Kiper comment on Wentz trade (merge)

[hoosierhawk]

I know Kiper is not a real popular guy on here but I think you will enjoy his comments on Wentz trade. He said it was one of the most ridicNFL history." For the Colts a stroke of genius".

 

"It’s unbelievable. Carson Wentz is a young man who is a proven MVP guy. He did things in three years that very few quarterbacks have done. So to me, with the injuries, they were catastrophic. Everybody has injuries. Not everybody has catastrophic injuries to offensive linemen too, before the season even begins. Receivers, tight end, running back. Nothing going on and we’re going to blame the quarterback and then send him packing for virtually nothing that equates to a quarterback with his skill set and what he’s already accomplished at a young age. This was, again, one of the most ridiculously stupid moves probably in the history of the NFL. One of the most ridiculously stupid moves. There’s a lot of them. This is right up there near the top."

 

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/eagles-carson-wentz-trade-stupid-mel-kiper

 

[GoColts8818]

Kiper is what he is a draft guru.  What I don’t think ESPN gets when they show the Tobin rant is that Tobin was right and Kiper was wrong because Kiper was arguing the Colts should have drafted Dilfer or Shuler (forget which) because Harbaugh wasn’t the answer at QB.  Harbaugh of course would go on to lead the Colts to an AFC title game and play at an MVP level and really give the Colts their first taste of playoff success in Indy in one of the most magical seasons in Colts history.  
 

With that said since Jim Irsay has taken over the Colts he doesn’t really go after them nearly as much.  I think he had more of an issue with Bob Irsay than anything else and well get in line on that one.  

[Smonroe]

This has been discussed ad infinitum.  Kiper, etal, won't be proven right or wrong until we see how Wentz plays. 

 

If he plays like a top 10 QB, then Kiper is right.  It was a great move by the Colts.  Franchise QBs are worth way more than what we gave up.

 

If the Eagles get our 2nd round pick next year, then it means they probably made the good move.

 

Anything in the middle (Wentz is average, but he plays a majority of the snaps) is going to be a moot argument.

 

Bottom line, the trade is done.  There's no going back.  I'm betting on Wentz and Reich, FWIW.

[BlueShoe]

I kind of feel the same way Kiper does. If Wentz returns to form, this will be one of the most lopsided trades of this century. 

[JoeThornburg]

You can clearly see everyone on that panel laughing at him, but he does bring up some fair points about other problems in Philadelphia that not many people were really talking about, even after this trade first went public. Anyone who follows football closely knew that the Eagles in general were a dumpster fire last year, up to and including the Head Coach.

 

But, I'm not going to compare the acquisition of Wentz to the Herschel Walker trade. That just makes his comments sound like something that would come out of Skip Bayless' mouth. 

[ColtStrong2013]

7 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

I kind of feel the same way Kiper does. If Wentz returns to form, this will be one of the most lopsided trades of this century. 

Ballard knows what the pros and cons to it are. Worst thing that can happen, he bombs and they move on, in which case Ballard and Reich will get an opportunity to find one in the draft (IMO) because even if he bombs, this team can still win a lot of football games. 
 

if wentz excels and turns into our guy, especially if we wind up a championship team, this trade will put Ballard in the hall of fame, as the 2018 trade with the Jets turned out to be highway robbery, and this would too if Wentz succeeds here. We gave up far more for a defensive tackle (and I don’t discredit Buckner because I think we stole him too) but position value, a franchise qb should be worth several first round picks. 

[shasta519]

43 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

I know Kiper is not a real popular guy on here but I think you will enjoy his comments on Wentz trade. He said it was one of the most ridicNFL history." For the Colts a stroke of genius".

 

"It’s unbelievable. Carson Wentz is a young man who is a proven MVP guy. He did things in three years that very few quarterbacks have done. So to me, with the injuries, they were catastrophic. Everybody has injuries. Not everybody has catastrophic injuries to offensive linemen too, before the season even begins. Receivers, tight end, running back. Nothing going on and we’re going to blame the quarterback and then send him packing for virtually nothing that equates to a quarterback with his skill set and what he’s already accomplished at a young age. This was, again, one of the most ridiculously stupid moves probably in the history of the NFL. One of the most ridiculously stupid moves. There’s a lot of them. This is right up there near the top."

 

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/eagles-carson-wentz-trade-stupid-mel-kiper

 

 

I hope he's right. I don't think he's right...but I hope so.

 

But this rant is from the same guy who said that Hurts "was happy to be an NFL backup." That's how he sees Hurts. A team moving on from Wentz to Hurts is unfathomable to Kiper.

 

But regardless, PHI didn't even blame Wentz and send him packing. They fired their HC and Wentz was the one who still wanted out. The blame lies (and was placed) on everybody...it was a falling out. So I hate lazy takes like this.

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Kiper is what he is a draft guru.  What I don’t think ESPN gets when they show the Tobin rant is that Tobin was right and Kiper was wrong because Kiper was arguing the Colts should have drafted Dilfer or Shuler (forget which) because Harbaugh wasn’t the answer at QB.  Harbaugh of course would go on to lead the Colts to an AFC title game and play at an MVP level and really give the Colts their first taste of playoff success in Indy in one of the most magical seasons in Colts history.  
 

With that said since Jim Irsay has taken over the Colts he doesn’t really go after them nearly as much.  I think he had more of an issue with Bob Irsay than anything else and well get in line on that one.  

Whether Tobin was right or wrong the reason ESPN still runs that clip is this....   roughly 35 years later Kiper is still standing.   Way back then, Kiper was new, no one really knew him.  Professional people like Tobin weren’t used to being publicly shamed by an unknown like Kiper.   I don’t blame anyone, Tobin or Kiper. 
 

Kiper remains a polarizing figure, but he is the dean of all the draft analysts.  Everyone else owes Mel Kiper a debt of thanks for the jobs they have and the money they make.  
 

You may not like him,  but Mel is on all the time.   Ratings spike when he’s on.   ESPN tracks this stuff.   They wouldn’t use him as much, or pay him as much, if they didn’t. 

[BlueShoe]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Whether Tobin was right or wrong the reason ESPN still runs that clip is this....   roughly 35 years later Kiper is still standing.   Way back then, Kiper was new, no one really knew him.  Professional people like Tobin weren’t used to being publicly shamed by an unknown like Kiper.   I don’t blame anyone, Tobin or Kiper. 
 

Kiper remains a polarizing figure, but he is the dean of all the draft analysts.  Everyone else owes Mel Kiper a debt of thanks for the jobs they have and the money they make.  
 

You may not like him,  but Mel is on all the time.   Ratings spike when he’s on.   ESPN tracks this stuff.   They wouldn’t use him as much, or pay him as much, if they didn’t. 

It’s true that the draft was not a household event like it is today, but Kiper had been at this for a long time. Some of us draft nuts can remember him talking about draft prospects back in the early 80s. Back then I’d grab annual magazines to get the scoop on prospects, and catch what I could on ESPN... 

 

You're right that Kiper is the grandfather of the NFL Draft as we (as fans) know it. He helped shape an entire industry. 
 

I was actually thinking about this earlier today, regarding my profession, but it rings true here too. Some successful people find a lane and do everything they can to be great at it. However, the most successful people tend to create a lane and be great at it.
 

Kiper absolutely created and helped shape this lane, and it was an area that was much needed. My only surprise is just how many people followed it. I never imagined the NFL Draft to get this big. I kind of figured there would always be a niche for us draft nuts, but they’ve marketed it so well that it even catches the interest of the casual draft fans. 

[JoeThornburg]

21 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Whether Tobin was right or wrong the reason ESPN still runs that clip is this....   roughly 35 years later Kiper is still standing.   Way back then, Kiper was new, no one really knew him.  Professional people like Tobin weren’t used to being publicly shamed by an unknown like Kiper.   I don’t blame anyone, Tobin or Kiper. 
 

Kiper remains a polarizing figure, but he is the dean of all the draft analysts.  Everyone else owes Mel Kiper a debt of thanks for the jobs they have and the money they make.  
 

You may not like him,  but Mel is on all the time.   Ratings spike when he’s on.   ESPN tracks this stuff.   They wouldn’t use him as much, or pay him as much, if they didn’t. 

I'm not trying to discredit Kiper at all. I am fully aware of how long he's been around and how good he is at what he does. Another name that comes to mind in that echelon is Beano Cook. (Showing my age a little bit here lol)

I'm simply saying that comparing the Wentz trade at this moment in time to something like the Herschel Walker trade is a bit of a reach, at best and just deliberate troll bait at worst. Wentz hasn't even taken a snap for Indy and he's going there? It's a little off-putting knowing how good of an analyst Kiper really is.

[hoosierhawk]

47 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I hope he's right. I don't think he's right...but I hope so.

 

But this rant is from the same guy who said that Hurts "was happy to be an NFL backup." That's how he sees Hurts. A team moving on from Wentz to Hurts is unfathomable to Kiper.

 

But regardless, PHI didn't even blame Wentz and send him packing. They fired their HC and Wentz was the one who still wanted out. The blame lies (and was placed) on everybody...it was a falling out. So I hate lazy takes like this.

 

Philly didn't have a gun to their head being forced to make the trade. They put a rediculous price out there and they were then forced to take what they could get. It's just another opinion and I thought it was interesting.

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

It’s true that the draft was not a household event like it is today, but Kiper had been at this for a long time. Some of us draft nuts can remember him talking about draft prospects back in the early 80s. Back then I’d grab annual magazines to get the scoop on prospects, and catch what I could on ESPN... 

 

You're right that Kiper is the grandfather of the NFL Draft as we (as fans) know it. He helped shape an entire industry. 
 

I was actually thinking about this earlier today, regarding my profession, but it rings true here too. Some successful people find a lane and do everything they can to be great at it. However, the most successful people tend to create a lane and be great at it.
 

Kiper absolutely created and helped shape this lane, and it was an area that was much needed. My only surprise is just how many people followed it. I never imagined the NFL Draft to get this big. I kind of figured there would always be a niche for us draft nuts, but they’ve marketed it so well that it even catches the interest of the casual draft fans. 

Nice post from the way back when machine!

 

Once upon a time, I too, also subscribed to Mel’s books and news letters.   I used to save them.  Think they disappeared 25 years ago when my wife and I bought our home. 
 

But, in the mid-80’s, I actually called Mel at his house and inquired about moving East and working for him.  We had a nice, but brief talk.  Ultimately,  he explained that his was just a family operation.  He, his wife, and his parents.   Four people, that’s it. 
 

I don’t love everything about him.  I think he’s way too hard and sometimes disrespectful to McShay.   I think he can bend the truth when it’s convenient.  But I don’t care about his hair, or his quirky personality.  He often is the first analyst to come up with a new player who will soon become a hit candidate.  He can analyze tape and he’s got sources everywhere. 
 

I don’t rely on one analyst.  I use them all.   But only the best and most reputable.  

[GoColts8818]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Whether Tobin was right or wrong the reason ESPN still runs that clip is this....   roughly 35 years later Kiper is still standing.   Way back then, Kiper was new, no one really knew him.  Professional people like Tobin weren’t used to being publicly shamed by an unknown like Kiper.   I don’t blame anyone, Tobin or Kiper. 
 

Kiper remains a polarizing figure, but he is the dean of all the draft analysts.  Everyone else owes Mel Kiper a debt of thanks for the jobs they have and the money they make.  
 

You may not like him,  but Mel is on all the time.   Ratings spike when he’s on.   ESPN tracks this stuff.   They wouldn’t use him as much, or pay him as much, if they didn’t. 

I don’t think I said didn’t like him.  I just explained a back story behind a a very famous clip,  that doesn’t mean I don’t like him.  It’s ironic the clip that put him on the map was actually of him being very wrong that’s all.  Can you stop trying to pick fights with people by putting words in their mouths?  
 

Just so you know I enjoy Kiper’s radio show.  I enjoy his work on the draft and even said in my post that he’s a draft guru and that I think the reason so many think he doesn’t like the Colts is because he didn’t like Bob Irsay, which a large number of people didn’t, not because he dislikes the Colts as a whole.  

[BlueShoe]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Nice post from the way back when machine!

 

Once upon a time, I too, also subscribed to Mel’s books and news letters.   I used to save them.  Think they disappeared 25 years ago when my wife and I bought our home. 
 

But, in the mid-80’s, I actually called Mel at his house and inquired about moving East and working for him.  We had a nice, but brief talk.  Ultimately,  he explained that his was just a family operation.  He, his wife, and his parents.   Four people, that’s it. 
 

I don’t love everything about him.  I think he’s way too hard and sometimes disrespectful to McShay.   I think he can bend the truth when it’s convenient.  But I don’t care about his hair, or his quirky personality.  He often is the first analyst to come up with a new player who will soon become a hit candidate.  He can analyze tape and he’s got sources everywhere. 
 

I don’t rely on one analyst.  I use them all.   But only the best and most reputable.  

That’s an awesome story! Thanks for sharing. 
 

I remember hearing about how the then Baltimore Colts would do everything they could to run him out of the building. He was on a mission, and he was passionate about it. He has had my respect for decades now.  

[BlueStallion]

1 hour ago, BlueShoe said:

I kind of feel the same way Kiper does. If Wentz returns to form, this will be one of the most lopsided trades of this century. 

Even if Wentz never returns to his 2017 MVP level of play, but proves himself to be a consistently average or above-average QB, this trade would still be a huge win for Ballard.

 

As for the most lopsided trades so far this century, sadly, the Colts would also get on that list for being on the losing end of two other deals:  Giving Cleveland a 1st round pick for Trent Richardson; and trading away another 1st to move up in the 2nd round to draft Tony Ugoh.  Maybe not among top 10 most lopsided, but probably top 20.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t think I said didn’t like him.  I just explained a back story behind a a very famous clip,  that doesn’t mean I don’t like him.  It’s ironic the clip that put him on the map was actually of him being very wrong that’s all.  Can you stop trying to pick fights with people by putting words in their mouths?  
 

Just so you know I enjoy Kiper’s radio show.  I enjoy his work on the draft and even said in my post that he’s a draft guru and that I think the reason so many think he doesn’t like the Colts is because he didn’t like Bob Irsay, which a large number of people didn’t, not because he dislikes the Colts as a whole.  

Huh?
 

I’m not picking a fight with anyone.   You’re reading tone and attitude when there’s none there.  I’m just explaining my view.  Nothing more. 
 

Sigh....

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, BlueStallion said:

Even if Wentz never returns to his 2017 MVP level of play, but proves himself to be a consistently average or above-average QB, this trade would still be a huge win for Ballard.

 

As for the most lopsided trades so far this century, sadly, the Colts would also get on that list for being on the losing end of two other deals:  Giving Cleveland a 1st round pick for Trent Richardson; and trading away another 1st to move up in the 2nd round to draft Tony Ugoh.  Maybe not among top 10 most lopsided, but probably top 20.

Yeah. Those were 2 bad deals for us. 
 

Trading back from 3 to 6 with the Jets was a phenomenal trade for us. I really don’t see any downside to the Wentz trade either. Even if he bombs, it gives us a year to either prepare Eason (and know what we have in him) or go a different direction. 

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Huh?
 

I’m not picking a fight with anyone.   You’re reading tone and attitude when there’s none there.  I’m just explaining my view.  Nothing more. 
 

Sigh....

You flat out said “you might not like him...”. I never said anything about not liking him.

[BlueShoe]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Huh?
 

I’m not picking a fight with anyone.   You’re reading tone and attitude when there’s none there.  I’m just explaining my view.  Nothing more. 
 

Sigh....

 

I have found that a sincerely placed smiley face can make all the difference when communicating in text. I haven’t followed all of your discussion, but it seems like you two are mostly in agreement. But then again, you can read my signature to see how I really feel about it.   

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

You flat out said “you might not like him...”. I never said anything about not liking him.

I know what I said.   But, that’s not what I meant.  Poor choice of words by me.   I own it.

 

By “you”, I meant any poster here who was reading my words.   I’ll try to pick my words better the next time.  My bad. 

[Fluke_33]

34 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Nice post from the way back when machine!

 

Once upon a time, I too, also subscribed to Mel’s books and news letters.   I used to save them.  Think they disappeared 25 years ago when my wife and I bought our home. 
 

But, in the mid-80’s, I actually called Mel at his house and inquired about moving East and working for him.  We had a nice, but brief talk.  Ultimately,  he explained that his was just a family operation.  He, his wife, and his parents.   Four people, that’s it. 
 

I don’t love everything about him.  I think he’s way too hard and sometimes disrespectful to McShay.   I think he can bend the truth when it’s convenient.  But I don’t care about his hair, or his quirky personality.  He often is the first analyst to come up with a new player who will soon become a hit candidate.  He can analyze tape and he’s got sources everywhere. 
 

I don’t rely on one analyst.  I use them all.   But only the best and most reputable.  

I have every draft book from Pro football weekly back to 1990.  They were great when it was Joel Bushbaum's analysis but slipped after he passed.  They're all in a box somewhere.  lol.  

[JoeThornburg]

To be honest the more I think about this airing on ESPN, the more it irritates me that people are even taking this seriously. To me it just shows how desperate people on that network are for attention right now. Wentz isn't Steve Young or John Elway. For all we know right now he's the reincarnation of Jeff George. He's still got serious footwork issues to correct. It's just an asinine comment to make without anything empirical attached to it.

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I have every draft book from Pro football weekly back to 1990.  They were great when it was Joel Bushbaum's analysis but slipped after he passed.  They're all in a box somewhere.  lol.  

I bought and kept those for years as well.  ESPN actually used him on camera one year.  I think it was Pre-Kiper.   A more un-telegenic analyst there has never been.   It was a one year experiment.   And that was that. 
 

Good memory by you!    

[BlueShoe]

22 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

To be honest the more I think about this airing on ESPN, the more it irritates me that people are even taking this seriously. To me it just shows how desperate people on that network are for attention right now. Wentz isn't Steve Young or John Elway. For all we know right now he's the reincarnation of Jeff George. He's still got serious footwork issues to correct. It's just an asinine comment to make without anything empirical attached to it.

Not to be argumentative, as we all have a right our own opinion.... But I think there is an argument to be made that Wentz could have a career very similar to Steve Young. 
 

And Wentz, obviously does not have the Jeff George syndrome. George would throw anyone under the bus in a heartbeat and just wasn’t a very mature person. Wentz has proven to be very savvy with the media and he chooses his words very well. If George could have learned the importance of relationships then his entire career would have been different, because he had the physical tools. 
 

Jeff George once told the media that he didn’t even know the names of his offensive linemen. 

[JoeThornburg]

7 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

Not to be argumentative, as we all have a right our own opinion.... But I think there is an argument to be made that Wentz could have a career very similar to Steve Young. 
 

And Wentz, obviously does not have the Jeff George syndrome. George would throw anyone under the bus in a heartbeat and just wasn’t a very mature person. Wentz has proven to be very savvy with the media and he chooses his words very well. If George could have learned the importance of relationships then his entire career would have been different, because he had the physical tools. 
 

Jeff George once told the media that he didn’t even know the names of his offensive linemen. 

I don't disagree with you at all. The issue I have with this is that Kiper uses film and hard evidence to base his opinions from. This is why I don't understand the comment. He didn't even put a qualifier in there like an "if this doesn't happen" or "if this does happen". Sure it could turn out either way.

In terms of the locker room, I always believe that where there is smoke, there is fire. Not to say that fire will still burn in Indy. No guarantees. I mean The Colts kicked the tires on Stafford before entertaining this deal. That's all I can really say bout this. It just comes across as irresponsible given the stature of the man.

[ponyboy]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

I have every draft book from Pro football weekly back to 1990.  They were great when it was Joel Bushbaum's analysis but slipped after he passed.  They're all in a box somewhere.  lol.  

 

Same here. Kiper, Ourlads, TSN, Football Weekly   I started seriously following it in 1989.  What an incredible draft that was.  Check out the top 6.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_NFL_Draft

[BlueShoe]

13 minutes ago, JoeThornburg said:

I don't disagree with you at all. The issue I have with this is that Kiper uses film and hard evidence to base his opinions from. This is why I don't understand the comment. He didn't even put a qualifier in there like an "if this doesn't happen" or "if this does happen". Sure it could turn out either way.

In terms of the locker room, I always believe that where there is smoke, there is fire. Not to say that fire will still burn in Indy. No guarantees. I mean The Colts kicked the tires on Stafford before entertaining this deal. That's all I can really say bout this. It just comes across as irresponsible given the stature of the man.

Obviously I cannot speak for Kiper. We can quote what he has said, and might even find different context in it. 
 

That said, I think Kiper sees this as a no lose situation for the Colts, just as many of us do. However, the upside of this deal is tremendous. We’re talking about getting a potential MVP quarterback for a late 3rd and a late 1st. If we look at it from the upside point of view then Kiper is right. If we look at it from the downside point of view then Kiper is merely overselling it. 
 

Even if Wentz never wins an MVP, but his QB play is in the top 10 each year, over the next decade... It would have been very unlikely the Colts would have found a QB of that magnitude with the draft capital they gave up.

 

It’s very likely that Kiper has played the odds which are highly in his favor, of this being a great move for the Colts. 
 

I think Frank Reich has said it better than anyone can, and I will paraphrase him and mix in my thoughts as well. The collapse of Wentz in Philly was a perfect storm. Injuries all across the Eagles 53 mounted up, he was trying to do too much, taking a mental beating from the Philly fans, taking a physical beating from opposing defenses... Wentz and the Eagles were at a breaking point. That statue in front of the stadium is not of Wentz... They took a QB with a relatively high draft choice... The Eagles benched him in favor of the draft pick... The Eagles weren’t married to Carson Wentz. And it was time for a fresh start. Luckily for us, that new journey is with the Colts. 

[JoeThornburg]

19 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

Obviously I cannot speak for Kiper. We can quote what he has said, and might even find different context in it. 
 

That said, I think Kiper sees this as a no lose situation for the Colts, just as many of us do. However, the upside of this deal is tremendous. We’re talking about getting a potential MVP quarterback for a late 3rd and a late 1st. If we look at it from the upside point of view then Kiper is right. If we look at it from the downside point of view then Kiper is merely overselling it. 
 

Even if Wentz never wins an MVP, but his QB play is in the top 10 each year, over the next decade... It would have been very unlikely the Colts would have found a QB of that magnitude with the draft capital they gave up.

 

It’s very likely that Kiper has played the odds which are highly in his favor, of this being a great move for the Colts. 
 

I think Frank Reich has said it better than anyone can, and I will paraphrase him and mix in my thoughts as well. The collapse of Wentz in Philly was a perfect storm. Injuries all across the Eagles 53 mounted up, he was trying to do too much, taking a mental beating from the Philly fans, taking a physical beating from opposing defenses... Wentz and the Eagles were at a breaking point. That statue in front of the stadium is not of Wentz... They took a QB with a relatively high draft choice... The Eagles benched him in favor of the draft pick... The Eagles weren’t married to Carson Wentz. And it was time for a fresh start. Luckily for us, that new journey is with the Colts. 

I get it again, and personally I don't care who has the Anna Nicole or Pam Anderson issues of Playboy stashed under their bed. I'm paraphrasing here but I think we all know what I am referring to. 

 

Point blank period, draft pundits and teams overvalue QBs in this day and age. They over draft and they over pay for them, and to date it has not proven to be a winning formula. This deal definitely does have high potential for upside. But at the same time lets consider how much weight people place on potential franchise destroying over commitment to the QB position. Look at the smoldering pile of trash that is the Pittsburgh Steelers right now. All because of one thing, they decided it would be better to allow a QB to eat over $40M in cap hit than to resign players that are still ascending. That was a great defense last year. Done, gone. Gotta have a marquee QB right? Forget about the rest of the team. Kiper even said it himself about the pieces that weren't in place in Philly last season. So he's inherently contradicting himself with this statement to be nice about it. We can insert Mahomes here as proof that I am wrong and neglect to mention some rando named Tom Brady.

 

The bottom line here is that Philadelphia is a complete and total dumpster fire all the way around and they have way more issues to worry about right now than their QB situation. Their head coach was proven to be incompetent, as has much of the Andy Reid coaching tree. Let's also talk about why Bieniemy didn't get a head coaching gig this year and plug in the straw man that it's about race while we are at it, instead of looking at cold hard facts.

 

This was a smart move by the Colts. I will not argue that point one bit. But was it a truly dumb move by Philly given everything that is wrong with that team right now, coming from a guy who has 4 QBs coming off the board and 5 coming off the board by 15 just because they happen to play the QB position regardless of talent or question marks? You really think Mac Jones is worth a #15 pick? Johnny Manziel anyone? He never trailed in a single game he played in. Playing behind a loaded roster against high school grade talent. Let's get real here. Unfortunately we are in the age of analytics ad ridiculum.

 

The only other thing I will say here, is that Tom Brady had none... repeat none of the traits "we" look at or measure, simply because nobody opened up his chest and looked at what was burning in his guts.

 

#heartofachampion

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, JoeThornburg said:

I get it again, and personally I don't care who has the Anna Nicole or Pam Anderson issues of Playboy stashed under their bed. I'm paraphrasing here but I think we all know what I am referring to. 

 

Point blank period, draft pundits and teams overvalue QBs in this day and age. They over draft and they over pay for them, and to date it has not proven to be a winning formula. This deal definitely does have high potential for upside. But at the same time lets consider how much weight people place on potential franchise destroying over commitment to the QB position. Look at the smoldering pile of trash that is the Pittsburgh Steelers right now. All because of one thing, they decided it would be better to allow a QB to eat over $40M in cap hit than to resign players that are still ascending. That was a great defense last year. Done, gone. Gotta have a marquee QB right? Forget about the rest of the team. Kiper even said it himself about the pieces that weren't in place in Philly last season. So he's inherently contradicting himself with this statement to be nice about it. We can insert Mahomes here as proof that I am wrong and neglect to mention some rando named Tom Brady.

 

The bottom line here is that Philadelphia is a complete and total dumpster fire all the way around and they have way more issues to worry about right now than their QB situation. Their head coach was proven to be incompetent, as has much of the Andy Reid coaching tree. Let's also talk about why Bieniemy didn't get a head coaching gig this year and plug in the straw man that it's about race while we are at it, instead of looking at cold hard facts.

 

This was a smart move by the Colts. I will not argue that point one bit. But was it a truly dumb move by Philly given everything that is wrong with that team right now, coming from a guy who has 4 QBs coming off the board and 5 coming off the board by 15 just because they happen to play the QB position regardless of talent or question marks? You really think Mac Jones is worth a #15 pick? Johnny Manziel anyone? He never trailed in a single game he played in. Playing behind a loaded roster against high school grade talent. Let's get real here. Unfortunately we are in the age of analytics ad ridiculum.

 

The only other thing I will say here, is that Tom Brady had none... repeat none of the traits "we" look at or measure, simply because nobody opened up his chest and looked at what was burning in his guts.

 

#heartofachampion

What are you trying to say that is relevent to this conversation?

[twfish]

He was definitely the on the lower end of my board for QB's I wanted. Like most i just knew what the national media was saying but as you start to look into it, my lord was philly bad. Plus that city was definitely not a fit for Carson. A quiet laid back guy who doesn't want the spot light. There's honestly not a better fit for him then here. The Eagles did him absolutely zero favors last year. Putting him in questionable positions with bad personnel and expecting him to make something out of nothing all while being ready to yank him out of the starting line up at a moments notice. Yea you are always going to fight a back up but the coaching staff was searching for an opportunity to send Hurts in.  The more I've looked into him the more I definitely like him. Personally I think the floor is 2020 Rivers

[JoeThornburg]

1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

What are you trying to say that is relevent to this conversation?

Yeah you read the first sentence and skipped the rest of the post. Not trying to be combative here but when you compare the Wentz trade to something like the Herschel Walker trade before the guy has even taken a snap for this team, it's just ludicrous.

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don’t love everything about him.  I think he’s way too hard and sometimes disrespectful to McShay.   I think he can bend the truth when it’s convenient.  But I don’t care about his hair, or his quirky personality.  He often is the first analyst to come up with a new player who will soon become a hit candidate.  He can analyze tape and he’s got sources everywhere. 
 

 

 

Maybe you don't care about his hair, but there are some of us who certainly do! Hahaha! Mel Kiper is 2 things to me: he is a draft expert and he is an entertainer. Does he get every pick right? No way! Is he entertaining? In my opinion, very much so. If there was no Mel Kiper the NFL Draft might still be taking place in some hotel conference room in NYC instead of being the spectacle that it is today. Like many others here, I appreciate what Mel has done for the game of football. I would go as far to say that he deserves to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame as a contributor to the game. The guy can be dead wrong from time to time but he has helped to make the NFL Draft the event that it is today!

[BlueShoe]

6 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Maybe you don't care about his hair, but there are some of us who certainly do! Hahaha! Mel Kiper is 2 things to me: he is a draft expert and he is an entertainer. Does he get every pick right? No way! Is he entertaining? In my opinion, very much so. If there was no Mel Kiper the NFL Draft might still be taking place in some hotel conference room in NYC instead of being the spectacle that it is today. Like many others here, I appreciate what Mel has done for the game of football. I would go as far to say that he deserves to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame as a contributor to the game. The guy can be dead wrong from time to time but he has helped to make the NFL Draft the event that it is today!

What I like most about Mel; he is who he wants to be, and he says what he wants to say. Others have pointed it out already, but historically every year, there will be a guy who is basically an unranked prospect... and after Mel puts him on the big board, the prospect moves up on everyone’s board. Mel has a lot of inside information, and he has earned the trust of many GMs and scouts over the years. 
 

BTW, I dig your stage name. Been an admirer of it for a few years.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Maybe you don't care about his hair, but there are some of us who certainly do! Hahaha! Mel Kiper is 2 things to me: he is a draft expert and he is an entertainer. Does he get every pick right? No way! Is he entertaining? In my opinion, very much so. If there was no Mel Kiper the NFL Draft might still be taking place in some hotel conference room in NYC instead of being the spectacle that it is today. Like many others here, I appreciate what Mel has done for the game of football. I would go as far to say that he deserves to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame as a contributor to the game. The guy can be dead wrong from time to time but he has helped to make the NFL Draft the event that it is today!

Yes Mel, you do have beautiful hair, I am jealous  . Just messing around but I do agree the draft wouldn't be the same without him.

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

BTW, I dig your stage name. Been an admirer of it for a few years.  

Thanks for the love! 

[BlueShoe]

2 hours ago, JoeThornburg said:

I get it again, and personally I don't care who has the Anna Nicole or Pam Anderson issues of Playboy stashed under their bed. I'm paraphrasing here but I think we all know what I am referring to. 

 

Point blank period, draft pundits and teams overvalue QBs in this day and age. They over draft and they over pay for them, and to date it has not proven to be a winning formula. This deal definitely does have high potential for upside. But at the same time lets consider how much weight people place on potential franchise destroying over commitment to the QB position. Look at the smoldering pile of trash that is the Pittsburgh Steelers right now. All because of one thing, they decided it would be better to allow a QB to eat over $40M in cap hit than to resign players that are still ascending. That was a great defense last year. Done, gone. Gotta have a marquee QB right? Forget about the rest of the team. Kiper even said it himself about the pieces that weren't in place in Philly last season. So he's inherently contradicting himself with this statement to be nice about it. We can insert Mahomes here as proof that I am wrong and neglect to mention some rando named Tom Brady.

 

The bottom line here is that Philadelphia is a complete and total dumpster fire all the way around and they have way more issues to worry about right now than their QB situation. Their head coach was proven to be incompetent, as has much of the Andy Reid coaching tree. Let's also talk about why Bieniemy didn't get a head coaching gig this year and plug in the straw man that it's about race while we are at it, instead of looking at cold hard facts.

 

This was a smart move by the Colts. I will not argue that point one bit. But was it a truly dumb move by Philly given everything that is wrong with that team right now, coming from a guy who has 4 QBs coming off the board and 5 coming off the board by 15 just because they happen to play the QB position regardless of talent or question marks? You really think Mac Jones is worth a #15 pick? Johnny Manziel anyone? He never trailed in a single game he played in. Playing behind a loaded roster against high school grade talent. Let's get real here. Unfortunately we are in the age of analytics ad ridiculum.

 

The only other thing I will say here, is that Tom Brady had none... repeat none of the traits "we" look at or measure, simply because nobody opened up his chest and looked at what was burning in his guts.

 

#heartofachampion

Wow. That’s an interesting post and a lot to digest. Some good conversations in there, but I will hit on a few things that stick out to me the most. 
 

Let’s start with Mac Jones. He is actually kind of growing on me, but I will admit that I’m a little Leary of my initial gut feeling. And maybe I was a little harsh at first... I don’t really trust Alabama QBs to do well in the NFL. They have so much talent around them that they’re hard to really scout. That said, he has some tools to work with. I don’t think he is as athletic as some think he is, but I think he might have some intangibles (similar to Brady). That’s why I believe the Patriots are going to draft him, even if they have to move up. I think we could also be surprised, and he might get taken earlier than we expect, and maybe in front of 1 or 2 of the consensus top 4. I don’t see him getting past 15 though. However, anything can happen. 
 

As far as Philly, I think Richard Sherman described it very well. That market is unique. I think Philly fans are going to look back on the Wentz era and know they messed up. The expectations were too high every year and it’s impossible to reach the Super Bowl every year. They’ll likely wish for what they once had and realize they should have expected some lean years. Philly fans tend to base everything on emotion, and logic can sometimes go straight out the window. If I were a player, coach, or front office personnel, Philly would be my last choice. 
 

As to QBs getting taken earlier in the modern draft; I believe it is warranted. College QBs are more prepared now than ever before. The NFL has also put an emphasis on running some college offenses (spreading things out and more shotgun). Offensive Coordinators have also learned to work within a QBs skill set, instead of trying to force a QB into an offensive philosophy. That’s why we have seen rookie QBs be more successful early in their careers, and that along with need has caused QBs to get pushed up the draft boards. 
 

Interesting post. Thanks for sharing your opinions.  

[Fluke_33]

3 hours ago, JoeThornburg said:

personally I don't care who has the Anna Nicole or Pam Anderson issues of Playboy stashed under their bed. I'm paraphrasing here but I think we all know what I am referring to. 

[EastStreet]

I'm still waiting on Kiper to keep his promise and retire. He's 3 years overdue.

 

 

 

and bonus, Kiper talking about why Luck would be better off in Washington because Indy is such a mess.....

 

 

[MCurtis32]

On 3/24/2021 at 4:55 PM, NewColtsFan said:

I know what I said.   But, that’s not what I meant.  Poor choice of words by me.   I own it.

 

By “you”, I meant any poster here who was reading my words.   I’ll try to pick my words better the next time.  My bad. 

Don't say your sorry for something you wrote when the intention was clear for everyone else that was reading it. Maybe some folks need to grow thicker skin and quit relishing being a victim.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Of course getting Wentz was a great deal. In fact, from the position the colts were in, it was nothing short of a Godsend. 

Rivers retired or was not welcomed back. Eason, a 4th round pick who has never taken a NFL snap was the only signed QB on roster. And no one really wanted Brissett back. 

Picking too high @21 to get or move up to get a franchise prospect. 

Stafford's price was steep and is in his latter part of career, etc...

The Colts were stuck between a Rock and a Hard place......

 

.....Then comes a Huge Dumpster Fire from Eagles and a youngish, elite QB from just a couple years ago is available and wants to join his former OC who happens to be the Colts HC !!!

 

It truly was a Godsend for the Colts, considering the position Ballard was in, even if Wentz play is only average.