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Hines not being used properly


BProland85
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When Rivers was here, Hines was being used more as a mismatch slot receiver, which he excels at.

 

So far in 2021, Hines hasn’t been utilized properly with Wentz, and maybe that’s because of their styles. I would hope with the fact that they used Sproles often in Philly’s 2017 season, that Nyheim’s usage would increase in the passing game, especially when needing to get the ball out quick to a shifty weapon. 

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Its a sign that the offense as a whole is improving, because a proper offense should not have its APB be its biggest playmaker. 

 

JT is better this year, Pittman is better this year, and Wentz is finding more down the field plays than the near the LOS stuff that Hines runs.

 

Wentz, JT, and the WRs, even TY and PC when they played, are making the plays....which is the way it should be.

 

Hines should not be that important to an O.  JMO.

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i love when hines and taylor are on the field at the same time .  hines is amazing running routes he is a slot wr who can run the ball also.    they actually had the same play last night from the detriot game where hines back flipped .  it was covered up and wentz threw it to mo

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Not sure I'd call his use last year "slot WR" like. They were just running back passes for the most part.

 

He's still the 3rd most targeted player on our roster. He's got more targets than Taylor, yet Taylor has more yards and a better AVG.

 

I said last year that Taylor would be just as good as a receiving back, and that's shown true the first 7 games this year.

 

He'll get more reps if Mack is traded, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a great thing. As a runner, his average is only 3.4.

 

And Hines had his chance last night to look the part and likely score an easy TD. But he dropped an easy pass.

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35 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Its a sign that the offense as a whole is improving, because a proper offense should not have its APB be its biggest playmaker. 

 

JT is better this year, Pittman is better this year, and Wentz is finding more down the field plays than the near the LOS stuff that Hines runs.

 

Wentz, JT, and the WRs, even TY and PC when they played, are making the plays....which is the way it should be.

 

Hines should not be that important to an O.  JMO.

Hines is a terrific slot receiver who can get open in tight spaces. Why not use him, especially when needing to convert a 3rd down. 

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10 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Hines is a terrific slot receiver who can get open in tight spaces. Why not use him, especially when needing to convert a 3rd down. 

Because he might drop it

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17 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Hines is a terrific slot receiver who can get open in tight spaces. Why not use him, especially when needing to convert a 3rd down. 


When they put him in that two back set with JT it makes the D make a decision.  Stay with the heavier line up and play the run or defend him as a receiver.   
 

Either way it gives us an advantage.   I don’t know why it’s not used more.  

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43 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I think things are messed up with Hines right now due to Mack still being here.  Hopefully we can move Mack so Hines can get things going.

I really hope we can deal Mack for a quality depth corner or safety. 

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1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

Hines is a terrific slot receiver who can get open in tight spaces. Why not use him, especially when needing to convert a 3rd down. 

Fine with me.  I've always thought we should think of him more as a receiver than a RB.  Whenever we've used him to run up the gut, its been a misuse, and we've been misusing him for 4 years.  Why complain now?

 

But to your specific issue of how he plays now compared to last year, if your QB looks more down field instead of near the LOS compared to last year, And the RB busts off longer runs and is more productive because he's better than last year, Hines' dynamic touches and production is going to tail off from last year.

 

Its the exact point some here made when there was a discussion about extending Hines now or wait until nearer the end of the season to see what his impact is as the other players fill out their roles better.

 

And if Granson emerges as more of a threat than Burton was, and PC strings some games together, and TY does his thing, exactly how much production is left for Hines?  

 

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1 hour ago, Wentzszn said:

I think things are messed up with Hines right now due to Mack still being here.  Hopefully we can move Mack so Hines can get things going.

Why would anything be messed up with Hines because of Mack?   They aren't in anyway comparable.    Hines had an opportunity last night and dropped the pass.   Frank isn't sending Mack on that route.  All three guys are playmakers.   No need to get rid of Mack to get Hines more touches.  

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2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why would anything be messed up with Hines because of Mack?   They aren't in anyway comparable.    Hines had an opportunity last night and dropped the pass.   Frank isn't sending Mack on that route.  All three guys are playmakers.   No need to get rid of Mack to get Hines more touches.  

It’s pretty clear Hines is the one losing touches for Mack because Taylor isn’t losing them.  
 

With that said yes dumping Mack to get Hines more touches would be dumb but they aren’t shopping Mack because of that no matter what anyone here says.  They are shopping Mack because Mack asked for a trade.

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The offense had almost ZERO TRAINING CAMP together. 
 

Give it some time.   The team is getting better.   We will show more looks in November and December.   
 

Give it some time.   We haven’t forgotten about Hines.   Would you have written this post if Hines didn’t drop a wide open 75 yard touchdown?    He might still be running, he was that wide open. 

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44 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I would agree Hines useage looks weird, and the same for Pascal the last 3 games.

Yeah pascal hasn’t  had a great couple games in pass catching.  With Campbell out I think his targets might go back up. He still had 84% of snaps just isn’t getting targeted.

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We definitely have unique weapons.  Hines, Granson, and Mo are some examples.  Sometimes i feel their unique qualities, for which they were essentially drafted, aren't being utilized optimally.  Take advantage of the mismatches.  Dictate to the defense.  Adjust these unique talents and weapons weekly to suit the opponent.  The so-called belichek way.   Put pressure on the opposition by utilizing your strengths, having a gameplan for their strengths, and attacking their weaknesses.

  Guys like Hines and Granson have advantages to their uniqueness, but they won’t necessarily fit the “standard” usage.  Like Hines up the middle or Granson “muscling” in the red zone.  I think u gotta use them as they are suited.  
It could just be a familiarity thing too.  Carson still getting to know basically everyone. 

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1 hour ago, BlackTiger said:

Hines was probably a better fit with Rivers

Rivers had it dialed in with Ikeler.  I think its more of Hines resembling Ikeler so much (comfortable for Rivers) and the style of quick hitting offense we were running.  Not to mention there were always a wr or two injured.  Hines was a constant Phil could count on.

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Just now, WoolMagnet said:

Rivers had it dialed in with Ikeler.  I think its more of Hines resembling Ikeler so much (comfortable for Rivers) and the style of quick hitting offense we were running.  Not to mention there were always a wr or two injured.  Hines was a constant Phil could count on.

Additionally, Wentz looks downfield ALOT more.

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The real mystery is why Ballard felt compelled to sign him to such a huge contract. He’s getting paid like a top 10 RB. Either that’s too much green or Reich isn’t using him right — both can’t be true. 

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6 hours ago, ShuteAt168 said:

The real mystery is why Ballard felt compelled to sign him to such a huge contract. He’s getting paid like a top 10 RB. Either that’s too much green or Reich isn’t using him right — both can’t be true. 


100% agree 

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I agree Hines is being used improperly.

 

I'm gonna let Hines slide on the dropped pass. It was a monsoon, and even though I think he took his eyes off the pass, I'm sure the slippery ball didn't help. I will say he's been playing scared or something lately, but I can't quite put my finger on what's wrong. Even at RB on the handoff, he gets those happy feet that Manning used to. 

 

That said, this team/Reich has got to figure out that Hines and JT are NOT interchangeable. JT is an elite RB between the tackles. We all know Hines is more of a WR than RB and should be used more in the passing game. It drives me insane that he takes JT's snaps and runs up the middle and gets stonewalled most of the time.

 

I've said this a million times, but line Hines up at WR sometimes.....good things would happen. Or put both JT and Hines back there and roll them out for passes. At least one of them would be covered by a LB, and they would blow right by them. 

 

I'm a big fan of Mack, but I don't like him taking snaps from JT unless JT is gassed from a long run. 

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Not sure if it's a mystery. Seems like a different offense with a healthy, mobile Carson Wentz. And perhaps one that doesn't rely on an APB in the passing game, much like Rivers did.

 

Prior to this past game, Hines had really only been involved in TWO games...the SEA games (Wentz coming off the foot surgery) and the TEN game (a few days after he sprained his ankle). So basically the two games where Wentz had limited mobility.

 

Rivers was great at using RBs in the passing game as check down options to pick up chunk yardage. That's not Wentz's game. But in the two games where he couldn't move as well (and the OL was bad), the Colts had to defer to that short passing game.

 

And to be fair, it's not like he should be taking snaps from Taylor. I think the real mystery is why they paid him, if the past few games is the vision for this offense.

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