Matthew Stafford (merge)

[Orioles22]

12 hours ago, Thunderbolt said:

If we can't get Stafford, let's roll with Eason if he does well in pre-season over the QB we draft..

If we're rolling with Eason, I don't think we'll draft another one. I don't see us rolling with Eason or drafting a quarterback though.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, Orioles22 said:

If we're rolling with Eason, I don't think we'll draft another one. I don't see us rolling with Eason or drafting a quarterback though.

Who do you think is QB

[poilucelt]

2 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

Who do you think is QB

"is QB?" probably 

[Mackrel829]

11 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Agree 100% with this

 

My list in Order

1- Stafford

2 -Winston

3 - Wentz

4 - Darnold

5 - Garapolo

6 - Dalton

 

IMHO relying on Eason is sort of like driving to Ohio from Texas with 4 bald tires.  You MIGHT make it, but why would you try??

 

 EAson may end up being awesome, but its too early to toss him out there....  Darnold, Garapolo or Dalton could play at a higher level than Brissett.

 

 

 

I don't see any QB other than Stafford being good enough to take us to the Superbowl. If that's the case, I'd much prefer to throw an u known out there and just see what happens.

 

We all know that we'd achieve nothing with Dalton next season with Dalton as the starter. We'd win 7 or 8 games, not make the playoffs, and be picking in the middle of the draft again next off-season. This gets us nowhere.

 

With Eason, there's a boom or bust element, but both boom and bust are better than what Dalton or someone similar offers. If he booms, he has higher upside than those guys. If he busts, we pick in the top 10 and can easily move on.

 

'You might make it, but why would you try?' - I'd try because I know I'm definitely not making it with Dalton.

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

 

I don't see any QB other than Stafford being good enough to take us to the Superbowl. If that's the case, I'd much prefer to throw an u known out there and just see what happens.

 

We all know that we'd achieve nothing with Dalton next season with Dalton as the starter. We'd win 7 or 8 games, not make the playoffs, and be picking in the middle of the draft again next off-season. This gets us nowhere.

 

With Eason, there's a boom or bust element, but both boom and bust are better than what Dalton or someone similar offers. If he booms, he has higher upside than those guys. If he busts, we pick in the top 10 and can easily move on.

 

'You might make it, but why would you try?' - I'd try because I know I'm definitely not making it with Dalton.

Ultimately you may end up being right.

 

I agree that Stafford would appear to be the best QB that might be in reach for the Colts.

 

Right know we have Eason under contract, that is it.

 

He didnt get a camp last year. 

 

In almost all levels he is a Rookie THIS year

 

IF Stafford goes elsewhere,

I would rather have Eason AND someone like Jamies Winston , or even a Sam Darnold, compete for the starting spot

 

In these cases, we arent going to a super bowl....... But...... in these instances we would have TWO possible development

QBs and the best might come to the top

 

 

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

A dead cap hit of 40 million.   No way they can trade him

He could sign a new contract.  One that pays him just as much this year but counts less to ATL.  The new team won't eat all of his current cap hit, ATL would have to eat some, but not $40 mill.  Something more palatable.  Depends upon who ATL drafts and what compensation they would get along with whatever cap hit they could afford.   It can be done.

[#12.]

15 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Agree 100% with this

 

My list in Order

1- Stafford

2 -Winston

3 - Wentz

4 - Darnold

5 - Garapolo

6 - Dalton

 

 

Yeah, Siriani was non-committal on Wentz, so that might be in play along with some other options people aren't talking much about.

 

Could you imagine if you took a shot on Darnold and it worked?  You get a haul for the pick and then turn around and get the QB for next-to-nothing a few years later?  The guy is only 23.   

[Mackrel829]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Ultimately you may end up being right.

 

I agree that Stafford would appear to be the best QB that might be in reach for the Colts.

 

Right know we have Eason under contract, that is it.

 

He didnt get a camp last year. 

 

In almost all levels he is a Rookie THIS year

 

IF Stafford goes elsewhere,

I would rather have Eason AND someone like Jamies Winston , or even a Sam Darnold, compete for the starting spot

 

In these cases, we arent going to a super bowl....... But...... in these instances we would have TWO possible development

QBs and the best might come to the top

 

 

 

I wouldn't hate Winston. He also has that same boom or bust potential. He's always been incredibly talented but made awful decisions. I could see a reality in which Reich's offense minimised the amount of terrible decisions Winston has the opportunity to make, and in which he succeeds. I think Winston could take this team to the playoffs.

 

Darnold I'm less sure about but, as you say, having both Eason and Darnold available and seeing who plays the best wouldn't be the worst situation imaginable. I'd much rather that than Dalton or Brissett.

 

[DougDew]

Arthur Blank, owner of ATL, basically has said that the only safe players are Grady Jackson, Deon Jones, and WR Riley Ridley.  Alex Mack is set to be cut or retire, with his cap rolling off.  They already got rid of Tak McKinley and Vic Beasely.

 

Ryan could rip up his contract and sign a new one upon trade that would pay him $40M in CASH in 2021.  $23M cap hit to the Colts and $17M to ATL (not sure how it could be written, roster bonus? maybe it couldn't).  Then the remaining two years are simple salary of $23M each on the Colts.  Certainly Ryan wouldn't mind a contract that pays him $86M in CASH over the next three years?  ATL would have a manageable $17M dead cap hit to deal with in a rebuilding year, and Fields on the roster.  

 

They want Tyquan Lewis and RYS  (or maybe Willis or Okerke, or a lesser player) to help them rebuild, but NO draft picks.  Yeah, I would do that for Ryan.  And ATL would do that to have Fields and a couple of young players on cheaper deals.

[coming on strong]

EAson is the guy i want to start no doubt about it . Elite arm talent and comes very cheap and had a year to work on his foot work which is his biggest flaw moving in the pocket .  Without a big salary spent on QB colts can go fill out the roster much better now that AC 17 million is off the books . colts should have 80 million and free up even more the next year .  Colts need to get younger at defensive end and corner and add a elite wr and tightend .  with two new pass rushers like dupree and a elite corner and wr colts could carry eason . I bet eason would put up better numbers then rivers and stretch the field better .

[holeymoley99]

Andrew Luck, 2 seasons off to heal and family time he desperately wanted. He's young enough to have several good years left. If Colts dont get Stafford and the word is they dont like any rookie but Fields who is out of reach he would be a much better fit then Darnold,Truibisky,Dalton,Garropllo,Winston, Bridgewater.   IF it doesnt happen now it never will, this is final window realistically for it to occur.

[MikeCurtis]

48 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Arthur Blank, owner of ATL, basically has said that the only safe players are Grady Jackson, Deon Jones, and WR Riley Ridley.  Alex Mack is set to be cut or retire, with his cap rolling off.  They already got rid of Tak McKinley and Vic Beasely.

 

Ryan could rip up his contract and sign a new one upon trade that would pay him $40M in CASH in 2021.  $23M cap hit to the Colts and $17M to ATL (not sure how it could be written, roster bonus? maybe it couldn't).  Then the remaining two years are simple salary of $23M each on the Colts.  Certainly Ryan wouldn't mind a contract that pays him $86M in CASH over the next three years?  ATL would have a manageable $17M dead cap hit to deal with in a rebuilding year, and Fields on the roster.  

 

They want Tyquan Lewis and RYS  (or maybe Willis or Okerke, or a lesser player) to help them rebuild, but NO draft picks.  Yeah, I would do that for Ryan.  And ATL would do that to have Fields and a couple of young players on cheaper deals.

Matt Ryan is 36 in a few months

 

He would be better than the middle of the pack, but he is under contract 

 

He DID throw for 4500 ish yards last year, so he still has some skills

 

He is a 2-3 year player vs Stafford 5-6 year player

 

Atlanta has gone sour with talent around him

 

Maybe he would be another option to consider....

 

I am not a capologist but his base is 23M with a cap hit close to 40M for Atlanta

 

If we traded for him, what is OUR cap hit?

 

$40 M??  Es No Bueno

 

$ 23M - He gets MUCH more attractive

 

Anybody know how that works?

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Matt Ryan is 36 in a few months

 

He would be better than the middle of the pack, but he is under contract 

 

He DID throw for 4500 ish yards last year, so he still has some skills

 

He is a 2-3 year player vs Stafford 5-6 year player

 

Atlanta has gone sour with talent around him

 

Maybe he would be another option to consider....

Ryan is the perfect age for transitioning to Eason.  That's why I think Ryan makes some sense.

 

I think he is better than Rivers.  And with his contract and ATLs desire to move on, it might not cost much capital, if any.

 

Theoretically, we could have our SB QB and our QB of the future on the roster in about two months, and it would not cost any significant draft picks from here on out.

[MikeCurtis]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Ryan is the perfect age for transitioning to Eason.  That's why I think Ryan makes some sense.

 

I think he is better than Rivers.  And with his contract and ATLs desire to move on, it might not cost much capital, if any.

I havent seen anything reported on him being traded, but SURELY at 36 he would cost less than Stafford

 

We have MANY options, so even if Stafford is not signed... there are some other ways to go

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I havent seen anything reported on him being traded, but SURELY at 36 he would cost less than Stafford

 

We have MANY options, so even if Stafford is not signed... there are some other ways to go

With all of the noise, it got lost.  But I'm almost certain that Arthur Blank said that both Julio and Ryan are available.  And pretty much anybody other than the three I mentioned.  That's why I think they will draft Fields.  Riley, Jackson, and Jones is a great core to start with.

 

Edit:  Easier to find than I thought.  

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/arthur-blank-no-players-off-limits-including-matt-ryan-julio-jones

 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

With all of the noise, it got lost.  But I'm almost certain that Arthur Blanc said that both Julio and Ryan are available.  And pretty much anybody other than the three I mentioned.  That's why I think they will draft Fields.  Riley, Jackson, and Jones is a great core to start with.

 

Edit:  Easier to find than I thought.  

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/arthur-blank-no-players-off-limits-including-matt-ryan-julio-jones

 

Ryan's contract (almost 50M in dead cap in 21) makes him almost impossible to move.

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Ryan's contract (almost 50M in dead cap in 21) makes him almost impossible to move.

Been trying to tell him that for over a year

[DougDew]

39 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Ryan's contract (almost 50M in dead cap in 21) makes him almost impossible to move.

He can't tear up the old contract and sign a new one?

 

Restructuring deals to push back cap hit happens all of the time.  Its how teams get under the cap.  ATL simply pushes part of the 49 back to next year, but they don't have to pay the 23M and 27M in salary next year and 2023.  

 

25 mil of the 49 mil is salary that we then assume, and 25 mil is what we're willing to pay a starter.

 

ATLS dead cap hit would go from 49 to 24, and then about 26 next year, which is what it would be next year if they cut him next spring under the current contract.

 

Ryan is going to get paid by ATL under the current contract this way: 23M salary 2021, 16M salary and 8M roster bonus (which he wont see) in 2022, and 20M salary and 8M roster bonus (neither of which he will see) in 2023.

 

We pay him 25, 24, and 23 in simple salary.  He's ahead.  We can guarantee the 2021 23 mil, and half of 2022's 24.  He's ahead in guarantee money too.  That's all CASH to him.

 

Why wouldn't he tear up the current contract and accept a trade?  He'd be getting 23 +12 = 37M in guaranteed money with us, and only 23M in salary for 2021 with ATL because he's going to be cut next spring.

 

[Dcuse]

Other....Dak. Yes the Cowboys probably tag him but hearing rumblings that he is frustrated with the inability to come to an extension agreement and he wants out. How awesome would that be?

[w87r]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

He can't tear up the old contract and sign a new one?

 

Restructuring deals to push back cap hit happens all of the time.  Its how teams get under the cap.  ATL simply pushes part of the 40 back to next year, but they don't have to pay the 23M and 27M in salary next year and 2023.

 

25 mil of the 49 mil is salary that we then assume, and 25 mil is what we're willing to pay a starter.

 

No, I've seen you post this multiple times. Ryan might sign a new contract(not likely as it would be risky of new team going into his 36-38yr old seasons) after he is traded but that will not help Atlanta in the slightest.

 

The Falcons owe him $44.4m against their cap if traded, regardless. Team that trades for him only assumes $5.5m of base which is guaranteed. 

 

 

The best option for the Falcons to trade Ryan is wait till after June 1st and split dead cap over 2 years:

Dead cap with post June 1st trade:

2021 - $17.9m ~ savings of $23m on 2021 cap

2022 - $26.5m

 

This is there best option. If they were to move him, they would be wise to make an arrangement on a deal that would take place after the draft and save them this money in 2021. This would likely require compensation from the Falcons to make this agreement, maybe 2022 (2nd or 3rd and receive a 2022 4th or 5th back).

 

This is the scenario that most likely would have to play out for Goff or Wentz as well if those teams are to trade them and save any kind of cap space in 2021.

[DougDew]

40 minutes ago, w87r said:

No, I've seen you post this multiple times. Ryan might sign a new contract(not likely as it would be risky of new team going into his 36-38yr old seasons) after he is traded but that will not help Atlanta in the slightest.

 

The Falcons owe him $44.4m against their cap if traded, regardless. Team that trades for him only assumes $5.5m of base which is guaranteed. 

 

 

The best option for the Falcons to trade Ryan is wait till after June 1st and split dead cap over 2 years:

Dead cap with post June 1st trade:

2021 - $17.9m ~ savings of $23m on 2021 cap

2022 - $26.5m

 

This is there best option. If they were to move him, they would be wise to make an arrangement on a deal that would take place after the draft and save them this money in 2021. This would likely require compensation from the Falcons to make this agreement, maybe 2022 (2nd or 3rd and receive a 2022 4th or 5th back).

 

This is the scenario that most likely would have to play out for Goff or Wentz as well if those teams are to trade them and save any kind of cap space in 2021.

 

Right now, his 2020 cap hit.....if he stays with ATL,.....is already $40Mil.  He is counting $40mil on ATLs books if they keep him.

 

If he is cut or traded that cap hit goes to 49 mil.  Its called DEAD CAP HIT because the player is no longer there.  But its only 9.3mil MORE than if he stayed.  Its not an EXTRA 49 mil if he's traded.  Its only an extra 9.

 

By trading Ryan, ATL merely takes on 9.3mil of extra cap hit than they would if they keep him,  Can ATL shed enough cap in other areas to make it happen?  Its only for one tough year, then its over.  If they wait, they'll have to deal with the Ryan hit another year.

 

Of the 94.5 mil that was guaranteed , ATL has already paid and accounted for about 92.5 mil of it through 2020.  There is 9.3 mil of signing bonus that is pushed out that would get accelerated into the year he is either cut or traded.....that's the difference noted above; 40 mil cap hit for keeping him another year, 49 mil for trading him now.

 

DEAD cap hit is a problem because you have to pay somebody to play for the guy who isn't there anymore, depending upon how much you care about your W/L record that year..  

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Ryan's contract (almost 50M in dead cap in 21) makes him almost impossible to move.

Scratch Ryan from the possible list

 

It looks like things could be slightly easier if it was a post June 1

 

I SURELY hope that we have a QB strategy in place before then.......

 

It REALLY shows how a major contract like this for an aging star can be a HUGE problem to deal with later

 

The Falcons wrote a "buy now" contract at a low up front cost, and are in the pay later side of the contract

 

Sort of like running up a credit card balance with 0% interest, but 21% payoff

 

Bad for personal expenses, bad for NFL teams

 

Have you noticed that CB doesnt sign contracts like this ? (Even the smaller ones he has done so far)

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 1/29/2021 at 10:42 AM, Thebrashandthebold said:

Someone is going to sign Cam and I look for him to outperform whoever the Colts sign unless it is Watson. I would not be surprised to see Cam wind up in Washington.

 

 

Cam has the potential to return to previous form, especially if healthy, a preseason, and full training camp AND of course a good team & coach around him. All QB's can use that.

But Cam's floor is capable of being bad. Which is why whoever signs him will probably do so as a backup with a proven QB as #1 or at least one to battle with. Also if a backup, Cam can have a package of plays to run.

 

The Colts, or any other team, can't put all their eggs in Cam's basket. 

[w87r]

22 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Right now, his 2020 cap hit.....if he stays with ATL,.....is already $40Mil.  He is counting $40mil on ATLs books if they keep him.

 

If he is cut or traded that cap hit goes to 49 mil.  Its called DEAD CAP HIT because the player is no longer there.  But its only 9.3mil MORE because that's the portion of the original 94.5mil in guaranteed money that hasn't been accounted for.

 

By trading Ryan, ATL merely takes on 9.3mil of extra cap hit than they would if they keep him.  

 

IOW, of the 94.5 mil that was guaranteed , ATL has already paid about 92.5 mil of it.  There is 9.3 mil of signing bonus that is pushed out that would get accelerated into the year he is either cut or traded.....that's the difference noted above. 40 mil for keeping, 49 mil for trading.

I'm well aware of the cap, thanks.

 

It's $44.4m dead cap if he is traded before/after June 1st(can be divided over 2 yrs if after). Not $49.9m, it is $49.9m dead cap if he was to be released.

 

And you are wrong on the $9m difference as well. Restructure bonus gets pushed out as well as option bonus. It is not the SB for 2022. The $49.9m is just everything tallied up has nothing to do with that $40.9m 2021 cap hit. Except that they still owe more money against the cap(most already paid out) than he makes this year

 

$40,912,500 cap hit + $9.3m roster bonus equals $50,212,000

 

Dead Cap if released:$49,927,500:

$9.3m(SB) × 2 = $18.6m

$2.9m(OB) ×3 = $6m

$6,612,500(ResB) × 3 = $19,837,500

$5.5m 2021 base(guar portion) = $5.5m

 

$5.5m could go to team trading for Ryan, making the dead cap $44,457,500.

 

Fact doesn't change that Ryan just cant rip up his contract and the Falcons not still be responsible for those future cap hits, salary cap wise(that the have already paid out.) Its not poof and that $49m/$44m is gone off their cap.

 

As I mentioned their only option if they are to move on from him would be a post June 1st trade. Saving them $23m in cap this year but putting $26m dead cap onto 2022 cap.

[jvan1973]

38 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Right now, his 2020 cap hit.....if he stays with ATL,.....is already $40Mil.  He is counting $40mil on ATLs books if they keep him.

 

If he is cut or traded that cap hit goes to 49 mil.  Its called DEAD CAP HIT because the player is no longer there.  But its only 9.3mil MORE than if he stayed.  Its not an EXTRA 49 mil if he's traded.  Its only an extra 9.

 

By trading Ryan, ATL merely takes on 9.3mil of extra cap hit than they would if they keep him,  Can ATL shed enough cap in other areas to make it happen?  Its only for one tough year, then its over.  If they wait, they'll have to deal with the Ryan hit another year.

 

Of the 94.5 mil that was guaranteed , ATL has already paid and accounted for about 92.5 mil of it through 2020.  There is 9.3 mil of signing bonus that is pushed out that would get accelerated into the year he is either cut or traded.....that's the difference noted above; 40 mil cap hit for keeping him another year, 49 mil for trading him now.

 

DEAD cap hit is a problem because you have to pay somebody to play for the guy who isn't there anymore, depending upon how much you care about your W/L record that year..  

They are already 20+ million OVER the cap right now.   Adding another 9 million doesn't help them

[w87r]

22 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Scratch Ryan from the possible list

 

It looks like things could be slightly easier if it was a post June 1

 

I SURELY hope that we have a QB strategy in place before then.......

 

It REALLY shows how a major contract like this for an aging star can be a HUGE problem to deal with later

 

The Falcons wrote a "buy now" contract at a low up front cost, and are in the pay later side of the contract

 

Sort of like running up a credit card balance with 0% interest, but 21% payoff

 

Bad for personal expenses, bad for NFL teams

 

Have you noticed that CB doesnt sign contracts like this ? (Even the smaller ones he has done so far)

 

 

I'm not vouching for a Ryan, Goff or Wentz deal, but even though those deals couldn't happen till after June 1st for their respective teams to save money this year, it doesn't mean a deal cant be agreed upon before. Teams would know they are getting that QB after June 1st and prepare their offseason accordingly with that in mind.

[DougDew]

Lets try this again, maybe I'm wrong, but this is where the 2021 $50M "dead cap hit" statement I think is coming into play.

 

From NFL.com contract details.

 

In 2021, Ryan will earn a base salary of $23,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $40,912,500 and a dead cap value of $49,937,500.

 

The dead cap is merely accelerating the 9.5M in unamortized signing bonus.  I don't think the $23M of salary gets put onto ATLs cap if Ryan is traded, but only if it is actually paid by ATL.  I think the 2021 salary would come to us if we acquire the contract.

 

So the "dead" cap hit to ATL if the 23m is traded away is only $27mil...which is LESS than the 40 mil cap hit they will have if they keep him/pay him in 2021.  

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, w87r said:

I'm well aware of the cap, thanks.

 

It's $44.4m dead cap if he is traded before/after June 1st(can be divided over 2 yrs if after). Not $49.9m, it is $49.9m dead cap if he was to be released.

 

And you are wrong on the $9m difference as well. Restructure bonus gets pushed out as well as option bonus. It is not the SB for 2022. The $49.9m is just everything tallied up has nothing to do with that $40.9m 2021 cap hit. Except that they still owe more money against the cap(most already paid out) than he makes this year

 

$40,912,500 cap hit + $9.3m roster bonus equals $50,212,000

 

Dead Cap if released:$49,927,500:

$9.3m(SB) × 2 = $18.6m

$2.9m(OB) ×3 = $6m

$6,612,500(ResB) × 3 = $19,837,500

$5.5m 2021 base(guar portion) = $5.5m

 

$5.5m could go to team trading for Ryan, making the dead cap $44,457,500.

 

Fact doesn't change that Ryan just cant rip up his contract and the Falcons not still be responsible for those future cap hits, salary cap wise(that the have already paid out.) Its not poof and that $49m/$44m is gone off their cap.

 

As I mentioned their only option if they are to move on from him would be a post June 1st trade. Saving them $23m in cap this year but putting $26m dead cap onto 2022 cap.

From what I read, both the 2021 hit of $40.9 AND the 49.9m DEAD cap hit has $23m of base salary in it. 

 

IF he was traded and not released, the 2021 salary...next year....that he earned with the other team would be accounted for by the other team, thereby reducing ATLs number from50M to $27M,  The 27 is the signing and restructure bonus acceleration.

 

Is the 23m salary paid/accounted for by ATL. or would it be paid for/accounted for by whomever assumes the contract? 

 

The other nonsense stays with ATL, but that's only $27M, not 50, IMO.

[w87r]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Lets try this again, maybe I'm wrong, but this is where the 2021 $50M "dead cap hit" statement I think is coming into play.

 

From NFL.com contract details.

 

In 2021, Ryan will earn a base salary of $23,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $40,912,500 and a dead cap value of $49,937,500.

 

The dead cap is merely accelerating the 9.5M in unamortized signing bonus.  I don't think the $23M of salary gets put onto ATLs cap if Ryan is traded, but only if it is actually paid by ATL.  I think the 2021 salary would come to us if we acquire the contract.

 

So the "dead" cap hit to ATL if the 23m is traded away is only $27mil...which is LESS than the 40 mil cap hit they will have if they keep him/pay him in 2021.  

You are wrong.

 

Yes his base salary comes to team he is traded to, but that doesn't reduced their dead cap hit, outside of $5.5m)

 

I tallied their dead cap hit above in last response to you, but I will copy and past here as well.

 

Dead Cap if released:$49,927,500:

$9.3m(SB) × 2 = $18.6m

$2.0m(OB) ×3 = $6m

$6,612,500(ResB) × 3 = $19,837,500

$5.5m 2021 base(guar portion) = $5.5m

 

$5.5m could go to team trading for Ryan, making the dead cap $44,457,500

 

 

Regardless what ATL does they will either have a $44.4m dead cap(if traded/can be divided over 2 years if post June 1st), or a $49.9m dead cap hit(if released, not happening).

[MikeCurtis]

9 minutes ago, w87r said:

I'm well aware of the cap, thanks.

 

It's $44.4m dead cap if he is traded before/after June 1st(can be divided over 2 yrs if after). Not $49.9m, it is $49.9m dead cap if he was to be released.

 

And you are wrong on the $9m difference as well. Restructure bonus gets pushed out as well as option bonus. It is not the SB for 2022. The $49.9m is just everything tallied up has nothing to do with that $40.9m 2021 cap hit. Except that they still owe more money against the cap(most already paid out) than he makes this year

 

$40,912,500 cap hit + $9.3m roster bonus equals $50,212,000

 

Dead Cap if released:$49,927,500:

$9.3m(SB) × 2 = $18.6m

$2.9m(OB) ×3 = $6m

$6,612,500(ResB) × 3 = $19,837,500

$5.5m 2021 base(guar portion) = $5.5m

 

$5.5m could go to team trading for Ryan, making the dead cap $44,457,500.

 

Fact doesn't change that Ryan just cant rip up his contract and the Falcons not still be responsible for those future cap hits, salary cap wise(that the have already paid out.) Its not poof and that $49m/$44m is gone off their cap.

 

As I mentioned their only option if they are to move on from him would be a post June 1st trade. Saving them $23m in cap this year but putting $26m dead cap onto 2022 cap.

Thanks for the detail.

 

Just curious, if somehow we were to do a deal after June, would the Colts be on the hook for the dead cap, or would the Falcons?

 

as well, if a post June deal was done, would the Colts be on the hook for only the salary for 2021 and 2022 (and 23)? 

 

Or... would the Colts have to pick up prorated  bonuses ?

 

Too much detail.....  Hurts my head

 

Ryan is a LOOONG shot anyway

 

 

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Lets try this again, maybe I'm wrong, but this is where the 2021 $50M "dead cap hit" statement I think is coming into play.

 

From NFL.com contract details.

 

In 2021, Ryan will earn a base salary of $23,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $40,912,500 and a dead cap value of $49,937,500.

 

The dead cap is merely accelerating the 9.5M in unamortized signing bonus.  I don't think the $23M of salary gets put onto ATLs cap if Ryan is traded, but only if it is actually paid by ATL.  I think the 2021 salary would come to us if we acquire the contract.

 

So the "dead" cap hit to ATL if the 23m is traded away is only $27mil...which is LESS than the 40 mil cap hit they will have if they keep him/pay him in 2021.  

Let's make it easy.   Matt Ryan isn't getting traded before June 1st, if at all.   He won't be a Colt 

[w87r]

7 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Thanks for the detail.

 

Just curious, if somehow we were to do a deal after June, would the Colts be on the hook for the dead cap, or would the Falcons?

 

as well, if a post June deal was done, would the Colts be on the hook for only the salary for 2021 and 2022 (and 23)? 

 

Or... would the Colts have to pick up prorated  bonuses ?

 

Too much detail.....  Hurts my head

 

Ryan is a LOOONG shot anyway

 

 

Colts would only be on the hook for base salary and $5.5m of 2021 base.

 

 

Colts cap hit would be:

2021 - $23m ($5.5m guaranteed, would obviously be paying all of it though if they traded for him)

2022 - $23.75m base + roster bonus

2023 - $28m base + roster bonus

 

2022 and 2023 cap figures would be un guaranteed for us though, unless we reworked his deal to guarantee some.

 

 

Only guaranteed money Falcons can get out of at this point is $5.5m of 2021 base which is guaranteed. All other bonuses(signing, option, restructure) they are on the hook form

 

 

I also think that the Falcons would have to offer us compensation to agree to this deal, because we would be holding off until after June 1st to help them out.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, w87r said:

You are wrong.

 

Yes his base salary comes to team he is traded to, but that doesn't reduced their dead cap hit, outside of $5.5m)

 

I tallied their dead cap hit above in last response to you, but I will copy and past here as well.

 

Dead Cap if released:$49,927,500:

$9.3m(SB) × 2 = $18.6m

$2.9m(OB) ×3 = $6m

$6,612,500(ResB) × 3 = $19,837,500

$5.5m 2021 base(guar portion) = $5.5m

 

$5.5m could go to team trading for Ryan, making the dead cap $44,457,500

 

 

Regardless what ATL does they will either have a $44.4m dead cap(if traded/can be divided over 2 years if post June 1st), or a $49.9m dead cap hit(if released, not happening).

Ok, so Restructure bonuses and Option bonuses work like Signing bonuses.  They are paid regardless.  ( I assume this has been legally vetted on the website)

 

I was reading it like they are labeled.  That the are paid only if the player actually restructures or executes an option.  If he doesn't do either, then he's not paid either, and then they do not count against the cap since nothing was actually paid.

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Let's make it easy.   Matt Ryan isn't getting traded before June 1st, if at all.   He won't be a Colt 

Prolly Right but Wentz seems to have similar issues.........

 

We should have a CAPOLOGIST sticky.....  For all of us that dont have the time to understand it

 

[MikeCurtis]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

Colts would only be on the hook for base salary and $5.5m of 2021 base.

 

 

Colts cap hit would be:

2021 - $23m ($5.5m guaranteed, would obviously be paying all of it though if they traded for him)

2022 - $23.75m base + roster bonus

2023 - $28m base + eoster bonus

 

2022 and 2023 cap figures would be un guaranteed for us though, unless we reworked his deal to guarantee some.

 

 

Only guaranteed money Falcons can get out of at this point is $5.5m of 2021 base which is guaranteed. All other bonuses(signing, option, restructure) they are on the hook form

 

Thank you....  

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, w87r said:

You are wrong.

 

Yes his base salary comes to team he is traded to, but that doesn't reduced their dead cap hit, outside of $5.5m)

 

I tallied their dead cap hit above in last response to you, but I will copy and past here as well.

 

Dead Cap if released:$49,927,500:

$9.3m(SB) × 2 = $18.6m

$2.9m(OB) ×3 = $6m

$6,612,500(ResB) × 3 = $19,837,500

$5.5m 2021 base(guar portion) = $5.5m

 

$5.5m could go to team trading for Ryan, making the dead cap $44,457,500

 

 

Regardless what ATL does they will either have a $44.4m dead cap(if traded/can be divided over 2 years if post June 1st), or a $49.9m dead cap hit(if released, not happening).

Thanks, 87....

 

Its posts like these, and many others, that make me wish this website has what Facebook offers....   a “wow” reaction that we could give to whatever post we thought appropriate.   
 

Yours is one of those posts that is like opening a closet door and EVERYTHING comes tumbling out all at once!   WOW!!   
 

But, thanks!      

[DougDew]

So through all of this, is it fair to say that if ATL keeps Matt Ryan next year he counts about $41m on their cap? And if they trade him before next season, he counts about $45m on the same cap?

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ok, so Restructure bonuses and Option bonuses work like Signing bonuses.  They are paid regardless.  ( I assume this has been legally vetted on the website)

 

I was reading it like they are labeled.  That the are paid only if the player actually restructures or executes an option.  If he doesn't do either, then he's not paid either, and then they do not count against the cap since nothing was actually paid.

 

 

Restructure vonus is essentially the same thing as a Signing bonus, when they restructure the contract that money is given up front and spread over the contract as well.

 

 

The option bonus(is is not a Roster bonus or certain performance bonus) is a little tricky, if it is guaranteed at signing, which in this case and Wentz case it was the team that guaranteed the money is on the hook for it.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/carson-wentz-contract-eagles-breakdown/udtio5egfgr1cwvv2bxch107

 

 

I think this article sums it up. I will check and make sure it is the right one when I get back. Have to run and do something real quick.

[DougDew]

Ok, so if ATL keep Ryan its 41, if they trade him its 45.

 

I guess they have two options:

 

In this March/April/June, accept Tyquan Lewis, Khari Willis, and a conditional 3rd round 2021 pick in a trade with the Colts.  Draft Fields and "pay" Ryan 45m to leave.

 

Or keep Ryan and pay him 41m to stay, Keep Fields on the bench, and simply cut Ryan next April/May/or June and get nothing, or try to trade him when he's 37. 

 

As I was saying, I'm not sure how the 50m dead cap hit statement is really relevant.

 

Unless ATL simply can't find the cap space to take on Lewis and Willis cheap contracts and the extra 4m for trading Ryan.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Seems it’s down go SF, colts, WA. Also appears SF will not add that 12th pick. Let me go get some tweets.