC. 

We have close to 70 million next year though most of our good players are already signed . Except Nelson but his 5 th year option is counted . We have the money to afford a 7 million a year guy .

[John Hammonds]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You know we made an offer to keep him, right?   We matched his first year money, But fell a little short in the 2nd year. 

 

You know Tennessee gave him a 3-year deal, right?

 

We are 1/2 year into a 3-year deal and you’re already judging it.    Is it a mistake if Autry’s 2nd and 3rd year aren’t as good?    
 

You see my point?   It’s way, WAY too early to judge a multi-year deal…..    

That's a very good point.

We did believ that Autry would produce the first year of the contract, at age 31, but that he would probably drop off later, and were willing to pay him less as the contract goes on.  Tennessee offered him a 3-year deal, which we would not.

Also, we have to see this decision in context.  We needed to leave room in the salary cap to [a] pay extensions to our good players from the 2018 draft (Nelson, Leonard, Smith), [b] leave space for the potential to pay extensions to people from the 2019 draft (Turay, Lewis, Campbell), and [c] build the new contract for Wentz.

When you look his contract in that context, paying a 33 year old DE in the waning year of his career, at what we believed would be minimal effectiveness, would not work.

Instead, we drafted 2 new DE's in 2021, banked on Turay and Lewis to continue to grow in the meantime, and by the end of the three years, would have come out ahead.

Yes, you can make an argument that, in the short term, this was a blunder.  Because Autry is being productive, and the young DE's that we are relying on, not so much.

But at the end of the 3 years?  It may have wound up being the better decision.

(We hope.)

[CR91]

2 hours ago, coming on strong said:

It seems like pass rushers usually take time except once in a generation guys . With the way flus rotates guys paye could of still got tons of snaps just put in autry on big moments .   I have no doubt both dayo and paye will be good but not this year probably next year . Autry could of been great depth piece even if beaten out by paye next year . 

 

Paye is getting to the QB. I said in another thread he should have had two sacks, the QB got rid of it when he was going down.

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

We could have used Autry more than TY but I say Ballard tried to land Autry first but no agreement could be reached.. he didn't want a one year deal with two 1st round talents nipping at his heels...he felt slighted...

Autry signed with the Titans before the draft

[Myles]

I'll admit that I was bummed to see Autry leave.   

 

Perhaps that his health concerns worried Ballard too much.  In his 7 seasons he has only played 16 games twice.   

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

We have close to 70 million next year though most of our good players are already signed . Except Nelson but his 5 th year option is counted . We have the money to afford a 7 million a year guy .

I believe your salary cap number is high. 
 

Over The Cap has the Colts at $57.4 next year.     Spotrac has the Colts at 56.6. 
 

We’re roughly sitting around 8th most in available money for right now.  

[Superman]

7 hours ago, coming on strong said:

Ballard offered him the same deal just less guaranteed. When you have a guy produce and work hard for three years guaranteeing is not a massive risk . I don’t think autry even knew we were gonna draft 2 high round edge rushers since free Agency is before the draft .

 

The reports said the Colts offered him a contract, then the Titans offer was basically the same, with a little more guaranteed in Year 2. Autry took the Titans offer, then went around town talking about how the Colts slighted him. The Colts wanted to keep him, he left for a better contract. 

 

He's playing really well right now. We could use his production, for sure. But he's 31, and has never been a huge playmaker. I think a year from now, his contributions will look a lot different than they do right now. 

 

I said during free agency, and a few weeks ago, and last week, and will continue to say, I think the bigger problem is that Lewis (before injury), Turay, and Banogu have failed to provide an adequate replacement. The plan was for the young guys to step up, and for the most part, they have not done so. There were flashes from Lewis, and there are still flashes from Turay, but not enough. Turay made a nice play in coverage Thursday; we need him to make more plays on the QB though. Banogu looks lost. Even Rochell hasn't done anything so far. 

 

By this time next year, Dayo and Paye need to be terrorizing QBs. And Autry will be a distant memory. He'd still be nice to have right now.

[ColtJax]

All I know is, we need to get pressure since we have a B league CB. Still waiting on that great pass rush we spent the top of last years draft on..

[Stephen]

5 hours ago, Myles said:

I'll admit that I was bummed to see Autry leave.   

 

Perhaps that his health concerns worried Ballard too much.  In his 7 seasons he has only played 16 games twice.   

Yea we got rid of two of our best rushers and made our division rival better in the process.

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, ColtJax said:

All I know is, we need to get pressure since we have a B league CB. Still waiting on that great pass rush we spent the top of last years draft on..

 

having a B league secondary makes it all the more difficult for the pass rush to get home.  

[EastStreet]

23 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2018/1/5/16856526/mike-vrabel-to-interview-with-colts-for-head-coach-vacancy-saturday

 

I think he was

Nagy was interviewed and was assumed the early fav, but the Bears moved quickly. Vrabel was also considered and favorite, and was hired before we signed JM. We also Kris Richard and Wilks (Wilks turned down the interview invite and took another job).

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

having a B league secondary makes it all the more difficult for the pass rush to get home.  

Giving up a ton of cushion (scheme) also makes it hard as it begs for dink/dunk passing.

 

And can't ignore scheme when looking at the 3 front 7 players that we let go. 

All three are doing better in their new homes. 

 

And speaking of Autry, TN's D was pretty bad to mediocre last year. And they didn't do much in the offseason to their DBs (Farley is on IR and was one of their biggest additions). However you look at it, Autry has had a great year, and opened up things a ton for Landry. They spent on Dupree, but he hasn't done much. So safe to say Autry's addition is the single biggest impact to the Titan's defense.

 

And just from a stats perspective.... Autry is.. 

#11 in pressures

#12 in QB knock downs

 

And he's come up huge in big moments. In the last 3ish games.... 

1. Put Mahomes out of the game
2. He was doubled teamed and still abused Kelly and was one of the guys getting ready to sack Carson when he threw the INT on the goal line.
3. 2 sacks of Stafford last night 

TDN just did a story calling Autry the unsung hero of the Titans.... 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/denico-autry-tennessee-titans-defense

[Jason_]

28 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Giving up a ton of cushion (scheme) also makes it hard as it begs for dink/dunk passing.

 

And can't ignore scheme when looking at the 3 front 7 players that we let go. 

All three are doing better in their new homes. 

 

And speaking of Autry, TN's D was pretty bad to mediocre last year. And they didn't do much in the offseason to their DBs (Farley is on IR and was one of their biggest additions). However you look at it, Autry has had a great year, and opened up things a ton for Landry. They spent on Dupree, but he hasn't done much. So safe to say Autry's addition is the single biggest impact to the Titan's defense.

 

And just from a stats perspective.... Autry is.. 

#11 in pressures

#12 in QB knock downs

 

And he's come up huge in big moments. In the last 3ish games.... 

1. Put Mahomes out of the game
2. He was doubled teamed and still abused Kelly and was one of the guys getting ready to sack Carson when he threw the INT on the goal line.
3. 2 sacks of Stafford last night 

TDN just did a story calling Autry the unsung hero of the Titans.... 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/denico-autry-tennessee-titans-defense

 

I hate the colts scheme...always have.  there are only a few defensive coordinators that have ever coached it into being a really good defense, and no I do not include dungy on that list.  Rod Marinelli, Monte Kiffin, Leslie Frasier, Jack del Rio...if we're going to run a tampa/cover 2 style defense, I'd prefer one of these guys to run it, though Kiffin is all but retired.

 

Gotta also keep in mind that Landry and Simmons have, so far, been better than the guys we've had on the DL not named Buckner, but Paye and Dayo have been showing promise.  I'm looking forward to seeing more of paye-buckner-dayo-Turay together.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

I hate the colts scheme...always have.  there are only a few defensive coordinators that have ever coached it into being a really good defense, and no I do not include dungy on that list.  Rod Marinelli, Monte Kiffin, Leslie Frasier, Jack del Rio...if we're going to run a tampa/cover 2 style defense, I'd prefer one of these guys to run it, though Kiffin is all but retired.

 

Gotta also keep in mind that Landry and Simmons have, so far, been better than the guys we've had on the DL not named Buckner, but Paye and Dayo have been showing promise.  I'm looking forward to seeing more of paye-buckner-dayo-Turay together.

We run C3 more than C2 though. I wouldn't call us a Tampa 2 team at all. Regardless of coverage, I think it's more to do with too much cushion than anything.

 

Can't really buy the narrative that TN has significantly better DL components that we did last year.....

 

Landry has almost twice the production he had last year, and a lot of folks say that is due to the addition of Autry. 

Simmons only had 3 sacks total last year. Landry only 5.5... They were pretty meh last year. Insert Autry who has close to top 10 pressures in the league, and everyone seems to be doing better. 

 

We had Houston who is a good PRS (pass rush specialist), who is going well in Baltimore this year. We had Defo, who is actually doing worse without Autry. 

 

So here's a look at our starting and regular DEs + Defo vs just Autry and Houston in terms of pressures. In short, the two guys we let go have more pressures than our top 4 guys...

 

AQM 9

Lewis 7

Paye 5

Defo 14

----------

Total 34

 

 

Autry 21

Houston 14

-----------

Total 35

 

And as well as Paye is grading out, he's just not making much impact in the pass rush game. Hope things start clicking for him. 1st year DEs typically take time. Which is why I thought it pretty silly to drop both starters from last year. 

[K-148]

IIRC, in March everyone knew the Colts would have to find starting QB (not named Jameis Winston), starting LT and resign "our own guys": Leonard, Smith, Hines. When Wentz and Fisher were hurt, a lot of people asked Ballard to sign not a cheap stop gap replacements, but a quality starters. Right now the Colts have just 2,4M in cap space and Ehlinger as backup QB and Davenport as backup LT. So... where have you seen money for Autry, Houston and so on?

[coming on strong]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

The reports said the Colts offered him a contract, then the Titans offer was basically the same, with a little more guaranteed in Year 2. Autry took the Titans offer, then went around town talking about how the Colts slighted him. The Colts wanted to keep him, he left for a better contract. 

 

He's playing really well right now. We could use his production, for sure. But he's 31, and has never been a huge playmaker. I think a year from now, his contributions will look a lot different than they do right now. 

 

I said during free agency, and a few weeks ago, and last week, and will continue to say, I think the bigger problem is that Lewis (before injury), Turay, and Banogu have failed to provide an adequate replacement. The plan was for the young guys to step up, and for the most part, they have not done so. There were flashes from Lewis, and there are still flashes from Turay, but not enough. Turay made a nice play in coverage Thursday; we need him to make more plays on the QB though. Banogu looks lost. Even Rochell hasn't done anything so far. 

 

By this time next year, Dayo and Paye need to be terrorizing QBs. And Autry will be a distant memory. He'd still be nice to have right now.

My line of thinking is that even if that’s true autry could be a nice backup to paye next year .  Having him this year could of changed outcomes of close games . 7 million not bad for a good back up . I just think Ballard leaves position groups to young at times . It would be nice to have a leader like how Reggie was with ty .  I know Buckner is a leader but it would be better with a edge guy . 

[DougDew]

Ballard did not approach this year like it was a SB year.  This was a year to see what Lewis Et Al could do, and signing Autry would have cut into the opportunity to watch those younger players.

 

It doesn't matter if Autry made the team better.  Having the best possible team this year was not the goal.  Many here don't get that.

 

Besides, since we are near the cap, we would not have afforded him unless one of the other financial moves were not made this year.  Which player that we have now should not be here or should not have extended, Fisher, Reed, Leonard or Hines come to mind.

 

No blunder.  Autry was a strategic let-go, and probably a good one.