Matthew Stafford (merge)

[Fluke_33]

If it is a pick and a player to trade to Detroit who do you think would be enticing for Detroit?  Every time I see someone say they would offer a player it is clearly a player they don’t value or who hasn’t performed up to expectations like rys.  But don’t you think Detroit is going to want a player that exceeds expectations?   Who would be a good fit for them that you could live with losing?  What if they demanded Nelson but would kick back a 2nd rounder or something? 
 

I don’t know where my comfort lies on giving away someone.  I’d hate it to be Taylor or Pittman or Nelson or Leonard but those are our real assets.  Idk but to get something of value you usually have to give something of value.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Orioles22 said:

I'd guess Ballard knew he wasn't drafting a quarterback in the first round by then.

Not the perfect situation if the rookie won't be the answer. Maybe Eason will. Glad we didn't waste a first-round pick on Love instead of trading for Buckner.

Just because a rookie needs a year to learn before starting doesn’t mean they aren’t the answer.  It took josh Allen a year before he was really ready. He has improved every year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Fluke_33 said:

If it is a pick and a player to trade to Detroit who do you think would be enticing for Detroit?  Every time I see someone say they would offer a player it is clearly a player they don’t value or who hasn’t performed up to expectations like rys.  But don’t you think Detroit is going to want a player that exceeds expectations?   Who would be a good fit for them that you could live with losing?  What if they demanded Nelson but would kick back a 2nd rounder or something? 
 

I don’t know where my comfort lies on giving away someone.  I’d hate it to be Taylor or Pittman or Nelson or Leonard but those are our real assets.  Idk but to get something of value you usually have to give something of value.  

Okereke or Lewis.

[Orioles22]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Just because a rookie needs a year to learn before starting doesn’t mean they aren’t the answer.  It took josh Allen a year before he was really ready. He has improved every year.

You still riding the Love train then? I'm glad we didn't go there. Just because you draft one in the first round doesn't mean it always works either.

3 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

If it is a pick and a player to trade to Detroit who do you think would be enticing for Detroit?  Every time I see someone say they would offer a player it is clearly a player they don’t value or who hasn’t performed up to expectations like rys.  But don’t you think Detroit is going to want a player that exceeds expectations?   Who would be a good fit for them that you could live with losing?  What if they demanded Nelson but would kick back a 2nd rounder or something? 
 

I don’t know where my comfort lies on giving away someone.  I’d hate it to be Taylor or Pittman or Nelson or Leonard but those are our real assets.  Idk but to get something of value you usually have to give something of value.  

Maybe Hines or Ya-Sin or both.

[TimetobringDfence!]

If Detriot is expecting too much, and a trade for Stafford doesn't fall through. I like the idea of acquiring Marcus Mariota.

[stitches]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

Noisiest reporting right now says Colts like Stafford and Fields. 

 

So would you rather give up a 2021 first for Stafford, or trade up and use the 2021 first and 2022 first (most likely) for Fields?

2021, 2022 1sts + for Fields... and it will be a steal if we can actually pull that off... 

[Fluke_33]

Just now, Orioles22 said:

You still riding the Love train then? I'm glad we didn't go there. Just because you draft one in the first round doesn't mean it always works either.

Maybe Hines or Ya-Sin or both.

Hines is a high value.  I was thinking that too.  It would hurt but it may be worth it

[Fluke_33]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Okereke or Lewis.

I don’t know if either has much value. Especially to other teams.  I think both are worth maybe a 5th round pick.  

[Orioles22]

I think Okereke is our second best linebacker - more like a third rounder, I'd guess.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Hines is a high value.  I was thinking that too.  It would hurt but it may be worth it

That would be so sad. But he has become a great runner and we have no backup. He really is a playmaker and game changer.

 

Lions do need LB help. Could resign walker and send Okereke there I think without missing  too much.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

If Detriot is expecting too much, and a trade for Stafford doesn't fall through. I like the idea of acquiring Marcus Mariota.

One of the big knocks on him was titans didn’t build a offense  around his strengths. They tried to turn him into something he isn’t.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

One of the big knocks on him was titans didn’t build a offense  around his strengths. They tried to turn him into something he isn’t.

And his injuries 

[holeymoley99]

I like Okereke not including him in any trade talks, Lewis i would part with though he finally progressed this season

[Four2itus]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We can’t keep kicking the can down the road. It just wastes time.

Trying to help here....but although a fan like yourself might think that a SB is the only thing to shoot for, it is actually secondary to competing and putting butts in the seats every Sunday. 

 

I've said this some many times it's beyond recounting(in different ways).....I would rather my team be highly competitive for 20 years and never win a SB, than I would have my team be competitive for 5 years, win 1 SB, and suck for 15 years. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

I think my offer would be #21, 2022 3rd and Banogu

 

Would make 2022 3rd a conditional 2nd if we reach AFC championship game or something, if they don't want Banogu.

I would go #21, 2021 4th,  2022 2nd.   That should make them happy.  

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I would go #21, 2021 4th,  2022 2nd.   That should make them happy.  

I think that is what I had on my Stafford mock.

 

I think it was 2022 3rd that could turn into 2nd.

[poilucelt]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yesterday I was reading how Wilson seems to be a run first QB. Instead of a pocket first. Seems maybe more Lamar then Allen. IDK but not sure I like that. Ballard is tight. A QB needs to be pocket first with the ability to run and extend plays.

Wilson? Don't think so, he aired it out at BYU--actually had in some ways better 2020 passing stats than either Lawrence or Fields--IIRC, completion % on 2nd and 3rd reads, which really translates to the NFL. As does his ability to throw off-platform and outside of structure. But he certainly can run if needed, much like Josh Allen.

 

He's still pretty thin (listed at 210 lbs I think) and in any event will be long gone by almost any spot the Colts could trade up for without mortgaging the club's immediate future 

[stitches]

 

5 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

Is it though?  I feel like the whole idea that the Colts are "ready" stems from the owner's eternal optimism..... 

 

Yeah were solid..... At all the complimentary areas a SB contender needs.... Non rush Lber, DT, interior OL.... Nickel corner, STs..... But have zero answers and only cap space and late in round picks to address ALL of the most important positions....#1(and really#2) CB, Pass rush, really need two with Houston a FA, LT, WR 1 or 2, and QB......

 

I don't see the "window" others see..... What, are we really worried about wasting the prime of an off ball LBer and an OG?

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, I think the level of "readiness" is being a little overblown. I do think we're close, but besides QB, we need some other critical positions to really make a go at it. Trading for Stafford still leaves us with enough resources to improve the roster, and probably be tops in the division, but I don't know if that's quite good enough.

The biggest problem is that it's not just Irsay that seems to think we are ready or close to competing. Ballard said something to that effect too. There seem to be belief in the organization as a whole that we are on the verge of breaking through. 

 

The more I review our situation the more I feel like this is a false hope and it's more likely we take a step back next season rather than step forward(even if we get Stafford). All our best pass-defenders(EDGE and CB) are getting old and/or are FAs and might leave(Rhodes, Houston, Autry, Muhammad. Our franchise LT just retired. Our best receiver is getting old and might leave. We have SEVERE needs at the most important positions in football and we don't have the resources to address them. Like... I disagree with Superman that we have the resources to improve the roster. We cannot come even close to addressing all those holes. At least not with high level performers. Those are not just the most important positions for winning... they are also the most expensive positions to address with quality players. QBs, LT, DE, CB, WR... ALL OF THEM cost money or draft or high picks... and we want to give both money AND high draft picks for Stafford. Sure we can patch it up with some bargain deals, but I'm not sure bargain dealing with the most important positions is the recipe for improvement for next season. Those misses in the second on CBs and DEs have finally caught up with us and hit this roster. You cannot miss on 4 DEs, 2 CBs on day 2 picks and a S with day 1 pick and expect to be in a great position at those spots. 

 

I personally would rather take a step back intentionally and with the thought and investment for the future, rather than break the bank on a win-now plan that I don't think is very likely to succeed having in mind just how many holes we have on this roster. 

[poilucelt]

On 1/29/2021 at 7:19 AM, Mackrel829 said:

Stafford for #21 and maybe another pick up to a 3rd next year would be my ideal scenario. Anything more than that and I like it less.

 

If we can't get Stafford, I think I'd rather just draft a LT and an edge rusher, roll with Eason, and re-evaluate next off-season. If Eason is bad, we'll be closer to the top of the draft to get one of the top prospects, all of which are out of range this year.

 

[poilucelt]

On 1/29/2021 at 7:19 AM, Mackrel829 said:

Stafford for #21 and maybe another pick up to a 3rd next year would be my ideal scenario. Anything more than that and I like it less.

 

If we can't get Stafford, I think I'd rather just draft a LT and an edge rusher, roll with Eason, and re-evaluate next off-season. If Eason is bad, we'll be closer to the top of the draft to get one of the top prospects, all of which are out of range this year.

mine would be the other way around: 3rd this year (maybe even a 2nd instead) and next year's 1st

 

seriously doubt if Detroit would go for that, even if you added in a player or two (Banogu? Ya-Sin? not sure either has much trade value at this point)

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yesterday I was reading how Wilson seems to be a run first QB. Instead of a pocket first. Seems maybe more Lamar then Allen. IDK but not sure I like that. Ballard is tight. A QB needs to be pocket first with the ability to run and extend plays.

That's not true. You can probably say that for Lance, but Wilson is NOT a run-first QB. He can run, but he's not run first. He's a pocket QB with mobility. Very similar to the new age QB - Mahomes, Luck, Wentz... this type. 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

 

That's a good chart, basically his worst full season coincided with the Lions best defensive season. I'd rather not use QBR as it's subjective and closed-door, but PFF grades Stafford low in 2014 also. 

[danlhart87]

If Lions want too much just walk away 

[Myles]

3 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Why he hasn't done nothing 

Neither has Eason.  If Ballard is in the Stafford hunt, it means he doesn't have faith in Eason.

I'm fine if Ballard and Reich make Eason the stArter.  But if they are going to bring in another QB, I hope it is Stafford.

[poilucelt]

14 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

The biggest problem is that it's not just Irsay that seems to think we are ready or close to competing. Ballard said something to that effect too. There seem to be belief in the organization as a whole that we are on the verge of breaking through. 

 

The more I review our situation the more I feel like this is a false hope and it's more likely we take a step back next season rather than step forward(even if we get Stafford). All our best pass-defenders(EDGE and CB) are getting old and/or are FAs and might leave(Rhodes, Houston, Autry, Muhammad. Our franchise LT just retired. Our best receiver is getting old and might leave. We have SEVERE needs at the most important positions in football and we don't have the resources to address them. Like... I disagree with Superman that we have the resources to improve the roster. We cannot come even close to addressing all those holes. At least not with high level performers. Those are not just the most important positions for winning... they are also the most expensive positions to address with quality players. QBs, LT, DE, CB, WR... ALL OF THEM cost money or draft or high picks... and we want to give both money AND high draft picks for Stafford. Sure we can patch it up with some bargain deals, but I'm not sure bargain dealing with the most important positions is the recipe for improvement for next season. Those misses in the second on CBs and DEs have finally caught up with us and hit this roster. You cannot miss on 4 DEs, 2 CBs on day 2 picks and a S with day 1 pick and expect to be in a great position at those spots. 

 

I personally would rather take a step back intentionally and with the thought and investment for the future, rather than break the bank on a win-now plan that I don't think is very likely to succeed having in mind just how many holes we have on this roster. 

whatever else anyone feels re: "win now" or "not yet" I think the equation changed when BOTH Castonzo and Rivers retired

 

factor in the relative lack of progress of some of Ballard's picks, and to me it looks like the club may not be quite as close to the Super Bowl as the owner thinks

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[stitches]

Just now, poilucelt said:

whatever else anyone feels re: "win now" or "not yet" I think the equation changed when BOTH Castonzo and Rivers retired

 

factor in the relative lack of progress of some of Ballard's picks, and to me it looks like the club may not be quite as close to the Super Bowl as the owner thinks

Agree. When both AC and Rivers retired it very pushed the whole calculation over the edge. Those are not easy or cheap positions to take care of. You pretty much have to invest 1st rounder(or huge money in FA) on a LT to feel any sort of optimism that you've addressed the position. Similar with QB... similar with DE and we need 2 of them. CB in this scheme is probably debatable and we can patch it up with a bit less resources... but still... you need playable players there too... TE is not set, WR is not set, Our MIKE might be leaving... at least we have playable players there IMO so... not too worried about Walker ... walking... 

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, stitches said:

The biggest problem is that it's not just Irsay that seems to think we are ready or close to competing. Ballard said something to that effect too. There seem to be belief in the organization as a whole that we are on the verge of breaking through. 

 

The more I review our situation the more I feel like this is a false hope and it's more likely we take a step back next season rather than step forward(even if we get Stafford). All our best pass-defenders(EDGE and CB) are getting old and/or are FAs and might leave(Rhodes, Houston, Autry, Muhammad. Our franchise LT just retired. Our best receiver is getting old and might leave. We have SEVERE needs at the most important positions in football and we don't have the resources to address them. Like... I disagree with Superman that we have the resources to improve the roster. We cannot come even close to addressing all those holes. At least not with high level performers. Those are not just the most important positions for winning... they are also the most expensive positions to address with quality players. QBs, LT, DE, CB, WR... ALL OF THEM cost money or draft or high picks... and we want to give both money AND high draft picks for Stafford. Sure we can patch it up with some bargain deals, but I'm not sure bargain dealing with the most important positions is the recipe for improvement for next season. Those misses in the second on CBs and DEs have finally caught up with us and hit this roster. You cannot miss on 4 DEs, 2 CBs on day 2 picks and a S with day 1 pick and expect to be in a great position at those spots. 

 

I personally would rather take a step back intentionally and with the thought and investment for the future, rather than break the bank on a win-now plan that I don't think is very likely to succeed having in mind just how many holes we have on this roster. 

 

1) What would it realistically take to get Fields?

 

2) Let's play this out. Trade for Stafford, let's say 2021 first + 2022 second. So cross off QB. And let's assume that Pittman and Hilton produce well and make plays in 2021, so cross off WR as a high level need.

 

How much does it take to address LT, DE and CB to a great enough degree that you think we would be able to "break through" in 2021 or 2022? 

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

What a great vote of confidence for Jimmy.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I just hope we don’t have to go into next season with a bandaid. I am ok with eason or a rookie and will understand a slight step backwards. I just don’t want to have to suffer with a mediocre vet and a step back. At least starting Eason or a rookie it’s a step forward. Gets a young guy a year of playing experience and development. 

[w87r]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

1) What would it realistically take to get Fields?

 

2) Let's play this out. Trade for Stafford, let's say 2021 first + 2022 second. So cross off QB. And let's assume that Pittman and Hilton produce well and make plays in 2021, so cross off WR as a high level need.

 

How much does it take to address LT, DE and CB to a great enough degree that you think we would be able to "break through" in 2021 or 2022? 

I think if we get Stafford, the need to upgrade LT by FA is higher. I would make an all out effort to sign Williams.

 

I know between the 2 that would take up $35-$40m leaving us with $25-$30m to fill out roster. Having the ability to clear another $11m by by releasing/trading Doyle($4.35m savings), restructuring Kelly($6.75m savings).

 

 

Another name at LT that has came out in last day or so is Orlando Brown Jr. He tweeted he is a LT and Ravens just paid Stanley a lot of money. Brown is on last year of rookie deal and Ravens will not be able to pay him LT money(which he is positioning himself for). So might hit the trade block.

 

Could be an intriguing add. Cheap this year as well.

 

 

Back to Stafford and Williams though, I think we have to go all in.

 

Williams, Nelson, Kelly, Glow, Smith = best line hands down in NFL.

 

 

Still would have 2nd-7th round to add our other needs.

 

??IDK?

 

Just ready to see the Stafford situation play out 1 way or the other.

 

 

Edit: I think to move up and get Fields it would at least cost (2) 1st a 3rd and maybe an additional pick.

 

Edit x2: I would seriouslt5 hit up NO and offer our 2nd for Lattimore. He will be playing elsewhere next year. They cant afford him. So that would be another $10m from cap space, but another great addition.

 

Resign Houston and Autry if money makes sense.

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

1) What would it realistically take to get Fields?

 

2) Let's play this out. Trade for Stafford, let's say 2021 first + 2022 second. So cross off QB. And let's assume that Pittman and Hilton produce well and make plays in 2021, so cross off WR as a high level need.

 

How much does it take to address LT, DE and CB to a great enough degree that you think we would be able to "break through" in 2021 or 2022? 

I'm not too worried about WRs.  Campbell will be back and Pittman will be better.  Taylor and Hines have been under-utilised catching passes, IMO

[stitches]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

1) What would it realistically take to get Fields?

I don't know and I don't know if this is the one they like. IMO the price very well might be prohibitive. We might need to trade up to #2-#3 to get him. This is at the very least an additional 1st and probably a couple of day 2 picks. It might involve trading some of our players too. (For example, both Buffalo and Philadelphia traded players to get to the 8-12 range before they made the final jump to get their QBs in Allen and Wentz). It's possible the price is something like:

- #21+(Bobby Okereke+Rock) to get to around no.10 + 2022 1st to get to #3. or

- #21 + 2022 1st, 2021 3d, 2023 2nd or something of the sort. 

 

Quote

 

2) Let's play this out. Trade for Stafford, let's say 2021 first + 2022 second. So cross off QB. And let's assume that Pittman and Hilton produce well and make plays in 2021, so cross off WR as a high level need.

I will cross them off but TY will cost money. 

Quote

How much does it take to address LT, DE and CB to a great enough degree that you think we would be able to "break through" in 2021 or 2022? 

LT takes a 1st rounder or 15M+ IMO. DE takes a 1st rounder or 17M+... the second DE can be bargain one... lets say 8M(Autry type), CB ... no idea... if we want to be SURE... we need Rhodes back(10M+?) + one more lets say he's a bargain too... 5M. or another 2nd rounder who we have no idea if he will be able to play... 

We don't have the 1st rounders so... do all calculations with the money and we are out of money at the DE position(If you are getting TY he costs money too).

 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, w87r said:

I think if we get Stafford, the need to upgrade LT by FA is higher.

 

Why? Compared to what? I think a veteran QB would be better equipped to handle average blind side protection than a less experienced QB.

[poilucelt]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

1) What would it realistically take to get Fields?

 

2) Let's play this out. Trade for Stafford, let's say 2021 first + 2022 second. So cross off QB. And let's assume that Pittman and Hilton produce well and make plays in 2021, so cross off WR as a high level need.

 

How much does it take to address LT, DE and CB to a great enough degree that you think we would be able to "break through" in 2021 or 2022? 

it's also not just a function of what positional needs there are, it's also what's available, both in the draft and in FA

 

e.g., you might consider getting another WR to be pretty important BUT also feel confident there are enough out there between the draft and free agency that you don't have to treat it as a top priority and can do it more cheaply later on

 

same for tackle: if you feel pretty good about either signing a UFA like Villanueva, Robinson, etc., or that you can still find a promising tackle prospect in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft, maybe you don't have to use #21 on that and can use the pick instead for one of the freak-athlete edge guys like Basham or Oweh or Ojulari if one of them's still there at #21

[#12.]

I thought JMV said Fields was the only QB they liked after Lawrence, meaning they're not interested in any QB they would have a reasonable shot at.  How high would you have to go to guarantee you could land Fields?  Even if you try to play that game, you could wait until the draft and come away with nothing. 

 

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Why? Compared to what? I think a veteran QB would be better equipped to handle average blind side protection than a less experienced QB.

More so, just because getting Stafford means we are going all out. Try and take advantage of this couple year expanded window.

 

More a mentality thing.

 

 a LT in round 2? Maybe? 

 

Cheaper FA? Cam Robinson, Russel Okung? Ehh.

 

Trade a round 2 for Armstead or Ramczyk from NO? They would cost us around $11m.

 

Maybe a 3rd rounder for Orlando Brown.

 

I dont know I just really like the though of adding Trent Williams to the line. Being a little greedy.

 

Lattimore is looking intriguing as well. Would do wonders for our secondary.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Why? Compared to what? I think a veteran QB would be better equipped to handle average blind side protection than a less experienced QB.

We always have Nelson as a ace in the hole too.

[Smoke317]

17 minutes ago, stitches said:

I don't know and I don't know if this is the one they like. IMO the price very well might be prohibitive. We might need to trade up to #2-#3 to get him. This is at the very least an additional 1st and probably a couple of day 2 picks. It might involve trading some of our players too. (For example, both Buffalo and Philadelphia traded players to get to the 8-12 range before they made the final jump to get their QBs in Allen and Wentz). It's possible the price is something like:

- #21+(Bobby Okereke+Rock) to get to around no.10 + 2022 1st to get to #3. or

- #21 + 2022 1st, 2021 3d, 2023 2nd or something of the sort. 

 

I will cross them off but TY will cost money. 

LT takes a 1st rounder or 15M+ IMO. DE takes a 1st rounder or 17M+... the second DE can be bargain one... lets say 8M(Autry type), CB ... no idea... if we want to be SURE... we need Rhodes back(10M+?) + one more lets say he's a bargain too... 5M. or another 2nd rounder who we have no idea if he will be able to play... 

We don't have the 1st rounders so... do all calculations with the money and we are out of money at the DE position(If you are getting TY he costs money too).

 

I like your breakdown. How about this scenario?  We trade #21 + 2 of the 3 (Okereke, Rock, or Eason) & a future 2nd or 3rd to get #6 (Eagles) & Hurts. From there we trade #6 & Hurts plus a future 2nd to move up to #2 or #3 (Jets or Dolphins) ahead of the Falcons to take Fields or Wilson.  Does that sound plausible at all?

[Iron Colt]

Cheapie Cheapskate and Handsome Jack are both saying the Colts have a great plan at qb and that colts fans are going to be thrilled with the end result.