Matthew Stafford (merge)

[w87r]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

This makes it sound like the Colts didn't even inquire....

 

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Broncos, Panthers, Bears, 49ers and Patriots all "inquired" about new Rams QB Matthew Stafford before his trade from the Lions. 

Per Rapsheet, the Broncos, Panthers and Bears all offered "more than a first-rounder." It is just the latest indication that it's going to be a wild west offseason for quarterbacks. Stafford's deal was complex because it required the Lions taking on Jared Goff's bad contract, but if Stafford is drawing this kind of interest and trade compensation, one can only imagine what Deshaun Watson might fetch.

Then there's reports like this:

 

 Who knows what to believe anymore.

 

Im sure we were in.

[Fluke_33]

Wasn’t there talk that reich wanted nick foles if he couldn’t get rivers last year.  Maybe he’s going to try to get him from the bears now. 

[Dasteez]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

Wasn’t there talk that reich wanted nick foles if he couldn’t get rivers last year.  Maybe he’s going to try to get him from the bears now. 

I think we all collectively hope not. 

[danlhart87]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

Then there's reports like this:

 

 Who knows what to believe anymore.

 

Im sure we were in.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Then there's reports like this:

 

 Who knows what to believe anymore.

 

Im sure we were in.

[CR91]

 

[TomDiggs]

46 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

 

I do find it fascinating that we would offer a 1.13 pick for a DT but not 1.21 for a QB....I loved loved loved the Buckner trade and love it more after last year. But I figured we would have known we had to give the 1.21 and then some for Stafford. Seems like we were hoping for a bargain that was never going to pass with how much interest there was. Also shows we probably "liked" Stafford but did not "love" him like we did with Buckner. I am OK with that. Especially since we were never going to meet the price that evolved.

 

I did find the Rams' view to be intriguing too....they figured their 2022 and 2023 picks are going to be at least in the mid 20s...so they figured two picks around 1.26 at 700 pts apiece equaled that 1.08 pick of Carolina. Then they sweetened it with their earliest pick they could give this year w the 3rd rounder.

 

Also sounds like Goff was not a "dump" for the Lions and Holmes. They actually saw value in him and wanted him. He "added" to the deal instead of being a subtraction that they got compensated for.

 

It only takes one.

 

I personally would have taken the Carolina offer. And if Washington was offering 1.19 and a 3rd then they also would have beaten us out.

 

So it is good to know we weren't really close and didn't juuuuust miss out.

 

 

 

 

[Nickster]

On 1/30/2021 at 10:54 PM, lennymoore24 said:

Uggh, that really hurt.  Happy for the Rams as they are one of my brothers favorite teams.  I really was counting on Stafford being here.  So what is Plan B?  Well, I think one thing we know is that unless the Colts could trade for the #1 pick and get Lawrence, there isnt' another QB in this draft the Colts would just start as a rookie.  IMHO, the only two QBs worth even drafting in the 1st are Lawrence and Wilson.  I think Lance and Fields will be busts.

 

So what about veterans?  At this point, I think the best we could do now is trade for Sam Darnold if the Jets are expecting to draft a QB.  He hasn't been great but he has upside.   There is now way we can get Watson.  Other than that, I guess bring in Nick Foles along with a high draft pick and Eason to compete.  Other than that, I think we are pretty much screwed. I think unless a miracle happens, we are likely looking at Jacoby Brissett again, which means another lost season.  If that is the case, I would actually rather the Colts since Nick Foles and just roll the dice wish Eason to see if he really is comparable to Justin Herbert as was reported by some sites.  He can't be worse than Brissett.

 

Oh, please Andrew Luck, if you ever wanted to come back to a team ready to win now, it is NOW!!!

Plleeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaassssseeeeeee!

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

 

I do find it fascinating that we would offer a 1.13 pick for a DT but not 1.21 for a QB....I loved loved loved the Buckner trade and love it more after last year. But I figured we would have known we had to give the 1.21 and then some for Stafford. Seems like we were hoping for a bargain that was never going to pass with how much interest there was. Also shows we probably "liked" Stafford but did not "love" him like we did with Buckner. I am OK with that. Especially since we were never going to meet the price that evolved.

 

I did find the Rams' view to be intriguing too....they figured their 2022 and 2023 picks are going to be at least in the mid 20s...so they figured two picks around 1.26 at 700 pts apiece equaled that 1.08 pick of Carolina. Then they sweetened it with their earliest pick they could give this year w the 3rd rounder.

 

Also sounds like Goff was not a "dump" for the Lions and Holmes. They actually saw value in him and wanted him. He "added" to the deal instead of being a subtraction that they got compensated for.

 

It only takes one.

 

I personally would have taken the Carolina offer. And if Washington was offering 1.19 and a 3rd then they also would have beaten us out.

 

So it is good to know we weren't really close and didn't juuuuust miss out.

 

 

 

 

More interesting  is if panthers, washington, Patriots, denver,  and 49ers looking  for qb help. What will colts do to get one

[w87r]

4 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

I do find it fascinating that we would offer a 1.13 pick for a DT but not 1.21 for a QB

I took the tweet as the Colts offered #21 plus additional picks and that they didn't offer players in the deal.

[Indeee]

11 hours ago, w87r said:

Then there's reports like this:

 

 Who knows what to believe anymore.

 

Im sure we were in.

This is a direct excerpt from Albert Breers column on the lions/Rams trade

 

The Colts discussed packages of picks and players, but never actually wound up offering their first-rounder, the 21st pick.

2 hours ago, w87r said:

I took the tweet as the Colts offered #21 plus additional picks and that they didn't offer players in the deal.

 

This is a direct excerpt from Albert Breers column on the lions/Rams trade

 

The Colts discussed packages of picks and players, but never actually wound up offering their first-rounder, the 21st pick.

[Archer]

17 hours ago, poilucelt said:

drafting Trask a year after Eason makes no sense to me--if anything, I'd wait longer and draft Newman before I'd draft Trask

I don’t know - it’s hard to predict which QB Ballard and Reich would prefer from this draft class, but I think Trask seems like their kind of guy.  Sat as a backup throughout HS, without seeking a way to play for a different school.  Then, instead of going to DII to get on the field, he somehow swung a scholarship at Fla.  Then, he sat as a backup for 3+ years, but when he got his shot, he was ready.  Ended up a Heisman finalist.  The kid continually bet on himself and showed the desire to play at the highest level.  Contrast that with Newman, who decided sit out the year after transferring up to Georgia as a Graduate...

[danlhart87]

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/01/indianapolis-colts-matthew-stafford-offers-conflicting/

[Indeee]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/01/indianapolis-colts-matthew-stafford-offers-conflicting/

Call me dumb but again I'm not seeing the dots connected to Colts being trade partners with Lions just because Lions didn't accept Panthers #8 overall pick. Now it might be the Colts see that they will have to get ahead of Panthers if they want to trade up for QB but outside of that, that assertion means nothing and I believe it's going to steer Colts fans in wrong direction.

 

Long way to go, but I don't see Colts trading up....

[danlhart87]

Just now, Indeee said:

Call me dumb but again I'm not seeing the dots connected to Colts being trade partners with Lions just because Lions didn't accept Panthers #8 overall pick. Now it might be the Colts see that they will have to get ahead of Panthers if they want to trade up for QB but outside of that, that assertion means nothing and I believe it's going to steer Colts fans in wrong direction.

 

Long way to go, but I don't see Colts trading up....

I don't either!

 

I'm glad Ballard sticks with his set offer and doesn't sway away from that.

 

I like Stafford but there is no way he's worth 2 1st rounders let alone 1.

 

I 

[MikeCurtis]

17 hours ago, poilucelt said:

Wentz IS a veteran QB as much or more than a "younger" one--he'll turn 29 before the 2021 season is over

 

personally, given his current level of play, I'm not giving up 2 1st rounders for him--and I would want more than 3rd rounders if I'm taking over that ungodly contract

I would agree with this 

 

Trading to take cap hits adds a significant  complexity to this arena.

 

IF Wentz is truly on the Colts radar (Nobody knows)

 

 I think that you have to start with, with no cap factors, what is Wentz worth?

 

To me, after a horrid year, that he was benched, and with his injury history, he isnt worth 2 firsts

 

A late first?  Maybe.  

 

Then, I would look at the cap situation

 

A case could be made for giving up our first, but asking for their 2nd and 4th, this year to take him pre June 1 (And eat their cap)

 

CB has proven he can pick well with 2nds, 3rds, and 4ths

 

I have seen some posters saying we should give two ones and get the Eagles early pick.  

 

If you are going to trade THAT pick for more picks, ok... but moving up that high means we want a QB

 

Again.... a big IF

 

Who knows, what is in CBs head?

 

 

My gut says Wentz is an Eagle next year

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TomDiggs]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I would agree with this 

 

Trading to take cap hits adds a significant  complexity to this arena.

 

IF Wentz is truly on the Colts radar (Nobody knows)

 

 I think that you have to start with, with no cap factors, what is Wentz worth?

 

To me, after a horrid year, that he was benched, and with his injury history, he isnt worth 2 firsts

 

A late first?  Maybe.  

 

Then, I would look at the cap situation

 

A case could be made for giving up our first, but asking for their 2nd and 4th, this year to take him pre June 1 (And eat their cap)

 

CB has proven he can pick well with 2nds, 3rds, and 4ths

 

I have seen some posters saying we should give two ones and get the Eagles early pick.  

 

If you are going to trade THAT pick for more picks, ok... but moving up that high means we want a QB

 

Again.... a big IF

 

Who knows, what is in CBs head?

 

 

My gut says Wentz is an Eagle next year

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I won't touch the idea of Wentz and if last year was a blip on the map or if he is truly damaged goods now. Because I truly do not know. That oline in Philly was destroyed by injuries and maybe Wentz can be saved. Maybe not.

 

However, his contract is terrible for the Eagles but it is not not not that bad for any team acquiring him if you believe he is a top-10 caliber QB. That is a big IF. But still.

 

If the Eagles trade him they take on a massive $33.8M in dead cap money this year and that is if they trade him before March 19th when his $10M roster bonus is due.

 

Let's assume that is the case and assume the Colts did trade for him.

 

His contract for us would look like the following (reference- https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2021/1/4/22211517/philadelphia-eagles-trade-carson-wentz-restructure-contract-chris-mortenson-rumors-quarterback-colts)

 

 

So basically it would be a 4 year, $98.4M deal at just under $25M a year. No guaranteed money after 2022 either. So it is a 2 year, $47.5M deal with basically the option of 2 years at $25M or so a year after that on a year to year basis. That is basically right around what it would have cost for Stafford and a little less than Goff or so in terms of the next two years.

 

If he is a top-10 to top-12 option that is entirely within market.

 

Now, would I want to give up a lot of draft capital to find out if he was damaged goods or not and pay almost $50M to find out? Not sure that I would.

 

But the deal itself if we acquire him is not terrible.

 

[stitches]

Interesting: 

 

What other package could we offer? And if we are not offering 21... ? Could it mean we actually like someone in this draft? 

 

[Archer]

One interesting thought - if we didn’t offer our #21 pick, does that mean we covet someone in the 1st (unlike last year)?  Maybe an OT (like Cosmi) or even a QB for the future (like Trask or Mac Jones)...

[jbaron04]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:33 PM, GoColts8818 said:

There is only so much coaching can do.  Winston strikes me as a guy who has gotten by on his talent but doesn’t really put in the work required.

Well he did take less money and signed for 1M to learn from drew Brees and Payton as he claimed. I’m thinking we can make him tannehil type he has talent , and all that but for 5m I would be willing to take the risk of Eason isn’t ready or we don’t have anyone fall to us in draft. After seeing what Matt stafford when for its no way we can trade for QB , 

[jbaron04]

2 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

 

I won't touch the idea of Wentz and if last year was a blip on the map or if he is truly damaged goods now. Because I truly do not know. That oline in Philly was destroyed by injuries and maybe Wentz can be saved. Maybe not.

 

However, his contract is terrible for the Eagles but it is not not not that bad for any team acquiring him if you believe he is a top-10 caliber QB. That is a big IF. But still.

 

If the Eagles trade him they take on a massive $33.8M in dead cap money this year and that is if they trade him before March 19th when his $10M roster bonus is due.

 

Let's assume that is the case and assume the Colts did trade for him.

 

His contract for us would look like the following (reference- https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2021/1/4/22211517/philadelphia-eagles-trade-carson-wentz-restructure-contract-chris-mortenson-rumors-quarterback-colts)

 

 

So basically it would be a 4 year, $98.4M deal at just under $25M a year. No guaranteed money after 2022 either. So it is a 2 year, $47.5M deal with basically the option of 2 years at $25M or so a year after that on a year to year basis. That is basically right around what it would have cost for Stafford and a little less than Goff or so in terms of the next two years.

 

If he is a top-10 to top-12 option that is entirely within market.

 

Now, would I want to give up a lot of draft capital to find out if he was damaged goods or not and pay almost $50M to find out? Not sure that I would.

 

But the deal itself if we acquire him is not terrible.

 

Wentz is a no go , when so many guys come out and talk about his character and all that I don’t even want to entertain this idea not to even mention the contract and what it would take to get him. I would rather take a chance on someone like darnold if he became available, or go the place holder route with someone like Winston or if Ryan or a vet gets cut or becomes available cheap after draft

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

One interesting thought - if we didn’t offer our #21 pick, does that mean we covet someone in the 1st (unlike last year)?  Maybe an OT (like Cosmi) or even a QB for the future (like Trask or Mac Jones)...

If we didn't offer our 21st pick that means we were offering players besides picks.  Good players one could assume.  I guess no one is truly safe on our current roster. 

[chickenMan]

23 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This very well could get us close enough for Lance.  The only issue the colts have is they might have to throw something extra in because the team would be dropping to 21. That would come into play especially if another QB hungry team ahead of us say in the teens wants to trade up.

There are only two spots in the top ten without QB needs if we assume the Lions want to stick with Goff, with those being the Bengals at 5 and Lions at 7. If we were to trade up to 7 with the Lions, anyone desperate to pass us would have to fork over an absurd amount to move to 5. And I doubt the Bengals will move, they have many positions of need

[chickenMan]

1 hour ago, jbaron04 said:

Wentz is a no go , when so many guys come out and talk about his character and all that I don’t even want to entertain this idea not to even mention the contract and what it would take to get him. I would rather take a chance on someone like darnold if he became available, or go the place holder route with someone like Winston or if Ryan or a vet gets cut or becomes available cheap after draft

Honestly I doubt Wentz will leave Philly. I’d be willing to try Darnold for a low price. Winston is interesting, but I honestly think he could flip either way in skill, which is extremely risky.

[Superman]

He would have been good for the Colts...

 

 

[poilucelt]

5 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

 

I won't touch the idea of Wentz and if last year was a blip on the map or if he is truly damaged goods now. Because I truly do not know. That oline in Philly was destroyed by injuries and maybe Wentz can be saved. Maybe not.

 

However, his contract is terrible for the Eagles but it is not not not that bad for any team acquiring him if you believe he is a top-10 caliber QB. That is a big IF. But still.

 

If the Eagles trade him they take on a massive $33.8M in dead cap money this year and that is if they trade him before March 19th when his $10M roster bonus is due.

 

Let's assume that is the case and assume the Colts did trade for him.

 

His contract for us would look like the following (reference- https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2021/1/4/22211517/philadelphia-eagles-trade-carson-wentz-restructure-contract-chris-mortenson-rumors-quarterback-colts)

 

 

So basically it would be a 4 year, $98.4M deal at just under $25M a year. No guaranteed money after 2022 either. So it is a 2 year, $47.5M deal with basically the option of 2 years at $25M or so a year after that on a year to year basis. That is basically right around what it would have cost for Stafford and a little less than Goff or so in terms of the next two years.

 

If he is a top-10 to top-12 option that is entirely within market.

 

Now, would I want to give up a lot of draft capital to find out if he was damaged goods or not and pay almost $50M to find out? Not sure that I would.

 

But the deal itself if we acquire him is not terrible.

 

at this point I'm less concerned about Wentz's play in 2020 than the rumors (if they are true) about his attitude and current level of coachability--if the Colture guys are right, it sounds like Reich may share that concern

[poilucelt]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

If we didn't offer our 21st pick that means we were offering players besides picks.  Good players one could assume.  I guess no one is truly safe on our current roster. 

it's not clear to me which players (other than ones I assume Ballard would not give up in any trade) have very much market value right now--Okereke maybe, who else? I don't think some of the guys Ballard used 2nd round picks on are all that highly coveted by other GMs at this point

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, poilucelt said:

it's not clear to me which players (other than ones I assume Ballard would not give up in any trade) have very much market value right now--Okereke maybe, who else? I don't think some of the guys Ballard used 2nd round picks on are all that highly coveted by other GMs at this point

I was always taught never assume anything.  A trade like this would require making sacrifices if you want Watson.  Leonard was a 2nd rd. I believe.  He would definitely be included.  Okereke doesn't move the needle.  You want a difference maker.  Prepare to lose legitimate talent to get the player.  

[ojsglove]

WHY NOT STOP THIS YEARLY OFF SEASON CRAP AND PLAY WITH WHAT WE GOT???  We have as good a team as any in the NFL.  We have quality players that need, and deserve to be payed.  We payed JB 20 million last year to hold a clip board and pickup a couple 1st downs, and be a locker room cheerleader.  Why not give Eason a chance?  Bring in Fitz to mentor him and backup if needed.  ANDREW IS NOT COMING BACK.

[EastStreet]

On 1/31/2021 at 2:28 PM, poilucelt said:

I assume the impetus for this from the Lions' side is new GM who IIRC came over from the Rams.

 

to me the more interesting perspective is from the Rams' side--I'm not sure people saying the Rams gave up too much in the trade fully appreciate how much pressure Snead, and to a lesser extent McVay, are under, especially in comparison to a more stable situation like that of, say, Ballard and Reich.

 

if I'm Snead the last thing I'm worried about right now is holding onto future draft picks, particularly a 1st in 2023--if Stafford doesn't give the team an immediate shot in the arm in 2021 and 2022, I won't be around in 2023 anyway and it'll be the next GM's problem to fix.

 

Do I think Ballard should've given up a similar amount for Stafford? No, but I can see why Snead did. Now it's up to Ballard to produce a plausible, less expensive alternative.

I agree with most of this. I understand Snead's gamble to an extent. He's not going to be there if he doesn't do something, and he's not going to be there if the gamble doesn't pay off, but he won't have to worry about the mess left behind either lol....

 

I wonder how supportive ownership was to both Goff's big contract, and this move.